Isn't now the time for US to stop supporting Ukraine to end the conflict?

[wwef235]

The war in Ukraine has begun three years ago, and we have been sending Ukrainians all the necessary support ever since. But the war is not over. Now it's become a slaughter where people from different countries get killed. With that, Ukraine goes on losing it's territory. I think, given the circumstances, the US has to admit that this conflict doesn't bring us any significant benefits and leads to a waste of it's weapons.

I've just watched an interview with prof. Mearsheimer who studies international relations. Having no illusions, he explained in detail why there's only one way Ukraine can end this conflict – by becoming a neutral state and refusing the idea of joining NATO. Moreover, according to him, it's neutrality must be permanent. If it doesn't happen, the war won't end, and the West's shipment of arms only encourages this scenario. I actually agree with Mearsheimer because we can supply our weaponry to Ukraine but it surely doesn't end the conflict. The only option for the US is to stop supplying the arms and steer Ukraine towards a diplomatic solution.

Also, the US is said to have something to lose, which is not true. The American Conversative (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/?p=467849) did research on the subject. First, the shipment of arms to Ukraine earns the US nothing wasting it's resources. Second, helping Taiwan now is a priority as it has many semiconductor and IC plants. If China takes over Taiwan, the US economy, unlike Ukraine's, will suffer huge losses. Third, Ukraine's neutrality doesn't mean it's lack of independence. For example, Finland once became neutral and now is a rich and developed state. Fourth, it doesn't change the US security as we are separated from Russia by an ocean and multiple allies.

We have to think what we really want for Ukraine: endless massacre or peace? If we are to really help them, then we must encourage it's peace negotiations with Russia and use our leverage to reach a better agreement.

[robosmith]

^Post has the stench of a Russian propagandist spreading disinformation to help his war effort and steal Ukrainian resources.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Post has the stench

How so?

How is this conflict good for the US?

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Perspektiv said:

How is this conflict good for the US?

It depletes their historically biggest enemy?

[robosmith]

12 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

How so?

New poster trying persuade US citizens to quit the war.

12 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

How is this conflict good for the US?

No conflict is "good." 

The test is whether it is better than surrender to Putin's AGGRESSION.

If for no other reason than it gives a green light to other authoritarians like Xi in Taiwan.

However there are plenty of other reasons. We have spent ~5% of our military budget to destroy 50% of Putin's military with no loss of US lives. That is a good investment.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

It depletes their historically biggest enemy?

This is the argument, and it does have a fair bit of validity. For many many years america had to be very careful about what it did in other countries because they could move into the Russian sphere of influence and gain weaponry and technology and oppose America. This is especially true in the middle east.

To combat this america frequently gave weapons and money and other supports to countries they would really rather not have in order to make Russia less attractive. Iran comes to mind. There are f-15s sitting on Iranian airfields to this very day.

With Russia completely depleted as it is and barely Able to replenish its own stocks, It is unable to affect world politics nearly as much. The conflict with Israel right now might be a very different situation if Russia was in a position to supply large number of modern tanks to Lebanon or Syria or Iran

20 some odd billion a year to keep russia toothless might well be seen by many as being cheap, especially when most of that money is spent in the US which will improve it's own weapon systems and supply capabilities as a result. 

It's probably cheaper than fighting a real war

[Guest]

6 hours ago, robosmith said:

New poster trying persuade US citizens to quit the war.

Many US citizens would want the war to end. Many Ukrainians, too.

6 hours ago, robosmith said:

The test is whether it is better than surrender to Putin's AGGRESSION.

All wars have limits. Once you're deep into the trillions of dollars, am quite sure the public opinion will dramatically change.

6 hours ago, robosmith said:

However there are plenty of other reasons. We have spent ~5% of our military budget to destroy 50% of Putin's military with no loss of US lives. That is a good investment.

How much of Ukraine's military was lost? 

[Nationalist]

7 hours ago, robosmith said:

^Post has the stench of a Russian propagandist spreading disinformation to help his war effort and steal Ukrainian resources.

Lol...

[robosmith]

53 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...

^M0r0nic bankruptcy, AGAIN

[robosmith]

58 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Many US citizens would want the war to end. Many Ukrainians, too.

Really? Sure, surrender is easy, but that doesn't mean they will like the results.

58 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

All wars have limits. Once you're deep into the trillions of dollars, am quite sure the public opinion will dramatically change.

Well as long as you're "quite sure".... LMAO

We aren't CLOSE to "trillions of dollars." And Russia will be bankrupt before we (entire EU plus Canada) are....

58 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

How much of Ukraine's military was lost? 

Not enough to keep the US from replacing it.

[BeaverFever]

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

How so?

How is this conflict good for the US?

It’s always a red flag when a newbie shows up and within minutes of creating their account is creating new threads with long diatribes that support the Russian agenda. 

His long post was posted 6 minutes after his account was created, that seems a little fast given its length. Probably a pre-written copy-paste you can find on other forums. 

Edited June 6, 2024 by BeaverFever

[robosmith]

1 minute ago, BeaverFever said:

It’s always a red flag when a newbie shows up and within minutes of creating their account is creating new threads with long diatribes that support Russian interests. 

The definition of a sole interest poster, though one might expect that a professional troll would not be so OBVIOUS.

Maybe just a crude BOT. LMAO

[BeaverFever]

Also notice how the cartoon in the OP doesn’t portray Russia…just Ukraine boiling in some undescribed “crisis”. LMAO

The only villain in the cartoon is the US. 

Just another Russian troll farm operation. 

[myata]

Russia is active these days everywhere in the free world. It's heading into a dead wall with its brutal aggression that violated and violates daily all established laws and principles. Obviously it will use propaganda to advance its agenda.

Yes there should be peace and this is how it can be achieved: Russia gets out of Ukraine asap and pays for all the damages it caused. Better still, stripped of the nukes which she has no business of possessing, having committed acts nothing short of Nazi Germany last century.

[WestCanMan]

The talk about the Ukraine war is dwindling away all the time. The media focus is being taken off of it, and eventually people will accept it like it is. 

If Trump wins that war will end promptly, so Biden might try to pre-emptively do it himself, just to prevent Trump from having that opportunity. 

[Deluge]

20 hours ago, robosmith said:

^Post has the stench of a Russian propagandist spreading disinformation to help his war effort and steal Ukrainian resources.

As opposed to the stink of undying Ukrainian support? How much more tax money do you war mongers want to throw at those degenerates? 

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, Deluge said:

How much more tax money do you war mongers want to throw at those degenerates? 

People who defend their country from invasion=War Mongers 

🤔

[Aristides]

28 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The talk about the Ukraine war is dwindling away all the time. The media focus is being taken off of it, and eventually people will accept it like it is. 

If Trump wins that war will end promptly, so Biden might try to pre-emptively do it himself, just to prevent Trump from having that opportunity. 

Trump will hand Ukraine to Putin because Vlad owns him.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, robosmith said:

Sure, surrender is easy

Surrender is incredibly difficult. You stand to lose face, and part of your land. But it is also understanding that a country can only lose so much, and Putin isn't going anywhere nor will he retreat. Ukraine has shown they can only hold ground and Russia has strategically taken more land and surprised many with how well they have held it.

12 hours ago, robosmith said:

Russia will be bankrupt before we

I don't see how this war continues if the US elects a Republican nominee.

12 hours ago, robosmith said:

Not enough to keep the US from replacing it.

How many Ukrainian soldiers were lost?

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

His long post was posted 6 minutes after his account was created, that seems a little fast given its length. Probably a pre-written copy-paste you can find on other forums. 

No problem, but still doesn't address what was said, regardless of how sketchy the optics are.

[Deluge]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

People who defend their country from invasion=War Mongers 

🤔

You've got it all wrong, Mike. 

Here, let's go through it and find out who the REAL villains are.  

From Conservapedia: 

"The Russia-Ukraine War was a proxy war started by the United States in 2014 with the violent overthrow of the democratically elected government of Ukraine^[5] with the aid of neo-Nazi forces.^[6]

There are multiple issues that led to the Russian incursion into Ukraine in February 2022:^[7]

• ethnic cleansing of native Russians in the Donbas region and unrelenting shelling of civilian communities by the Maidan regime since 2014;
• defending the Russian homeland against NATO aggression;
• the Kyiv regime's discrimination against Russian speaking people and making them second-class citizens in the country of their birth;
• collective security between the Donbas Republics and the Russian Federation under Article 51 of the UN Charter;
• the 2014 NATO overthrow of the democratically elected government;
• the murder of at least one hundred protesters by U.S.-backed neo-Nazis during the Maidan coup;
• the burning alive of at least 48 anti-Maidan protesters in the Odessa Trade Unions House massacre and subsequent cover up by the U.S.-backed Maidan regime;
• existence of the Maidan regime's Myrotvorets kill list public website of "enemies of Ukraine;
• the United States and NATO's violation of the Naval and Ground Warfare Hague Conventions;
• NATO's desire to dismember the Russian Federation in order to seize its oil and gas reserves using Ukrainian troops as cannon fodder;
• continued efforts by the CIA to subvert and overthrow the legitimate governments of Belarus and Russia;
• NATO infiltration into Ukraine and supplying weapons and training to neo-Nazi groups;
• NATO's violation of the Joint Allied Ceasefire Declaration of May 1945 ending World War II which declared membership in a Nazi organization a crime;
• NATO-Ukraine's destruction of monuments to soldiers who defeated Adolf Hitler, Nazi Germany, and fascism and liberated the territories of Ukraine;
• efforts to dispose of old Soviet-era weapons stockpiles among former Warsaw Pact members and upgrade them with modern standard NATO equipment;
• the presence of 46 U.S. biological laboratories doing research with dangerous pathogens on the territory of Ukraine near the Russian border;
• the transformation of Ukraine into a testing ground for pharmaceutical experiments by Big Pharma in circumvention of international safety standards and to by-pass regulations, informed consent, and disclosure laws in Western countries;^[8]
• to turn Ukraine into a testing ground for the newest NATO weapons;^[9]
• Burisma oil and gas holdings in the Donets Basin;
• efforts by the United States to scuttle Germany and other NATO allies dependency on Russian gas, kill the Nord Stream 2 pipeline trade agreement, and force NATO allies to purchase US liquified natural gas (LGN) for home heating and cooking at higher prices;
• competition between the European Union and the Eurasian Economic Union over the boundaries of their respective trade zones, playing a central role in the illegal Maidan coup;
• violation of the assurances given by NATO not to expand eastward beyond the Oder–Neisse line which in exchange Soviet leaders consented to the re-unification of Germany;
• so the United States can place nuclear missiles on the Ukrainian border only 5 minutes from Moscow to blackmail Russia into being subservient to Washington;
• the U.S. withdrawal from the INF Treaty;
• the petrodollar system, which Russia has the potential to compete with and disrupt;
• religious sectarian rivalry between orthodox churches claiming to be the legitimate Orthodox Church of the Ukrainian people,^[10][11] which has led to violations of religious liberty by the Kyiv regime per the UN Human Rights Commission;^[12]
• the Culture War as Leftists in the West attempt to extend their agenda into Ukraine with gay pride marches to challenge the conservative values of both Ukrainians and Russians.^[13]". 

 

 

[Deluge]

23 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Trump will hand Ukraine to Putin because Vlad owns him.

And in about 8 years, the entire planet will suffer through some obscure catastrophe due to man-made climate change. 

[Michael Hardner]

@Deluge I read the first and last points...

US started the war... 

Gay Pride parades also to blame...

Carry on without me. 🤔

[Nationalist]

12 hours ago, robosmith said:

Maybe just a crude BOT

says robo-bot...

[WestCanMan]

38 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Trump will hand Ukraine to Putin because Vlad owns him.

You're such a cultist loser it's embarrassing.

All Trump did for 4 years was advance American causes, and you're still stuck regurgitating FBI propaganda like a Hitler Youth commando. 

[Deluge]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Carry on without me. 🤔

As expected.