Nearly half of Canadians are opposed to university protest encampments, poll suggests

[Perspektiv]

On 5/9/2024 at 11:36 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

am surprised this is only 48%. I thought overwhelming opposition to university protest encampments

Most like myself, just don't care. They are on university property. 

They could self immolate there for all I care.

I think most Canadians would start to care about this, if it directly affected them.

IE a la Just Stop Oil tactics.

You would see that number sharply increase, as now people have a target to hate.

As it is now, out of sight, out of mind.

Universities should grow a spine rather than appease these people. They chose the latter, then deal with it long term.

[Perspektiv]

On 5/9/2024 at 12:21 PM, Black Dog said:

says protesters are uneducated

More like, if you interviewed many, I would he willing to be a lot of money most don't have any depth of understanding of the conflict in Israel and Gaza.

Where were the protests to free hostages?

Education isn't about schooling alone.

It certainly doesn't make one impervious of acts that fall well below what should be their IQ level based on their scholastic achievements. 

Demanding Israel to pull out, without equating the pressure on Hamas to release hostages, is to me, pointing to a lack of education.

The latter clearly would end the conflict in 24 hours (as Israel no longer would have a motive that would stand), but their continuing to hold hostages to try to get BS concessions point to their lack of regard for their own people being slaughtered.

On 5/9/2024 at 12:21 PM, Black Dog said:

doesn't understand what "solidarity" means.

You don't understand what blindly following means.

You can't denounce one, and expunge the other.

That just continues the cycle of violence into perpetuity.

You can't possibly be questioning my education level. O_O

[Black Dog]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:47 AM, Perspektiv said:

More like, if you interviewed many, I would he willing to be a lot of money most don't have any depth of understanding of the conflict in Israel and Gaza.

Where were the protests to free hostages?

Education isn't about schooling alone.

It certainly doesn't make one impervious of acts that fall well below what should be their IQ level based on their scholastic achievements. 

Again, you're saying the students don't understand the conflict while showing your own ignorance of what they're protesting.

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Demanding Israel to pull out, without equating the pressure on Hamas to release hostages, is to me, pointing to a lack of education.

 

I think the students understand that they have no leverage to influence Hamas, whereas they can influence their institutions to divest from Israel even if you do not.

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The latter clearly would end the conflict in 24 hours (as Israel no longer would have a motive that would stand), but their continuing to hold hostages to try to get BS concessions point to their lack of regard for their own people being slaughtered.

LOL at the idea that Israel would stop the killing if the hostages were released.

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You don't understand what blindly following means.

You can't denounce one, and expunge the other.

That just continues the cycle of violence into perpetuity.

You can't possibly be questioning my education level. O_O

 

Whatever your formal education, you're clearly not informed about these protests.

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

Again, you're saying the students don't understand the conflict while showing your own ignorance of what they're protesting.

I think the students understand that they have no leverage to influence Hamas, whereas they can influence their institutions to divest from Israel even if you do not.

LOL at the idea that Israel would stop the killing if the hostages were released.

Whatever your formal education, you're clearly not informed about these protests.

But they do have the ability to influence hamas. 

If they were out there demanding that our gov't invest more in israel and provide weapons to help wipe out hamas,  if our gov't was pressured into speaking out against hamas and gaza, if hamas saw world opinion turning against them, it would ABSOLUTELY influence their decisions. 

More importantly it would send a message to iran who is the source of their backing that the world is getting fed up of their crap and the actions of their proxies and they may face further blowback if they're not careful. 

 

So - your entire argument is based on a lie.  The protesters know that they can pressure our gov't to exert influence ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. 

They CHOOSE to support the violent terrorist in hamas.  Of course, in fairness not many of them are students. 

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Again, you're saying the students don't understand the conflict

Am saying a high volume of them, do not. Based on who I saw get interviewed.

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

think the students understand that they have no leverage to influence Hamas

There should still be condemnation. Even if they are a lost cause.

Silence is otherwise acceptance, of "its just what they do". 

3 hours ago, Black Dog said:

at the idea that Israel would stop the killing if the hostages were released.

There would be far more international pressure to stop. It no longer is justified.

One are a group of animals. The other are still bound by international laws.

4 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Whatever your formal education

I don't need education to see what they are doing is futile.

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

They CHOOSE to support the violent terrorist

Exactly.

[Black Dog]

18 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Am saying a high volume of them, do not. Based on who I saw get interviewed.

You're basing your belief that a "high volume" of protesters don't know what they're protesting based on a small cherrypicked sample of ones you've seen interviewed? You don't see the problem here?

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There should still be condemnation. Even if they are a lost cause.

Silence is otherwise acceptance, of "its just what they do". 

In other words, you want more empty virtue signalling.

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There would be far more international pressure to stop. It no longer is justified.

Israel has shown it does not care about international pressure. The only thing that would actually make them stop is if the US turned off the tap, but that won't happen.

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One are a group of animals. The other are still bound by international laws.

Israel has shown it does not care about international laws.

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I don't need education to see what they are doing is futile.

The efficacy of the protests wasn't the question.

[Black Dog]

22 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But they do have the ability to influence hamas. 

If they were out there demanding that our gov't invest more in israel and provide weapons to help wipe out hamas,  if our gov't was pressured into speaking out against hamas and gaza, if hamas saw world opinion turning against them, it would ABSOLUTELY influence their decisions. 

legit one of the dumbest things you've ever said and that's an extremely competitive category. 

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More importantly it would send a message to iran who is the source of their backing that the world is getting fed up of their crap and the actions of their proxies and they may face further blowback if they're not careful. 

The problem with this is when you're dealing with a state that is already an international pariah there's not very many levers you can work to influence them. Sanctions? The U.S. has had Iran under sanctions for almost 50 years. Military action? You think anyone wants to start a full blown regional war over a few dozen kibbutzim?

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So - your entire argument is based on a lie.  The protesters know that they can pressure our gov't to exert influence ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. 

They CHOOSE to support the violent terrorist in hamas.  Of course, in fairness not many of them are students. 

The protesters aren't trying to pressure the government, they're pressuring their institutions. Again, you obviously have no idea what these protests are about.

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

You're basing your belief that a "high volume" of protesters don't know what they're protesting based on a small cherrypicked sample of ones you've seen interviewed? You don't see the problem here?

In other words, you want more empty virtue signalling.

Israel has shown it does not care about international pressure. The only thing that would actually make them stop is if the US turned off the tap, but that won't happen.

Israel has shown it does not care about international laws.

The efficacy of the protests wasn't the question.

Both israel and hamas and it's masters ahve shown they do care about international opinion.  That is abundently clear. 

When it turns against them it causes a lot of problems for them, so it matters.  They both take many actions to make sure that international opinion is on their side or at least not against them. 

This is simple fact. Arguing they don't is just dumb. 

And i love how when they're pro-palestinian protesters its' not 'virtue signalling' but is when it's pro israeli   As always your hypocrisy is off the charts  

Calling for our government to do the right thing and pressure hamas and it's parent organizations to surrender or release the prisoners is not virtue signaling. Gay people waving a Palestinian flag demanding that the Jews be slaughtered from the river to the sea in support of a group who would happily throw them from a tall building for their sexual orientation is virtue signaling.

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

legit one of the dumbest things you've ever said and that's an extremely competitive category. 

Basically this is what you always say when you know you're wrong and can't make an intelligent argument. Of course, what i said was 100% true. Which is why you couldn't argue against it.  It's like listening to you roll over and whine - ok ok, you know you're wrong, we get it.   

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The problem with this is when you're dealing with a state that is already an international pariah there's not very many levers you can work to influence them. Sanctions? The U.S. has had Iran under sanctions for almost 50 years. Military action? You think anyone wants to start a full blown regional war over a few dozen kibbutzim?

Right now a full-blown war with Iran is not terribly difficult. They have a small amount of very old gear and Russia is in no position to resupply them as they can barely keep themselves resupplied for their war. The nearest threat of war is more than enough to force the Iranians to reel in some of their surrogates. We are already seeing this with the radicals in Yemen backing off and stopping their attacks on shipping.

Iran does not want a war. It is the last thing they want. And before full-blown war were to happen they could lose a ton of their infrastructure in strikes that they simply have no capacity to respond to. the serious threat of war alone is enough and if public opinion supports Israel and is against Iran then they know that becomes a very real possible thing

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The protesters aren't trying to pressure the government, they're pressuring their institutions. Again, you obviously have no idea what these protests are about.

Have you seen the interviews? They have no idea what their institutions are doing that they want them to stop. They aren't trying to realistically pressure their institutions to do anything meaningful. That's just an excuse for why they are on the campus, many of whom are even students. The majority aren't by many accounts.

What they are doing is what the protesters have been attempting to do since day one. Create civil unrest in the hopes that canadian public opinion will either turn against Israel or that people will be so afraid of further disruption that they will suggest to the Canadian government that we should stay out of it.

It's kind of sad you needed this explain to you.

 

Edited May 14 by CdnFox

[Black Dog]

On 5/14/2024 at 9:30 AM, CdnFox said:

Both israel and hamas and it's masters ahve shown they do care about international opinion.  That is abundently clear. 

When it turns against them it causes a lot of problems for them, so it matters.  They both take many actions to make sure that international opinion is on their side or at least not against them. 

This is simple fact. Arguing they don't is just dumb. 

Where's the evidence for any of this. Can you point to any specific examples of Israel or Hamas buckling to international pressure? It's absurd.

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And i love how when they're pro-palestinian protesters its' not 'virtue signalling' but is when it's pro israeli   As always your hypocrisy is off the charts  

Truth hurts.

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Calling for our government to do the right thing and pressure hamas and it's parent organizations to surrender or release the prisoners is not virtue signaling. Gay people waving a Palestinian flag demanding that the Jews be slaughtered from the river to the sea in support of a group who would happily throw them from a tall building for their sexual orientation is virtue signaling.

Calling for our government to do the thing it's already doing and that won't actually influence any events at all ios the very definition of virtue signalling, loser.

 

 

[Black Dog]

On 5/14/2024 at 9:37 AM, CdnFox said:

Basically this is what you always say when you know you're wrong and can't make an intelligent argument. Of course, what i said was 100% true. Which is why you couldn't argue against it.  It's like listening to you roll over and whine - ok ok, you know you're wrong, we get it.   

More emojis doesn't make you less of a b!tch, b!tch.

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Right now a full-blown war with Iran is not terribly difficult. They have a small amount of very old gear and Russia is in no position to resupply them as they can barely keep themselves resupplied for their war. The nearest threat of war is more than enough to force the Iranians to reel in some of their surrogates. We are already seeing this with the radicals in Yemen backing off and stopping their attacks on shipping.

lol, I bet you thought the invasion and occupation of Iraq would be a cakewalk too.

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Iran does not want a war. It is the last thing they want. And before full-blown war were to happen they could lose a ton of their infrastructure in strikes that they simply have no capacity to respond to. the serious threat of war alone is enough and if public opinion supports Israel and is against Iran then they know that becomes a very real possible thing

Gee if a full blown war with Iran would be such a walk in the park, I wonder why no one has thought of it in the last 50 years? Either you have no idea what you're talking about or the entire foreign policy establishment in multiple states is clueless. I know which I'm betting on.

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Have you seen the interviews? They have no idea what their institutions are doing that they want them to stop. They aren't trying to realistically pressure their institutions to do anything meaningful. That's just an excuse for why they are on the campus, many of whom are even students. The majority aren't by many accounts.

I've seen the interviews where they're quite clear about their goals. Disclose any ties to Israel and divest from companies that do business there. 

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What they are doing is what the protesters have been attempting to do since day one. Create civil unrest in the hopes that canadian public opinion will either turn against Israel or that people will be so afraid of further disruption that they will suggest to the Canadian government that we should stay out of it.

It's kind of sad you needed this explain to you.

 

"Create civil unrest" lmao gtfo.

[I am Groot]

On 5/9/2024 at 12:21 PM, Black Dog said:

*says protesters are uneducated

*doesn't understand what "solidarity" means.

Maybe he doesn't understand why anyone would stand in solidarity with Nazis and yet call themselves left wing or progressive. Except that the general opinion towards Jews by these people is likely far worse than the Nazis had.

On 5/9/2024 at 8:55 PM, Army Guy said:

Yup so smart , their stupid....

Be kind of like chickens standing in solidarity with KFC...

Or jews standing in solidarity with the SS guards...

Jews standing in solidarity with Gaza isn't much different from that last one. These people voted for Hamas, an organization which wants to kill all Jews in the world. And if there was another election they'd get in again, and in the West Bank too. Palestinians do NOT like Jews. AT ALL. 

[I am Groot]

On 5/9/2024 at 10:21 PM, eyeball said:

Or like standing beside every other peace protestor through history...facing an uphill battle.

I mean, you would have been calling for more carpet bombing and napalm back in the day right?

And what would you have been doing back in the day? Occupying universities with signs saying "Hands off Hitler"?

Demanding peace with an armed group that refuses to surrender and promises that they will launch more murderous rape attacks the instant they can is not something any moral or intelligent person could possibly support. Note that they promise such attacks will continue until Israel is destroyed, not until Palestine is free a brutal Islamic state.

[I am Groot]

On 5/14/2024 at 11:25 AM, Black Dog said:

The problem with this is when you're dealing with a state that is already an international pariah there's not very many levers you can work to influence them.

An international pariah? Not among the 51 member states of the Organization of the Islamic Conference. Not with Russia or China or those they influence like Cuba and Venezuala.

Who would be more likely to face angry protesting crowds if they came to Canada to give a speech, the leader of Israel or the leader of Hamas?

Hamas believes the attack on Oct 7 was a magnificent victory. Not just because they killed some Jews, but because the propaganda campaign orchestrated by them, Iran and Qatar's Al Jazeera has had enormous influence in reigniting antisemitism throughout the world. 

That tens of thousands of their people have died is irrelevant. They're martyrs and their families are to be congratulated. And international aid will send billions to rebuild Gaza anyway. More of the world hates Israel and Jews now! That is worth any number of deaths.

Being a godless socialist you simply don't have the imagination to understand the mind of religious zealots. To understand the mind of Iran's former president, who said that as soon as Iran gets nuclear weapons they must use them on Israel. Because even though millions of Muslims will die in the ensuring retaliatioin, well, there are a lot of Muslims and they are spread around more. The nation of Islam will survive, but Israel will not.

Well worth millions of deaths to people like this.

 

Edited May 15 by I am Groot

[eyeball]

36 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Note that they promise such attacks will continue until Israel is destroyed, not until Palestine is free a brutal Islamic state.

Lots of brutal Israelis mention from the river to the sea as well. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

Where's the evidence for any of this. Can you point to any specific examples of Israel or Hamas buckling to international pressure? It's absurd.

Sure.  In pretty much every other war they've had. International pressure played major roles  in  in in 2008–2009, 2012, 2014, and 2021.  And the '6 day war' was called that because Israel knew they'd have 6 days before the UN shut them down and made them stop. In 2012 it was the un voting to grant gaza status that brought things to a close and forced israel to change how it dealt with Palestine. 

FFS - israel was CREATED by international pressure. 

Even in this war international pressure has played a role. 

Neither party can fight without support from outsiders. And they both rely on outside help a great deal even during peace times.  

You would have to have absolutely zero knowledge to claim international pressure doesn't play a role in these conflicts -  it completely does.  Both sides will lose big time if the international community turns against them. Which is what hamas was hoping for with it's inflated kill numbers of course. 

General Assembly Votes Overwhelmingly to Accord Palestine ‘Non-Member Observer State’ Status in United Nations | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

More emojis doesn't make you less of a b!tch, b!tch.

More crybabying doesn't make you less of a cry baby, baby  

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lol, I bet you thought the invasion and occupation of Iraq would be a cakewalk too.

Gee i bet you don't realize the difference between then and now    

 

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Gee if a full blown war with Iran would be such a walk in the park, I wonder why no one has thought of it in the last 50 years? 

Because we don't attack other countries without a good reason. Until recently iran was an ally of the us - where'd you think they got all those f15's from ?  Ebay?

In any case, a shooting war would go  bad for iran. I doubt we'd invade but just with missile and airstrikes iran could be reduced to a shadow of what it is - ALL their military hardware, bases, military manufacturing, nuclear test sites etc, the leadership on the run or dead, possibly even their oil fields under UN control "for the good of the people  of iran",  we've seen THAT before. 

Iran isn't interested in ANY of that. They really can't fight back right now. 

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I've seen the interviews where they're quite clear about their goals. Disclose any ties to Israel and divest from companies that do business there. 

Like what. Which companies. What investments. What kind of 'ties'? 

Clear as mud. 

Just like your brain   

The kids have no idea what they're even protesting for. 

[Moonbox]

I just think it's funny how important these polling numbers are...the mediocre support for campus protests, but the fact that the Freedumb Convoy had something like 70% of people opposed to it was irrelevant and not worth discussing for...certain types.  😆

For the record, I think these campus protests (especially in Canada) are useless and incoherent, protesting everything and nothing at the same time.  

[eyeball]

22 hours ago, Moonbox said:

For the record, I think these campus protests (especially in Canada) are useless and incoherent, protesting everything and nothing at the same time.  

I think they're coming to the realization that there's a pattern to the resistance to their protests - it's almost entirely right wing in nature with little to no variance between issues. 

I can't think of many issues these days that don't automatically default to right/left hatred.  I don't necessarily see this as as bad thing because I think this divisiveness needs to come to a head so we can bury our hatchets in it, so to speak.  Maybe literally if that's what it takes to get past it.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

 

I can't think of many issues these days that don't automatically default to right/left hatred.  I don't necessarily see this as as bad thing because I think this divisiveness needs to come to a head so we can bury our hatchets in it, so to speak.  Maybe literally if that's what it takes to get past it.

Sure, because that's ever happened in history. 

Divisions almost never heal.  At best they scab over temporarily.  The left started the culture wars in the states and they spread here.  Trudeau has used them to win his elections and has spread the hatred as hard as he can. The right has become defensive and is retaliating now. 

That never goes away.  that's the new normal. Society has to collapse for that to change, as we've seen in history.  It's about as likely as the palestinians and the jews putting things behind them next week now that it's 'come to a head'. 

You've been saying that for decades  

That's why it's hard to forgive the left or justin for turning people against each other. 

[I am Groot]

On 5/15/2024 at 1:41 PM, eyeball said:

Lots of brutal Israelis mention from the river to the sea as well. 

I'm not talking about a slogan. I'm talking about an explicit religious belief that until all the Jews are dead, the day of judgment can take place. And they are a religious party involved in politics, not a political party involved with religion.

[eyeball]

15 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I'm not talking about a slogan. I'm talking about an explicit religious belief that until all the Jews are dead, the day of judgment can take place. And they are a religious party involved in politics, not a political party involved with religion.

Yup, crazy assed religion works both ways. Apparently there can't be a proper end of days without an Israel full of Israelis for Christ to convert.

[Nationalist]

There is so much to be appalled at in this situation. Frankly both sides have acted horrible over Isreal's illustrus existence.

Seeing what we do today, I think Israel's end game is clear. They want to herd the people of Gaza into Egypt.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

There is so much to be appalled at in this situation. Frankly both sides have acted horrible over Isreal's illustrus existence.

Seeing what we do today, I think Israel's end game is clear. They want to herd the people of Gaza into Egypt.

Probably eventually.  Or at least 'elsewhere'.  I suspect they'll occupy the territory after, destroy all the tunnels which will involve basically digging them up which means destroying a crap tonne of the homes hospitals and such that they run under, and then make life unpleasant enough that most palestinians would like to be somewhere else. They'll call it 'temporary relocation while they rebuild', and they'll drag their heels destroying the tunnels and such and slowly rebuilding places so that 20 years goes by.  By then most of the people who lived 'temporarily' elsewhere will not want to bother coming back. 

 

[Nationalist]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

Probably eventually.  Or at least 'elsewhere'.  I suspect they'll occupy the territory after, destroy all the tunnels which will involve basically digging them up which means destroying a crap tonne of the homes hospitals and such that they run under, and then make life unpleasant enough that most palestinians would like to be somewhere else. They'll call it 'temporary relocation while they rebuild', and they'll drag their heels destroying the tunnels and such and slowly rebuilding places so that 20 years goes by.  By then most of the people who lived 'temporarily' elsewhere will not want to bother coming back. 

 

Yup. I hope they get along with Egyptians. 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Yup. I hope they get along with Egyptians. 

Egypt is furiously trying to prevent anything like that from happening. 

Their concern is that these twinkies haven't learned their lesson and will continue to do stupid things like shoot rockets into israel or launch attacks.  And if they're living in Egypt at the time then Egypt could take the brunt of the retaliation and find it'self at war with israel again and that's never gone well for them.