Pro-Hamas Rallies in Canada

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Yes you do. You know the answer. You just can't admit to it because it exposes how foolish your ME id10cy is.

No I don't and neither do you and you simply want any answer that confirms your bias. Sure they might have wound up hating Palestinians less than Jewish people but like I said, Palestinians are way to moderate for the modern day Iranian government/religion running the place to tolerate. Palestinians would likely be just as subjugated, abused and fu cked over as now.

10 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

FYI 1948 and 1967 came before 1979, stupid.

...stupid.... LMAO.

1953 is when Britain and it's proxy in the Whitehouse shoved Iran off the rails dipshit.

So as long as we're in the land of what if...imagine how different the ME and surrounding region might be if Britain and the US had left Iran alone and democracy had flourished? 

'But but but the commies!'

Meh, fu ck those arseholes too

10 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Can you name another country on earth whose elite forces are all dedicated to terrorism and ethnical cleansing? The Quds force isn't for the defence of Iran, they're just for massacring Jews and committing terrorist attacks. 

Yup. That's what we get for interfering in people's lives the way we did over there. You can draw a straight line from that right back to the Shiniest Beacon for Democracy and Freedom on the planet.

 

10 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Just because you don't understand why Iran's attitude towards Pakistan is germane to this discussion about Israel doesn't mean anything. Your ignorance and stupidity are legendary here.

Your reference to Pakistan in this discussion is just an exercise in whataboutery. It's what you do.

 

10 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

And before that it was Ottoman political vandalism, along with their 600 years of codified islamic religious bigotry.

Before them it was the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, and the Islamic Caliphate (and more centuries of codified islamic religious bigotry).

But "OMG, BRITAIN!!!!!  EMPIRES ARE BAD!!! 

The difference of course is that what we did to Palestine is within living memory of people it was done to. It's not ancient history. It's right now compared to the time-spans you're justifying your positions with.

So put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself how you'd feel right now.

Edited June 17, 2024 by eyeball

[eyeball]

So am I supposed to believe that a free and democratic Iran today would still be just as supportive of Hamas and as hateful towards Israel?

Bullshit.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

So am I supposed to believe that a free and democratic Iran today would still be just as supportive of Hamas and as hateful towards Israel?

Bullshit.

Absolutely. 

Why wouldn't it be? 

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

1953 is when Britain and it's proxy in the Whitehouse shoved Iran off the rails dipshit.

So as long as we're in the land of what if...imagine how different the ME and surrounding region might be if Britain and the US had left Iran alone and democracy had flourished?

It's very much unknown how democracy in Iran would have went if the 1953 coup never happened.  Mosaddegh was only in power for 2 years, it was a very corrupt country with rigged elections especially before 1951, and the Shah/monarchy still had power in that government.  The ME isn't exactly a beacon for stable democracies.

Iran probably wouldn't have gone so hardcore religious like after the 1979 revolution, and the coup was unethical and probably illegal, but the idea that Iran would have been a thriving democracy without the coup is speculative and unknown.  Iranians likely would have been better off without the coup though.

[I am Groot]

9 hours ago, eyeball said:

 but like I said, Palestinians are way to moderate for the modern day Iranian government/religion running the place to tolerate.

Evidence?

[eyeball]

58 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Evidence?

It's an opinion based on what I've read and seen or not seen as the case may be like ordinary Palestinian women being forced to wear burkas or people having limbs chopped off for theft or being stoned to death for apostasy.

Hamas is certainly less moderate but of course they're run by Iran not ordinary Palestinians.  It's pretty clear that prior to Zionists invading the Levant ordinary Muslims, Christians and Jews got along in their day to day lives just fine.

[Moonbox]

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Absolutely. 

Why wouldn't it be? 

Because the Iranian general population already hates Hamas and doesn't support them.  Defunding Hamas/Hezbollah/Houthis has been part of the protest movement from 2022 onward.  The Iranians go without proper water/electricity because their theocratic dictatorship prioritizes destabilizing the region over looking after its citizens. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Because the Iranian general population already hates Hamas and doesn't support them. 

And? Most americans hate iran's gov't but the US has still given them craptonnes over the years.  And i wonder how many iranians don't like israel. 

They DO seem to like their religious leaders and you're assuming that they woudln't elect a gov't based on that and woudlnt' care about hamas.  

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Defunding Hamas/Hezbollah/Houthis has been part of the protest movement from 2022 onward.

Soooo - like a year and a half? And i see a huge pro hamas protest movement in the states and in Canada right now - does that mean most of us SUPPORT hamas?

Even assuming there was no corruption a democratically elected gov't in iran would most likely be pursuing the same anti israeli stance and it likely woudln't be a top of the ballot box issue.  Look at how unpopular interfereing in the middle east was in the 80's and 90's in the us but they kept on doing it under both parties. 

It's to the iranian gov'ts advantage to have proxies picking fights and that'll keep happening one  way or another even if it was a democracy.  

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

No I don't

You're a shameless liar. I feel so sorry for anyone who's unfortunate enough to be part of your immediate family.  

Quote

...stupid.... LMAO.

1953 is when Britain and it's proxy in the Whitehouse shoved Iran off the rails dipshit.

Fine, use 1953 as your start date if you want to: it's still after 1948, when they instantly welcomed Pakistan to the international community, despite the piles of hundreds of thousands of hacked up and burnt bodies that had yet to be buried. 

Quote

So as long as we're in the land of what if...imagine how different the ME and surrounding region might be if Britain and the US had left Iran alone and democracy had flourished? 

🤣 Add "delusional m0r0n" to your laundry list of flaws. 

I'm not even beginning to discuss the possibility of a "flourishing democracy in Iran" when they just cheered on the genocides in Pakistan 5 years earlier. 

Quote

Your reference to Pakistan in this discussion is just an exercise in whataboutery. It's what you do.

I can't tell if it's your astronomical ignorance that's flaring up here or your legendary stupidity, but most people understand the hypocrisy of:

• an 80-yr grudge over 400 murders, and
• instant friendship despite a massacre of approxomitely 800,000 people. 

Quote

The difference of course is that what we did to Palestine is within living memory of people it was done to. It's not ancient history. It's right now compared to the time-spans you're justifying your positions with.

1. How long ago was the Ottoman Empire dipsnit? It just ended 30 years before partition. Their codified religious bigotry is still normal all over the ME today.
2. What the Pakistanis did to Sikhs and Hindus wasn't 80 years ago when Iran befriended the newly formed Pakistan, dummy. The bodies were literally still lying all over the ground. They would have covered over 100 acres if they were packed tightly, and some of those people hadn't even finished dying yet. There were also 8M people who were driven out of Pakistan who still hadn't found homes yet. They were wandering around with their hungry children looking for a place to stay and some food. The way you justify your positions is evil, revolting and repugnant.

Quote

So put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself how you'd feel right now.

How would I feel if my family was in refugee camps for 80 years, and no Christian countries would take us in? I'd feel like Christians weren't my people before I'd think of "other people" as my enemies. 

[impartialobserver]

Poverty (self created of course) plays a tertiary role in this and the middle east as a whole. Yes, they have oil and such. However, quite a few (and quite willingly in some cases) live in poverty and with poverty comes desperation. It is easier to recruit soldiers if they are starving, desperate, and/or bored. This is why you find the stereotypical radical muslim cleric in the poorer parts of the cities and in the rural areas. 

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

How would I feel if my family was in refugee camps for 80 years, and no Christian countries would take us in? 

In your case, I'd feel pretty good.

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

In your case, I'd feel pretty good.

At least you're consistent in your inhumanity.

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

They DO seem to like their religious leaders and you're assuming that they woudln't elect a gov't based on that and woudlnt' care about hamas.  

Yes, they definitely love the Ayatollah.  Supreme Religious leader provides for and loves all of his people, and makes sure they have every comfort they deserve.  

🤣

[User]

57 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Yes, they definitely love the Ayatollah. 

Who is the "they" you think you are talking about here because you just shared a picture of folks in LA protesting?

 

[Moonbox]

13 minutes ago, User said:

Who is the "they" you think you are talking about here because you just shared a picture of folks in LA protesting?

Whoops.  That was the first picture I came up with.  Is this better?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Yes, they definitely love the Ayatollah.  Supreme Religious leader provides for and loves all of his people, and makes sure they have every comfort they deserve.  

🤣

LOL - You are dumber than a stump if you think posting one picture of a tiny demonstration means that somehow the people would vote in a gov't that would oppose hamas or support israel   

well if you think one picture proves much of anything then here you go, guess this proves i'm right then  

The people of the UK are all pro palestine - if they had a democracy they'd go after israel, they wouldn't support them

 

The americans - VERY pro palestine, so they would NEVER support israel if they had a democracy

Canada? If we had a democracy we'd NEVER give a NICKLE to Israel

 

LOL - thanks for playing kid   

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's an opinion based on what I've read and seen or not seen as the case may be like ordinary Palestinian women being forced to wear burkas or people having limbs chopped off for theft or being stoned to death for apostasy.

Hamas is certainly less moderate but of course they're run by Iran not ordinary Palestinians.  It's pretty clear that prior to Zionists invading the Levant ordinary Muslims, Christians and Jews got along in their day to day lives just fine.

Why did the Palestinians vote them into power when they made it very plain they would institute an Islamic state under Sharia law? Was it that or the "we'll kill all the Jews, too." part?

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, I am Groot said:

Why did the Palestinians vote them into power when they made it very plain they would institute an Islamic state under Sharia law?

AFAIC it's because they had a shoddy election system. Of course I expect you'll defend the election and take the results to the bank the way you be do the sacredness of the UN decision to create Israel.

It was in January 2006 that the Palestinian territories held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45). Neither party was keen on sharing power. Fighting broke out between the two. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

 

Lara Friedman, president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace, which advocates for rapprochement and peace between Israelis and Palestinians, recently observed that in no single district in Gaza did Hamas win a majority of votes. At present, children make up roughly half of Gaza’s population, meaning only a fraction of the territory’s current population ever cast a ballot for Hamas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/

 

[I am Groot]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

AFAIC it's because they had a shoddy election system. Of course I expect you'll defend the election and take the results to the bank the way you be do the sacredness of the UN decision to create Israel.

I can point out that 44% of the vote would be considered a smashing victory in most Western countries, including Canada. And that the polls taken since then have repeatedly shown that if there were another election, Hamas would win. The ones taken since Oct 7 show the great majority of Palestinians approve of/are proud of the attack on Israel.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I can point out that 44% of the vote would be considered a smashing victory in most Western countries, including Canada.

I can point to millions of Canadians who would consider it a democratic farce. You seem to be oblivious to the hopes of millions of Canadians who would like to reform our electoral system to reflect the real intent of voters.

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The ones taken since Oct 7 show the great majority of Palestinians approve of/are proud of the attack on Israel.

Sure and Israelis appear to be tickled pink over the deaths of thousands of kids. Better that then the risk of them growing up to voting age I guess.

[CdnFox]

18 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I can point out that 44% of the vote would be considered a smashing victory in most Western countries, including Canada. And that the polls taken since then have repeatedly shown that if there were another election, Hamas would win. The ones taken since Oct 7 show the great majority of Palestinians approve of/are proud of the attack on Israel.

This is true, but one of them were interesting things I noticed is that in polling many of them don't even particularly want a democracy. They seem to think that some model of oligarchy is a better choice.

We often forget that not everyone thinks democracy is a great idea. They are quite happy to have someone else making all of the decisions and they just get on with their lives and take no responsibility even if that means their life is a lower quality.

But even that means they have to take responsibility for what their leaders decide.

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

AFAIC it's because they had a shoddy election system. Of course I expect you'll defend the election and take the results to the bank the way you be do the sacredness of the UN decision to create Israel.

It was in January 2006 that the Palestinian territories held what turned out to be their last parliamentary elections. Hamas won a bare plurality of votes (44 percent to the more moderate Fatah party’s 41 percent) but, given the electoral system, a strong majority of seats (74 to 45). Neither party was keen on sharing power. Fighting broke out between the two. When a unity government was finally formed in June 2007, Hamas broke the deal, started murdering Fatah members, and, in the end, took total control of the Gaza Strip. Those who weren’t killed fled to the West Bank, and the territories have remained split ever since.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/was-hamas-elected-to-govern-gaza-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

 

Lara Friedman, president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace, which advocates for rapprochement and peace between Israelis and Palestinians, recently observed that in no single district in Gaza did Hamas win a majority of votes. At present, children make up roughly half of Gaza’s population, meaning only a fraction of the territory’s current population ever cast a ballot for Hamas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/24/gaza-election-hamas-2006-palestine-israel/

 

Considering that 85 % of the votes were for the 2 known terrorist groups has got to say something about the Palestinian population, Fatah is just as bad as Hamas, both are global known terrorist groups...trying to paint the palestinian people as good becasue only 44 % of them voted for Hamas, is meaniless, when both parties have called for the destruction of Israel and death to all jews...let me repeat that 85 %, a vast majority of those palestinians that could vote, voted for a known terrorist group, that would continue the fight with israel.... 

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

 

We often forget that not everyone thinks democracy is a great idea. They are quite happy to have someone else making all of the decisions and they just get on with their lives and take no responsibility even if that means their life is a lower quality.

 

Sounds like a democracy here in Canada, we vote and 4 years later we vote again, we let whom ever make all the decisions , then we get on a forum like this and b!tch and moan...not many Canadians take responsibility for anything and in the case of the last 8 plus years quality of life as been lowered...a lot...

[WestCanMan]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's pretty clear that prior to Zionists invading the Levant ordinary Muslims, Christians and Jews got along in their day to day lives just fine.

How is that clear?

Jews were legally considered 3rd-class citizens by law across the whole ottoman empire. 

Riots and massacres targeting Jews weren't uncommon. 

For 1,000 years Jews weren't allowed to visit Temple Mount. 

Is that your version of what's "just fine"? 

It was 'just fine ' for muslims, for everyone else it sucked.

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Sure and Israelis appear to be tickled pink over the deaths of thousands of kids.

Cite?