Pro-Hamas Rallies in Canada

[User]

17 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The program of apartheid Israel has carried out against Palestinians ever since the creation of Israel. 

There is no apartheid Israel and again, whatever occupation the Palestinians are facing today is a direct result from their going to war in 1948 and the continued terrorism and wars since then. 

[eyeball]

On 5/12/2024 at 12:19 PM, suds said:

We know Hamas was behind Oct 7th. We also have to presume they knew well in advance what any Israeli response would look like. So by any stretch of the imagination, how would it make life better for the average Palestinian? It wouldn't, it would have quite the exact opposite affect. The worse things get the more foreign money comes flooding in, and those in power get wealthier and wealthier.

We don't know that ordinary Palestinians were behind it though. A couple of thousand ordinary Gazan's got up to go to work in Israel that morning like any other without a clue. There is strong reason to believe Iran, Russia and China had a lot more to do with the events of Oct 7 and I firmly believe the brutality was a calculated tactic with the goal of unleashing exactly the sort of brutal response, regional destabilization and global divisiveness we've witnessed.

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That's why Hamas has got to go, and ceasefires don't work. Unless one is under the opinion that Israel is simply going to roll over and play dead.

Of course Hamas has got to go but that'll only happen after there is a regime change in Iran and Russia and China's influence is neutralized.

Netanyahu was entirely correct to say this is a global conflict.  It's even in our universities and it's only spreading.

As I've said before the creation of Israel was and remains an unmitigated disaster - as evidenced by the consequences that are still unfolding as we speak.  I'd say this whole mess is as high on the list as a potential cause for nuclear conflict as Ukraine and Taiwan.

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Videospirit said:

Yes, All the jews in Arab occupied Palestine got exterminated while it was under Arab occupation after 1948. Oh wait... that didn't happen. You're a joke who has to imagine Arabs as genocidal boogeymen to justify your hatred of them. Stop acting like a bigot.

No, they didn't exterminate the Jews and I never said that they did, liar. 

They just tried to exterminate them.

There was a war that everyone but you knows about.

That war happened just 8 months after muslims SUCCESSFULLY ERADICATED 9 million Sikhs and Hindus in what's now Pakistan. They killed approximately 800,000, and forced out 8M more with no right to return.

The armies that attacked Israel are all on friendly terms with Pakistan. They're birds of a feather.

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I'm honestly not sure what the world would be like today if the Arabs had won in 1948. Jews would certainly have a much better reputation in the world as Israel would never have existed to drag their name through the mud, but they likely wouldn't have a sovereign state of their own because they never would have formed a state of Israel in the first place and thus wouldn't have any legal claim to territory for the Arabs to "give back" to them.

You know exactly what it would look like, you just can't say it because it completely deflates all arguments about the current Israeli borders. It would look exactly like this:

1. There would be no Israel.
2. There would be no Jews in the area which would have been re-named "Palestine". 
3. The slaughter of all the Jews in Palestine would have been forgiven by all the muslim countries long ago, just like the slaughter in Pakistan was completely forgiven by all the muslim countries right after it happened, and
4. Palestine would be well-loved by Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Yemen, etc. There would be no issues with Palestine whatsoever from the ME.

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So sold their lease, sold their sovereignty, does it really matter? Unless god personally descends to revoke the Palestinians lease, you got no legal argument.

What lease do Palestinians have? I don't see it anywhere. 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

They chose not to so Israel chose to force their coexistence instead and here we are.

 

You realize that makes THEM, not Israel, the aggressor right?

As you say, it was the Palestinian's choice not to co exist peacefully. They made that choice and it's cost them a lot of their land that they DID have and now it's going to cost them more. Tonnes of their people have died from that decision and more will die today. 

but that was their choice. Don't ask anyone else to feel bad about their decisions.

[eyeball]

51 minutes ago, User said:

There is no apartheid

I guess you've never heard about Canadian judge Ivan Rand or his role on the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine.

The unlikely Canadian who helped create the State of Israel

Ivan Rand helped draft the 1946 blueprint on Palestine's future. Despite an antisemitic streak, by most accounts he 'tipped the scales' for Israel

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-unlikely-canadian-who-helped-create-the-state-of-israel

 

Of course it takes one to know one...

In 1961, the South African prime minister and architect of South Africa's apartheid policies, Hendrik Verwoerd, dismissed an Israeli vote against South African apartheid at the United Nations, saying, "Israel is not consistent in its new anti-apartheid attitude ... they took Israel away from the Arabs after the Arabs lived there for a thousand years. In that, I agree with them. Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state."^[30] His successor John Vorster held the same view.^[31] Since then, a number of sources have used the apartheid analogy. In the early 1970s, Arabic language magazines of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) compared the Israeli proposals for Palestinian autonomy to the Bantustan strategy of South Africa.^[30] In 1970, an anti-apartheid activist in the UK's Liberal Party, Louis Eaks, referred to the situation in Israel as "apartheid" and was threatened with expulsion as a result.^[32]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid#Historical_comparisons:~:text=In 1961%2C the,result.[32]

 

Needless to say South Africa's system of apartheid was directly inspired by Canada's reserve system.

ABSTRACT How did ‘multicultural’ Canada come to be associated with, and

blamed for, the harsh Bantustans in South Africa’s apartheid regime? How did

the word ‘apartheid’ travel back and forth between the ‘Dominion’ and the

‘Union’? Did the word actually make this voyage? By taking Foucault’s notion

of genealogical method and applying it to a word (instead of an apparatus such

as an asylum), I conducted a conceptual inquiry into the specific historically

verifiable sources of ‘apartheid’ and its synchronic linguistic study. To conduct

an etymon genealogy, I investigated Internet archives for key combinations of

words as well as databases, library holdings, newspapers and government

records. The majority of sources characterise Canadian apartheid in the

Canadian Reserve System as a root of South Africa’s Bantustans. The volume of

references is great enough to warrant identifying this association as a trend.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233110123_Terminologies_of_Control_Tracing_the_Canadian-South_African_Connection_in_a_Word

 

Edited May 15 by eyeball

[eyeball]

57 minutes ago, User said:

Israel fought for their survival. You call that "forcing their coexistence" well duh. Just come out and say it, you wanted Israel to get wiped out in 1948 and all the Jews killed. Didn't you?

No I wasn't there myself were you?

What I want now for Israel and Palestine is the same thing we have here in Canada, a truth and reconciliation process followed by treaty negotiations. There is still a role Canada could play on the region despite our initial dark history that helped produce the dysfunctional state it's in.  I'd suggest our First Nations help lead the T&R process. 

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No I wasn't there myself were you?

 

Well you MUST have been  - given your absolute certainty that they were depressed and unhappy and such ,

Unless you're trying to claim it's possible to know things about a situation by studying records and the like? But... no that's crazy talk. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, User said:

Just come out and say it, you wanted Israel to get wiped out in 1948 and all the Jews killed. Didn't you?

It's pretty clear that much of the impetus for countries like Canada and Britain to support the creation of Israel was because we didn't want Jewish refugees settling here anymore than Arabs living in Palestine did.

What would you have supported doing in 1948?

I understand hindsight is quite important these days when it comes to knowing what we should or shouldn't have done. It's apparently especially important when taken/given as a guide to what to do moving forward.

[User]

35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No I wasn't there myself were you?

What I want now for Israel and Palestine is the same thing we have here in Canada, a truth and reconciliation process followed by treaty negotiations. There is still a role Canada could play on the region despite our initial dark history that helped produce the dysfunctional state it's in.  I'd suggest our First Nations help lead the T&R process. 

Oh... so, you can sit here talking about Israel forcing their coexistence on the Palestinians... but now all of a sudden you cop out with saying you were not there. 

For there to be any kind of reconciliation process, you need to talk to your pals in Hamas about how they want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. When you can get them to even agree to Israel/Jews right to exist there, let me know. 

[eyeball]

33 minutes ago, User said:

but now all of a sudden you cop out with saying you were not there. 

If the point you're trying to make here is that I support the rape and murder of Jews you can go fu ck yourself. That's an absolutely horrible and libelous thing to accuse someone of and if you said that to my face I'd hit you with a shovel.

Don't forget this is a global conflict now.

Edited May 15 by eyeball

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, Videospirit said:

 

Quote

The world has adopted a status quo that forbids the military annexation of territory from another sovereign state since the formation of the united nations. Like any law, it isn't perfect since rogue states like Israel or Russia or Turkey can break that law if they wish, but we've gone decades since world war 2 and the number of nations that have outright violated that norm can be counted on one hand, and the rest of the world remembers these violations and refuses to recognize them. 

I think you'll find more than 3 examples of land being annexed by force since WWII...you might need two hands...

Jordan annexed the west bank...Egypt annexed Gaza city...Iraq annexed Kuwait, China annexed Tibet,  India Annexed Hyderabad, Goa and Daman and Diu annexed by India, Western New Guinea or West Papua was annexed by Indonesia. north Vietnam annexed south Vietnam. a few other minor annexations as well. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation

 

As such, the original 1948 proposed borders for Israel have no real weight because they were never ratified and military conflict settled the borders, Israel got to keep whatever of Palestine they could hold militarily in 1948, and the majority of the planet accepts that as Israeli Territory.

The rest of Palestine became Arab territory. ( you mean was annexed by Egypt and Jordan  which was once again captured in Battle in conflict and has since been under Israelis command and control, until 2005 where Gaza was returned to palestinians who then elected Hamas and here we are today)   If Israel wants to regime change Palestine, whatever, I don't like it, but war is war, they can be forgiven if that's their objective. But what they absolutely need to do to be forgiven is give Palestine their land back after the war, and you should want them to do that too for the sake of world Peace. Israel has had decades to give Palestine their land back though, and the cause of the end of the ceasefire was Israel's refusal to return their land not some desire to genocide Israel. This is why Israel gets so much hatred and Israel, as a Nation, deserves it.

Here is the thing, you don't have to like what they are doing, your entitled to your opinion, but like everyone else everyone has one, and yours and the many others account for nothing in Israel state affairs. They are not looking for your forgiveness, they are to busy defending their nation to be concerned with a bunch of people who do not like or hate jewish people or their nation.

Israel has given back all the lands they have conquered in battle by signing peace accords with those nations affected, except Golan Heights, and portions of territory once held by palestinians..Perhaps all that is needed is a peace accord...but that is not in the Hamas charter is it. This is a double edged sword, if Palestinians stop attacking israel perhaps discussions can begin...

But you and a vast number of other people think that this issue is strictly Israel's fault... And weith out any meaningful peace talks happening in the last 60 years Israel is tired of the constant threats to it's people, and today we see tanks fighter aircraft attacking Hamas in Gaza and Fatah in west bank...You think this is about land lost in 1948...it has never been about 1948, Palestinians  want the entire block of land that is now Israel...and won't stop until they get it...This is what your cheerleading for...the total destruction of Israel...these are the people your standing up for...says alot about you and your character...

Don't think for one moment they need your approval, or global support.... Israel actions are being dictated by those of hamas... 

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Shut the f*ck up you stalker creep.

WOW...maybe it is time your took a break big fella..your starting to sound like those people everyone talks about at the water cooler...

[DUI_Offender]

6 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Shut the f*ck up you stalker creep.

Admit it. 

 

You love me.

Edited May 15 by DUI_Offender

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

This is a double edged sword, if Palestinians stop attacking israel perhaps discussions can begin...

By the same sword, if Israelis stop beating on Palestinians...

Oh what's the use, it'll just go around and round an round again...ad nauseum.

If we just wait for them it'll be this way for generations. Peace will have to be forced on them if we ever expect this to end in our lifetimes.

[WestCanMan]

20 hours ago, Videospirit said:

Palestine: "End the occupation of our land so we can return to peace."

Israel: "I'd rather not. Maybe if you give up your sovereignty and become a puppet state of Israel with 0 military we'd consider it. That's totally a thing that other sovereign states on planet earth do right?"

CdnFox: "Clearly Israel is open to peace and it's the Palestinians who don't want peace."

Palestine: "If you kill Jews in a terrorist attack, you get a pension. If you die killing Jews, your family gets a pension. Help us build bombs so that we can drop them on Israel to kill as many people as possible. Never negotiate. The only proper solution is an entirely muslim state from the river to the sea."

Israel: "Stop trying to commit genocide against us. Stop committing terrorist attacks. Give us the hostages back."

CdnFox: "Clearly Israel is open to peace and it's the Palestinians who don't want peace."

Everyone else with a brain: "Clearly Israel is open to peace and it's the Palestinians who don't want peace."

 

Videospirit, just remember this: The most passionate people of all are violent bigots - people willing to kill just out of prejudice - so the most passionate people in the room aren't necessarily the most aggrieved. 

Just remember that Palestinians were already angrily protesting on Oct 8th. The only thing that had happened at that point was Palestinians burning children to death and raping/murdering women and then parading their naked corpses around so that Palestinian children could spit on them. 

If those naked corpses were paraded in front of you, would you spit on them? Are you the kind of person who wuld burn babies to death, and send the video to your parents? Would seeing that kind of video make them love you more? 

If not, then you don't have anything in common with your fellow Hamas supporters. 

Edited May 16 by WestCanMan

[User]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

If the point you're trying to make here is that I support the rape and murder of Jews you can go fu ck yourself. That's an absolutely horrible and libelous thing to accuse someone of and if you said that to my face I'd hit you with a shovel.

You keep talking about peace, when Hamas is not interested in it. You keep blaming Israel, your policies would leave Hamas in power. 

Hit me with a shovel? You have shown more outrage to me here than Hamas, and they are the ones who did the rape and murder. 

[User]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

By the same sword, if Israelis stop beating on Palestinians...

Here you are again, defending Hamas and justifying their actions by drawing a false equivalency with Israel. 

 

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

If the point you're trying to make here is that I support the rape and murder of Jews you can go fu ck yourself. That's an absolutely horrible and libelous thing to accuse someone of and if you said that to my face I'd hit you with a shovel.

 

You absolutely have been supporting that and if you tried i'd take your shovel away and bury you with it, you pathetic internet tough guy. 

You can muster all the 'fake' outrage you like but you've spent months here absolutely defending those actions, and you've got no right to get mad when people point it out to you. 

"Oh it was terrible and all BUT - totally justified, israel had it coming, i completely understand why, never forget 1948 thos people were so hard done by of course they did this blah blah blah"

There is NO excuse. Zero. None.  This is ALL 100 percent gaza's fault and they are enjoying the fruits of their labour right now. 

 

[WestCanMan]

18 hours ago, eyeball said:

If the point you're trying to make here is that I support the rape and murder of Jews you can go fu ck yourself. That's an absolutely horrible and libelous thing to accuse someone of and if you said that to my face I'd hit you with a shovel.

He never accused you of knowingly supporting rape and murder, he just said that you support it.

You also unwittingly support genocide, because that's always been the goal of the Khartoum res crowd, going back to 1967, 1948, and beyond.  

 

Just pretend that you really cared about Palestinians 20 years ago, or 50 years ago, and you were no fan of war. You would have constantly found yourself wondering: "If people love these Palestinians so much, why don't they actually help them get a nicer life? How is it possible that no one in the muslim world is trying to trying to advocate for peace with Israel? They all have peace with Pakistan, and Pakistan committed two massive genocides, both of which killed several times more people than all of the Israeli wars, combined."

Clearly the hatred against Israel has nothing to do with the number of people that they killed, or any ongoing religious bigotry, or Pakistan would have been nuked by now. The hatred against Israel, which you thoroughly support by shilling for Hamas, comes from religious bigotry, 100%.

 

If Israel relents, and lets Hamas keep their current tunnels and rebuild, there absolutely will be another massive terrorist attack, tens of thousands more rockets dropping on Israel, and more attempts at genocide. Do you not see that? Are you going to be surprised when that happens again? How many times can the same thing surprise you, over and over?

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, User said:

You have shown more outrage to me here than Hamas, and they are the ones who did the rape and murder. 

I'm betting it was Iranians, rape is more their style.

11 hours ago, User said:

Here you are again, defending Hamas and justifying their actions by drawing a false equivalency with Israel. 

And there you go again conflating Iran's stooges with ordinary Palestinians and acting as if Oct 7 was the historical start of the conflict between Israel and Palestine.

[User]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm betting it was Iranians, rape is more their style.

So, you continue to defend Hamas by coming up with some bogus assertion it was the Iranians. 
 

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And there you go again conflating Iran's stooges with ordinary Palestinians and acting as if Oct 7 was the historical start of the conflict between Israel and Palestine.

No, Hamas. Also, ordinary Palestinians joined in on October 7th to loot Israelis and cheer on Hamas as they drug the dead bodies and Hostages back through the streets of Gaza. 

Just don't fake being outraged about being called out for your support for Hamas when you sit here supporting Hamas. 

[Venandi]

16 hours ago, eyeball said:

Oh what's the use, it'll just go around and round an round again...ad nauseum.

Yes it will.

You need look no further than this forum to see why there are no easy solutions. I've done 3 tours in the area (the first being UNEF in 1977 at the age of 19) and a bunch of training, I've watched this play out over decades and I have no solution. In fact  I usually don't even bother discussing the issue with anyone who hasn't served there. 

That's because there's  no point in it. 

One things for sure, Hamas is dedicated to the killing of Jews and the destruction of Israel. They're closely aligned with other bad actors in the region and that's why refugees are a non starter with other Islamic countries, especially those with monarchies.  There is zero chance for peace while Hamas reigns there... zero.

I've often used the analogy of negotiating a fence line with the murderous neighbour next door who just got out of jail for firebombing your house and poisoning your dog... this is that IMO and people with the strongest views on this subject always seem to be those who can't get through Christmas dinner with their own in-laws.

Like some places in Africa, they will fight themselves to a standstill, pause, regroup, rearm and do it again at regular intervals when assets allow. Until the belligerents want peace, until they are willing to partner with each other to achieve it, there will be no peace. 

 

 

[eyeball]

38 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

He never accused you of knowingly supporting rape and murder, he just said that you support it.

You also unwittingly support genocide

Fu ck you too for saying I support the rapists and murderers of Jews.

Fricken' ass-holes the whole lot of you who knowingly accuse people of this.  It's even most evident when you try to back-peddle from it. You see the same thing when you try to distance yourselves from other off the cuff shoot from the lip comments you people make when so many other issues come up.

There's nothing unwitting about it, no one is forcing you to say stupid libellous shit. It's entirely by choice...its just free speech right?

Fu ck you.

[eyeball]

25 minutes ago, User said:

So, you continue to defend Hamas by coming up with some bogus assertion it was the Iranians.

No, I'm just challenging the insistence that it was ordinary Palestinians, especially kids and people just trying to survive the already harsh realities of day to day to life under the thumbs of all the oppressors lined up against them.

Hamas and its rulers don't give any more of a shit about them than Israel or its most hard-boiled allies do.

[eyeball]

25 minutes ago, Venandi said:

Until the belligerents want peace, until they are willing to partner with each other to achieve it, there will be no peace.

The only way that'll happen is if the belligerents hand the issue of making peace over to secular leftists. Religious conservatives are completely and hopelessly unsuited for the job.