Army Guy Posted August 19 Report Share Posted August 19 44 minutes ago, User said: Do you have some insight on their exact troop placements to know they have no protection on the flanks? Looks like the have more of a plan than you give them credit for: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/18/europe/zelensky-kursk-incursion-second-bridge-intl/index.html Where do you get this is for no real gain? Your presumption being this will have no outcome on the conflict... Where do you get this information from? The last think I read, 3 hours ago, is talking about what the 2025 budget will look like, with perhaps some reductions... but there has been no official budget cuts to supporting Ukraine as of yet. Really? Putin has struggled with an effective response. Ukraine continues to take more land in Russia. My God man, you have been railing on here about how much land Russia keeps taking and Ukraine has taken more Russian land in a couple of weeks than Russia has taken all year from Ukraine. Putin has had to pull troops off the lines and scramble other units together to put some kind of response in place. This is what, the first time since WWII Russia has been invaded? This whole thing changes the narrative Putin has been spinning for his people. I just can't... I can't with your constant exaggerated down playing of this while you have been on here touting over and over again how much land Russia gains. You claim you are not a cheerleader, but almost everything you say is overly negative about Ukraine and overly positive for Russia. Which ones? Not Germany. Funds for 2024 have been allocated. What "tap" is being turned off? Ukraine just started getting F-16s this month too. Right now, Russia is losing more of its own territory daily. Vastly more. Where are you getting this? You dodged the question again. You can sit her and tell me exactly what you think about this incursion into Russia... but you can't say yes or no to surrender? This is why folks like me start to really question your motives here on top of what I outlined already about how you portray things. Are you saying that troop composition is not already known...exact numbers are not known , but rough numbers are already known to everyone with intra net access...and i'm betting well known to Russia and Ukraine allied...Although this guy is also an airchair warriors he does bring up some interesting points... Can you honestly tell me, that Ukraine is going to hold this area, and if so for how long....So what is the real gain here ? This gain is temporary at best, Russia has not really responded to this incursion other than sending bits and pieces from various units...But thinking Russia has all of it's troops tied up in ukraine is simply a wishful dream...What is scaring NATO right now is that very question Why has Russia not fully responded and what are they going to do... This is the second incursion into Russia, If Russia does reinforce the borders, Ukraine will have to do the same...and for a nation that is strapped for troop where are they going to get them from...if Ukraine don't reinforce those same borders will be porous for the russians to open up new fronts Germanys cutting its support to Ukraine by more than Half, as a cost cutting measure....I wonder how long other nations will take to follow suit...and i have said before what about all the uncertainty of the US election...what do you think will happen in a trump win ? https://ca.news.yahoo.com/analysis-cutting-germanys-military-aid-204446790.html https://www.euronews.com/2024/08/19/analysis-cutting-germanys-military-aid-to-ukraine-will-have-a-major-impact Yes i have been talking about Russian gains, and not to take anything away from Ukraine incursion, it is working out much better than they planed for....i mean they have currently over 4 brigades worth of troops there...some of their best troops , against russian conscripts...But then again ask your self honestly do you think Russia is going to do nothing? and when they do something do you think they will be able to hold....now stack that against what if these same troops were used to push Russian troops out of Ukraine or reinforce current Ukrainian forces on the defensive lines......And where did these Ukrainian troops come from, they came from the front lines, so some where they weaken their lines to put in place this incursion... Yes the first time since WWII Russia has been invaded...It is fantastic they are making history....but really where does that medal go on your uniform...and what does it get you in this conflict... I guess in a few weeks we will see if it was truly worth the cost...like you i don't have a crystal ball, but i do follow those that have better insight than i do... If thats how you see me then so be it, call me whatever you want, but show me where the my facts are wrong, and i'll provide you with a source to back that up....Do you really think that Ukraine on its own can compete with Russian resources, and manpower....do you really think NATO is providing enough support ? Has russian losses affected it's determination to take ground? Is Russia taking ground ? Do you think the F-16 are going to be a game changer ? How many is Ukraine getting ? How many do you think they'll really need ? NAto supply is but a a drip to what it was once...how many NATO tanks have been donated in the last 6 months...How many Air defense systems, how many IFV, western nations are doing two things at once here, rearming themselves first, what is left over is given to Ukraine...I mean i know your an american, but my country is sitting on more equipment that needs to be replaced and we have given only 8 possible 12 leopard IIA4M tanks...we could have given them the whole fleet for what it cost to replace them all.... Now Germany is cut it's aid in half, it won't be long before others follow Germany is not the only nation deep in debt....And Canada is not alone in cheaping out on donations there are plenty of others.... The question to surrender would depend on IS NATO going to step up and give them the equipment to go on the offensive....because that is the only way to throw a nation off your territory... IS Russia making gains in territory ? Look like i said before Ukraines position is not a positive one,to many moving pieces to many things are being relied on.... just look at the facts, they all point to things are not looking good at the moment....and if you see a temporary russian land grab as making great changes on the battlefield you're wrong, it looks good right now, but in a month will you still see it as a positive... And i'm not really to concern about how people see my motives....And i'm not here to convert the masses to seeing it my way, I'm call them as i see them, everyone has a choice to respond or ignore...This conflict is not all rainbows and unicorns as the media sometimes portrays... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 Didn't Ukraine just get given F-16s? I agree that the US needs to allow Ukraine to use their weapons in Russia. I suspect they already are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 18 hours ago, Army Guy said: Can you honestly tell me, that Ukraine is going to hold this area, and if so for how long....So what is the real gain here ? They are still holding it now, pushing more forces in. Given Russia's slow response, things are looking good for them so far. I already explained the gain. If it takes Russia as much time to push them out as they have been doing on the other Fronts, they could hold this for years. 18 hours ago, Army Guy said: Germanys cutting its support to Ukraine by more than Half, as a cost cutting measure.... That is 2025 budget. We are still in 2024. You tried to claim they stopped funding now. This is still a proposal as well. 18 hours ago, Army Guy said: NAto supply is but a a drip to what it was once... Again, this is an exaggeration. The US has been shipping them weapons, we just passed a huge spending bill for them. They just got F-16's... you can see all sorts of articles showing military aid is still flowing in. 19 hours ago, Army Guy said: Now Germany is cut it's aid in half, Like, how many times are you going to say this when it is not true? They are committed to 2024 and what is being talked about is spending in 2025, which has yet to be finalized. 19 hours ago, Army Guy said: it looks good right now, but in a month will you still see it as a positive... We are already on our way to 1 month... this is always the story for the past 2 years now. Doom and gloom, Ukraine is going to fall any moment now... we have been in this discussion for months here now. 19 hours ago, Army Guy said: And i'm not really to concern about how people see my motives....And i'm not here to convert the masses to seeing it my way, I'm call them as i see them, everyone has a choice to respond or ignore...This conflict is not all rainbows and unicorns as the media sometimes portrays... Nor is it all doom and gloom as you portray. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 20 Report Share Posted August 20 2 hours ago, User said: They are still holding it now, pushing more forces in. Given Russia's slow response, things are looking good for them so far. I already explained the gain. If it takes Russia as much time to push them out as they have been doing on the other Fronts, they could hold this for years. That is 2025 budget. We are still in 2024. You tried to claim they stopped funding now. This is still a proposal as well. Again, this is an exaggeration. The US has been shipping them weapons, we just passed a huge spending bill for them. They just got F-16's... you can see all sorts of articles showing military aid is still flowing in. Like, how many times are you going to say this when it is not true? They are committed to 2024 and what is being talked about is spending in 2025, which has yet to be finalized. We are already on our way to 1 month... this is always the story for the past 2 years now. Doom and gloom, Ukraine is going to fall any moment now... we have been in this discussion for months here now. Nor is it all doom and gloom as you portray. For now yes it does look good, And Ukraine is reinforcing the area...from where is the question? reinforcing one sector means weakening another...Thats the big problem your neglecting, Russian forces have forces spread all over Russia , that can be used without worries about weaken a sector on the ukrainian front lines... Again i ask what gains will this give Ukraine... We all have dreams, but in reality I'd say maybe a mouth or two...at best... The 2024 budget that germany has set aside has already been packaged and delivered....with 4 1/2 months left in this year it is time to get 2025 up and running...and it has been cut in half, as a cost saving measure...as they are struggling rearming their own country...My question to you is do you think this is going to be the new trend, NATO countries cutting back...Germany has been one of the larger contributors....many other NATO countries have been giving the bare minimum...look at my country Canada, has barely even made a worthy contribution...the US / UK and german have made up the bulk of the contributions... Most of the aid that is being sent is Ammo, air defence equipment, IFV...i mean if it was not for US support this entire project would collapse on itself, But what Ukraine is screaming for is much more air defense equipment, tanks, IFVs and a greater supply of arty/ rocket ammo...I'm sure ukraine is extremely grateful, but current aid is not enough...nor is it fast enough.. Yes they did get F-16, very early models, that NATO countries are getting rid off and replacing them with newer or different aircraft...so far i think just over 70-80 will be donated, some are due to arrive in 2024 and the rest in 2025...they will be delivered piece meal...and not in any great numbers that will make a great difference... The F16 is much better than what they are flying right now, even though they are early models, and they will make a difference in the skies over Ukraine, no doubt in my mind...but many organizations don't see it that way, they think much more is needed in order to complete all of Ukraines airfare missions...65 aircraft are what is needed just for air superiority, no other mission suchs as ground attack, etc.... https://www.csis.org/analysis/f-16s-unleashed-how-they-will-impact-ukraines-war Quote The capabilities of the F-16 enable Ukraine to hold more Russian targets at risk and, in turn, gain more leverage in the war and at the negotiation table. To create a strategic “fleet in being” that Russia must respect, the size of the F-16 fleet matters. NATO countries have committed 65 F-16s to Ukraine. However, more are needed to give the Ukrainian Air Force more power to affect the ground war. As a simple starting point, NATO should be willing to replace all of Ukraine’s Soviet-era fighters with F-16s or equivalent NATO-standard aircraft and dramatically expand the size of Ukraine’s fighter fleet beyond pre-2022 strengths. Some estimates suggest that the size of Ukraine’s fighter fleet was only 69 aircraft in March 2023. By NATO standards, that number of aircraft may make up no more than three fighter squadrons (with 18 aircraft per squadron). Ukraine needs close to 12 fighter squadrons to achieve the air support needed for the war on the ground, with four squadrons primarily responsible for each core mission set: (1) suppression of enemy air defenses, (2) air interdiction, and (3) defensive counter air. This aim would require 216 F-16s, with 18 aircraft in each squadron. Additionally, NATO should have a reserve of F-16s available for resupply on demand, proportional to historical combat loss rates. I gave you 2 or 3 sources that state Germany is cutting it's aid in half...2025 is only 4 1/2 months away, and the 2024 budget has already been spent of given to ukraine...not sure what your point is... The Ukraine incursion is only 2 weeks old, and we are just now seeing it develop, you see it as some glories event, and i see it as a waste of manpower and resources, for no real realist goals.... My narrative is my opinion, you don't have to like it, just like your posts are your opinion, i'm not trying to convince you of anything, I've posted sources, to back up my statements, that's all i can really do, it is a discussion forum right... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 21 Report Share Posted August 21 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: Again i ask what gains will this give Ukraine... Again, I already told you. It helps if you actually respond directly to what I say. For as much as Ukraine has to sacrifice to move troops here... the same goes for Russia having to sacrifice to move troops to counter... 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: The 2024 budget that germany has set aside has already been packaged and delivered.... You presented this not as a proposal, but as a done deal, as if Germany cut the funding. You said: "And now some countries are withdrawing their support to ukraine , germany being one of them" Except, Germany has not withdrawn anything yet. You presented this as present tense, not future plans... maybe. I have corrected you every step of the way, and it is such an obvious fact and silly at this point that you have not conceded that you were wrong. 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: Yes they did get F-16 I am not here to quibble over your thoughts on the F-16s delivered... it was your characterization that nothing was being sent anymore; this was just one example to show you that military equipment was indeed still flowing into Ukraine. 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: I gave you 2 or 3 sources that state Germany is cutting it's aid in half...2025 is only 4 1/2 months away, and the 2024 budget has already been spent of given to ukraine...not sure what your point is... My point was and is that you characterized this as if it were present tense... when it is a proposal in the works for 2025. Nevermind, that Europe has been working on other ways to help fund things with the frozen Russian assets as well. You presented this as if, yet again, your all doom and gloom outlook on this, that somehow this was the end for them. Hell, you did not originally say they were cutting funding in half either, you presented this more vaguely to start as if they were stopping all funding. 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: My narrative is my opinion, you don't have to like it, just like your posts are your opinion, i'm not trying to convince you of anything, I've posted sources, to back up my statements, that's all i can really do, it is a discussion forum right... I have posted sources as well. To the point I have made, that your opinion is rather meaningless compared to what Ukraine thinks and has a strategy for. They are the ones on the ground fighting this every single day. I gave you a source explaining their motivations and strategy. That is not my opinion. Yet, you just dismiss it as all being a waste, in your opinion. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 21 Report Share Posted August 21 15 hours ago, User said: Again, I already told you. It helps if you actually respond directly to what I say. For as much as Ukraine has to sacrifice to move troops here... the same goes for Russia having to sacrifice to move troops to counter... You presented this not as a proposal, but as a done deal, as if Germany cut the funding. You said: "And now some countries are withdrawing their support to ukraine , germany being one of them" Except, Germany has not withdrawn anything yet. You presented this as present tense, not future plans... maybe. I have corrected you every step of the way, and it is such an obvious fact and silly at this point that you have not conceded that you were wrong. I am not here to quibble over your thoughts on the F-16s delivered... it was your characterization that nothing was being sent anymore; this was just one example to show you that military equipment was indeed still flowing into Ukraine. My point was and is that you characterized this as if it were present tense... when it is a proposal in the works for 2025. Nevermind, that Europe has been working on other ways to help fund things with the frozen Russian assets as well. You presented this as if, yet again, your all doom and gloom outlook on this, that somehow this was the end for them. Hell, you did not originally say they were cutting funding in half either, you presented this more vaguely to start as if they were stopping all funding. I have posted sources as well. To the point I have made, that your opinion is rather meaningless compared to what Ukraine thinks and has a strategy for. They are the ones on the ground fighting this every single day. I gave you a source explaining their motivations and strategy. That is not my opinion. Yet, you just dismiss it as all being a waste, in your opinion. Fair enough...i will respond directly to your what you say.... It is not the same at all, ALL of Ukraine's forces are deployed in Ukraine....Russia has a vast amount of troops positioned else where in Russia that it could move, free from any threat. Ukraine can not do that... It is a done deal...already approved by the german government... Quote Germany is planning to nearly halve military aid for Ukraine next year, from around €8bn (£6.7bn; $8.7bn) to around €4bn, according to a draft budget approved by the government. The German government will stop new military aid to Ukraine as part of the ruling coalition's plan to reduce spending, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) reported on Saturday. https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-halt-new-ukraine-military-aid-report-war-russia/ https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kr91zqp0lo As for other countries , i said they are not pulling their weight, including Canada, and others....I also said in a question form how long will it be before others decide to cut their aid packages...As Germany already has... Again this has already been passed in their parliament...it is a done deal... Your 100 % right my initial comments were wrong, Germany is not stopping all aid, but rather 50 % of it...And will begin using frozen Russian assets to fund Ukraine... Aid packages are being sent...I gave you a source from the Ukrainian military they wished the aid would come faster, and in larger packages....the fact they have addressed this at the NATO hq, with the US and other nations they gave a long list of equipment they have asked for to allow them to go on the offensive....most of that equipment has not been actions...and don't let a few F-16's fool you into thinking these aircraft are going to turn things around for Ukraine becasue they won't, they are just enough to show people like you that aid is coming in...Have you seen any new tanks, new IFV, anti tank weapons..... what i have seen is a few more air defence systems, some new SPA, shit tonnes of arty/ rocket ammo..not in numbers that will allow them to go on the offensive.. YOU may be happy with current support being provided....But at it's current capacity all we are doing is leading them on, as Ukrainian forces get weaker... I asked you do you think Ukraine can win this with the current level of NATO support ? Ukraine is losing territory every day....thats not my doom and gloom opinion thats fact... Again i have admitted that my original statement of Germany was stopping all aid was false...they are cutting aid by 50 % , already approved in their government. 100 % correct my opinion is meaniless on this topic as all the decisions are being made in Ukraine. And yet here we are discussing it on a discussion forum, that will have NO effect on the outcome of any battles in Ukraine. Anything we discuss on this forum will result in zero influence in any topic globally. I might add that really no one opinions here on this forum is going to affect the ukraine conflict...And if we were to stop discussing things that we don't have influence on we could shut the political forum down and start talking about my personal life which is really kind of boring... But Thats not stopping us from discussing the entire thing... thats what a forum is for.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 21 Report Share Posted August 21 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: It is not the same at all, ALL of Ukraine's forces are deployed in Ukraine....Russia has a vast amount of troops positioned else where in Russia that it could move, free from any threat. Ukraine can not do that... Except, ALL of the Ukraine forces are not committed to the existing borders where the fighting was any more than Russian forces are. For all the forces Russia has, it was ill-prepared to deal with something like this, and it is having to scramble to respond. Even the sources you provided explained how Russia was pulling units off the front from several positions to try to respond to this. So, no, it was not just a matter of Russia has forces in Russia that were deployed like there was zero impact on their existing war efforts. 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: It is a done deal...already approved by the german government... Um... I am not great here at digging into the procedural process of where this is at exactly, but the sources you continue to provide say: "Germany is planning... draft budget" Yet, you say it is a done deal. Even then, the latest news: German chancellor says Ukraine aid will continue despite savings push “We will be Ukraine’s biggest national supporter in Europe,” Scholz told reporters during a visit to the Moldovan capital. https://www.politico.eu/article/olaf-scholz-germany-ukraine-aid-continue-war-russia/ Looks like more equipment too: https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/08/20/germany-affirms-ukraine-military-aid-amid-budget-maneuvering/ "Among the equipment the government reaffirmed it would send by the end of the year are two additional IRIS-T SLM air defense systems; two IRIS-T SLS launchers; ten Gepard anti-aircraft guns; 16 Panzerhaubitze 2000 howitzers as well as Zuzana and RCH 155 self-propelled howitzers; combat drones; several thousand rounds of artillery ammunition and ammunition for armored vehicles, and a batch of 30 Leopard 1A5 tanks." The point being, your notion that somehow Germany was no longer committed to this war effort doesn't seem to be accurate at all. 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: I asked you do you think Ukraine can win this with the current level of NATO support ? Ukraine is losing territory every day....thats not my doom and gloom opinion thats fact... Yes, Russia can't keep this up forever as compared to Ukraine. The amount of land they are losing, as it has been repeatedly pointed out to you, would take a lifetime for them ever actually to conquer Ukraine. You and I will be dead before then. And yet again, here you are going on about land... when Ukraine just captured more land from Russia in 2 weeks than Russia has taken all year. So... I guess you should be worried about Russia being conquered now, right? 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: thats what a forum is for.... My point, was that I have provided you a source explaining that Ukraine has a goal and strategy with what they are doing... you are free to have all the opinions you want on this, but it is not my opinion when I am giving you the facts to answer the doom and gloom you are pushing on here and the opinion you are pushing on here that this is just a waste. Clearly, it is not just a waste at all that Ukraine is doing this. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, User said: Except, ALL of the Ukraine forces are not committed to the existing borders where the fighting was any more than Russian forces are. For all the forces Russia has, it was ill-prepared to deal with something like this, and it is having to scramble to respond. Even the sources you provided explained how Russia was pulling units off the front from several positions to try to respond to this. So, no, it was not just a matter of Russia has forces in Russia that were deployed like there was zero impact on their existing war efforts. Um... I am not great here at digging into the procedural process of where this is at exactly, but the sources you continue to provide say: "Germany is planning... draft budget" Yet, you say it is a done deal. Even then, the latest news: German chancellor says Ukraine aid will continue despite savings push “We will be Ukraine’s biggest national supporter in Europe,” Scholz told reporters during a visit to the Moldovan capital. https://www.politico.eu/article/olaf-scholz-germany-ukraine-aid-continue-war-russia/ Looks like more equipment too: https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/08/20/germany-affirms-ukraine-military-aid-amid-budget-maneuvering/ "Among the equipment the government reaffirmed it would send by the end of the year are two additional IRIS-T SLM air defense systems; two IRIS-T SLS launchers; ten Gepard anti-aircraft guns; 16 Panzerhaubitze 2000 howitzers as well as Zuzana and RCH 155 self-propelled howitzers; combat drones; several thousand rounds of artillery ammunition and ammunition for armored vehicles, and a batch of 30 Leopard 1A5 tanks." The point being, your notion that somehow Germany was no longer committed to this war effort doesn't seem to be accurate at all. Yes, Russia can't keep this up forever as compared to Ukraine. The amount of land they are losing, as it has been repeatedly pointed out to you, would take a lifetime for them ever actually to conquer Ukraine. You and I will be dead before then. And yet again, here you are going on about land... when Ukraine just captured more land from Russia in 2 weeks than Russia has taken all year. So... I guess you should be worried about Russia being conquered now, right? My point, was that I have provided you a source explaining that Ukraine has a goal and strategy with what they are doing... you are free to have all the opinions you want on this, but it is not my opinion when I am giving you the facts to answer the doom and gloom you are pushing on here and the opinion you are pushing on here that this is just a waste. Clearly, it is not just a waste at all that Ukraine is doing this. ALL of Ukraine's forces are tasked in this conflict, either on the front line, held in reserve to regroup, rearm, or along the borders, most their reserve forces have been deployed to this russian incursion what little they had. along with many brigades that were already on the front lines...this incursion is more than 1000 men as first reported it involves more than 7 brigades...thats alot to pull off the front lines already stretched thin...and being pushed back daily... Russia has huge reserve and division size units posted around the Russia countryside...Why they have not been deployed nobody knows as of yet...And lets be clear Ukraine borders are just as porous as Russia is if you look at the units posted around the remainder of Ukraines borders, they are or were matched number for number...Now that Ukraine planed this incursion...which was to force russia to use troops to reinforce it's borders, hopefully from Ukraines front lines....It is also going to force Ukraine to match man for man along it's borders...i wonder where those troops are coming from... Yes Russia is scrambling to stem the bleeding....here are the facts Russia has a huge manpower advantage in other areas of the country...NOBODY knows why a huge counter attack has not happened as of yet....but don't act like it is not coming...or not a course of action... Draft budget already approved by their parliament, Don't take it out of context..... Draft budgets don't been to get parliamentary approval becasue they are drafts....unless thats the plan they are going with.... ...as they are working on a deal to use 50 bil in Russian assets... Yes aid will continue 50 % of the other half of the aid is still going to arrive.... Yes more equipment is going to arrive, certainly the Ukrainians can final get to go on the offensive right, or would this just about cover the losses they have been having....30 LeoIa5, i mean come on man, you know that is a joke right...be like sending over M-60A2 tanks...It's junk, Captured T-72 are much better, and these tanks were promised last year , but are just coming out of refit...just to get them to run... I'll ask you again do you think that Ukraine can win this conflict on current NATO supply ? You've said this already along with other on here NATO is not providing enough supplies for ukraine to go on the offensive....Ukraine it self has said this over and over in the media....It's not doom and gloom from me it is from Ukraine... At no point did i suggest German is no longer committed, what i said is Germany is cutting back it aid by 50 %... Yes it is your opinion becasue you are only telling half the story here...Ukraine has been asking for more supplies of arty, tanks, IFV, AMMO, etc... from more than a year now...Ukraine is barely holding Russia back, meaning the amount of NATO support is in the negative to sustain combat operations....Russia is gaining ground in almost the entire front....a month ago you guys were saying that Russia could not sustain these losses forever...well apparently they are still at it...and still gaining ground....You guys act like this is not costing Ukraine anything....when it is costing them huge Yes Ukraine has taken a small chunk out of Russia...you think this is going to take years to get back...Perhaps it will but Ukraine will have a cost attached to all of that....What i don't get is if your barely holding ground before the incursion why would you weaken the front lines even more "WHAT do you think Ukraine is going to get from this incursion" here is what Ukraine has said in the media....to get a better seat at the negotiating table.." Putin replied their will be no talks while Ukraine has Russian territory....They want Russia to reposition front line troops which they have done some what...but not 7 brigades worth as ukraine has done...SO no real strategic advantages, and very little tactical advantages...Whats the advantage...they hold some Russian territory, that really holds what value....it is a temporary Moral boaster... Edited August 22 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 12 hours ago, Army Guy said: and being pushed back daily... Right... so your big plan is for them to just keep doing the same old thing? They were losing ground on the front lines regardless of what they did here. Sending these men back to those same front lines would have marginal benefit. They have been able to take a massive amount of land from Russia now and are forcing Russia to adapt to them. The war is going to be fought here or on the existing front lines either way. 12 hours ago, Army Guy said: Why they have not been deployed nobody knows as of yet... I am pretty sure someone knows... likely the same reason when America goes to war in various places we don't literally put all 2 million of our forces there. That takes money, resources, and leaves you vulnerable in other places. The simple reality is that Russia has suffered massive losses. While they have not mobilized their entire military... I don't think they can. They can barely mobilize the forces to keep up with the losses they have now. They are using mercenaries, conscripts, prisoners, having to scrape up the men to feed into the meat grinder. Thier military today is nothing compared to what it was before this war. I think I read from last year they had already lost something like 80% of their ground forces from their entire military. Just like our military, not everyone is ground forces, or combat infantry. Most serve some kind of support or logistics roles in other fields. So, no, I think you are wildly over estimating just how much man power Russia is sitting on that they could deploy. That is exactly why Putin has not forcefully retaken the Kursk region as well. You make it sound like he just has some massive military sitting around Moscow picking their noses... and who knows why Putin has not sent them down there to just finish Ukraine off. Yeah, right. 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: Draft budget I am not taking anything out of context here, I am reading it. You keep saying this is a done deal... but that is not the language being used. 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: I'll ask you again do you think that Ukraine can win this conflict on current NATO supply ? Is this rhetorical? I just answered this already. 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: Yes it is your opinion becasue you are only telling half the story here... It is not my story. You are here saying this is a waste, I am telling you Ukraine thinks otherwise and I gave you their reasons why. The irony is that your repeated arguments on here have been all about how much land Russia is taking from Ukraine, and now when Ukraine takes massive amounts of land from Russia... it is a waste! No value here! No Strategy! OMG, Ukraine should have just sent those men to the front for more of the same. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 22 Report Share Posted August 22 An indepth look at the war in Ukraine from both countries view....he is not the best on the web, but he brings in many points that no one is talking about...and he goes into great detail with viable sources. 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 17 hours ago, Army Guy said: An indepth look at the war in Ukraine from both countries view....he is not the best on the web, but he brings in many points that no one is talking about...and he goes into great detail with viable sources. This video is also 11 days old now. 11 days. Ukraine continues to hold Kursk. It continues to cut off Russians, destroying their bridges. Ukraine continues to destroy Russian forces there. He certainly doesn't paint as gloom and doom of a picture of this as you have been either about this incursion. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 On 8/21/2024 at 7:28 PM, Army Guy said: ALL of Ukraine's forces are tasked in this conflict, either on the front line, held in reserve to regroup, rearm, or along the borders, most their reserve forces have been deployed to this russian incursion what little they had. along with many brigades that were already on the front lines...this incursion is more than 1000 men as first reported it involves more than 7 brigades...thats alot to pull off the front lines already stretched thin...and being pushed back daily... Russia has huge reserve and division size units posted around the Russia countryside...Why they have not been deployed nobody knows as of yet...And lets be clear Ukraine borders are just as porous as Russia is if you look at the units posted around the remainder of Ukraines borders, they are or were matched number for number...Now that Ukraine planed this incursion...which was to force russia to use troops to reinforce it's borders, hopefully from Ukraines front lines....It is also going to force Ukraine to match man for man along it's borders...i wonder where those troops are coming from... Yes Russia is scrambling to stem the bleeding....here are the facts Russia has a huge manpower advantage in other areas of the country...NOBODY knows why a huge counter attack has not happened as of yet....but don't act like it is not coming...or not a course of action... Draft budget already approved by their parliament, Don't take it out of context..... Draft budgets don't been to get parliamentary approval becasue they are drafts....unless thats the plan they are going with.... ...as they are working on a deal to use 50 bil in Russian assets... Yes aid will continue 50 % of the other half of the aid is still going to arrive.... Yes more equipment is going to arrive, certainly the Ukrainians can final get to go on the offensive right, or would this just about cover the losses they have been having....30 LeoIa5, i mean come on man, you know that is a joke right...be like sending over M-60A2 tanks...It's junk, Captured T-72 are much better, and these tanks were promised last year , but are just coming out of refit...just to get them to run... I'll ask you again do you think that Ukraine can win this conflict on current NATO supply ? You've said this already along with other on here NATO is not providing enough supplies for ukraine to go on the offensive....Ukraine it self has said this over and over in the media....It's not doom and gloom from me it is from Ukraine... At no point did i suggest German is no longer committed, what i said is Germany is cutting back it aid by 50 %... Yes it is your opinion becasue you are only telling half the story here...Ukraine has been asking for more supplies of arty, tanks, IFV, AMMO, etc... from more than a year now...Ukraine is barely holding Russia back, meaning the amount of NATO support is in the negative to sustain combat operations....Russia is gaining ground in almost the entire front....a month ago you guys were saying that Russia could not sustain these losses forever...well apparently they are still at it...and still gaining ground....You guys act like this is not costing Ukraine anything....when it is costing them huge Yes Ukraine has taken a small chunk out of Russia...you think this is going to take years to get back...Perhaps it will but Ukraine will have a cost attached to all of that....What i don't get is if your barely holding ground before the incursion why would you weaken the front lines even more "WHAT do you think Ukraine is going to get from this incursion" here is what Ukraine has said in the media....to get a better seat at the negotiating table.." Putin replied their will be no talks while Ukraine has Russian territory....They want Russia to reposition front line troops which they have done some what...but not 7 brigades worth as ukraine has done...SO no real strategic advantages, and very little tactical advantages...Whats the advantage...they hold some Russian territory, that really holds what value....it is a temporary Moral boaster... I skimmed through this word salad, and as per usual, Army Guy once again understates the significance of the Ukrainian offensive into Kursk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 On 8/21/2024 at 3:09 PM, Army Guy said: Ukraine is losing territory every day....thats not my doom and gloom opinion thats fact... Yes, it took the Russians three weeks to capture the outhouse at Yuri's farm, but they finally made a breakthrough. next up: Yuri's chicken coop. Yuri's house is fortified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, User said: This video is also 11 days old now. 11 days. Ukraine continues to hold Kursk. It continues to cut off Russians, destroying their bridges. Ukraine continues to destroy Russian forces there. He certainly doesn't paint as gloom and doom of a picture of this as you have been either about this incursion. So are you saying that none of the points he raised are valid, or that this video is no longer valid... Yes Ukraine continues to hold Kursk, I don't think anyone is debating that fact, what i have questioned is for how long, and at what price ? But i guess no one is allow to question or submit an opinion that is different from the mainstream. What can i say, i guess only time will tell if this incursion has been worth the time, effort, and resources they put in to it...I'm not the only one that has questioned this incursion many others in NATO and other sources have as well.... This is but one small part of this conflict a win here may or may not effect the entire outcome of this conflict....that is not doom and gloom thats a fact...What is still unclear is what is Russia going to do , if anything...Unconfirmed reports are saying Belarus is now send thousands of troops to Ukraine border, if true what is going to be Ukraines response... https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/21/world/europe/russian-response-ukraine-incursion.html https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/belarus-lukashenko-says-nearly-third-army-sent-ukraine-border-belta-reports-2024-08-18/ Edited August 23 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 4 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: I skimmed through this word salad, and as per usual, Army Guy once again understates the significance of the Ukrainian offensive into Kursk. Please do tell , DUI what is the significance of the incursion....And i did not understate the significance i out right said it was not the best use of resources at this period of time, when Russia is make gains in territory.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 3 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: Yes, it took the Russians three weeks to capture the outhouse at Yuri's farm, but they finally made a breakthrough. next up: Yuri's chicken coop. Yuri's house is fortified. You've been saying that for over a couple of months now, I'm afraid they are well past the outhouse...why is it that none of the other media outlets describe Russian gains as insignificant...Have you not been following the battles....Yes Ukraine is making huge gains in the Kursk region...but Russia is also making gains elsewhere due to Ukraine pulling forces off the lines for this incursion... Quote In recent days, Russian troops have made some significant gains to the north-west of Donetsk and claim to have captured the small town of Niu-York. In response, Ukraine has ordered the evacuation of the city of Pokrovsk, with a local military official telling residents that Russian forces were "rapidly approaching". https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682 Quote Ukrainian authorities have ordered the evacuation of a key city in the Donbas region as Russian forces continue to make gains in the east of the country, despite Ukraine's ongoing offensive into Russia's Kursk region. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr40wwzd4gyo Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 21 hours ago, Army Guy said: An indepth look at the war in Ukraine from both countries view....he is not the best on the web, but he brings in many points that no one is talking about...and he goes into great detail with viable sources. Thats all you got DUI is a downvote on the video, did you even watch it, what did you not like , to much detail for you, are you afraid to discuss it, Or is it you just don't like my opinions, you know there is a ignore function right just for that.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted August 23 Report Share Posted August 23 17 minutes ago, Army Guy said: You've been saying that for over a couple of months now, I'm afraid they are well past the outhouse... How would you know? Yuri has quite the parcel.of land. Its also situated on rough terrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 24 Report Share Posted August 24 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: So are you saying that none of the points he raised are valid, or that this video is no longer valid... No, I am pointing out how long this has been going on for and you are looking at something from 11 days ago. 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: But i guess no one is allow to question or submit an opinion that is different from the mainstream. Asking a question is not all you are doing on here. 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: This is but one small part of this conflict a win here may or may not effect the entire outcome of this conflict....that is not doom and gloom thats a fact...What is still unclear is what is Russia going to do , if anything...Unconfirmed reports are saying Belarus is now send thousands of troops to Ukraine border, if true what is going to be Ukraines response... No, that one tid bit is not doom and gloom, the totality of your comments on here are along that theme. Their response has been to shrug their shoulders. They have been posturing since the start of the war with troops along the border and they already had a significant amount of their small military there. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted August 24 Report Share Posted August 24 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: ... Yes Ukraine continues to hold Kursk, I don't think anyone is debating that fact, what i have questioned is for how long, and at what price ? But i guess no one is allow to question or submit an opinion that is different from the mainstream. .... The Ukrainian Forces do not hold Kursk. I read quickly through this thread. AG, I largely agree with you. There is a huge disconnect between the American MSM and reality. What a thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted August 25 Report Share Posted August 25 I think this "incursion" is a ploy to enhance Comic-boy's position in the coming peace talks this fall. IMO...the Russians should stomp on these Ukrainian forces there AND utterly destroy what's left of Ukrainian infrastructure about 2 weeks before the negotiations begin in earnest. That would remove any bargaining power Comic-boy has. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 25 Report Share Posted August 25 3 hours ago, Nationalist said: I think this "incursion" is a ploy to enhance Comic-boy's position in the coming peace talks this fall. IMO...the Russians should stomp on these Ukrainian forces there AND utterly destroy what's left of Ukrainian infrastructure about 2 weeks before the negotiations begin in earnest. That would remove any bargaining power Comic-boy has. LOL, and when we point out that you are here once again cheering Russia on, are you going to be honest enough to admit it or backtrack and try to claim you are not doing that? Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted August 25 Report Share Posted August 25 3 minutes ago, User said: LOL, and when we point out that you are here once again cheering Russia on, are you going to be honest enough to admit it or backtrack and try to claim you are not doing that? It's the logical military move right now. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 25 Report Share Posted August 25 23 minutes ago, Nationalist said: It's the logical military move right now. You cheering on Russia is not logical. I don't know what your twisted motives are for supporting them here. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted August 25 Report Share Posted August 25 27 minutes ago, User said: You cheering on Russia is not logical. I don't know what your twisted motives are for supporting them here. This "war" has nothing to do with me. Has nothing to do with you either. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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