Pierre Poilievre: A One Trick Pony -- Or Are WE All Getting Tricked?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Can you point to the book, article, op ed...anything at all, that might corroborate this steaming pile of hooey?

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/the-tories-passed-a-measure-designed-to-catch-liberal-scandals-thirteen-years-later-it-caught-lavscam

Literally, the first action of the new Conservative government in 2006 was to inaugurate an independent prosecutor's office to prevent future Sponsorship Scandals. Now, that act is at the centre of events apparently showing an attempt by the government of Justin Trudeau to halt a criminal prosecution for political reasons.

 

So - you gonna appologize now? That took all of 2 seconds to look up and was common knowledge for years.

You're a lying sack of shit who cares more about defending justin trudeau and his libearls than he does about truth OR accountability.  You're happy to see the country burn as long as your liberals are in power - to the point where you'd lie over something like this. EVERYONE knew that it was harper's law that stopped this.  MANY MANY articles and commentaries have been written on it.

Trudeau dismantled half of what harper did but harper did so much he only had time for half, and what's left has been holding him accountable since.

You wonder why everyone here is so fast to note you're a dishonest person - go re read this next time you wonder why.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Legato said:

The Trudeau government’s suspension last month of a law forcing aboriginal chiefs and band councils to fess up about their spending reflects a big step backward for democratic accountability on reserves./

Another example of how feeble Harper's attempts at establishing accountability are.  Maybe Poilievre will get it right. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

So - you gonna appologize now?

For what?

“Bend the rules, you will be punished; break the law, you will be charged; abuse the public trust, you will go to prison,” Stephen Harper said at the time.

So who went to prison? Like I said maybe Poilievre will get it right. But I'm not holding my breath. Ottawa sucks at doing anything about corruption. Its like climate change, no one's heart is really in to it.

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

For what?

 

Oh that's right, you're a leftie.  decency and shame simply aren't concepts you'll understand.  Oh well - too late to teach you and too late to yell at your parents for raising you like this.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Another example of how feeble Harper's attempts at establishing accountability are.  Maybe Poilievre will get it right. 

Trudeau dismantles accountability protocols and reduces transparency  = Harper's fault.

Sigh, I take it this is the kind of thinking that keeps you voting for him.  Sometimes it's hard to look at people like you and think "this is the best we could do with 4 billion years of evolution to work with".

[SpankyMcFarland]

The challenge will be managing his voters: centrist newbies, often former Liberals, who want lower rents and economic change generally and will have very little patience; traditional Tories; libertarians; the Christian crowd; and the obstreperous MAGA crew screaming about vaccines, convoys, QAnon etc. who’ll have to be kept as quiet as possible after the election so as not to frighten the rest. 

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The challenge will be managing his voters: centrist newbies, often former Liberals, who want lower rents and economic change generally and will have very little patience; traditional Tories; libertarians; the Christian crowd; and the obstreperous MAGA crew screaming about vaccines, convoys, QAnon etc. who’ll have to be kept as quiet as possible after the election so as not to frighten the rest. 

Ahhh - such a non bias opinion   lol!  well i'm sure you who are on the farther left of the spectrum will be largely disappointed no matter what he does.

But- the rest of that stuff is actually pretty easy in the short term. Cutting immigration by 60 percent from next year's projected levels will achieve all of that and then some and all will be happy. Slap in some spending freezes and cut the cbc and you'll have interest rates and inflation where they should be. Easy peazy

But - while it's going to be easy to perform in the short term, longer term the answers require more effort or the problems will begin to resurface fast after about 3 years.  Those tactics will buy time - but they're a bandaid that won't last more than 1 term before the problems resurface and while you might get a second term out of it the problems would not be solvable in the second term unless you did the extra work in the first term to set up for a permanent solution.

So - if he's just interested in a two term prime ministership with no desire to fix canada's problem he can do that easy, but i'm hoping he'll put in the effort and really start to fix the mess the ndp and libs made for the long haul.

[Michael Hardner]

60% immigration cut?

Believe that when I see it...

 

[Zeitgeist]

On 2/15/2024 at 12:52 PM, Eddy said:

Pierre Polievre was like a breath of fresh Spring air blowing through the opened window of a sealed, dark, and stale bedroom when he first caught my attention a couple of years ago. I especially admired the way that he handled himself -- or more appropriately, how he handled Justin Trudeau -- in their parliamentary exchanges. The PM would repeatedly fold like a house of cards...and it could actually painful watching Trudeau lose by default most each and every time.

But my initial surge of enthusiasm ebbed rather swiftly as I watched PP's cocky self-assured mis-steps that ensued: his enthusiasm for Bitcoin...his deliberately going out of his way to serve coffee to members of the Freedom Convey...his sudden newly-found arrogance with members of the press...and on and on. The man sure knows no peers as knowing how to grab headlines and make his presence know, alright -- but what will happen when he's elected prime minister of the land, and has nobody to bait and to blame above him...?

Te expression of "all sizzle and no steak" immediately comes to mind.

Still in all, what choice do we weary Canadians have, otherwise...? Four more years of a Trudeau-Singh oligarchy to suffer under, as parliament merely foregoes the expected, lending additional years of life to that particular "deal with the devil"...? Surely we all deserve better.

PP was right about the Convoy and Bitcoin, which is surging back.  His execution on Bitcoin may not be exactly right, because even cryptocurrency can largely be tracked and controlled, but his intentions were correct. The theme of his leadership is that the people are in charge of government and government needs to stop poking its nose where it doesn’t belong.  The Canadian government needs major downsizing, because it’s a self-serving overspending colossus that increasingly tries to tell us what we deserve and how we should live.  

Edited February 17 by Zeitgeist

[Legato]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

Another example of how feeble Harper's attempts at establishing accountability are.  Maybe Poilievre will get it right. 

If it was so feeble then why did the Prime Charlatan kill it?

[Zeitgeist]

20 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

1. We are not Americans. I believe the life of a black Canadian matters. Don't you?

2. I agree. The problems are, that just to reach 2% of GDP will cost 18 billion dollars more than we pay now. How does Mr. Polievre intend to square that with tax cuts. He will also have to deal with the increasing underfunding of healthcare and education. 

3. He will repeal the carbon tax, but then there is the problem of all of those Canadian taxpayers who are going to still want the rebate. What is he going to replace the carbon tax with? Rationing would be the obvious tactic but that leads to things like black markets and corruption. Also, rationing is a lot more expensive to administer. Regardless of how he handles it, he needs to do something to cut emissions. Like the great man said, "Future generations won't care what we say, they will live with the consequences of what we do." 

If the US fails to support the Ukraine, Canada and our allies will have to step up and fill the void. Just like we did for most of the Great War and half of the Second World War. That is going to force Mr. Poilievre to ramp up our assistance to Ukraine in the fight against tyranny. There is no way he is going to be able to reduce the defict and not raise taxes. 

Pierre is going to be appointed Prime Minister in a year and a half. We need to buckle up. It is going to be an expensive ride for the next few years.

 

He should scrap the carbon tax and the rebate and stop funding war in Ukraine, deregulate the oil and gas sector (which will lower fuel and heating prices), scrap all DEI, LGBTQ2SI+ and other special interest programs, reduce the size of government departments by at least 25%, cut funding to the CBC and media in half, reduce immigration levels to about the 250,000 level from the current 500,000 per year, bolster the Charter, and use that additional $18 billion in military spending to make sure we can project hard power to back our foreign policy and sovereignty (I more or less think Dougie has a good spending plan for this on the Defence thread). He should also set limits on deficits.  These policies would at least set up Canada to reign in the government of identity politics and overspending on pet projects.

It would set a course for living within our means and send a message that Canada takes its defence and military obligations seriously. He should do modest tax cuts that are contingent on declining debt levels.  The environmental improvement plan can consist of tax incentives instead of existence taxes and government subsidies of white elephant green projects that produce almost no electricity.  These acts alone would fire up the Canadian economy.

I also suggest a major freeing up of federal and Crown lands, combined with freer zoning, to allow the housing supply to expand, lowering home prices.  Incentivize northern growth. Less self-destructiveness (MAID, legal hard drugs, childless families due to living costs) and more affordability for families. Harper’s tax credits for sports, arts, and other healthy activities were a huge financial boon to families and long-term healthcare costs and productivity. Bring them back.

Edited February 17 by Zeitgeist

[SpankyMcFarland]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Ahhh - such a non bias opinion   lol!  well i'm sure you who are on the farther left of the spectrum will be largely disappointed no matter what he does.

But- the rest of that stuff is actually pretty easy in the short term. Cutting immigration by 60 percent from next year's projected levels will achieve all of that and then some and all will be happy. Slap in some spending freezes and cut the cbc and you'll have interest rates and inflation where they should be. Easy peazy

But - while it's going to be easy to perform in the short term, longer term the answers require more effort or the problems will begin to resurface fast after about 3 years.  Those tactics will buy time - but they're a bandaid that won't last more than 1 term before the problems resurface and while you might get a second term out of it the problems would not be solvable in the second term unless you did the extra work in the first term to set up for a permanent solution.

So - if he's just interested in a two term prime ministership with no desire to fix canada's problem he can do that easy, but i'm hoping he'll put in the effort and really start to fix the mess the ndp and libs made for the long haul.

I wouldn’t consider myself particularly left wing. Chrétien and Mulroney were PMs close to my way of thinking. 

Government will bring its own problems we can’t foresee and Canadian voters are becoming more fractious. All parties are unstable coalitions and we’ve seen the right struggle in Canada with this on several occasions. Most people beyond the National Post crowd will forget about Trudeau in five seconds and want to know what PP has done for them lately. 

 

 

[Perspektiv]

16 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Well, I walked right into that one. Thank you for setting me straight. 

Sorry, nothing irritates me more than those feeling BLM is out to help people like me, vs using shock value and misleading information to make people believe we are under siege, and the police somehow is responsible for it.

If I voice anything, I stop being black somehow. Calling me racist just wouldn't stick. Any movement using shame to silence dissenting voices vs facts, should be questioned more. Not less.

Its literally like blaming mini skirts and sexy attire, for rape. It erases the choice someone made to take advantage of another, just like BLM aims to point fingers for the erosion of their communities which are burning from the inside out.

If slavery was abolished generations ago, what is holding you back? The trauma?

Tell that to the Chinese. The Japanese. 

They are among the highest earning demographics. Most educated. 

Their trauma isn't the same? 

I had so many black peers in the hood, impressed at my diligence regarding my education. I had a strict mother who refused to have me be a statistic.

Many of my peers felt entitled to government money for what was done to them.

Literally knew gang bangers who would go to interviews, doorag baggy jeans red or blue bandana and all, and complain they weren't getting jobs due to their skin color.

All my Asian friends, had parents who likely would kill them for failing in school. Many were refugees from countries destroyed by war.

You're born in Canada, what's stopping you, again?

The issue is cultural. 

Where are the black leaders preaching empowerment vs victimhood? 

Moving forward vs being stuck in the past? 

I didn't have time to feel sorry for myself, which is precisely why I got out of absolute poverty.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Legato said:

If it was so feeble then why did the Prime Charlatan kill it?

Because he could. Harper left the door as wide open as it always was. As evidenced by the fact no one was prevented, caught, arrested, charged, convicted or sent to jail for anything.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

60% immigration cut?

Believe that when I see it...

 

Considering what the projections are for next year that would still put us at double the rate of 2015.  Spread it over 2 years and it's quite doable.

Of course, lefties such as yourself like to pretend it's not possible to excuse the fact the current regime hasn't considered it.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Because he could. Harper left the door as wide open as it always was. As evidenced by the fact no one was prevented, caught, arrested, charged, convicted or sent to jail for anything.

Tell me you know nothing of politics without telling me.

Go on - how could harper have 'closed the door'?  What could harper have done to make it so prime criminal justin couldn't change it?  How exactly do you pass a law that a future prime minister can't change?

Lets face it, you're just a loser who likes to pretend he's something other than a left wing hack with no knowledge.

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

How exactly do you pass a law that a future prime minister can't change?

By treating political corruption as a very  serious crime. Given the divisiveness and political chaos verging on hatred that corruption can cause in our society it should almost be on par with terrorism. Maybe you have to open up the Constitution.

I've also suggested some fairly simple changes to the Lobbying Act that outlaw in-camera lobbying. We could also borrow a page from American governance and install cameras in the PMO. The so-called White House tapes have revealed much that has been quite informative to the American public about the business that conducted in their name behind closed doors.

Bottom line is, we get serious about corruption and stop treating it like we treat...climate change, which is to say very feebly and without any real conviction or courage.

 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

By treating political corruption as a very  serious crime.

 

The question is how does he make it so the next gov't cant' change it.

What's your answer. "Making it serious" doesn't change a thing in that regard.

[eyeball]

Just now, CdnFox said:

The question is how does he make it so the next gov't cant' change it.

Probably something to do with why Trudeau didn't simply suspend our laws against murder and deal with JWR that way.

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

What's your answer. "Making it serious" doesn't change a thing in that regard.

You'll never know till you try.

[eyeball]

This is an interesting read. Apparently Roosevelt started the practice of recording things to prevent 'fake news' - I've been saying for years now that we need to make our governance more transparent to try and dispel the proliferation of conspiracies used to fill in the big blanks between what we know and don't know

Roosevelt was even recorded comparing someone to Hitler. The more things change the more they stay the same.

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/13/528222995/the-shadowy-history-of-secret-white-house-tapes

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

This is an interesting read. Apparently Roosevelt started the practice of recording things to prevent 'fake news' - I've been saying for years now that we need to make our governance more transparent to try and dispel the proliferation of conspiracies used to fill in the big blanks between what we know and don't know

Roosevelt was even recorded comparing someone to Hitler. The more things change the more they stay the same.

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/13/528222995/the-shadowy-history-of-secret-white-house-tapes

Given the siloed way people consume news these days, I’m afraid fake news will only get stronger. 

[Michael Hardner]

35 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Given the siloed way people consume news these days, I’m afraid fake news will only get stronger. 

Diverse news sources are fine, but people forgot how to discern between good and bad information.  And they don't like being challenged either.  

Outrage-bait is the new way, as evidenced by the stories posted here.

[eyeball]

56 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Given the siloed way people consume news these days, I’m afraid fake news will only get stronger. 

I'm not convinced it can't be countered with greater transparency where the most conspiring appears to be rooted - politicians holding their cards too close to their chests with the express purpose of keeping the 4th estate and us, in the dark.

Giving up on something before we've even tried is....feeble.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I wouldn’t consider myself particularly left wing. Chrétien and Mulroney were PMs close to my way of thinking.

These days nobody on the left does.  They would classify castro as a bit of a blue liberal    But - whatever, not entirely germaine to the discussion so i'll let it go

Quote

Government will bring its own problems we can’t foresee and Canadian voters are becoming more fractious. 

and this means what?  Of course circumstances change and the gov't must adapt and move forward - i'm sure harper didn't expect a recession and justin didn't expect covid, and the measure of a gov't is how well they deal with it.

As to being fractious - sure.  Tribalism has run completely out of control in the states and thanks in no small part to trudeau the divisions are showing up here as well and growing - but it is hopeful that PP can do something to at least staunch that wound.  Historically tensions drop when provinces are allowed to run themselves more and so we'll see.

 

Quote

All parties are unstable coalitions and we’ve seen the right struggle in Canada with this on several occasions. Most people beyond the National Post crowd will forget about Trudeau in five seconds and want to know what PP has done for them lately. 

Nah.  The CPC is pretty damn united.  Sure there's a few people with differing opinions but thats' not a problem, it's always been like that. THere's no fractures.  The libs are currently united behind justin (for better or worse) and when he's gone there's some reason to believe they will coalesce around a new leader at least for a while. The old chretienite and martinite feud seems to be in the past.  The dippers are going to have to decide if they're a 'working man's  party' or  a 'woke' party but they won't  be forming gov't or even opposition for a while so it's not that critical.

Hopefully PP will be the exact opposite of justin and will look for ways to bring people together more than split them apart. There will always be issues that divide us but how it's handled by the leadership will determine if we come together or fall apart. So far we've been falling apart.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Probably something to do with why Trudeau didn't simply suspend our laws against murder and deal with JWR that way.

 

Ummm no.  No it has nothing to do with that.  At all.  Like - not even a little bit.

Quote

You'll never know till you try.

Yes - yes you do know. The constitution is such that no law a prime minister can pass is immune to the next one just changing it - which is precisely what justin did.

So - try what.  Tell me what he  should have tried specifically - what should he have done that would have prevented justin from undoing it as he did.  Go on - you're so sure lets hear what specifically he could have done.