Why we need a values test for immigrants.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Ah, so you actually ARE putting a few more conditions on who you want here.

I simply view the open borders as being all part of a general collapse of Western civilization

a cultural revolution has rendered Western countries illegitimate therein

it is occurring everywhere at once, the entire Anglosphere & Western Europe

Canada is already gone, replaced by the Post National State

every aspect of government therein is now utterly corrupted and totally dysfunctional

this is no longer a functioning democracy, the constitution is not in effect

hence invoking conditions is moot

so I am simply moving on to the next phase

which will be surviving in the fallout zone

the judiciary, legal profession, police & military are all compromised

to wit ;  all call signs, all call signs, broken arrow, broken arrow

prepare to be overrun, burn the code books, execute SERE plan, now now now

Edited January 26, 2024 by Dougie93

[TreeBeard]

8 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 

Your under the assumption that this process just consists of a written and oral test, but rather consists of many different checks and balances, such as criminal records form home country, etc etc ...

 

They already do that.  

[BeaverFever]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:51 PM, I am Groot said:

That we don't have one is because the elites long ago decided it was sinful to think our society, our culture, and values, were in any way superior to anyone else out there. That's what's behind the whole idea of multiculturalism, of telling immigrants not to bother changing or integrating but to retain and take pride in their homegrown culture and values. The problem with this silly-assed view is it has no resemblance to reality. It's the view of the elites who jet around the world but only stay in 5-star hotels, and so airily talk about how we're all equal. But we're not. The demonstrations in the streets should tell us that. Our belief in tolerance is not the general belief out there. Even what we consider bigotry or racism is laughably minor compared to the bigotry and racism that is mainstream in most of the countries that are our major sources of immigrants. The spirit of compromise is another strong Canadian cultural trait that many parts of the world don't have in their cultural fabric at all. In much of the world it's "I win, you lose" as much as possible. Between individuals and between groups. 

And the huge numbers of people coming here are coming from countries whose cultures are incredibly corrupt from top to bottom and everywhere in between. That's not something we really want or need to import either.

Look at this story. This demonstrates the degree of blithe, unreasoning hatred for Jews in the Arab world, and the near complete lack of concern for what we in the West would consider civilized behavior. I know there are people here who hate to generalize on an entire people, and I'm sure there are Muslims out there in the wide world who don't hate Jews, but they appear to be a distinct minority. And even the ones not much inclined to rape and murder them seem to be comfortable with applauding those who do. And if you think the survey would be much different if it asked people in Pakistan or Indonesia or Malaysia, well, I have my doubts.

So thanks, but no thanks. I don't want these people in my country. And I don't care if screening would fail to get many. It would get most. These are not terribly sophisticated people. And that's the beauty of it. The more sophisticated you are the less likely you'd be to have the kind of mentality we don't want.

A recent survey of 8,000 Arabs across 16 Middle East and North African nations, including Jordan, showed overwhelming support for Hamas’s Oct. 7 massacre. Around two-thirds of respondents said the terror attacks in southern Israel were a “legitimate resistance operation”; 19% said that the massacre was a “somewhat flawed but legitimate resistance operation.”

How about we subject everyone in Canada including citizens to the same values test and eject anyone who fails?

 

I meant we’ve seen at least SOME Canadians on this forum support massacre of Palestinians as punishment for Oct7 and that’s really not so different when you consider that those who support Oct 7 consider it punishment for earlier Israeli misdeeds. It’s really the same mentality. And when you look at some of the uglier fringes of the right like Andrew Tate and Patriot Front and the like those aren’t really western values. 
 

Lastly I’ll say that most Irish, along with Southern, Eastern and Central European immi , if they came here prior to WW2 or even shortly thereafter, were similarly seen as poor, primitive, crude, unfamiliar with our democratic principles, etc. And they also brought their ethnic identities and w them and had demonstrations and riots and so forth. Everything you’re saying now has been said for centuries about immigrants from Italy, Greece, Poland, etc etc and even the Irish.   And of course the Jews. 

[I am Groot]

32 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

They already do that.  

And that's all they do. That needs to change.

[Army Guy]

46 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

They already do that.  

It is all the processes together that you'd be able to tell if someone is lying...that and experience from the operator.

[I am Groot]

20 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

How about we subject everyone in Canada including citizens to the same values test and eject anyone who fails?

Sure. How? Oh, we can't.

So, don't ask for the impossible. And don't reject the possible because we can't do the impossible.

20 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

I meant we’ve seen at least SOME Canadians on this forum support massacre of Palestinians as punishment for Oct7 and that’s really not so different when you consider that those who support Oct 7 consider it punishment for earlier Israeli misdeeds.

I don't give a damn what the Palestinians think or want or do or say. That argument has been on for a thousand years. Let it stay over there. The problem I have is people bringing it here.

20 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Lastly I’ll say that most Irish, along with Southern, Eastern and Central European immi , if they came here prior to WW2 or even shortly thereafter, were similarly seen as poor, primitive, crude, unfamiliar with our democratic principles, etc.

They weren't nearly as different from what we were back then as the Arabs are now. How many Irish, Italians, Portuguese, and Greeks back then would have gleefully chopped off a woman's breast while raping her and then toss it to their laughing buddies to play catch with? How many would have cut off a child's limbs and laughed with delight at their screams? Even the Nazis didn't behave so gleefully when they were slaughtering Jews and Slavs.

20 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

And they also brought their ethnic identities and w them and had demonstrations and riots and so forth. Everything you’re saying now has been said for centuries about immigrants from Italy, Greece, Poland, etc etc and even the Irish.   And of course the Jews. 

And none of them were Muslims. And none of them came here at a time when there was such a small world they could easily jet back home to visit relatives, could be in daily communication with those back home, could read the papers, watch TV from back home, could stay immersed in the culture from back home and ensure their children and children's children did too? None of them would say "I am a Muslim first, and a Canadian or whatever second." And even if they would say "I am a Catholic first and a Canadian second" so what? Our culture wasn't at war with Catholicism. Not the Western version, anyway. No Catholics were hoping to establish a worldwide religious theocracy. No Catholics prayed for the death and destruction of the West. 

My neighbor was born here. His parents came here and had a life here, but never integrated. On retirement, they returned to their old country to live with their Canadian pensions. When he retires, soon, he will return to the old country too. He was born here but he's not a Canadian even though he has a passport that says that. But he has a second passport and that's what holds his loyalty. There are a LOT of such immigrants and children of immigrants here from the middle east. And a growing number from Asia, too. They don't see Canada as a land to hold their loyalties, just a place to make money.

Because, you see, we never ask. We don't screen people. We don't ask them any questions. We don't try to select people who would be the best fit for us, maybe people tired of the old ways, tired of the small mindedness and religious based cultures and looking for a different way. We could. But we don't.

Edited January 27, 2024 by I am Groot

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

How about we subject everyone in Canada including citizens to the same values test and eject anyone who fails?

 

You realize you'd be one of the ones leaving right?

Quote

I meant we’ve seen at least SOME Canadians on this forum support massacre of Palestinians as punishment for Oct7 and that’s really not so different when you consider that those who support Oct 7 consider it punishment for earlier Israeli misdeeds.

Hogwash. This isn't some punishment for some percieved injustice some time ago etc. this was an act of war and now the two groups are in conflict until someone loses

And i don't recall anyone saying it's 'punishment' - people say they are getting what they asked for by allowing hamas to hide behind them. I think everyone would be just as happy if hamas came out into the open and let the citizens live but  they don't. And this is the price you pay for attacking civvies like that and then getting in front of your soldiers.

Quote

Lastly I’ll say that most Irish, along with Southern, Eastern and Central European immi , if they came here prior to WW2 or even shortly thereafter, were similarly seen as poor, primitive, crude, unfamiliar with our democratic principles, etc. And they also brought their ethnic identities and w them and had demonstrations and riots and so forth.

Severely stretching the truth there  and i think you know it. Especially 'riots' - which year were the great irish riots again? And yeah those russian mennonites are such a roudy violent bunch...

Here's the real difference. All of those groups agreed to put their own cultures on the backburner and integrate as best they could as fast as they could. And they did.

[myata]

removed

Edited January 27, 2024 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

Not a new idea.  Kellie Leitch 2017

[Dougie93]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Lastly I’ll say that most Irish , if they came here prior to WW2 or even shortly thereafter, were similarly seen as poor, primitive, crude, unfamiliar with our democratic principles, etc.

only the Papists

while the Loyalist Ulster Scots Irish were the Canadian ruling class

Canada is a giant Ulster ;  Irish v. Irish

Confederation itself being founded in the face of the Fenian invaders of 1866

the Romanist savages come from America

poised to take Toronto, upon decimating the Queen's Own Rifles at Ridgeway

Cuidich 'n Righ

Edited January 27, 2024 by Dougie93

[I am Groot]

On 1/27/2024 at 6:58 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Not a new idea.  Kellie Leitch 2017

Granted. But while the majority of ordinary people supported such a view, even then, I think more would now, and would believe it more strongly. Recent events have shown the downside of allowing millions of people come here from countries with ancient hatreds, often supported by religion, without doing a thing to screen them for those hatreds.

I just had lunch the other day with a very, middle class  Liberal woman, still a strong supporter of Justin Trudeau. Yes, there are such people, and still a strong supporter of immigration. But we got to talking about other things and she said nothing on Earth would ever persuade her to visit India given its treatment of women and the way women are looked down on and endangered there. Same goes for most of the Muslim world.

I pointed out we were bringing millions of people from those countries here and that gave her pause.

As it should.

Now I grant you there is no way to do this with 500k people coming over every year. But that number has no economic or even demographic logic behind it. We should cut the number to 150k for now, and just look for the cream of the crop. And they should be interviewed and given a version of a personality test and marked according to how adaptable and open they are to our values and ideas.

We should also stop just taking whoever applies. We know who we want. Support industries and associations to go out and look for them. We want highly skilled people who will add to our GDP per person, not lower it. There are unhappy doctors and nurses in Ireland and the UK, and unemployed tradesmen in Portugal, Spain and Italy - places that supplied a ton of such people to us in the 1950s. Why aren't we trying to recruit?