Poll Shows Canadian Immigration Attitudes Hardening - even among immigrants

[CdnFox]

So this is across all parties and even among immigrants themselves.  Virtually every group no matter how you break it down feels that immigration is too high.

Again - justin has access to these numbers, i just don't get why he insists on racking immigration up even higher.

 

https://dominionreview.ca/abacus-poll-shows-canadian-immigration-attitudes-hardening/

 

Majority of Canadians think federal immigration target is too high:

• Way too high (40%)
• Too high (27%)
• About right (23%)
• Too low (2%)
• Don’t know (7%)

Majorities in all regions surveyed think immigration is too high:

• British Columbia (64%)
• Alberta (70%)
• Saskatchewan/Manitoba (67%)
• Ontario (70%)
• Québec (60%)
• Atlantic Canada (68%)

Majority of both immigrants and native-born think immigration is too high: 

• Born in Canada (68%)
• Born outside Canada (62%)

All age groups, both sexes agree that immigration is too high:

• 18-29 (54%)
• 30-44 (64%)
• 45-59 (71%)
• 60+ (73%)
• Male (65%)
• Female (69%)

Voters from all four major parties want lower immigration: 

• Conservative (82%)
• Liberal (61%)
• NDP (63%)
• Bloc Québecois (80%)

* The Abacus survey does not include the Green Party, but the Leger survey reported that 58% of Green voters think immigration is too high.

A plurality of Canadians think too many immigrants are arriving in their community:

“Does your community need more or less immigrants?”

• Less (47%) +6 since July
• About the same as now (38%)
• More (15%)

This includes most immigrants themselves:

“Does your community need more or less immigrants?”

• Born in Canada answering less (48%)
• Born outside of Canada answering less (44%)

Growing concern over impact of immigration on daily life:

The Abacus poll shows that many Canadians continue to believe that immigration is having a positive effect on the availability of workers, economic growth, and Canada’s ability to attract new business investment – although support is slipping on all of these measures since the last time Abacus asked respondents in July.

Respondents were particularly concerned about the less abstract effects of immigration, in particularly its impact on their daily lives.

“Do you think the number of immigrants coming to Canada is having a positive, neutral, or negative impact when it comes to…”

• Access to healthcare (Negative: 53% Neutral: 27% Positive: 14%)
• Crime and public safety (Negative: 39% Neutral: 41% Positive: 13%)
• Congestion and traffic (Negative: 51% Neutral: 33% Positive: 10%)
• The cost and availability of housing (Negative: 69% Neutral: 17% Positive: 8%)F

And finally, an increasing number of Canadians think immigration is making Canada worse off: 

“Is immigration making Canada better or worse off?”

• Worse (43%) +7 since July
• Better (24%) -4 since July

 

[Perspektiv]

I think immigration is not the issue. The volume, the lack of a plan to accommodate it, is.

Also, there are spikes of immigrants flooding out of the country.

So not only can we not appropriately house them, but can't keep the talent that we would want to hang into, at rising rates.

I mean, we have antiquated systems. 

IE a massive doctor shortage and tons of doctors and medical specialists chomping at the bit wanting to come here. 

Instead of working at means at fast tracking their ability to work here, we are forcing people like this to do jobs well below their skill levels, to stay afloat.

A nurse from the Philippines, which are insanely qualified for the position, must jump through so many hoops, it becomes next to impossible for them to cross over.

Its easier for many to work at a low or minimum wage job, instead, with astronomically high rents to pay.

My take--fix that problem first. Then bring in people based on the social need. That should be the priority.

[Michael Hardner]

47 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 

My take--fix that problem first. Then bring in people based on the social need. That should be the priority.

I basically agree with everything you said here, but to point out is that the entire political system needs to become smarter.

 

We've been hearing about shortages and problems with health care for decades, and we've allowed our politicians to deny the problem.

[DUI_Offender]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I think immigration is not the issue.

That is because you live in a fantasy world.

[DUI_Offender]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

https://dominionreview.ca/abacus-poll-shows-canadian-immigration-attitudes-hardening/

 

Majority of Canadians think federal immigration target is too high:

• Way too high (40%)
• Too high (27%)
• About right (23%)
• Too low (2%)
• Don’t know (7%)

This was only a matter of time, with the looming housing crisis, and stress on the education, infrastructure, and health care. Not to mention many Canadians are being pushed out of the market, due to housing being not affordable.

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Majorities in all regions surveyed think immigration is too high:

• British Columbia (64%)
• Alberta (70%)
• Saskatchewan/Manitoba (67%)
• Ontario (70%)
• Québec (60%)
• Atlantic Canada (68%)

I am somewhat surprised that the numbers for BC are not higher. Quebec would finish lowest, since they are getting the lowest share of new Canadians (per-capita)

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Voters from all four major parties want lower immigration: 

• Conservative (82%)
• Liberal (61%)
• NDP (63%)
• Bloc Québecois (80%)

Not surprising the Conservatives are more opposed to immigration, considering new Canadians tend to flock to large cities, and vote for the Liberals and NDP. 

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

This includes most immigrants themselves:

“Does your community need more or less immigrants?”

• Born in Canada answering less (48%)
• Born outside of Canada answering less (44%)

These numbers will increase, only the immigrants become accustomed to life in this country.  They are also more affected by increased immigration than traditional Canadians. 

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And finally, an increasing number of Canadians think immigration is making Canada worse off: 

“Is immigration making Canada better or worse off?”

• Worse (43%) +7 since July
• Better (24%) -4 since July

When the full effect of the 2.3 million new Canadians that have arrived has been felt, the "Worse off" number is going to skyrocket. 

[blackbird]

The leader of the Sikh temple was assassinated recently in Surrey, BC.  Yesterday, shots were fired into the home of the Hindu temple leader's son in Surrey, B.C.  We can guess where this is coming from.  Canada should not be bringing immigrants to Canada that bring their struggles and conflicts to Canada.  Extremists are among them. 

[Perspektiv]

58 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

That is because you live in a fantasy world.

Canada cannot survive without immigration. 

Look at business ownership. Tell me. What percent is immigrant owned in Canada? 5%. Less than a percent, making it negligible? Or closer to a quarter of all private sector entrepreneurs?

Who is likeliest to become an entrepreneur in Canada, today. A Canadian born citizen, or an immigrant?

How many doctors, nurses are immigrants? 

We don't need doctors or nurses? Think a Canadian population could provide the necessary labor force?

Trades.

Should I keep going.

There is nothing fantasy here. Fantasy here, is bringing in more immigrants than our systems can handle.

Not addressing the key issues that existing immigrants face, and wanting to retain the brain drain that ends up leaving Canada as a result. 

Not the immigration itself.

You're over-simplifying the issue, by blaming newcomers to Canada, for the incompetence of those bringing them in that didn't account for the massive influx of people and the effect and strain it would put on systems nearing their breaking points.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

The leader of the Sikh temple was assassinated recently in Surrey, BC.  Yesterday, shots were fired into the home of the Hindu temple leader's son in Surrey, B.C.  We can guess where this is coming from.  Canada should not be bringing immigrants to Canada that bring their struggles and conflicts to Canada.  Extremists are among them. 

You have any evidence that immigrants are more violent than people born here? How about people from India?

You seem to me like one of these people who arrive, Bible in hand, with answers already cooked up. You should learn to listen.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I think immigration is not the issue. The volume, the lack of a plan to accommodate it, is.

That would be a true statement for the most part i think as far as why people are upset goes. . That is what upsets people the most - they dont have enough medicine and don't have somewhere to live and then they see a million people arrive and say 'how the hell am i going to find a home now".

 

[blackbird]

50 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

You have any evidence that immigrants are more violent than people born here?

How about the Air India bombing and around 300 lives lost?  Would that count?

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

This was only a matter of time, with the looming housing crisis, and stress on the education, infrastructure, and health care. Not to mention many Canadians are being pushed out of the market, due to housing being not affordable.

I am somewhat surprised that the numbers for BC are not higher. Quebec would finish lowest, since they are getting the lowest share of new Canadians (per-capita)

Not surprising the Conservatives are more opposed to immigration, considering new Canadians tend to flock to large cities, and vote for the Liberals and NDP. 

These numbers will increase, only the immigrants become accustomed to life in this country.  They are also more affected by increased immigration than traditional Canadians. 

When the full effect of the 2.3 million new Canadians that have arrived has been felt, the "Worse off" number is going to skyrocket. 

The bc numbers are a little lower due to some of the unique issues of the province.  The overcrowding is somewhat concentrated in a few areas and is less felt elsewhere - and the bc govt has for some time been concentrating medical resources in a few key places to address this, and the effect of that is that people in outlying areas see the medical issues as being 'cutbacks in spending" locally rather than a bunch of new people in the area overwhelming the system. It's still actually because of the increasing population but they don't see it the same way someone in one of the exploding cities does.

I don't think Conservatives are opposed to immigration per se,  i think the problem is that the liberal voters and supportes are trained to believe that if you don't want MOAR immigration you're a bad pesron.  I think conservatives are just more likely to identify it as a problem early on and it takes libearl supporters getting to the point where they can't have a doctor, don't have anywhere to live, can't afford food and so on to say "Hmmmm- this might not actually be working. "

[Perspektiv]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

How about the Air India bombing and around 300 lives lost? 

Am confused as how this would implicate the millions of Canadians not involved in terrorism, and contributing to their community. 

So what you're saying, is a very minute and microscopic volume of immigrants are involved in terrorism.

 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Canada cannot survive without immigration. 

Look at business ownership. Tell me. What percent is immigrant owned in Canada? 5%. Less than a percent, making it negligible? Or closer to a quarter of all private sector entrepreneurs?

Who is likeliest to become an entrepreneur in Canada, today. A Canadian born citizen, or an immigrant?

How many doctors, nurses are immigrants? 

We don't need doctors or nurses? Think a Canadian population could provide the necessary labor force?

Trades.

Should I keep going.

There is nothing fantasy here. Fantasy here, is bringing in more immigrants than our systems can handle.

Not addressing the key issues that existing immigrants face, and wanting to retain the brain drain that ends up leaving Canada as a result. 

Not the immigration itself.

You're over-simplifying the issue, by blaming newcomers to Canada, for the incompetence of those bringing them in that didn't account for the massive influx of people and the effect and strain it would put on systems nearing their breaking points.

We need immigration that is true. We cannot maintain a positive population growth without it and declining population has it's own fairly serious issues.

But i think the need is grossly overstated.  Take medicine - we don't import enough doctors to treat the number of immigrants we're bringing in.  So - immigraiton still puts a strain on our systems. we would be better off radically expanding our current training.

As to other workforces - i think addressing most of those problems with immigration is a mistake. Immigration may bring in more workers but it also creates more work to be done - more housebuilders but more homes that need to be built - and the increase in need is actually not met by the increase in capacity to provide.

What we need to do is force our industries to look at being much more efficient rather than relying on immigrant labour to get things done. More efficient and attractive training for medical staff in country, more efficient home building methods etc, more tools for office staff and gov't workers etc.  I had to go to the hospital for a bit last year - they're still filling out medical charts with a pen.  Then someone has to enter that.

And forcing busiesss to do that makes people more productive, which makes people more valuable and creates higher gdp per person and that means more taxes from fewer people so better services all around.

Sure -we should also be focused on bringing in qualified people and getting them certified as quickly as possible for certain.  And for sure we need immigration. But we can't use immigration to solve our labour issues,  we have to make our people more productive

 

[Moonbox]

All good points, but the solutions are not simple.  You need politicians (and a population) willing to embrace some short-term discomfort to make the changes necessary.  When all we are getting from our leaders (from any side) are hot-takes and platitudes, and a willfully uninformed population that responds to nothing but outrage and grievances, thats the sort of leaders we get. 

 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Am confused as how this would implicate the millions of Canadians not involved in terrorism, and contributing to their community. 

So what you're saying, is a very minute and microscopic volume of immigrants are involved in terrorism.

 

 

No,  thousands of them demonstrated in Canada for the separate state of Khalistan.  Thousands of them may be radicals.  Demonstrating for things like that in Canada is bringing their trouble to our country.  The assassination of the Sikh leader of the temple is all part of the same conflict.  Bringing violence to Canada.  Same with the immigrants now demonstrating in malls, blocking roads, and harassing people in support of Hamas.  Shooting bullets into Jewish schools.  We don't need these trouble makers in Canada.  

[Perspektiv]

40 minutes ago, blackbird said:

We don't need these trouble makers in Canada.  

Lets just keep our troublemakers local?

Or do you not realize the vast majority of their community lives peacefully?

Am quite confident in walking past dodgy downtown neighborhoods in Vancouver, or Toronto the last thing on people's minds is "wow, am I ever happy the drug addiction and crime out here, is free from any Sikh involvement".

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Perspektiv said:

Lets just keep our troublemakers local?

Or do you not realize the vast majority of their community lives peacefully?

 

Are we not better off ONLY having to deal with our own issues, which GENERALLY involve no violence?

Quote

Am quite confident in walking past dodgy downtown neighborhoods in Vancouver, or Toronto the last thing on people's minds is "wow, am I ever happy the drug addiction and crime out here, is free from any Sikh involvement".

Many people over the last year have been stabbed in that area by people from muslim nations.  I posted several of those stories here.  So yea - the drug addicts generally don't bother people.

And they open their papers, see these stories:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/shots-fired-at-home-of-son-of-surrey-temple-leader-1.7071973

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/shots-fired-at-home-of-son-of-surrey-temple-leader-1.7071973

and about a dozen others i could post and 'drug addicts' aren't their first concern

If your argument was that there's no problem here at all, you're not accurate and it doesn't help to pretend otherwise,

[Perspektiv]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Many people over the last year have been stabbed in that area by people from muslim nations.

We nee to have tough laws on this. I'm 100% pro-police and strong laws and borders.

I think to lump all Muslim people in the same box, is unfair, considering their sheer volume with regards to law abiding contributors to society.

I think we need to focus on the bad apples, and denounce them accordingly, vs hurt those who come here for the right reasons.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

We nee to have tough laws on this. I'm 100% pro-police and strong laws and borders.

Well clearly and that's true regardless but i feel that that's a seperate issue.

IF a group of people is bringing problems that lead to violence here that woudl not have been here otherwise i think that's a valid concern to address.

7 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I think we need to focus on the bad apples, and denounce them accordingly, vs hurt those who come here for the right reasons.

I suppose you're right in the sense that if we treated the wrong do-ers harshly and kicked them out (which we don't) then i'd be a lot more inclined to accept that as a valid way to address it.

But - we don't and the judges don't want to let us. So i'm more inclined to look at keeping the problems out in the first place.

[DUI_Offender]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

The leader of the Sikh temple was assassinated recently in Surrey, BC.  Yesterday, shots were fired into the home of the Hindu temple leader's son in Surrey, B.C.  We can guess where this is coming from.  Canada should not be bringing immigrants to Canada that bring their struggles and conflicts to Canada.  Extremists are among them. 

Yet they want to bring in more Palestinians, and of course, we have seen how "great" that is going.

[DUI_Offender]

5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Canada cannot survive without immigration. 

That may be true, but we have to limit the number on immigrants until we catch up on housing units, schools, hospitals, and infrastructure that the new Canadians will need. Admitting 2.3 million people in Canada since January 2022 was just foolish.

We need to cap the number of people coming into the country at 350,000 until we have the ability to support them.

[DUI_Offender]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

No,  thousands of them demonstrated in Canada for the separate state of Khalistan.  Thousands of them may be radicals.  Demonstrating for things like that in Canada is bringing their trouble to our country.  The assassination of the Sikh leader of the temple is all part of the same conflict.  Bringing violence to Canada.  Same with the immigrants now demonstrating in malls, blocking roads, and harassing people in support of Hamas.  Shooting bullets into Jewish schools.  We don't need these trouble makers in Canada.  

When Trump announced a ban on people from Muslim countries, I thought it was ridiculous,  However, after 2 months of non-stop "demonstrations" and protests from Palestinian supporters, I no longer think it is a bad idea.  Especially considering the dramatic rise in antisemitism, and the targeting of Jewish owned business by these people.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

We nee to have tough laws on this. I'm 100% pro-police and strong laws and borders.

I think to lump all Muslim people in the same box, is unfair, considering their sheer volume with regards to law abiding contributors to society.

I think we need to focus on the bad apples, and denounce them accordingly, vs hurt those who come here for the right reasons.

It is impossible to screen individuals and determine whether they will be trouble-makers or have an extremist slant.  The proof of that is:

1.  The huge demonstrations these people start when they are established here.

2.  Terrorist incidents which have occurred in Europe in places where large numbers of them have been allowed in.

The government was not able to screen them and let in lots of extremists.  That has happened in Canada too.  Also, how they will behave cannot be predicted but the fact they belong to certain religions is an indication of possible trouble.  That is the only clue.

[DUI_Offender]

25 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It is impossible to screen individuals and determine whether they will be trouble-makers or have an extremist slant.  The proof of that is:

1.  The huge demonstrations these people start when they are established here.

2.  Terrorist incidents which have occurred in Europe in places where large numbers of them have been allowed in.

The government was not able to screen them and let in lots of extremists.  That has happened in Canada too.  Also, how they will behave cannot be predicted but the fact they belong to certain religions is an indication of possible trouble.  That is the only clue.

This is correct. A 9/11 style attack on Canada was narrowly thwarted in 2006:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Ontario_terrorism_plot

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You have any evidence that immigrants are more violent than people born here? How about people from India?

You seem to me like one of these people who arrive, Bible in hand, with answers already cooked up. You should learn to listen.

Poverty breeds crime.   What are the poorest and thus most crime riddled areas in the GTA?  And who lives there?  Seems like a lot of refugees.  If you don't speak English and are unskilled and poorly educated you and your family will likely be poor.

Many immigrants can speak English and are educated and aren't poor and don't commit crime.  My doctor is from Pakistan.