The progressive diversity cult is killing the Western world

[Moonbox]

32 minutes ago, herbie said:

because it's the trooth... don't you believe in alternate truths? Like mixing bleach and ammonia makes pudding? That he who shouts the loudest is the winner? That repeating a lie often enough makes it the truth? That the headline IS the story? That if you don't "like" something it can't be true? Like 3% of scientists didn't agree 25 years ago it must be total bullshit?

Not even fair.  Groot's not a run-of-the-mill conspiracy clown and likening him to them is the sort of black-and-white us vs them myopia that I'm talking about here.   Some of the things he complains about are things I've argued against in the past and I would (at least to some extent) agree with him.  It just seems to me like he's drowning in culture war hysterics and losing any sense of nuance or reason with it.   

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Not even fair.  Groot's not a run-of-the-mill conspiracy clown and likening him to them is the sort of black-and-white us vs them myopia that I'm talking about here.   Some of the things he complains about are things I've argued against in the past and I would (at least to some extent) agree with him.  It just seems to me like he's drowning in culture war hysterics and losing any sense of nuance or reason with it.   

Yes, but since he's salvageable doesn't that make all of this worse ?

Those of us who can articulate an idea without a full veneer of rage on here tend to see *something of both sides... so this poster is an anomaly imo.

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, but since he's salvageable doesn't that make all of this worse ?

Those of us who can articulate an idea without a full veneer of rage on here tend to see *something of both sides... so this poster is an anomaly imo.

Are you really going to continue this pose of the thoughtful, mature poster educating the rest of us on non-partisan discussion when you habitually dismiss so many people as 'chuds'? 

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

What I always find tragic is how you don't see that you're part of the problem. Russia/China etc have nothing to exploit without over-emotional responses like you provide here:

And this is part of what I see often from the Left. The attitude seems to be everything was fine here until the stupid rightists started to get all riled up by the American Trumptards on issues like drag queens reading free love sonnets to children and teachers telling 7-year-olds they might actually be a different gender, and complaining about DEI initiatives and immigration and statues being pulled down. And the weird thing is so many on the Left seem to believe that!

What they are not quite getting is it was the introduction of all this stuff by progressives passing on what their American counterparts were doing that started to incite conservatives. NOT what we're hearing from the Americans. I personally look at almost no American media. It's too boring and too full of garbage.

The essence of conservatism is to conserve. If conservatives see things that seem to be eroding our culture, values, and common beliefs and mocking our history that's going to naturally rile them up. And the response from the Left, when conservatives started complaining, was - unprintable in this forum - and laden with utter contempt, derision and smugness. Surprisingly, this only served to anger conservatives more! Who would have thunk it!?

 

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

How can you complain about division, when you've fully bought-in to the us-vs-them mentality, pushing absurd hyperbole like the quote above?  

Right. There's an argument to be made there. But the counter-argument is that the continued erosion of everything conservatives believe in at the hands of progressives importing American far-left garbage like DEI and critical race theory and all the utter trash about de-colonialism is not going to stop until it's confronted. Being nice has accomplished absolutely zero. Instead, the ideological situation we saw in universities has now moved down to the K-12 level as well. And our own founding leaders are all referred to by various pejorative names because their social beliefs don't match up to what's considered politically correct in 2023.

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Whose mind do you think you're changing?  Every time you toss out lazy slogans like "woke" or "climate alarmists" etc, you're advertising your emotionality and that you're not worth taking seriously.

 You think there AREN'T climate alarmists? I regularly come across people online (and one idi0t niece) who think the world is going to be burned to a crisp within forty years. I read people who think civilization is going to collapse in their lifetimes. There's a ton of climate alarmists. And 'woke' is a phrase progressives selected for themselves to describe how enlightened they are! It's not some nasty word the right thought up to insult them. Like chud.

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

While you lament the decline of western values, many of the things you're railing against are quintessentially western values in he first place - things like humanism, secularism, the scientific method, equality and *gasp* progress.

I have sad news for you. The scientific method is considered a part of white supremacy. You won't find ME railing against it. And I believe in equality because my culture has a rock-solid belief in justice. What I don't believe in is equity, which is NOT equality. I also fully support secularism, so I'm not sure where you're getting your beliefs in my beliefs from.

PS. Progress is good. I like progress. But not all change is progress just because someone says it's so. 

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Any of the topics you brought up in your rant can reasonably discussed

Why is it a rant? My first OP was one paragraph. The second major post was simply a response to MH. What makes either of those resemble a rant? Did either sound angry to you? They don't read that way to me. 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by I am Groot

[Michael Hardner]

20 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

... you habitually dismiss so many people as 'chuds'? 

You're not a Chud.... 

Do you think that you are?

[I am Groot]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

You're not a Chud.... 

Do you think that you are?

You fling that phrase around a lot and have used it in what certainly seems like a response to some of my postings.

[I am Groot]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And as a measure of thanks, I will dip into the content of the discussion that you care so very much about... 

The apparently devastating impact of Trans athletes on our culture ?

I agree that the weightlifter shouldn't be banned and a discussion needs to be had.

I don't consider trans athletes to be singularly important. But it's symbolic of the way womens spaces are being eroded, the way women are being bullied - by men - the way science and common sense are being utterly ignored on this subject. Children are being eagerly encouraged to make irreparable changes to their bodies and we're all supposed to accept that and smile?

I think we've lost our minds when we say that a man who touches a 15 year old girl's breast even with her consent should be criminally punished but a man who cuts her breasts off because she consented is fine.

17 is too young to be allowed to sign a contract. But ten is plenty old enough to consent to puberty blockers!

Edited November 29, 2023 by I am Groot

[Moonbox]

5 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

And this is part of what I see often from the Left. The attitude seems to be everything was fine here until the stupid rightists started to get all riled up by the American Trumptards...

and this is why you're not worth any serious attention here.  You can't (or won't) articulate a point without defaulting back to your lazy heuristics, slogans and hyperbole.  I'm not even going to read the rest of that wall of text you pounded out, because I got the gist of it from your opening line.  ?

 

[I am Groot]

2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

and this is why you're not worth any serious attention here.  You can't (or won't) articulate a point without defaulting back to your lazy heuristics, slogans and hyperbole.  I'm not even going to read the rest of that wall of text you pounded out, because I got the gist of it from your opening line.  ?

And this is why I dismiss almost everything you have to say, too. This smug arrogance that says anyone who deviates from your narratives isn't worth listening to or reading.

And that's the attitude that inspires the very thing you're complaining about, and a response that says "And fick you too."

Edited November 29, 2023 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, herbie said:

because it's the trooth... don't you believe in alternate truths? Like mixing bleach and ammonia makes pudding? That he who shouts the loudest is the winner? That repeating a lie often enough makes it the truth? That the headline IS the story? That if you don't "like" something it can't be true? Like 3% of scientists didn't agree 25 years ago it must be total bullshit?

For all your smug contempt and a sense of unearned superiority that matches Trump, you haven't been able to show me wrong or lying about a single blessed thing.

You simply assume anything that transgresses the narrow boundaries of your ideological box must be lies.

[BeaverFever]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:07 PM, I am Groot said:

Gad Saad kind of echoes the speech Konstantin Kisin made at Arc. It's very much worth watching.

Both take the position that the way the West, particularly the anglosphere is feeding on itself in an orgy of self-loathing is weakening us all against the growing number of ruthless foreign warlords who are taking advantage of it and doing their best to undermine the central, uniting cultural and historical norms, values, and ethos of Western society. It is not beyond the pale to suggest that in fifty years China will be essentially ruling most of the world through proxies if not directly, as the West rots from within.

 

On Oct. 21, I posted a message on my X feed that went viral. It has garnered nearly 11 million views over the past month. I reproduce it here:

“You are not going to like this tweet so turn away if you are likely to be triggered: I am a very optimistic person; I am a fighter for Western values and liberties; I am a dogged defender of science, reason, and common sense. I must say though that I am unsure that the West can recover from its multifront civilizational suicide. Yes, I’ve talked about these issues for decades and wrote a book about it (The Parasitic Mind: How Infectious Ideas Are Killing Common Sense) but the past few weeks have crystallized the extent to which the problem has become intractable. It will be a long and ultimately bloody demise and the West will be the first society in recorded history to fully self-implode due to its parasitic ideological rapture. It is a gargantuan Greek tragedy that will shape the future of humanity. This is not hyperbole. Your grandchildren will pay a very high price for your ‘progressive’ arrogance rooted in the pursuit of Unicornia that only exists in the recesses of deeply flawed parasitized minds.”

Gad Saad: The progressive diversity cult is killing the West | National Post

 

Nonsense.
 

The only “multifront civilizational suicide” by the west is due to western so-called capitalists on the right wing who in reality are anything but and are busy selling us out to those ruthless foreign warlords.

 

China,  Russia, and Saudi Arabia and the like aren’t rising because someone in the West gave a tranny a free Bud Light.  They’re rising against us because in the name of capitalism we naively became financially dependent upon them for manufactured goods and natural resources,  transferring our advanced technology to them and making them wealthy in the process. And we did this because our wealthiest and most powerful business leaders, the very spokespeople of capitalism, demanded it. Most probably did it out of naïve foolishness thinking we would spread democracy to these repressive places but I doubt any of them spent much time thinking about anything other their own selfish short-term gains. I doubt they would have done anything different even if they knew the outcome.   And now their financial interests are greatly invested in these regimes so they have mixed loyalties, a good portion of them are now Putin supporters to boot.  
 

Meanwhile the same people who demanded we enrich and empower these brutal regimes also demanded t we decimate western countries with austerity measures that gutted vital public services and punish working class to the point of collapse. They have caused the greatest level of wealth inequality and lowest level of social mobility seen in generations.  Working class people in the west are all but condemned to a life of financial hardship or precariousness as the so-called capitalists on the right have demanded their jobs pay as little as possible, their employers, landlords, banks and payday lenders have much power as possible, and the means of escaping this poverty trap (a quality education) be as expensive as possible.
 

In the USA politics have become absolutely corrupted by money and legalized bribery right down to the municipal level.  The majority of US congressmen are millionaires who have zero knowledge or interest in the working class. They work for the so-called capitalists who are simply vampires who suck the world dry, starting with their own country. They have no patriotic loyalty to the west or eventual to capitalism and are just as contest to make their fortune destroying the west as opposed to building it up. 
 

The right’s culture wars and tranny hysteria, “war on Christmas” and other such nonsense is just to distract you from the real game being played by the ultra-rich and corporations who own the right wing parties and whose only interest is to redistribute as much of the world’s wealth into their own pockets as possible. 

[Moonbox]

25 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

And this is why I dismiss almost everything you have to say, too. This smug arrogance that says anyone who deviates from your narratives isn't worth listening to or reading.

Of course you're not listening.  You're way too busy working yourself up and posting goofy hyperbole to describe the outrage you feel over...other people's outrage.  ?

The progressive diversity cult...hahaha.  

That's so perfectly encapsulates your downward spiral here.  ?

Edited November 29, 2023 by Moonbox

[Moonbox]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, but since he's salvageable doesn't that make all of this worse?

I'm no sure I'd call him salvageable.  You don't have to be an addled conspiracy donkey or completely desocialized to be a lost cause.  There are plenty of otherwise reasonable and intelligent people who lack the emotional maturity and self-awareness to accept challenges to their viewpoints.  

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Those of us who can articulate an idea without a full veneer of rage on here tend to see *something of both sides... so this poster is an anomaly imo.

I don't think he's an anomaly.  His attitudes are a dime a dozen.  

[herbie]

I was not particularly talking about Groot. Though he did stoop to spouting the typical 'climate alarmist' term popular with that tribe. I have agreed with him other times.

Getting a little tired of this cesspool of hackneyed idioms from people thinking they're terrible insults. Missing the days when Running dog lackey of the Wall St. imperialists required more brain power to say than the cliches of the monosyllabic mutterings of a troglodyte. The good old days where one could have a more intellectually stimulating conversation with a Maoist or a f*cking Hare Krishna.

Edited November 29, 2023 by herbie

[Zeitgeist]

Groot has called out the self-destructive stupidity of the activists who are running our government institutions and large businesses under the banner of DEI and “progress”. He’s right and the sucky leftist nanny crowd are wrong. Very wrong.

We have traded MLK’s idea of equality for new forms of segregation.  We have traded quality education and our meritocracy for identity politics and favoured status for groups based on superficial traits like race without regard to the uniqueness of individuals.

We have lost the plot as a society because we’ve forgotten the foundations of a healthy democracy and economy: free speech, meritocracy, religious rights, and individual rights.

We’ve also forgotten that government should only be in the business of providing services, not dictating how people think or raising children.  The attack on the family unit, the natural procreating family, as well as the values that support it, are in my opinion the most worrying trend. We have stopped valuing human life and understanding that healthcare is about keeping people healthy, not killing them or giving them hard drugs for recreation.

I understand the importance of supporting workers and safeguarding the poor and infirm, providing opportunities for those who are underprivileged, and many of the values of the traditional left.  No doubt social safety nets are important.

The problem I see is that our permissiveness and naivety have weakened Canada, caused a loss of confidence in our traditional way of life, and imported international conflicts and values that run counter to our founding peoples’ values.

Trans-humanism and AI are threatening our natural identities and humanity.  The obsession with climate fear could also eliminate the middle class and push more people into subsistence.  

What some have called progress is actually regression. Our mortality rate is up, our GDP per person is lower, there are more wars, and people feel a sense of powerlessness before the vicissitudes of a more top-down internationally-driven governance that uses better surveillance and data to direct more of our behaviour. The pandemic won’t easily be forgotten.

Basically governments have become too controlling, too big, and too ideological.  Our basic constitutional freedoms have been compromised and in exchange people are force-fed BS about how privileged they are or how victimized they are based on pseudoscientific narratives.

These problems come mostly from the left today.  We need to restore traditional family values, our basic rights, and clip the wings of woke-green activism in our governments and organizations.  Call out the communists, nihilists, gender ideology activists, and other radicals claiming Canada is a settler colonialist oppressor state when it’s probably been the most accepting and tolerant country of any on the planet.  Respect the roots of this country or lose it.  Canada didn’t just fall from the sky.  It can be dismantled more easily than most people think. I myself have lost my passion for the country and see more to admire in certain US states, because I no longer think our government works for Canada and Canadians.  I hope it changes for the better soon.  

Edited November 29, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

 Running dog lackey of the Wall St. imperialists required more brain power to say than the cliches of the monosyllabic mutterings of a troglodyte. The good old days where one could have a more intellectually stimulating conversation with a Maoist or a f*cking Hare Krishna.

Well, I sure think about those people.

[CdnFox]

On 11/27/2023 at 1:22 PM, herbie said:

Progressive Diversity Cult and other bogeymen of the Wrong Wing fear mongers.

So sayeth the troll king

That's about your 10th "bogeyman' for the "anybody right of castro' people you hate so much    Everythings a 'bogeyman'.

So basically when you encounter something you can't refute, one of your go to's is to simply call it a 'bogeyman' and run away. 

The 'diversity cult" or "intersectional coalition" as the left called it is indeed a significant political force and a serious issue to address as they tend to be all about anger and division (which is true of many "left wing" positions these days).

Mixed with their other fave - calling people what they are themselves   imagine someone selling fear of the '"wrong wing" calling others 'fear mongers'   LOLOL

[eyeball]

On 11/27/2023 at 3:43 PM, I am Groot said:

When people can bring themselves to wave away the savages sacking civilized towns, gleefully raping, torturing and slaughtering everyone in sight, and instead bring up social justice complaints it's fair to question if our societies are becoming so divided we no longer have a sense of shared values, identity or beliefs.

No one is waving anything away, they're drawing your attention to the fact these things didn't happen in a vacuum.

[I am Groot]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No one is waving anything away, they're drawing your attention to the fact these things didn't happen in a vacuum.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Do you want to discuss the justification for why Paul Bernardo raped and murdered schoolgirls? I mean, it wasn't all his fault, now was it?

And some have most definitely waved it away, calling it justified, and even celebrating it as an 'act of resistance'. 

Funny. I never knew that resistance included gang rape and torturing children.

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No one is waving anything away, they're drawing your attention to the fact these things didn't happen in a vacuum.

You are totally waiving things away and attempting to justify something by claiming there was some species of excuse for it. 

4 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Funny. I never knew that resistance included gang rape and torturing children.

Only if it's done against the jews. then they had it coming.  You know - like a girl dressed nicely walking at night had it coming if she gets raped. That doesn't' happen in a vacuum you know.

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Do you want to discuss the justification for why Paul Bernardo raped and murdered schoolgirls? I mean, it wasn't all his fault, now was it?

Sure it was. Don't be silly.

Quote

And some have most definitely waved it away, calling it justified, and even celebrating it as an 'act of resistance'.

It takes all kinds. Many haven't.  

Quote

Funny. I never knew that resistance included gang rape and torturing children.

Subjugation that involves killing thousands of children will do that I guess. That doesn't make it right, it just is what it is.

[I am Groot]

Just now, eyeball said:

Subjugation that involves killing thousands of children will do that I guess. That doesn't make it right, it just is what it is.

And you know this why? Because Hamas told you?

I looked at the casualties in Ukraine the other night. It's about 10,000 civilians, 500 of which are children.

Yet not that long ago Hamas told us the casualties in Gaza were also 10,000, about 4500 of which were children.

Do Arabs not do anything to protect their children? 

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That doesn't make it right, it just is what it is.

With that sentence you alienate 3/4 of the posters on here.  And yet they still somehow to live atop the same earth that you and I recognize is built on contradictions and making-do when you have to.

Oh well...

[I am Groot]

 

16 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

China,  Russia, and Saudi Arabia and the like aren’t rising because someone in the West gave a tranny a free Bud Light.  They’re rising against us because in the name of capitalism we naively became financially dependent upon them for manufactured goods and natural resources,  transferring our advanced technology to them and making them wealthy in the process.

There's some truth in this. A lot, when it comes to China. But we didn't outsource our natural resources to the Saudis and Russians because they were cheaper, but because that's just where the oil was. And lately, we've outsourced it because progressive western politicians want them to have the pollution that comes along with things like mining for rare earths and we want them to have the CO2 emissions for cement factories and oil and gas while we pose and preen.

16 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

And we did this because our wealthiest and most powerful business leaders, the very spokespeople of capitalism, demanded it. Most probably did it out of naïve foolishness thinking we would spread democracy to these repressive places but I doubt any of them spent much time thinking about anything other their own selfish short-term gains. I doubt they would have done anything different even if they knew the outcome.   And now their financial interests are greatly invested in these regimes so they have mixed loyalties, a good portion of them are now Putin supporters to boot.  

I think covid was a wakeup call for outsourcing vital industries. And what China is doing in trying to corner the market on rare earths is another. There's a growing effort to move things back from China, especially industries vital to national security and the economy like semiconductors and national resources. But again, this is being resisted by people like Trudeau who would rather import oil from Saudi Arabia than develop it here, and whose environmental regulations make it extremely difficult to mine or process rare earths.

16 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Meanwhile the same people who demanded we enrich and empower these brutal regimes also demanded t we decimate western countries with austerity measures that gutted vital public services and punish working class to the point of collapse.

Haven't seen one of these austerity things lately. But you can only borrow so much money before one of them comes along. We're now paying more to service our debt, just for the interest payments, than we pay for healthcare. That can't continue to increase.

16 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

They have caused the greatest level of wealth inequality and lowest level of social mobility seen in generations.  Working class people in the west are all but condemned to a life of financial hardship or precariousness as the so-called capitalists on the right have demanded their jobs pay as little as possible,

Again, I agree with much of this. But the progressives haven't exactly been fighting against the importation of millions of cheap foreign workers to keep wages low, now have they?

16 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

The right’s culture wars and tranny hysteria, “war on Christmas” and other such nonsense is just to distract you from 

The Right didn't launch the culture wars. It mostly ignored the attack on their values by the Left for years before finally beginning to respond.

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

And you know this why? Because Hamas told you?

Not why, how...the same reason you know, you heard it on the news.

Quote

 

I looked at the casualties in Ukraine the other night. It's about 10,000 civilians, 500 of which are children.

Yet not that long ago Hamas told us the casualties in Gaza were also 10,000, about 4500 of which were children.

Do Arabs not do anything to protect their children?

 

They'd probably have a better chance if they had the resources Ukraines been provided with.