Is Canada going communist?

[August1991]

On 11/1/2023 at 5:11 PM, taxme said:

Is Canada well on it's way to becoming a communist country? It looks to me like this is what is happening here in Canada. I have been watching many communist like government activities going on in Canada like with this.... 

====

What say you? Is Canada fast becoming a communist country? I believe so, do you? ?

 

Canada is a federal state. The governments of Quebec and Alberta have powers. Moreover, we now have a Charter of Rights in our constitution. In theory, an individual is protected against the majority.

===

IME, socialists/leftists/communists want to control people. Our federal system is our best protection against communists.

Some Canadians speak French, many others are Catholic. We get along.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by August1991

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

No I’m saying your claims about socialism are made up. 
 

And which definition of socialism i made specifically is made up?

 

Quote

That is a perfect example your made up nonsense that literally is opposite of reality. Before WW2 many on the right such as Henry Ford and Charles Lindburgh were vocal Nazi sympathizers who celebrated Hitler as a brilliant industrialist who miraculously transformed the Weimar Republic and marvelling at innovations like the Hindenberg, which made many trips to USA before its famous accident. Hitler was even Time Magazine’s Man of the Year and George W Bush’s grandfather was an American banker for the Nazis.

Not really. A few did - and a few basically took the attitude that he's MUCH preferable to the communists, warts and all.

But his policies for controlling the market and such - MUCH balihood by the left.  And  - we see a resurgence of that today.  "democratic socialism' is a very very similiar model.

Quote

Meanwhile “the left” of the western capitalist world was volunteering to fight Hitler’s forces in the Spanish Civil War

Cool story - has nothing to do with hitler or being right or left. Vairous groups took sides mostly for political reasons and very much to test their latest military hardware.   Utterly irrelevant point.

Quote

That doesn’t mean right wing dictators and authoritarian regimes don’t exist.  

I have never claimed they did not.  Just  that your examples were stupid. Which they were.  Saddam Hussain was a dictator, and while i'm not sure i'd call him rght wing per se he wasn't left wing. you might argue that the russian oligarchy prior to the revolution was sort of a right wing totalitarianistic state if not a dicatorship.

 

the problem is - the modern ideology that mostly dominates actual right wing political people is the idea of personal responsibility and smaller gov'ts.  That doesn't lend itself well to dictatorship.

the easiest way to get people to follow a dictator or totalitarian system is to demand its for the "good of the country/society".  which was hitler's claim, stalin's claim, etc etc.  The idea that we serve a greater social good.  We must promote that social agenda. Social-ist.

So while you can get right of center dictators and such it's not very common. The vast vast vast majority of the dictators in the last couple hundred years are left wingers, and that continues today.

 

LOL - stop feeling so sorry for yourself - that doesnt' mean that ALL left wing gov'ts or leaders are ipso facto 'dictators' or bad people.   it just means that people who want to take corrupt power tend to favor a left wing social model.

[Michael Hardner]

Why do people talk about taxation so much more than trickle down economics?

Do people think that the inequality, and the rise of the numbers of desperate people that we seem to be seeing are due to taxation being high?

 

Honest question.

 

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

So these taxes are “socialism” because you don’t like them. 
 

That’s NOT the definition of socialism. 

Of course it is.  Is is a form of Socialism called Welfarism.  Canada is a welfare state.  Many Canadians now believe like a child and think their Father is the government and government must provide everything.  That makes it a kind of Socialist Welfare state.  Government has become Big Brother in reality and kind of god in many people's mind.   

Liberals and the Socialist NDP have deliberately pushed Canada in that direction.  They know it will increase their power and control over the masses of commoners.  They couldn't care less about individual freedoms or rights.  They couldn't care less about how much of everyone's income must be paid to the government to run all the programs.  There is no limit in their mind.  As long as government becomes the Big Brother, that's all that counts in their mind.

This is how a society becomes enslaved, looses it freedoms, and becomes a ward of the state.

That is happening and has been happening all along.  It is central liberal and left (NDP) ideology.  A kind of Marxism if you understand.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

And of course the economy needs all of these things and more in order to function at a first world level  

You just confirmed what I have been saying.  Canada is a Socialist Welfare state.  There is no doubt about it.  The liberal left believe in Big Brother control of everything and there is no limit to the amount of taxation they can enforce.

You yourself have already proven you are a strong supporter and advocate of a Big Brother welfare state.  That is what you got.  Most people don't understand what they are doing in supporting these kind of people.

The fact is with the ideology that most people follow and our government embraces we are moving steadily to Orwell's 1984 Big Brother type of government.  The reason is because most people, like yourself, believe they are like a child and government is their father.  They believe like you do that government must provide everything no matter how it is achieved.  That means ever-increasing taxation and ever-increasing services provided by Big Brother. 

In the process, most people don't know or don't care that they are losing their freedoms.  That doesn't matter to most people because they only look at how many and how good the services are that Big Brother provides.  That is all that matters in the welfare state that we live in.   You are getting what you want.  Whether it will last or not I don't know.  The whole thing could collapse.  The foundation of the welfare state may be built on sand.  The system is already heavily stressed.  There are millions of people that can't afford to buy a home and many have to go to food banks to survive and pay the rent.  This is stressing the system tremendously. 

Yet the left still demands more government services such as universal pharmacare that would cost billions more.   Yet for millions of other people, they receive all the pharmacare they need through their private health insurance, their government employee health plan or heavily subsidized pharmacare system that provinces pay.  What will happen to all that if the government brings in universal pharmacare at massive expense?  Perhaps it will upset the apple cart and the whole system will be in a crisis.  It could take massive tax increases to pay for it forcing millions more people to food banks and increasing the housing crisis.  Then there is the guaranteed basic income that would cost tens or hundreds of billions.  There is no end to the demands of Big Brother.

The Socialist Welfare state has a huge problem.  They want to provide everything for everyone no matter what it costs.  The taxpayers are forced to try to pay for it all.  But the money is just not enough for all the demands.  At some point the system will begin to crack and there could be crisis after crisis as the different welfare programs begin to collapse.

Edited November 18, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

I would say one of the biggest failings of Canada is its downward spiral and rejection of western Judeo-Christianity.

One of the consequences of this is the rejection of the principle of private property.  Private property is a Judeo-Christian principle base on such teachings in the Holy Scriptures as "thou shalt no steal" in the ten commandments back in the Old Testament but reinforced throughout the Bible.  The idea that big government (or Big Brother) knows best and has an inalienable right to everyone's private property is nothing more than a Lie of the Devil.  But that is exactly what much of today's governments and society believe in Canada.  Nobody has a right to private property if the state deems it knows how to use it better and provide social services of all kinds.  The same principle that there are no absolute fundamental rights if the state deems the people do not have such rights.  If the common good is deemed more important than individual rights and property or wealth, then the state has the right to take those away.  That is the prevailing ideology in Canada today and that is why it fits in with Marxism.  We have a perfect example of this when the Trudeau government seized the bank accounts of the Freedom or Convoy protesters.  There was no judicial process involved.  They just did it because they can.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Why do people talk about taxation so much more than trickle down economics?

Do people think that the inequality, and the rise of the numbers of desperate people that we seem to be seeing are due to taxation being high?

 

Honest question.

 

You've never asked an honest question in your life  

Trickle down economics doesn't exist.  Its a term the left came up with to describe a complex economic concept and it describes it badly.  now they use it as a pejorative and say things like 'trickle down economics doesn't work',  and when you ask them to define 'trickle down' it turns out they really can't and when you DO get something close to a definition it turns out it's worked many times very well.

There can be no doubt that taxation plays a major role in 'inequities'.  Taxation is a drag on the economy and reduces prosperity -  and the FIRST people to feel that are always the poor.  When society loses it's productivity and prosperity then the rich have the resources to adapt. They become LESS rich but - still rich,  but the middle class goes from upper middle to lower middle, and the lower middle becomes the poor. The poor become poorer

 

It's not JUST taxes but they play a large role.

[taxme]

On 11/17/2023 at 5:24 PM, CdnFox said:

Quite simply. For example communism does not allow for any market system really. You can however have a totalitarian state where there is a market based economy but the gov't completely controls the market. And if htey do so for their own benefit that is totalitarian.  If they do it for a 'societal goal' then it's socialist AND probably totalitarian.

Communism is a very specific form of socialism that's got some very well defined features.  It absolutely can be totalitarian but it doesn't need to be (in theory) and not all totalitarian states are communist.

Think of 'totalitarian' as being more like a dictatorship with a group of people instead of just a single dictator.

Again - your inability to understand basic concepts like this is not my fault

Good lord no.  I said previously i agreed with you on that

I don't think you do the reading thing so good sometimes

I get you don't understand that, but lets face it - comprehension isn't really your wheelhouse at the best of times.

Occasionally you say something right. On those rare occasions i agree with you. I'd agree with a broken clock twice a day - you may not be correct THAT often but when you are i agree  

well this is the thing. The gst is a tax designed to raise money to pay for the services we all recieve.  The Carbon tax is a tax for the sake of taxing designed to control our behavior. 
 

There's a big difference

Some countries do allow a market system. A totalitarian system is no different to a communist system. Pinochet for instance was no communist, but still acted like a communist. If one did not agree with Pinochet politics, one was thrown in the gulag just like they do in communist country's. Where is the difference? Both systems take rights and freedoms away from their citizen's. Your inability to see the difference is quite overwhelming. Comprehension seems to be a problem with you. Both are evil systems and your trying to make one system look somewhat better than the other is stupid. I am not occasionally right. I am always right. ? 

The GST was a tax created to generate more tax money for the government to be able to spend more money on more stupid leftist liberal policies that will do nothing to help keep Canada great. It was PM conservative Mulroney who gave us the GST and that pos was no conservative. That pos did just what that other pos old man Turdeau did? Blow tax dollars on stupid leftist liberal programs and agendas. 

The fake and phony carbon tax was created also to drain more money out of the already overtaxed taxpayer's wallets. The carbon tax is not for fighting climate change, dummy. And you say that i am the dummy here. You will believe anything the government tells you because you are just that dumb. 

I am still waiting for those pictures, dummy. LOL 

[taxme]

On 11/17/2023 at 10:15 PM, August1991 said:

Canada is a federal state. The governments of Quebec and Alberta have powers. Moreover, we now have a Charter of Rights in our constitution. In theory, an individual is protected against the majority.

===

IME, socialists/leftists/communists want to control people. Our federal system is our best protection against communists.

Some Canadians speak French, many others are Catholic. We get along.

 

Canada is a french socialist controlled federal state. As far as i know, the socialist Quebec government is a state and they did not sign on to the constitution. In other words, socialist Quebec can do whatever the hell it wants to do, and gets away with it. The rest of Canada is terrified of socialist Quebec because they are afraid that socialist Quebec might leave Canada. But that will never happen because socialist Quebec runs and rules Canada. And thanks to corrupt socialist Quebec we now have a corrupt french controlled socialist federal government. 

Quebec does not want to get along with any other province in Canada. Do as we say or else we will separate, and so, the rest of Canada shuts the phk up and bows down and has to pay homage to the french socialists from Quebec. 

Believe it or not. ?

 

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, taxme said:

Some countries do allow a market system. A totalitarian system is no different to a communist system.

Communism doesn't allow for a market system.  Many socailst models do but communism is fairly specific.
 

Quote

Pinochet for instance was no communist, but still acted like a communist. If one did not agree with Pinochet politics, one was thrown in the gulag just like they do in communist country's. Where is the difference?

well the difference is you could have a communist country that DIDN'T do that and still be communist, and you can have a socialst or dicatorship that does that and ISN'T communist.  So - that has nothing to do with communism.

Communism is a fairly specific model.

7 minutes ago, taxme said:

The GST was a tax created to generate more tax money for the government to be able to spend more money on more stupid leftist liberal policies that will do nothing to help keep Canada great.

well... no.... it was a replacement for an existing tax that artificially increased the cost of Canadian goods and was hidden, and therefore also applied to exports.

The GST was brought in as a deficit fighting tool which would help increase exports by removing the taxes from non canadians on manufactured goods. ANd it worked-  between that and nafta our exports to the us in dollar value climbed about 10 fold, and that made a MASSIVE difference in gettting the runaway deficit left behind by the libs under control

10 minutes ago, taxme said:

The fake and phony carbon tax was created also to drain more money out of the already overtaxed taxpayer's wallets.

That much is true.  And it was presented as a 'sin' tax.  In other words "we charge this tax not so that we can provide services but to control your behaivor',  Now - THAT"s closer to communism.   

[Queenmandy85]

Be patient everybody. Pretty soon Pierre Poilievre will be Prime Minister. He appears to be headed for a massive majority.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[CdnFox]

Just now, Queenmandy85 said:

Be patient everybody. Pretty soon Pierre Poilievre will be Prime Minister and fix everything. 

You're assuming there's anything left after 2 more years of 'Happy Socks' over here.

[Queenmandy85]

When you look beneath the cosmetic rhetoric, I don't think there will be that much difference between the Liberals and the CPC. On the positive side, we are promised nuclear power. On the negative, the CPC talk about stream lining government services such as passports. That costs money. Then there is housing. That costs money. Then there is high interest rates. (They aren't that high. When I was a lender for a major Canadian bank in the late 1970's, rates were a lot higher.) And then there is high inflation. Well, as Mr. Poilievre knows, the way to reduce inflation is to raise interest rates. With all the commitments he is making, if he cuts taxes, he will drive up the deficit, because his plans will cost taxpayers more money. 

An example is veterans affairs. Veterans have been short changed on their pensions and benefits since 1918. There have been about nine governments since then, Liberal, Conservative and CPC (Social Credit). None of them have been able to fix the problem in Veterans affairs. Why? It is too expensive. On the one side, you have the vets. On the other side, there are the tax payers. Each side is pulling the government in different directions. 

It is the same for everything the government faces. Defence, Healthcare, Education, Environment, Transportation. We all want government services, but we don't want to pay for it...or as one person put it, "We all want to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die to get there.

Pierre Poilievre has to know he has raised unachievable expectations, leaving his supporters to face disappointment. 

When I look at what the Government of Canada has to deal with, I would like to ask Mr. Poilievre, "Are you sure you really want to be Prime Minister?" I wish him luck. He is going to need it.

[August1991]

5 hours ago, taxme said:

Canada is a french socialist controlled federal state. As far as i know, the socialist Quebec government is a state and they did not sign on to the constitution. In other words, socialist Quebec can do whatever the hell it wants to do, and gets away with it. The rest of Canada is terrified of socialist Quebec because they are afraid that socialist Quebec might leave Canada. But that will never happen because socialist Quebec runs and rules Canada. And thanks to corrupt socialist Quebec we now have a corrupt french controlled socialist federal government. 

Quebec does not want to get along with any other province in Canada. Do as we say or else we will separate, and so, the rest of Canada shuts the phk up and bows down and has to pay homage to the french socialists from Quebec. 

Believe it or not. ?

 

In 1867, we Canadians copied the Americans.

We have a federal system.

Edited November 21, 2023 by August1991

[August1991]

I recommend everyone to read Lincoln's address in 1863.

Then Trudeau Snr in 1963.

=====

Lincoln? Can a society of ordinary people survive?

Trudeau?  If they are in a federal constitution.  

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

When you look beneath the cosmetic rhetoric, I don't think there will be that much difference between the Liberals and the CPC.

There will be a huge difference.  The popular myth taht all gov'ts are the same is simply a story people tell themselves to excuse why they don't get involved for the most part.

Hell - there's a big difference between the current liberals and the Chretien liberals. There will be an even bigger difference between trudeau and the CPC

The challenge is even tho there's a massive difference change takes time.  We have a bad habit of not giving gov'ts enough time for positive change.

So it's not really a question of 'are they different'.  They are, fundimentally,  The real question is how much of that difference will they have time to effectively influence the country with .

[Queenmandy85]

8 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The real question is how much of that difference will they have time to effectively influence the country with .

I understand what you are saying, but governments must reflect the electorate. The current standings put the socreds at 205 seats. Anything over 200 is super majority territory. However, they are at 41% in the polls. The grits are only at 27%, but, together with the Bloc and the NDP, the centre left and left leaning parties make up 59% of the electorate. This means that a socred government will be well advised to take that into consideration. It is not a governments role to tell the voters what to think, but rather it is the electorate's role to tell the government what to think. (Consent of the governed).

Prime Minister Diefenbaker received a super majority and mistakenly believed they were elected to change course. The fact of Canadian politics is we vote governments out, not in. We were tired of Uncle Louis in 1957. We are tired of the sunny Scottish Prime Minister (yes, Justin is three quarters Scottish and one quarter French) and Mr. Poilievre will get in by default. It is not liberalism voters are rebelling against. It is Mr. Trudeau. It is not his ethics that are his problem. Canadians re-elected MacKenzie King and the super corrupt Peason government. It is Prime Minister Trudeau's illusion that he knows best. Joe Clark made the same mistake. History indicates brilliant people do not become successful Prime Ministers. Blake, Meighen and Clark were all brilliant people. The successful Prime ministers were cunning, not bright. Mackenzie King, MacDonald, Pierre Trudeau and Mulroney come to mind. They were not welded to some silly ideology and they listened to people. If Justin had listened to Jodi, he would not be in the present difficulty. (He has difficulty relating to women).

Prime Minister Mulroney got a super majority and was smart enough to govern like a Red Tory / Blue Grit. Canadians are generally Red Tories/ Blue Liberals  and have been since Confederation. That is why he was successful. 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[Queenmandy85]

Some of us on this forum tend to assume the majority of voters believe what we believe. While our views vary from one another, I am pretty sure, most Canadians do not believe in small government and getting rid of government services. 

I try to be realistic. As a Conservative, I have to keep reminding myself that Conservatism does not reflect the views of the majority of Canadians. Having lived under CPC (Social Credit) governments in BC for over twenty years I could not understand how the Bennett's kept getting elected inspite of the corruption. The answer is obvious. My views did not reflect the views of most British Columbians who voted to keep the NDP out, not to put the CPC in. This is how Pierre Poilievre is going to win.

Nobody in their right mind believes all this baloney about Canada being communist. What they do believe is the current government is drowning in inertia. They make grand proposals that voters like but they fail to carry it out. This afflicts most governments, but the current government has more difficulty than most. I suspect it is because the cabinet is not as cohesive as it should be. They are divided over so many issues, it is like herding cats.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[BeaverFever]

On 11/18/2023 at 1:56 AM, CdnFox said:

And which definition of socialism i made specifically is made up?

An example is literally in the next paragraph of mine that you quoted 

 

On 11/18/2023 at 1:56 AM, CdnFox said:

Not really. A few did - and a few basically took the attitude that he's MUCH preferable to the communists, warts and all.

A minority perhaps but more than a few. 
 

On 11/18/2023 at 1:56 AM, CdnFox said:

But his policies for controlling the market and such - MUCH balihood by the left.  And  - we see a resurgence of that today. 

Absolutely false. Where is your evidence?

 

On 11/18/2023 at 1:56 AM, CdnFox said:

"democratic socialism' is a very very similiar model.

More absolute falsehoods 

 

On 11/18/2023 at 1:56 AM, CdnFox said:

Cool story - has nothing to do with hitler or being right or left. Vairous groups took sides mostly for political reasons and very much to test their latest military hardware.   Utterly irrelevant point.

You clearly weren’t paying attention.

The organized groups leading a worldwide effort to send foreign volunteers to the Spanish civil war weren’t “various groups,” they were left wing groups, period.  I’m sure there were some individuals there for adventure or perhaps some obscure groups fo some obscure niche cause but by and large the 35,000 foreign fighters who triedto defend the Spanish Republic democracy from the Nazi-backed fascist coup were left wing. They didn’t have any “weapons to teat” so I’m not sure what you’re referring to there. And the capitalist countries didn’t lift a finger or send a dime to support them because at the time many preferred fascists over socialists. 
 

“In her farewell address to what remained of the beleaguered International Brigades in 1938, the Spanish Republican leader Dolores Ibarruri, known as “La Pasionaria,” praisedthe foreign volunteers:

“Communists, Socialists, Anarchists, Republicans—men of different colors, differing ideology, antagonistic religions, yet all profoundly loving liberty and justice, they came and offered themselves to us unconditionally… You are history. You are legend. You are the heroic example of democracy's solidarity and universality.”

https://www.history.com/news/spanish-civil-war-foreign-nationals-volunteer#

Just to add context to the above quote:  it sounds strange in our time to hear someone state that communists are defending justice, liberty, democracy etc. but in the ‘20s ‘30s and even into the ‘40s prior to the cold war many people actually (and probably naively) believed that a communist democracy with more freedoms than capitalism was possible and there was even an actual “Communist Party” (not the CCF/NDP,  actual Communists) with party members who were elected to public office in Canada, USA and Western Europe. But of course that was back before there was a large middle class and back when workers had few rights and most people in society were “sick, poor and ugly” as historians like to say. Once the majority of people could own homes and luxury goods, work rewarding jobs etc communism lost its appeal plus the cold war and increasing awareness of Stalin’s abuses

 

But not everyone who is on “the left” was a communist or even a socialist. A desire for publicly funded programs and curbs on the exploration of workers, etc doesn’t derive from Marx or communism or socialism. Ancient Romans argued over these things. Marx coined the term “Communism” to describe a system that to this day has never existed on planet earth: a system where there are no longer any nation states and no governments, where people live in small communal groups something like an Israeli Kibutz or Amish/Mennonite communes and everyone has a say in how it is run and and an equal share in the community’s economic production. 
 

Nearly everyone in the western world who conservatives call “socialist” or “communist” or “Marxist” are in actuality capitalists who believe capitalism works best when it is well regulated and a when a base level of of public services are provided. 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Conservatism does not reflect the views of the majority of Canadians.

That's because most Canadians are not believers in our historic Judeo-Christian culture and civilization.  Most do not believe in the God of the Bible and instead worship their own heathen gods like Mother Earth, money, popularity, and the latest rock star.  Canada is being taken over more and more by the woke and the immigrants from the third world.  The future does not look good for Canada.

 

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Nobody in their right mind believes all this baloney about Canada being communist.

I don't think that is exactly correct.  20% of Canadians vote for a Socialist party, the NDP.

Canada has an authoritarian government which is not far from Marxism in many ways.  They are attempting to even control what is put on social media through some new laws.

Canada has so many laws and regulations at every level of government you can hardly deny it is moving toward more authoritarian control and Marxism.  

We already have government-controlled healthcare, which by the way, is not keeping up with the demands for health care.  The NDP is pushing hard for more Socialist programs such as Pharmacare and some want a guaranteed annual income.  The NDP leans strongly that way.  The Liberals are bending to their wishes in order to stay in power.  The NDP holds the balanace of power which is a very strong position.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I understand what you are saying, but governments must reflect the electorate. The current standings put the socreds at 205 seats.

Socreds?  Which election are you talking about old man?   You're about 30 years too late to be voting for socreds in Canada

Quote

The grits are only at 27%, but, together with the Bloc and the NDP, the centre left and left leaning parties make up 59% of the electorate. This means that a socred government will be well advised to take that into consideration.

The block is a center right party by and large, and focused on quebec. So that brings it pretty close to 50/50

Gov'ts are chosen to lead.  Justin has walked all over and spat on the right for close to 8 years now, and hasn't won the popular vote in 2 elections.

Funny -  i haven't seen any posts from you saying how justin REALLLY ought to be listening to the conservative voters more.  Seems like you're ok with ignoring the other side when you're party is in power

The cpc will get in and lead - and will run on it's results in the election that follows.

And lets face it -  The cpc will get elected PRECISELY to change course. Changing course is what people desperately want right now.

Do all the 'painful' and unpopular stuff up front - show off the rewards by the end of term, easy second mandate.  The challenge is always the third mandate but if anyone can do it PP can.

[blackbird]

12 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

When you look beneath the cosmetic rhetoric, I don't think there will be that much difference between the Liberals and the CPC.

That is true unfortunately.  Canada has become an extremely authoritarian state with a massive bureaucracy.  Canadians seem to believe in this kind of system.  Where has this led us?  Now we have a housing crisis and unbearable grocery prices with millions of people having to go to food banks.  Even food banks are in a crisis in some cases.

The Liberals and left are worse than the conservatives.  They have no idea what the problem is while the problems is staring them in the face.   Massive bureaucracy and red tape regulations hampering private enterprise and growth.  We should never have got to the point where we are short millions of houses and accommodations.  I am sick of listening to liberal left politicians babble on TV every day because they have nothing to offer to rectify the situation.  The sad situation is far bigger than any one politician can solve.  

Now we hear the conservatives are accusing the government of planning to use temporary foreign workers to build the EV battery plants, that is, use Canadian taxpayer money to pay foreign workers.  The Liberals are denying this.  Of course they would deny it.  Who is telling the truth?

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

An example is literally in the next paragraph of mine that you quoted 

 

There is no definition of socialism in your next paragraph.  Not ANY definition - never mind one I supposedly made up.

So you couldn't even articulate one.  Well well well.

Soo... . just lying to distract again i see.  Well - there you go

Quote

A minority perhaps but more than a few. 

A few.
 

Quote

Absolutely false. Where is your evidence?

Absolutely true - and it's in the next paragraph of yours i quoted along with this alleged definiton of socialism i faked.  How about you actually provide cites other people  asked for before asking for your own?

Quote

More absolute falsehoods 

Sorry but absolutely true - AND it's made a resurgence and is hugely popular in europe among the left today again.  The left love the idea - much easier to sell than "Socialism" brand socialism and it works slightly better as well.

Quote

You clearly weren’t paying attention.

I was paying attention just fine. Here's what i said:

Vairous groups took sides mostly for political reasons and very much to test their latest military hardware.  

Which is true.  the volunteers you mentioned joined for political reasons. The us gov't gave fighter planes and other weapons to test them out.  Germany was TOTALLY in it to test out their new aircraft. It doesn't say anything about hitler being one way or another,  Nothing you posted actually disputes any of that.

And this is a trick we see you pull - when you can't argue with what's been said, you  pick something else that nobody said and argue viciously against that

I repeat - cool story, but nothing to do with hitler's motives.

Quote

But not everyone who is on “the left” was a communist or even a socialist. A desire for publicly funded programs and curbs on the exploration of workers, etc doesn’t derive from Marx or communism or socialism. Ancient Romans argued over these things. Marx coined the term “Communism” to describe a system that to this day has never existed on planet earth: a system where there are no longer any nation states and no governments, where people live in small communal groups something like an Israeli Kibutz or Amish/Mennonite communes and everyone has a say in how it is run and and an equal share in the community’s economic production. 

Well it depend how you define 'socialist' and 'the left' doesn't it.

Undoubtedly the left is characterized by putting more weight into "socialist' issues or issues that are seen as a benefit to society rather than the individual. I don't know that makes all people on the left 'Socailists"  - but certainly there's elements of that in their ideology.  And you can refer to that side of them as 'socialistic' or 'socialist'. 

Just as it would be wrong to say conservatives are all libertarians. But there is an element of that in their ideology and you could refer to that as their 'libertarian leanings' or the like.

 

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Nearly everyone in the western world who conservatives call “socialist” or “communist” or “Marxist” are in actuality capitalists who believe capitalism works best when it is well regulated and a when a base level of of public services are provided. 

You just defined market or 'democratic'  socialists     People who believe in a market but that it should be heavily regulated to benefit the 'publics' goals. Litearally word for word straight from hilter's mouth    The problem with hilter is he didn't think that society's interest was global warming or ending hunger or the like, he literally thought that society's best interest was to acquire resources and land through military conquest

But - if you set that aside the model itself is actually quite appealing to socialists of vairous degrees and "types" and many socialistic models incorporate a heavily regulated market.

I suppose it depends where you want to draw the line.  Even the vast majority of conservatives woudlnt' believe in a COMPLETELY unregulated market. At some point the regulation starts to creep to the point where it's less capitalistic and more socialistic.  I think when the regulation tilts towards supporting some social goal rather than focusing on creating a free and fair marketplace then it crosses that line.

[Legato]

[Queenmandy85]

11 minutes ago, blackbird said:

20% of Canadians vote for a Socialist party, the NDP.

 

The NDP is socialist, not communist.  I don't think you have a grasp on what communism is in theory or in practice. The NDP is CCF and basically the political wing of the Protestant church. Premier Douglas, Stanley Knowles, Ben Smiley, Peter Prebble etc. were all United Church ministers and prominent members of the NDP.

17 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Canadians are not believers in our historic Judeo-Christian culture

This is what I mean by the fading of Conservatism. Our Head of State is the Supreme Governor of the One True (Protestant) Faith. Yet, we have no Conservative Party federally, and only Provincial Conservative Parties in Eastern Canada and Manitoba. 

 

24 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Canada has an authoritarian government which is not far from Marxism in many ways.  They are attempting to even control what is put on social media through some new laws.

Censorship laws are not new. We see it in the schools with the control freaks making it illegal for a teacher to call a student by their preferred pronoun. We have socialist "conservatives" trying to censor the teaching of sex and gender education. in the past we have seen the censorship of books and films in Canada. What is being attempted in Canada today is the prevention of the spread of lies and hate on the internet. Do they get it right all the time? Of course not but you only have to look at the lies being spread to cripple people's understanding of science. It has nothing to do with marxism. Looking around the world today, there is only one communist state left. North Korea. All of the others gave up on communism and are now simple totalitarian autocracies or some who became democratic republics.

The fact that you posted your comment above and are not worried that you will suffer life altering repercussions is proof we are not living in a communist or marxist dictatorship. If we did, the Grits would not have to bend to the NDP's wishes. 

45 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The NDP is pushing hard for more Socialist programs such as Pharmacare and some want a guaranteed annual income.

Have you forgotten that the guaranteed annual income proposal was a major plank in the Conservative election platform when Bob Stanfield came within 100 votes spread across the nation to dethrone Pierre Trudeau. 

Do you seriously believe a government could survive abolishing government health care?