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Complicit in War Crimes


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4 hours ago, eyeball said:

You're maintaining there isn't a single Palestinian who wants peace? That's irrational. 

they are far and few between....you think those Palestinians who protest here in Canada want peace,  ask one of them...

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4 hours ago, eyeball said:

You're maintaining there isn't a single Palestinian who wants peace? That's irrational. 

If there is they are not the majority but rather the minority, this fighting has been going on since 1948, when are the peace loving Palestinians going to take a stand...answer is never...they been told to sit down and shut up, or take a bullet by Hamas...if they were the majority they would have stepped up by now...

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2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Owning is not the same as having to live with.

 

If you mean that they may die for it rather than, sure.  Either way they'll bear the consequence.

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People who say they intend to completely destroy Palestine will have to change their tune as well.

Well the thing is... they really don't. If they want to they can destroy Palestine.   What you mean perhaps is they should.  And honestly there appears to be a lot more support for that on the israeli side - the problem is trust more than it is a desire for peace.

But gaza isn't palestine, gaza is gaza.  And the gazans have made their own decisions and if they wish to survive they're best shot is to surrender now and turn over hamas.

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15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

If there is they are not the majority but rather the minority, this fighting has been going on since 1948, when are the peace loving Palestinians going to take a stand...answer is never...they been told to sit down and shut up, or take a bullet by Hamas...if they were the majority they would have stepped up by now...

Israelies have been persecuting the Palestinians since they existed, they do not want any peace because that would force them to withdraw from the territories they stole and force them to return refugees to Israel. They would like to kill as much Palestinians as they can, put the rest of them in a refugee camp and build luxury houses for Israelies in Gaza and in all the territory of Palestinians with the support of american pigs.

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1 hour ago, Gaétan said:

Israelies have been persecuting the Palestinians since they existed, they do not want any peace because that would force them to withdraw from the territories they stole and force them to return refugees to Israel. They would like to kill as much Palestinians as they can, put the rest of them in a refugee camp and build luxury houses for Israelies in Gaza and in all the territory of Palestinians with the support of american pigs.

Well that would all be true, if it wasn't a lie.

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3 hours ago, Gaétan said:

Israelies have been persecuting the Palestinians since they existed, they do not want any peace because that would force them to withdraw from the territories they stole and force them to return refugees to Israel. They would like to kill as much Palestinians as they can, put the rest of them in a refugee camp and build luxury houses for Israelies in Gaza and in all the territory of Palestinians with the support of american pigs.

If so, they have been doing a really lousy job because the Palestinian population has more than quintupled since 1950.

Edited by Aristides
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47 minutes ago, herbie said:

Nothing to do, nothing to eat, nowhere to go. What else to do but breed and ate the people on the other side of the fence.
 

Build businesses? Negotiate for better lives with neighbours after abandoning intention to kill them? Play sports and tell stories with your kids, etc etc ,

Any race that felt there was nothing to do there but breed and hate (i assume that was a typo or at least i sure as hell hope it was :) ) the people on the other side would be a failed race, not worthy of continuing on the planet.  There's a million ways you can build your life to be better, improve things for the next generation, make a life and a nation for yourself.

Hatred isn't "all you have" - hatred is a choice you make.  They could choose to make  a better life.  OR they could choose hatred and violence.

They made their choice. How's that working for them?

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9 hours ago, Gaétan said:

Israelies have been persecuting the Palestinians since they existed, they do not want any peace because that would force them to withdraw from the territories they stole and force them to return refugees to Israel. They would like to kill as much Palestinians as they can, put the rest of them in a refugee camp and build luxury houses for Israelies in Gaza and in all the territory of Palestinians with the support of american pigs.

You still don't get it....Palestinians want all of Palestine which includes the entire state of Israel...On countless occasions Israel has offered a 2 state solution but the Palestinian authority has refused every offer...THEY the Palestinian people do not want peace until the Jews have been driven out....

How does Israel respond to that....well your seeing that today, with Israelis troops routing out Hamas the terrorist group...and next it will be Hezbollah, and the rest of the freaks that want to kill jews.... Once your peace loving Palestinians stand up and throw off the yoke of Hamas then and only then will you see a cease fire and some peace....until then it is going to be combat boots, and machine guns....and the Israelis air force...But hey you and the rest of your buddies are more than welcome to go over and be a terrorist, put your balls where your mouth is...but you would rather sit in moms basement and chirp... becasue thats what chirpers do...support terrorist...

Canada's best course of action right now, would be to assist the world in getting rid of these terrorist groups once and for all....and to put Iran on notice that they will be next if they don't stop global terrorism....

 

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4 hours ago, herbie said:

Nothing to do, nothing to eat, nowhere to go. What else to do but breed and ate the people on the other side of the fence.
Stocked up lots of rockets, guns and weapons and run out of food, water and fuel within weeks. Priorities are pretty clear.

There are lots of water and food...rockets, guns and wing nut terrorist....watch the videos all of them look well feed and pretty clean, for living in a war zone...

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10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Canada's best course of action right now, would be to assist the world in getting rid of these terrorist groups once and for all....and to put Iran on notice that they will be next if they don't stop global terrorism....

 

The reason politicians say Hamas are terrorists is to 'justify' the genocide of the Palestinians. Hamas are vigilantes, terrorists are Israel's soldiers. They kill everyone, even Israeli hostages. The propaganda that the media has put in your head is the opposite of the truth.

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11 minutes ago, Gaétan said:

The reason politicians say Hamas are terrorists is to 'justify' the genocide of the Palestinians. Hamas are vigilantes, terrorists are Israel's soldiers. They kill everyone, even Israeli hostages. The propaganda that the media has put in your head is the opposite of the truth.

No, they are terrorist...that is undeniable...and those Palestinians or others that support terrorist are just as bad...

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57 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

No, they are terrorist...that is undeniable...and those Palestinians or others that support terrorist are just as bad...

The just supports the persecuted, if it were the Israelis who were persecuted I would support them, but it is the Palestinians who are the persecuted in this case. Hamas are not terrorists but vigilantes, Israeli settlers and their soldiers kill Palestinians every day, they are the terrorists, what Western politicians say are nothing but lies to turn a blind eye to a genocide, this are astral scum, NATO is the horned monster of the apocalypse.

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

the Palestinian people do not want peace until the Jews have been driven out....

How does Israel respond to that....

You've got it backwards, Palestine has been responding to Israelis driving Palestinians out. History didn't start on Oct 7.

If Canadians had been invaded, occupied and dispossessed 75 years ago and subjugated ever since is it fair to say you'd be advising we just submit to it?

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When the Palestinians rise up and disarm Hamas, toss them over the wall to the IDF and tell the Israelis they want to talk, i'll be sympathetic to their cause.

In the meantime they can plead their suffering to the cameras every night while we see the rockets still being launched in the background and pretend the IDF planted the guns and grenades in the hospitals and tunnels.

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We'll either have to arm the Palestinians or stop those who are arming Hamas if there's to be any hope of a revolution.

In the meantime Israel's right-wing won't stand for your sympathy anymore than they'll stop subjecting Palestine to colonization, dispossession and oppression. You'll merely be another anti-Semite for showing sympathy.

The only chance for peace in the ME is if secular left-wing Israelis throw out the religious zealots running their government.

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19 hours ago, eyeball said:

You've got it backwards, Palestine has been responding to Israelis driving Palestinians out. History didn't start on Oct 7.

If Canadians had been invaded, occupied and dispossessed 75 years ago and subjugated ever since is it fair to say you'd be advising we just submit to it?

No history did not start on Oct 7...you should really read some of that history...I know you can read...

in 1948, and every other invasion of Israel, the Palestinians have played a role...lets not forget once Israel was declared a state given to them by league of Nations and the UN assembly, (you know who they are right) Palestinian and surrounding Arab countries said F#ck that and invaded...there was to be no jews in what is today Israel...every since then they have been defending themselves....They took nothing, they were not force to...

Now you can sit there and make excuses on how poorly the Palestinian have it, and blame Israel for all there woes...when you know it is bullshit...Palestinians are masters at propaganda and lies...world opinion has already been swayed, where today Canada and most western countries are infested with these terrorist supporters....who don't want peace, they want everything including what is now Israel... death to all Jews... That is what you support, it is not peace, it is not a 2 state solution, what you support is pure terrorism with one goal , one objective killing Jews. And some how you want us to believe thats not a bit racist, you want to believe it is all Israel fault....that it is OK to kill all jews...

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17 hours ago, eyeball said:

We'll either have to arm the Palestinians or stop those who are arming Hamas if there's to be any hope of a revolution.

In the meantime Israel's right-wing won't stand for your sympathy anymore than they'll stop subjecting Palestine to colonization, dispossession and oppression. You'll merely be another anti-Semite for showing sympathy.

The only chance for peace in the ME is if secular left-wing Israelis throw out the religious zealots running their government.

Ya, thats the only solution, lets not deal with the terrorist in plain site, lets change the regime in Israel so that the terrorist can still kill jews when it suits them...

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19 hours ago, Gaétan said:

The just supports the persecuted, if it were the Israelis who were persecuted I would support them, but it is the Palestinians who are the persecuted in this case. Hamas are not terrorists but vigilantes, Israeli settlers and their soldiers kill Palestinians every day, they are the terrorists, what Western politicians say are nothing but lies to turn a blind eye to a genocide, this are astral scum, NATO is the horned monster of the apocalypse.

Sure, yup, sure.......does your mom know your off your meds again....Gaza is being torn down piece by piece, while routing out Hamas terrorist, and when this is over, Palestinians will have nothing but ruble to live in thanks to Hamas...another kick in the balls by their saviors...And NATO is the bad guy... 

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How large segments of the UNRWA have been have lost their neutrality, and now teach young Palestinian children to hate...while some of the UN organizations do good work this is another small example of how the UN really needs to be updated, and these programs shut down...UNRWA is fully funded by the UN and the donations from around the globe...Canadian tax dollars at work...time to stop this.  

 

 

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On 12/24/2023 at 4:04 PM, Army Guy said:

No history did not start on Oct 7...you should really read some of that history...I know you can read...

We don't share a common moral lens through which we view history together. And what history, who's version? We don't share a common set of historical facts from which our arguments could be based on either. 

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lets not forget once Israel was declared a state given to them by league of Nations and the UN assembly, (you know who they are right)

Sure I do but I'm afraid I can't in good conscience respect the authority of these institutions to give Palestine away -  because they ignored and failed to take into account what the people who lived there wanted and that's just all there is or ever will be to it AFAIC.  I don't have to support violence to understand why it happens and that understanding it doesn't condone it. Understanding certainly doesn't condone you associating me with this hateful nonsense; 

On 12/24/2023 at 4:04 PM, Army Guy said:

Now you can sit there and make excuses on how poorly the Palestinian have it, and blame Israel for all there woes...when you know it is bullshit...Palestinians are masters at propaganda and lies...world opinion has already been swayed, where today Canada and most western countries are infested with these terrorist supporters....who don't want peace, they want everything including what is now Israel... death to all Jews... That is what you support, it is not peace, it is not a 2 state solution, what you support is pure terrorism with one goal , one objective killing Jews. And some how you want us to believe thats not a bit racist, you want to believe it is all Israel fault....that it is OK to kill all jews...

Instead of doing what you just did I choose to point at the moral and ethical lapses that the league of Nations and the UN committed that created the conflict. I also regard that as being the best starting point of the truth, reconciliation and treaty process that will be needed to resolve things.  What I support is that this process be guided by and negotiated amongst secular left-wing Israelis and Palestinians. The religious conservatives currently in control of Israel and Palestine are the last people on Earth anyone should turn to.

Given Canada's experience, it's easy to see why Canada was asked to help design the system of colonization, oppression and subjugation that Israel used against the people who lived there.  I think it would be especially fitting if some of the intermediaries in the ME's truth, reconciliation and treaty process were chosen from amongst Canada's 1st Nations people.

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what you support is pure terrorism with one goal , one objective killing Jews

Right wing conservatives say that about lefties everywhere when the ME flares up, even in Israel Jews who speak out against Israel's government are called anti-Semites, so I'm in fine company thanks. You OTOH continually demonstrate why hard-boiled conservatives completely lack the moral and ethical background for ever resolving this.  It's not a history you need a refresher on you need to go all the way back to kindergarten.

In any case, I think any hope of resolving this peacefully is even generations further away now.  Climate change will far likelier be the mechanism by which its settled. 

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5 hours ago, eyeball said:

We don't share a common moral lens through which we view history together. And what history, who's version? We don't share a common set of historical facts from which our arguments could be based on either. 

Sure I do but I'm afraid I can't in good conscience respect the authority of these institutions to give Palestine away -  because they ignored and failed to take into account what the people who lived there wanted and that's just all there is or ever will be to it AFAIC.  I don't have to support violence to understand why it happens and that understanding it doesn't condone it. Understanding certainly doesn't condone you associating me with this hateful nonsense; 

Instead of doing what you just did I choose to point at the moral and ethical lapses that the league of Nations and the UN committed that created the conflict. I also regard that as being the best starting point of the truth, reconciliation and treaty process that will be needed to resolve things.  What I support is that this process be guided by and negotiated amongst secular left-wing Israelis and Palestinians. The religious conservatives currently in control of Israel and Palestine are the last people on Earth anyone should turn to.

Given Canada's experience, it's easy to see why Canada was asked to help design the system of colonization, oppression and subjugation that Israel used against the people who lived there.  I think it would be especially fitting if some of the intermediaries in the ME's truth, reconciliation and treaty process were chosen from amongst Canada's 1st Nations people.

Right wing conservatives say that about lefties everywhere when the ME flares up, even in Israel Jews who speak out against Israel's government are called anti-Semites, so I'm in fine company thanks. You OTOH continually demonstrate why hard-boiled conservatives completely lack the moral and ethical background for ever resolving this.  It's not a history you need a refresher on you need to go all the way back to kindergarten.

In any case, I think any hope of resolving this peacefully is even generations further away now.  Climate change will far likelier be the mechanism by which its settled. 

Absolutely, my moral lens is taken from the battle field, where i have seen first hand what terrorism is all about....living in Israel for 8 months also helps when you see both sides work up close and personal...it is not easy to have a unbias view when you see how this terrorism effects the whole of Israel and both cities of Gaza and west bank...Sorry but i've seen history and how Hamas reshapes it for it's own purposes...

So, you respect Palestinians rights who use to live there but those that lived side by side with those Palestinians get no considerations....those people that you said were not taken into account were given land of their own...to have their own state...but that all got thrown into the wind during the conflicts...along with a good portion of the Arab countries that exist today, who's creation was also made from the same documents and policies, opps we forgot about those countries...but they are not jewish...this conflict only has 2 sides, the line in the sand is drawn and you and me have taken sides...Supporting a terrorist cause in anyway is definitely not a good start. 

Unfortunately there is not enough of the left wing Israelis, or Palestinian that want peace...it is the majority that rule right now, so peace is not going to happen, until one prevails and the money is not on Palestinians...

Nobody on the inter national stage takes Canada seriously.. that ship sailed long ago...and sank under liberal rule...

being a conservative has nothing to do with it... did you see any of the gruesome pictures of what happened on oct 7...these were pure evil acts of terrorism grown out years of hatred...takes a psycho person to carry out those attacks, and Hamas is full of them, along with many Palestinians.. who also support killing Jews of any age or gender...thats my line in the sand... thats where my moral and values lie, if you can look into a infants crib, and shoot a baby...then your on the naughty list, and should be hunted down like a dog,  ..as for those supporters, those that enable hamas to do their sh*t like the majority of Palestinian people.. then you get what you get....

if there is to be any change it has to come from the Palestinian people, but they have not reached that point yet...and most likely will not... 

 

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@eyeball,  You are very picky and choosy over what history you FEEL like giving credence too and which authorities you CHOOSE to recognize (not that your opinion changes their ability or right to do anything).

Here's the simple fact - israel was created. You might not like that, but it was and the majority of people living there today were born after that time and in good faith that is their home. That is the law even in Canada - where if a home is transferred illegally it still belongs to the new owner (not kidding - look it up).   And there are strong moral and ethical reasons for that.

There is NO moral standing to make any claim as to why israel should be destroyed today based on that OR that it's ok or understandable to slaughter it's civilians.  And no matter how you slice it this is what you're claiming when you say 'History didnt' start today".    History is in the past, nobody can change it.  THe future is unwritten and cannot be known with certainty.  The only thing we can make decisions about is our actions today - and that is what gaza is being held to account for.

You can spin history any way you like. But at the end of the day the war started on 0ct 7th with the unprovoked and undeclared attack on civillians by invading forces from Gaza and they are paying that price.

Twist, turn, excuse, blame, gnash your teeth and rend your garments - that is still going to be the cast iron fact and the only people responsible for this war is Gaza.

So if you want to complain about the war or the deaths then first and formost you should be blaming them for starting it and blaming them for not ending it by surrendering and facing legal actions for what they have done.  Anything else is excusing their attack or claiming israel has no right to defend itself - both of which are unacceptable positions for decent people.

@Army Guy is right here, you are wrong.

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