Should Hamas support rallies in Canada be stopped?

[blackbird]

14 hours ago, taxme said:

Who knows what to believe anymore. 

Well that is a huge question.  I suppose we could write long essays on that.

In the very informative part of the article from Britannica encyclopedia I quoted above, I noticed that they mentioned how the Enlightenment thinkers in the late middle ages not only opposed Judaism, but they were opponents of Christianity.  Nothing wrong with disagreeing with something like Judaism or Islam.  But there is a fine line between disagreement and being hostile or anti-Semitic or persecuting Jews.  That is not civilized.

  I am not not a fan of Enlightenment thinkers that mock or reject Christianity.  They obviously never studied the Bible.  Or perhaps they were opposed to Rome's Papal version of Christianity, which is a false form of Christianity.  Unfortunately it is not Biblical Christianity.  But it was dominant throughout Europe for most of the past 1,700 years.  There may well have been some Christians among the populations.  

The world has always had an assortment of different people, Christians and non-Christians and many scoffers.  But the Britannica article is pure gold.  I have read many articles about everything under the sun, but I must say stumbling on this article was like finding gold or diamonds on the ground.  I sincerely hope you will give it some consideration.

"Even in France itself, emancipation did not end anti-Semitism but merely transformed it. With the emergence of nationalism as the defining factor in European society in the 19th century, anti-Semitism acquired a racial rather than a religious character as ethnically homogeneous peoples decried the existence in their midst of “alien” Jewish elements. Pseudoscientific theories asserting that the Jews were inferior to the so-called Aryan “race” gave anti-Semitism new respectability and popular support, especially in countries where Jews could be made scapegoats for existing social or political grievances. In this new climate, anti-Semitism became a powerful political tool, as politicians were quick to discover. In the 1890s Karl Lueger won the mayoralty of Vienna—a city of diverse culture and many Jews—with his anti-Semitic campaigns. In both Germany and Austria in the late 19th century, anti-Semitism became an organized movement with its own political parties."

Anti-Semitism - Medieval Europe, Prejudice, Persecution | Britannica

I know we agree about some things such as we oppose the massive immigration from the third world which is destroying our western values and civilization.  Perhaps we can find more to agree on.

Edited November 11, 2023 by blackbird

[OftenWrong]

19 hours ago, blackbird said:

Did you know the whole world was settled by colonization?

Yes it's true. How far back would you like to go?

I suggest give the region back to the Ottoman Turks. Things were quiet then for 400 hundred years. Jews were allowed to live in peace.

Then along came the British and the French with their superpower weaponry to carve up the region in WW1. The same people who are from the historical, ancestrally antisemitic regions of the EU and who've brought us to where we are today.

[I am Groot]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Yes it's true. How far back would you like to go?

I suggest give the region back to the Ottoman Turks. Things were quiet then for 400 hundred years. Jews were allowed to live in peace.

If you don't count the revolts which were put down with incredible bloodshed and slaughter. Or the bloodshed and slaughter done by the Turks because they merely suspected the loyalty of various groups, especially Christians. It's not surprising there's peace in North Korea given anyone who objects to anything gets killed.

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Then along came the British and the French with their superpower weaponry to carve up the region in WW1.

What did you want them to do? And btw, it was the UN that created Israel, not the Brits.

 

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The same people who are from the historical, ancestrally antisemitic regions of the EU and who've brought us to where we are today.

If you don't think there were anti-Jewish pograms throughout the history of the middle east you really aren't conversant with the history there.

[OftenWrong]

8 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

If you don't count the revolts which were put down with incredible bloodshed and slaughter. Or the bloodshed and slaughter done by the Turks because they merely suspected the loyalty of various groups, especially Christians. It's not surprising there's peace in North Korea given anyone who objects to anything gets killed.

What did you want them to do? And btw, it was the UN that created Israel, not the Brits.

 

If you don't think there were anti-Jewish pograms throughout the history of the middle east you really aren't conversant with the history there.

Oh yeah, forgot how this info may hurt those of English descent, esp. if of the "sensitive persuasion."

[taxme]

20 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

It actually needs to be explained to you why Nazis can’t be trusted to give accurate history?  LOL

You really take advantage of the lack of moderation on this site to troll hard, eh?

Can your beloved Israel be trusted ever? Israeli history has nothing in it to brag about. It's a shitty little country that has been a thorn in the worlds side. What is Israel good for anyway? Can you tell me anything that is so good about Israel? Just asking. ?

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Oh yeah, forgot how this info may hurt those of English descent, esp. if of the "sensitive persuasion."

Forgot how to counter anything they say, too. Dude, if you just know nothing whatever about the Ottoman Empire or how Israel was created, then just don't talk about it. How hard is that?

Edited November 11, 2023 by I am Groot

[taxme]

16 hours ago, blackbird said:

No.  I gave a link to Encyclopedia Britannica.  This encyclopedia has been published since 1768.  It is not gibberish but is probably a highly respected source of information.

Anti-Semitism | History, Meaning, Facts, & Examples | Britannica

The article says in part:

"Anti-Semitism in modern Europe

The end of the Middle Ages brought little change in Jews’ position in Europe, and the Catholic Reformation renewed anti-Jewish legislation and reinforced the system of ghettoized segregation in Roman Catholic countries. Jews remained subject to occasional massacres, such as those that occurred during wars between Eastern Orthodox Ukrainians and Roman Catholic Poles in the mid-17th century, which rivaled the worst massacres of Jews in the Middle Ages. Periodic persecutions of Jews in western Europe continued until the late 18th century, when the Enlightenment changed their position, at least in the West. It did not necessarily reduce anti-Semitism. Although the major Enlightenment figures championed the light of reason in debunking what they regarded as the superstitions of Christian belief, their thinking did not lead to any greater acceptance of Jews. Instead of holding Jews responsible for the Crucifixion, Enlightenment thinkers blamed them for the advent of Christianity and for the injustices and cruelty committed by followers of monotheistic religions. Some of the most prominent, including Denis Diderot and Voltaire, pilloried the Jews as a group alienated from society who practiced a primitive and superstitious religion.

Until the French Revolution of 1789, the status of Jews in Europe remained tenuous. Treated as outsiders, they had few civil rights. They were taxed as a community, not as individuals. Exclusion from the larger society reinforced their religious identity and strengthened their communal institutions, which served judicial and quasi-governmental functions. In the French Revolution, with its promise of liberty, equality, and fraternity, the rights of citizenship were extended to Jews. Still, respect and rights were conditioned on the willingness of Jews to abandon their age-old customs and their communal identity. This was the meaning of the slogan “To the Jews as individuals everything, to the Jews as a people, nothing.”

France was the vanguard of the movement that gave civic and legal equality to the Jews. Napoleon’s conquest of the German states led to emancipation in some of them, but after his defeat, Jews faced a series of legal setbacks. Full emancipation of Jews throughout Germany came only with the unification of Germany in 1871.

Even in France itself, emancipation did not end anti-Semitism but merely transformed it. With the emergence of nationalism as the defining factor in European society in the 19th century, anti-Semitism acquired a racial rather than a religious character as ethnically homogeneous peoples decried the existence in their midst of “alien” Jewish elements. Pseudoscientific theories asserting that the Jews were inferior to the so-called Aryan “race” gave anti-Semitism new respectability and popular support, especially in countries where Jews could be made scapegoats for existing social or political grievances. In this new climate, anti-Semitism became a powerful political tool, as politicians were quick to discover. In the 1890s Karl Lueger won the mayoralty of Vienna—a city of diverse culture and many Jews—with his anti-Semitic campaigns. In both Germany and Austria in the late 19th century, anti-Semitism became an organized movement with its own political parties."

There has to be more than just hating Jews because they do so well? My personal opinion is that i believe that Jews just do not like gentiles because they just hate anyone that is not Jewish. This bible quote that says that Jews are god's chosen people as really gone to their heads. I believe that white gentiles are god's chosen people. The world would not be a better place to live if it were not for white gentiles. Just my opinion of course. ?

[blackbird]

56 minutes ago, taxme said:

There has to be more than just hating Jews because they do so well?

Of course there is more to it than that.  I assume you didn't bother reading the Britannica encyclopedia article on the history of anti-Semitism.  I gave the link several times and posted parts of it.  

The Jews were God's chosen people in the Old Testament times, and he still has a plan for them.  I don't think it "went to their head".  It's not the Jew's fault for being chosen by God for a special purpose.   If you read the history article you would see the anti-Semitism was very common and even became a major political force.  It happened but had nothing to do with what they thought as individuals.  It had more to do with the fact man has a corrupt, evil heart.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Can your beloved Israel be trusted ever?

But you're on their side right?  FFS.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Forgot how to counter anything they say, too. Dude, if you just know nothing whatever about the Ottoman Empire or how Israel was created, then just don't talk about it. How hard is that?

I am trying to figure out the root causes that lead to the messed up place we find ourselves in today.

How's you're day goin?

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I am trying to figure out the root causes that lead to the messed up place we find ourselves in today.

Religion, politics and then more politics... without end.

[CdnFox]

48 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Religion, politics and then more politics... without end.

And dishonesty. 

[DUI_Offender]

On 11/11/2023 at 2:59 PM, taxme said:

Can your beloved Israel be trusted ever? Israeli history has nothing in it to brag about. It's a shitty little country that has been a thorn in the worlds side. What is Israel good for anyway? Can you tell me anything that is so good about Israel? Just asking. ?

Technology, computers, jewellery.

[DUI_Offender]

On 11/11/2023 at 8:05 AM, OftenWrong said:

Yes it's true. How far back would you like to go?

I suggest give the region back to the Ottoman Turks. Things were quiet then for 400 hundred years. Jews were allowed to live in peace.

After the Ottomans took over the region in the 1500's the population fell to historical lows.  There were only 200,000 people in Palestine for the first half of the 19th century.  There were only around 5,000 Jews in the region.  It was not until the end of the 19th Century when Jews and Arabs from other areas of the Middle East started to migrate to Palestine.

[eyeball]

On 11/11/2023 at 5:24 PM, CdnFox said:

And dishonesty. 

What happened to you man, who got to you?

Can't you just pretend Santa still exists?

[CdnFox]

29 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What happened to you man, who got to you?

Can't you just pretend Santa still exists?

Oh - and derailment of threads  forgot their favorite  

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

After the Ottomans took over the region in the 1500's the population fell to historical lows.  There were only 200,000 people in Palestine for the first half of the 19th century.  There were only around 5,000 Jews in the region.  It was not until the end of the 19th Century when Jews and Arabs from other areas of the Middle East started to migrate to Palestine.

Oh yeah? It's not what I read, Billy.

"The Ottoman Empire became a safe haven for Jews from the Iberian Peninsula fleeing persecution (see Alhambra Decree). By the end of the 16th century, the Ottoman Empire had the largest Jewish population in the world, with 150,000 compared to Poland's and non-Ottoman Ukraine's combined figure of 75,000."

Jews moved there to escape European persecution in 1500. Same old same old, I guess.

There's a lot more here to refute your claims-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

 

You and Not-So-Groot can read it, get edumacated.

Fill yer boots

[DUI_Offender]

38 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Oh yeah? It's not what I read, Billy.

"The Ottoman Empire became a safe haven for Jews from the Iberian Peninsula fleeing persecution (see Alhambra Decree). By the end of the 16th century, the Ottoman Empire had the largest Jewish population in the world, with 150,000 compared to Poland's and non-Ottoman Ukraine's combined figure of 75,000."

Jews moved there to escape European persecution in 1500. Same old same old, I guess.

There's a lot more here to refute your claims-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

 

 

You do realise that I was referring to the area of Palestine, which was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, not the entire area that the Ottoman's ruled over (Turkey, Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc). 

 

 

 

This is a map of the Ottoman Empire in the 19th Century. You may want to reread my post.

Edited November 13, 2023 by DUI_Offender

[OftenWrong]

7 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

You do realise that I was referring to the area of Palestine, which was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, not the entire area that the Ottoman's ruled over (Turkey, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc). 

 

 

 

This is a map of the Ottoman Empire in the 19th Century. You may want to reread my post.

Well maybe if you explained yourself better when you write, we wouldn't be wasting our time on this.

Doesn't matter anyway. Is irrelevant to the larger point about how we got into this mess and who started it.

From here it looks to me like things weren't so bad under the Ottomen for like a couple of centuries. Sure, you did anything untoward and they would chop your head off, but so what. People are gettin heads chopped off still today. And we in this country, do business with them.

[DUI_Offender]

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

 

From here it looks to me like things weren't so bad under the Ottomen for like a couple of centuries. Sure, you did anything untoward and they would chop your head off, but so what. People are gettin heads chopped off still today. And we in this country, do business with them.

Things were not bad when the Holy Land was ruled under the Ottomans, since there was virtually nobody living in the area.  The population was over 90% Muslim as well.  Today, there are nearly 15 million people in Israel and the Occupied Territories, with 7.7 million Jews and 7 million Arabs. 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by DUI_Offender

[CITIZEN_2015]

No ceasefire till Hamas is completely destroyed.

VICTORY TO ISRAEL.

[CdnFox]

39 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No ceasefire till Hamas is completely destroyed.

VICTORY TO ISRAEL.

You sure changed your tune.

[CITIZEN_2015]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You sure changed your tune.

I am not sure why you say that. That is why we debate here to change minds.

On my very first post on the day of Hamas attack, I said victory to Israel and I say the very same thing now. On the ceasefire when I asked for it, you said Hamas wants to use ceasefire to re-organize and then attack again. I was convinced so now I oppose it. So you would have preferred if I stubornly stuck to ceasefire now even though I was convinced it was not right just because at the beginning I said so?

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am not sure why you say that. That is why we debate here to change minds.

 

Fair point.

[taxme]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:11 PM, blackbird said:

Of course there is more to it than that.  I assume you didn't bother reading the Britannica encyclopedia article on the history of anti-Semitism.  I gave the link several times and posted parts of it.  

The Jews were God's chosen people in the Old Testament times, and he still has a plan for them.  I don't think it "went to their head".  It's not the Jew's fault for being chosen by God for a special purpose.   If you read the history article you would see the anti-Semitism was very common and even became a major political force.  It happened but had nothing to do with what they thought as individuals.  It had more to do with the fact man has a corrupt, evil heart.

You enjoy spreading crap, don't you? So, when your god created life and humans on earth, did your god create Jews and gentiles? Were we the gentiles way back when divided and meant to now be separated from the Jews and are now meant to have to bow down and kiss the ring of the Jews forever because god preferred Jews over gentiles? In the beginning, i thought that we were all as one? No Jews, no gentiles, just one? 

So, if your god chose Jews to be the head honchos, then your god can go kiss my white gentile butt. This is like having two children in the family, where one child gets to be treated better than the other child? What kind of god is your god anyway? Why would a god choose one human being over another? Some loving and caring god.

I don't know as to what you are trying to preach here, but look around you? Your god has been sitting on his butt for tens of centuries now while mankind has been suffering for all those centuries. Where is your gods mercy and why does your god hate gentiles? You have pretty much convinced me now that what i have learned from you is that Jews the chosen ones do run and rule the world.  At least I know where we gentiles stands now. In the chosen ones chit. Way the go, sachmo. ?