Hundreds of trans teens under 18 have had breasts removed in Canada, new data show

[CdnFox]

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/canada/transgender-top-surgery-canadian-children/wcm/ceed8d49-95d4-42ff-b682-d88ddf32aec3

Hospitalizations and day surgery visits for bilateral mastectomies for gender reassignment surgery have risen sharply, from 536 in 2018-19, to 985 in fiscal 2022-23, according to data compiled for National Post by the Canadian Institute for Health Information.

Of the 4,071 visits in total involving gender-affirming mastectomies or breast reductions reported since 2018, 602 involved youth 18 and under.

Of those, 303 involved teens 17 and younger. The youngest age was 14.

The numbers tell only part of the story.

 

That's permanent life altering surgery being done on basically kids.

Some of those kids as young as 14. 

But parents don't have a right to know and there's no concern about later complications or regrets, according to the left.

[Nexii]

Also no proof of regret rates in the entire article, just speculations

The right wants to assume that more harm is being done than good which is not the case

What about the regret rates for those that didn't receive medical care soon enough in life? I don't think most people can imagine what a fake childhood feels like. 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Nexii said:

Also no proof of regret rates in the entire article, just speculations

Well those stats are out there and they're not zero.

Quote

The right wants to assume that more harm is being done than good which is not the case

I have seen nothing that indicates that mutilating kids is a net benefit. You would have to make that case or show some species of reasoned argument that was compelling, and so far i've not seen anyone even try (not that my research is exhaustive or anything)

Quote

What about the regret rates for those that didn't receive medical care soon enough in life? I don't think most people can imagine what a fake childhood feels like. 

I'm sure there's going to be suffering either way. It's an illness and there's no easy fix.  And for those who are genuinely dysphoric it's going to be a misery. 

But the data shows that it's frequently misdiagnosed. That goes up significantly when society tries to make it sound 'cool' so to speak. And some groups, such as teachers, have been seen to actually promote or push kids towards that kind of diagnosis. Thats' the first problem. And the pain of living the rest of your life as a 'fake' or damaged person is probably worse than just a childhood.

The second problem is I haven't seen a single long term study showing the results are a true benefit. To be blunt - the studies i've seen suggest more strongly that a supportive family  and social network has a bigger impact. And i've seen nothing to suggest that transition surgery at 19 is somehow radically less effective than at 14.

I have sympathy for the pain Trans people go through. I know what it's like to be different. And supporting surgeries when the person has reached an age where tehy can make decisions for their own future that are permanent is one thing and i can support that.

But mutilating kids "for their own good" just has never turned out well in history and i see nothing so far that compells me to believe that it's a better idea here than letting them get a little older first.  If there's specific cases where it would be then i think two doctors certified in that area of expertise should sign off on it as being absolutely necessary, and in that case fine, but i think that should be rare, not the average. 

It's gotten way too political to be able to consider it as a medical issue only.

 

[Canadian_Cavalier]

Children cannot get tattoos.

Children cannot smoke cigarettes.

Children cannot consume alcohol.

Children cannot drive cars.

Children cannot gamble.

But children can consent to irreversible sex reassignment surgery?

[CdnFox]

16 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

Children cannot get tattoos.

Children cannot smoke cigarettes.

Children cannot consume alcohol.

Children cannot drive cars.

Children cannot gamble.

But children can consent to irreversible sex reassignment surgery?

And that sums it up nicely.   We don't let children choose their bedtime but we'll let them choose their gender?

For that argument to fly a case will have to be made that is extremely compelling that says those kids would suffer real and irreversible harm that is GREATER than the real and irreversable harm of cutting off body parts.   And to date i have never seen anyone make that case.

[Nationalist]

This whole thing is disgusting. Anyone who let's a child or teen alter their sexual physiology should be jailed for child abuse.!

[Zeitgeist]

45 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And that sums it up nicely.   We don't let children choose their bedtime but we'll let them choose their gender?

For that argument to fly a case will have to be made that is extremely compelling that says those kids would suffer real and irreversible harm that is GREATER than the real and irreversable harm of cutting off body parts.   And to date i have never seen anyone make that case.

Well two LGBTQ+ activist groups that are very well funded by our federal taxes fought and defeated Saskatchewan’s attempt to require the informing of parents of kids under 16 who ask the school to use new names and pronouns.  The vast majority of the public are against this, but the academic and legal world is dominated by left wing activists, quite far left actually.

This is why we’re seeing populist uprisings and protests: The people running our institutions, including our schools, are heavily influenced by very militant and well prepared activists.  The pharmaceutical and biomedical industries stand to benefit from it.  Politicians with an interventionist, totalitarian bent like it because it further empowers the state and disempowers parents.

Having seen the prevalence of LGBT symbolism in educational institutions, including in the constitutionally protected Catholic system, it’s easy to see indoctrination at play.  There are more rainbow flags in some Catholic schools now than crucifixes.  It looks and feels like a cult. The symbols and gender affirmation came without much discussion.  Now when it’s questioned, the gender ideology activists talk about suicidal kids afraid to come out of the closet.  The teen suicides I’ve seen in my field over decades have not once referenced gender identity as a reason.

What’s more, it makes sense that students who experience dysphoria feel confused and suffer more mental illnesses than kids who don’t.  Some of them are autistic.  Many of them are gay and trying to reconcile that with their sexual identity.  For many, the dysphoria passes in a few years.  To apply surgical procedures and affirm new identities behind parents’ backs seems reckless at best.  Parents must be included in the medical decisions of children, barring real probability of abuse.

There are indeed activists who push kids to take radical actions.  I’ve worked with them.  They think they’re helping and they don’t think much about parents’ roles in these decisions.  It looks a lot like grooming.  The governments of Saskatchewan and New Brunswick aren’t asking much, other than that parents be allowed to parent their kids.  Almost always, no one cares more about a child than the child’s parents.

Our governments and institutions have been somewhat hijacked by these activists.  Anyone who opposes them is portrayed negatively in most media, but thankfully the public isn’t completely buying in this time.  

Edited September 30, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

But children can consent to irreversible sex reassignment surgery?

Of course not. Doctors still need their parents consent.

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Of course not. Doctors still need their parents consent.

They don't actually

[eyeball]

49 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They don't actually

Bullshit

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Bullshit

Sigh - well post the law then.  Post the law that says kids under 18 require parental consent.

I think you're a lying sack of crap who would happily sacrifice children rather than tell the truth if it suits your echo chamber agenda but by all means - post the law and prove me wrong.  Or don't and prove me right.

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Sigh - well post the law then.  Post the law that says kids under 18 require parental consent.

F**k you. That's not how it works. If there were surgeons performing major surgery on kids without parental consent in the numbers you're suggesting the news would be filled with stories about malpractice suits.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

F**k you. That's not how it works.

ROFLMAO - that's EXACTLY how it works

Let me guess - you did a bit of digging and found out I was right, and now you're pissed because you backed yourself into a corner with your bullshit

I totally called it - you are a lying sack of crap and now everyone gets to see it    and you wonder why everyone calls you a liar

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

1. Children cannot get tattoos.

2. Children cannot smoke cigarettes. Children cannot consume alcohol.

3. Children cannot drive cars.

4. Children cannot gamble.

5. But children can consent to irreversible sex reassignment surgery?

1. With parental consent.
2. That is because public health recognizes it's a negative health outcome for the child.
3. Yes they can without parental consent.
4.  That is because public health recognizes it's a negative health outcome for the child.
5. With parental consent.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. With parental consent.
 

Which is not required to start many gender transformation proceedures

Quote

2. That is because public health recognizes it's a negative health outcome for the child.

Public health recognizes that it's a negative health benefit to slice off someone's boobs or penis.

 

Quote

3. Yes they can without parental consent.

No they can't, not on public roads. And you know that's what he meant.

Quote

4.  That is because public health recognizes it's a negative health outcome for the child.

See my comments about cutting off boobs.

 

Quote

5. With parental consent.

And without in many cases.  Look it up.

[Michael Hardner]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2808129#:~:text=Importance There has been increasing,heavily on ad hoc instruments.

1% regret rate for trans surgery

What is the regret rate for breast implants - which is more common in teens than trans surgery...

And why have we NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT ?

[herbie]

I'd like to see actual statistics for teen mastectomies that has the 'reason for surgery' spelled out. I highly doubt that is even recorded.

I say this as I was twice married to women that had tits so big they asked their doctors for breast reductions when they were teens. Both were told no, both found out when they were adults that ir was 'elective surgery' and could not afford it. Both suffered from back pain their adult lives from carrying around two watermelon size boobs their whole lives. Add on they could never grab a $20 bra at WalMart, the custom fitted ones were north of $100.

I can believe hundreds of mastectomies were performed on teens, that is not a lot out of 20 million Canadian women. That they were done because of 'trans' reasons, I cannot even if every one had parental consent.

Edited September 30, 2023 by herbie

[CdnFox]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2808129#:~:text=Importance There has been increasing,heavily on ad hoc instruments.

1% regret rate for trans surgery
 

That's pretty high. That's a lot of ruined lives for kids.  And some studies put it much higher.

Quote

What is the regret rate for breast implants - which is more common in teens than trans surgery...

I don't think children should be getting breast augmentation surgery either.

 

Quote

And why have we NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT ?

We hear about it all the time - a lot of those kids are males transiting to females.

[CdnFox]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/2808129#:~:text=Importance There has been increasing,heavily on ad hoc instruments.

1% regret rate for trans surgery
 

That's pretty high. That's a lot of ruined lives for kids.  And some studies put it much higher.

Quote

What is the regret rate for breast implants - which is more common in teens than trans surgery...

I don't think children should be getting breast augmentation surgery either.

 

Quote

And why have we NEVER HEARD ABOUT THAT ?

We hear about it all the time - a lot of those kids are males transiting to females.

[Nexii]

1% is incredibly low. It would be 1% regret rate for almost any surgery or medical procedure. But we aren't discussing ending those procedures.

I will say the process of getting on the 'transition track' or whatever does need some reform. It's far too touchy-feely and not based on questions backed on scientific case studies.

But that doesn't mean the whole thing needs to be banned. There are all sorts of less than perfect medical procedures that we still do. Why is trans medicine held to an impossible standard? I'd say it's because the right just isn't comfortable with the idea of it. 

And yes, it should be 18+ for transition surgeries but not for the reasons the right claims (like mental maturity). It should be 18+ because your body is still developing. Results are not as ideal if done too young. 

 

[Nexii]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

I'd like to see actual statistics for teen mastectomies that has the 'reason for surgery' spelled out. I highly doubt that is even recorded.

I say this as I was twice married to women that had tits so big they asked their doctors for breast reductions when they were teens. Both were told no, both found out when they were adults that ir was 'elective surgery' and could not afford it. Both suffered from back pain their adult lives from carrying around two watermelon size boobs their whole lives. Add on they could never grab a $20 bra at WalMart, the custom fitted ones were north of $100.

I can believe hundreds of mastectomies were performed on teens, that is not a lot out of 20 million Canadian women. That they were done because of 'trans' reasons, I cannot even if every one had parental consent.

Unless you have cancer or are trans you aren't getting a mastectomy. You would get breast reduction surgery. They are different surgeries. 

That being said, your point is correct. They're including both here which is super disingenuous.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And without in many cases.  Look it up.

That's your job.

[Nexii]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

F**k you. That's not how it works. If there were surgeons performing major surgery on kids without parental consent in the numbers you're suggesting the news would be filled with stories about malpractice suits.

Yea you have to sign a ton of waivers and paperwork even as an adult to get these types of surgeries. Surgeons understandably have to mitigate their risks to stay in business. Patients are made very aware of the risks involved. 

I doubt any surgeons in Canada go against WPATH standards (16+) due to liability. They can at least say they followed WPATH standards. I suspect there would be zero mastectomies done younger than 16 for reasons of being trans, but the article doesn't actually tell us the true story. Like most of these right moral-panic type articles they don't even have their facts straight before making an argument

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's your job.

No - that's your job. You're the one who claimed it's illegal.

But you can't. Because you were wrong even tho you insisted you were right.

I did look it up before i commented.  Which is why I knew i could catch you lying about it    pretty simple,

25 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Yea you have to sign a ton of waivers and paperwork even as an adult to get these types of surgeries. Surgeons understandably have to mitigate their risks to stay in business. Patients are made very aware of the risks involved. 

I doubt any surgeons in Canada go against WPATH standards (16+) due to liability. They can at least say they followed WPATH standards. I suspect there would be zero mastectomies done younger than 16 for reasons of being trans, but the article doesn't actually tell us the true story. Like most of these right moral-panic type articles they don't even have their facts straight before making an argument

Well the news reported that there was but 16 is still a kid. Sorry.  So if you're saying 16 year olds can get their breasts hacked off without parental consent - thats' still kids having life altering surgeries without their parents knowledge or consent and that's a problem.

And i still haven't seen you present ANYTHING that suggests the harm of not doing it is worse than the obvious harm doing it.

[Nexii]

I did say that I think WPATH is wrong about mastectomies being special at 16. Every other reassignment surgery is 18+.

They probably argue something like that girls develop faster and breasts are a secondary sex characteristic.

Though who knows for sure. There's never any rationale given for any of this stuff. Whether it's from WPATH, provincial health bodies, or even politicians. That's the scary thing, everyone just has an opinion but it's never based on medical science and trying to achieve good outcomes. It's based around what's popular...what's popular isn't always what's best.

Remember just a generation ago gay marriage wasn't popular.