CPC Policy Convention 2023

[ExFlyer]

Just now, blackbird said:

Sorry to have to tell you, but you are not in the category of "grown ups".  You are incapable of a rational, respectful conversation.  Your modus operandi is insults.  Sometimes the truth must be told.

As Poeye said, I am, what I am .

I am certaintly not a bible thumping zero that has no leg to stand on in this discussion.

My modu operandi" is telly you what is reality. Your "modus operandi" is deflection each time you get your foot caught in your mouth

And yes, when you want the truth, and get it, you slap the bible in peoples faces.

So, as for grown ups, well,they do not punch the bible for all their answers. We choose experience, facts and research.

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, Nexii said:

I didn't say they should get everything for free, just that Starlink is a less costly option. Of course the apartheid system should be blown up and ended but no party has the will to call it what it is. Perhaps because Canadians can't even see it for what it is. 

That's true.  It would be difficult to end the existing system because so many FNs are totally dependent on government funding to exist.  That's the problem.  I don't know how it can be solved.  Not overnight anyway.  Would take decades, but I don't know if we are even moving in that direction.  They need to become self-supporting somehow.

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Just googled Starlink since you mentioned the name, and found out how much it costs for individual service.

"

Starlink is a division of SpaceX that offers satellite internet service to Canada and the rest of the world. The company recently expanded services throughout much of Canada, with only a few areas that are not yet part of its coverage map.

Starlink’s $140/month Residential plan delivers unlimited data and download speeds up to 150Mbps, making it a great option for those in remote areas looking for faster internet service."

Starlink Internet Canada Review 2023: Plans, prices, and speeds | WhistleOut

When you consider the costs of living in some remote native village in the far north, it adds up to a lot of money.  Housing, groceries, health care, education, etc.  is prohibitively expensive.  And FNs expect government to provide and pay for everything.   So add another $140 a month to the bill and many Canadians in towns and cities across Canada begin to ask where are all these services for them?  Why should natives or anyone living in some remote village receive everything for free while the other 40 million Canadians have to struggle to survive and now can't even afford the rent or to buy a home?  The whole idea of providing free everything to some Canadians and not the other 40 million is a non-starter for many.  It's just not a popular idea.

So, how do you get starlink? You don't just stick your rabbit ears out the window Dude LOL

You need infrastructure, equipment and service. Ya think Elon Musk is going to give to you that for nothing???

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

As Poeye said, I am, what I am .

I am certaintly not a bible thumping zero that has no leg to stand on in this discussion.

My modu operandi" is telly you what is reality. Your "modus operandi" is deflection each time you get your foot caught in your mouth

And yes, when you want the truth, and get it, you slap the bible in peoples faces.

So, as for grown ups, well,they do not punch the bible for all their answers. We choose experience, facts and research.

Whatever makes you feel good, go for it.

[ExFlyer]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

Whatever makes you feel good, go for it.

Oh blackbird, I always feel good, especially when you have to eat your words LOL

Edited September 12, 2023 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  Ok.  So how would PP solve inflation, disunity, climate issues, growth & trade challenges for example ?

 

He has MANY tools and choices.  Reductions in wasteful spending.  better control of immigration, reworking trade agreements by using a competent negotiator instead of freeland and NOT dressing up to mock that country's clothing , the choices are endless

I would imagine what he finally goes with will depend a little on what the final situation is at election time. Who can say how much more trudeau will screw the country.

 

Quote

3. "red tape" is a kind of buzzword that pure wool politicians use.  Yes, maybe there is something that can be done here but the devil is in the details.  I have heard that word used before, I want to know more.  Also tax cuts require service and/or program cuts - what is going to be cut?  And Immigration cuts is something I could support but that will bring other problems for the economy.

Red tape is a buzzword and it's worth pointing out that I used it to paraphrase his statements, it's not what he used.

But bureaucracy is very real, and it is insanely expensive.  And yes it has gotten worse. So there's no "Maybe" there - it comes up again and again in politics because the moment you stop fighting it, it creeps back.

And no - it is very simplistic to say that spending cuts mean service cuts.  Things like NOT spending hundreds of millions on a useless border app would be an example   You can use web and ap tools to automate and simplify many gov't services including passports - a thing the passport offices begged the gov't to do.

However - there are undoubtedly some "Services" we can cut that don't affect our lives very much. CBC comes to mind.

As far as immigration goes - cutting it back will solve a hell of a lot more problems than it causes - in the short term. It's not a long term solution, our very structure will cause homes and resources to reduce to the new level within about 3 years.  So you have to do more. But - it would buy the time for longer term fixes.

 

Quote

4. Ideology is just public-image-building - on both sides of the coin.

Nope.  Only the libs base their entire operations on it.  the cpc tends to fit it in where they can but still stick to good governance. But for the trudeau libs, it's all they have. And that's the difference.

Quote

5. Your assessment is very high-level.  It sounds like business as usual back to Chretien: small changes, and mostly manage perceptions and politics.  

More like the harper era.  Remember chretien cut medial transfers and looted the ei fund for 70 billion while downloading bills to the provinces.

Harper focused on doing the business of gov't - doing trade deals, protecting our interests, and using VERY targeted changes in tax and other policy to encourage investment and growth while cutting unnecessary spending.
 

Quote

Edited to add: If Canada is SO screwed up why do we only need minor changes ?

The difference between staying on the road  and driving off the cliff is often only a few degrees turn of the steering wheel.  Small change - big difference.

[blackbird]

20 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Oh blackbird, I always fee lgood, especially when you have to eat your words LOL

Did you know according to the King James Bible there is a hell and a heaven?  Ignoring it doesn't change the fact.

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Did you know according to the King James Bible there is a hell and a heaven?  Ignoring it doesn't change the fact.

More bible thumpin BS. How sad that is all ya got. LOL

Go preach to someone that cares because I certainly do not LOL (dougie the murderer worshipper is a recent convert LOL)

[blackbird]

The existence of hell is well-documented in the King James Bible.  Let us not fool ourselves or be deceived by others.  Hell is a real place just as heaven is a real place.  Jesus spoke clearly about hell.  See Mark 9:43  KJV.  Jesus was raised from the dead and seen by many eyewitnesses.  This proves what he said is true.

"

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

John 3:16-18 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.   (Read More...)

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mark 9:43-48 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:   (Read More...)

Matthew 13:50 - And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 - Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Psalms 145:20 - The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

Matthew 5:22 - But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,   (Read More...)

Revelation 14:11 - And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Luke 16:19-31 - There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:   (Read More...)

Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. "

BIBLE VERSES ABOUT HELL (kingjamesbibleonline.org)

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

The existence ....

What BS.

The King James bible, utter hearsay and full of rhetorical stories and BS.

[blackbird]

19 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

What BS.

The King James bible, utter hearsay and full of rhetorical stories and BS.

"

How Can We Know That the Bible is from God?
Miska Wilhelmsson | March 13, 2018

When Jesus walked the earth about 2000 years ago, He was faced with a very similar question when the people who heard Him teach wondered if His teaching was truly from God. Jesus answered them by giving this simple, yet profound answer, “...My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.” (John 7:16-17) We can apply this same principle to knowing that the Bible is truly from God. All those who desire to obey God will know by the very words of the Bible that it is indeed from God himself.

This is an astonishing argument, since most people would claim that simply hearing Jesus’ teaching could never be enough. They would have to see miracles before they could believe Him to be from God. Jesus even challenged his hearers to believe because of the miracles He had performed (John 14:11). Yet, did everyone believe in Jesus when they saw these undeniable miracles? No, even when faced with miraculous proof, many remained in their unbelief. The reason for this is found in Jesus’ original answer—­only those who truly want to do God’s will shall know the truthfulness of Christ’s message (John 7:17).

The Bible itself is sufficient proof for all who desire to know if it is from God. This can be clearly seen in a story that Jesus told about a rich man and Lazarus, found in Luke 16:19-31. As Jesus concludes the parable, He explains that if they will not believe the message of the Word of God based on its inherent authority, neither will they believe that message if an undeniable miracle was performed. The Bible itself is all the proof that is needed; it is self-authenticating. There is no need for additional proofs or miracles to establish the authority of God’s Word. It stands on its own."

How Can We Know That the Bible is from God? (tms.edu)

As for the King James Bible itself, the proof has been well established.  It is the only version based on the majority text or Received Text.  

The King James Bible is the Perfect Word of God - Her High Calling

 

[eyeball]

47 minutes ago, blackbird said:

As for the King James Bible itself, the proof has been well established.  It is the only version based on the majority text or Received Text. 

What would really clinch it is if the King James Bible itself could be found written in the cosmic microwave background. Like credits in a movie or something.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

"

How Can We Know That the Bible is .....

 

not a bunch of BS???

Oh wait, we can get another preaching from blackbud LOL

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What would really clinch it is if the King James Bible itself could be found written in the cosmic microwave background. Like credits in a movie or something.

or written in thirty-foot high letters of fire on top of the Quentulus Quazgar Mountains in the land of Sevorbeupstry on planet Preliumtarn, third out from the sun Zarss in Galactic Sector QQ7 ActiveJ Gamma and guarded by the Lajestic Vantrashell of Lob.

Or something.

[Queenmandy85]

On 9/7/2023 at 7:14 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

And then on Defence spending:

"The Conservative Party of Canada supports Canada’s membership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) and the principle of collective security. A Conservative Government will work towards spending at least the NATO recommended two (2) percent of our GDP on National Defence. As an Indo-Pacific nation, Conservatives support Canada joining the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue (QUAD Group) for strategic military cooperation, as well as charting a path to membership in the new elite defence pact AUKUS.

 

The Conservative Party of Canada believes that it is a fundamental purpose of Canadian defence policy to:

1. Defend our democratic freedom and territorial integrity, as it is the highest obligation of our federal government.

2. Preserve our current obligations, regionally and internationally.

3. Join forces with our allies, when in Canada’s best interests, to defend the rights and freedoms of

peoples throughout the world.

The Conservative Party of Canada will ensure Canada’s defence policy uses our foreign policy in guiding Canada’s national defence priorities. Defence starts at home and the threat environment has increased beyond our capabilities. Conservatives will meet these threats head-on by modernizing the Canadian Armed Forces.

The Conservative Party of Canada supports increasing resources for the military in the Canadian North in defence of our northern sovereignty and security, including improving detection and response capability, and creating local benefits including multi-user, multi-purpose infrastructure that leaves a positive legacy for northern communities.

Defending our territorial integrity is the most important role for Canada's military and the CPC has promised to build up the CAF to fulfill that role. I am all for it. They also promise to do so with modernizing the Forces. I assume, that means modern equipment in sufficient quantity to perform its role. No arguement from me.

The optimum purpose of a viable military is to never have to use it. 

Where I see a problem, they are also promising to cut taxes.

I could use ArmyGuy and Doug to lend their expertise to correct my estimates.

Okay, a modern arial combat aircraft costs between $50 million to $90 million each, or almost 2 billion per squadron. A strategic Bomber costs about $650 million each, or $13 billion for a single squadron. 

Then there is the RCN. $3.5 billion for a single destroyer. A nuclear submarine $3 billion.

A Main Battle Tank costs $11 million each, or over $800 million for a single Armoured Battalion.

Then you have all the support units, all ranks, plus material support.

Add to that, our 2% of GDP or $56 billion worth of combat assets in Europe in support of NATO.

Abolishing the CBC would save enough money to buy half a fighter squadron, but the tax cuts will eat into what you can put into the defence budget. The resolution to defend Canada is going to cost a lot of money. We cannot cut enough money from other government spending to make a dent in it. It will also require conscription. Just the NATO commitment will need $20 billion more than what we spend on Defence in total.

I cannot see Mr. Poilievre implementing this resolution.  Once again, National Defence will end up in the bin.

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[I am Groot]

On 9/11/2023 at 10:38 PM, Nexii said:

Absolutely they will, it's been very effective twice. And it will be a third time, CPC just handed them a ton of fuel with this convention. 

CPC would have been better off not having the policy convention at all. All it did was highlight that the Reform wing of the party still exists to the rest of Canada.

If you think the trans issue is going to hurt the Tories you haven't been paying attention. It's not just hard-right conservatives who think it's gone way too far, it's almost everyone but progressives. 

[I am Groot]

On 9/12/2023 at 9:30 AM, Nexii said:

The gender pronoun thing in schools on its own, probably not. But the whole host of proposed trans resolutions like segregated areas, no medical care for teens, and so on could weigh on the CPC quite a bit. 

It will help them.  99% of those who will be upset with them on these issues would never have voted conservative anyway. And it will help them pick up a lot of votes among ethnic/immigrant groups in the cities.

Edited September 13, 2023 by I am Groot

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

It will help them.  99% of those who will be upset with them on these issues would never have voted conservative anyway. And it will help them pick up a lot of votes among ethnic/immigrant groups in the cities.

It probably will get a lot of immigrant voters who have since become citizens to look at the cpc a lot more favorably.

I don't know if it'll help MUCH - but it's not going to hurt.

Everyone was fine with gays and trans when it was "stay out of THEIR bedrooms and let them do their thing".  But now that' it's more like "Stay out of our chidlren's bedrooms and let us be parents",  all kinds of people got beef with them.

[Queenmandy85]

I don't recall a political situation like this as long as I have been watching Canadian federal politics. The opposition party is poised to make a grand sweep, remenicent of Deifenbaker and Mulroney, only this is not mid campaign but two years out. The situation for the governing party has deteriorated to the point where Liberal MP's are beginning to call for a new leader. When the crew of the ship asks the captain to relinquish command after it is going down by the bow, it is just a tad late. That being said, it is too soon for Mr. Singh to be measuring curtains at Stornaway.

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

It will help them.  99% of those who will be upset with them on these issues would never have voted conservative anyway. And it will help them pick up a lot of votes among ethnic/immigrant groups in the cities.

I would hope the CPC would not be trying to use this issue in a cynical reach for votes at the expense of the well being of the people who will be seriously negatively impacted by this. I can forgive people who supported this resolution out of ignorance, but to knowingly hurt people just to get a few votes is unforgivable.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I would hope the CPC would not be trying to use this issue in a cynical reach for votes at the expense of the well being of the people who will be seriously negatively impacted by this. I can forgive people who supported this resolution out of ignorance, but to knowingly hurt people just to get a few votes is unforgivable.

But you're thrilled when the liberals weaponize these same people to score virtue points, which is what creates this situation in the first place.

It was the liberals who decided to make this a divisive and exclusionary issue and cast anyone who raised concerns as 'evil'.  So - those people are now fighting back, and demanding some political protection. 

PP is pretty lgbt-friendly, but of course the party is going to listen to those who are furious about having been attacked and want corrective measures.  I doubt it'll go too far tho.

And if you don't like cynical reaching for votes- maybe bring that up when the liberals are doing it as a 'no no'.  Once the pot gets stirred its really too late to say 'ok, NOW lets stop'.

 

[blackbird]

6 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I would hope the CPC would not be trying to use this issue in a cynical reach for votes at the expense of the well being of the people who will be seriously negatively impacted by this. I can forgive people who supported this resolution out of ignorance, but to knowingly hurt people just to get a few votes is unforgivable.

How could it hurt anyone?  You don't think teaching little kids in school they can be whatever gender they choose and transition is not harmful?  Parents have had enough.  They demand to know what is going on.

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

 Parents have had enough.  

This is dishonest.

Polls show that parents support all of the provisions of the LGBTQ curriculum.

Informing them of pronouns is a new idea, and yes it's broadly supported.

I'm pretty sick of dishonest arguments, hopefully Canadians are also.

[Nexii]

16 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I don't recall a political situation like this as long as I have been watching Canadian federal politics. The opposition party is poised to make a grand sweep, remenicent of Deifenbaker and Mulroney, only this is not mid campaign but two years out. The situation for the governing party has deteriorated to the point where Liberal MP's are beginning to call for a new leader. When the crew of the ship asks the captain to relinquish command after it is going down by the bow, it is just a tad late. That being said, it is too soon for Mr. Singh to be measuring curtains at Stornaway.

I think Trudeau will be ousted. It's not just the party numbers but that upwards of 75% polled think he needs to step down.

[Legato]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is dishonest.

Polls show that parents support all of the provisions of the LGBTQ curriculum.

 

One poll and @50%