CPC Policy Convention 2023

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The CBC resolution was voted down so the CBC is safe for now. Would Mr. Poilievere actually go against the wishes of the Party? I know he said the resolutions are not binding but is this one going to be that important to him? Of course the issues he will face when he assumes office will be very different.

Maybe PP can find a way to tone down the CBC's liberal / woke slant.  A public broadcaster should be serving all Canadians, not just the liberal/woke/left.  They are being funded by all Canadians.  I don't know how it could be done, but it might require major changes.  It would be difficult to change.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, I am Groot said:

The CPC never brought up social issues in any of the previous elections. The Liberals brought them up and the media ran with them. I suspect they'll try to do the same this election.

That is the truth. I don't think it'll go as well this time though.

[Aristides]

22 minutes ago, blackbird said:

 

As you can see in my "discussion" with ExFlyer, he was adamant that telecommunications companies were not installing it.  He insultingly claimed that the government was connecting people to the internet.  So I simply pointed out government does not do that kind of work but it is done by companies.  In the end he insults me some more, calls me names, and says it is immaterial who does the physical work.  All through this useless discussion, I was simply pointing out that the companies do the work.  He changed his tune (with more name calling) and finally admits government does not install anything.  But the whole thing is he only uses these forums as an opportunity to insult and call people names.  A total waste of time.

Well I don't know what your point is. Of course it is done by companies and those companies also sub contract work to other companies. 

Even if you "build" your own home you are either hiring a contractor to do the whole project and look after subbing out jobs to other independent contractors or will have to do that yourself unless you personally so proficient in all the trades that you can do them yourself.

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, Aristides said:

Well I don't know what your point is. Of course it is done by companies

You were not following the discussion.  He claimed that the government provided the internet service.  I was simply trying to point out that it is done by telecommunications companies.  He either couldn't accept that, or was pretending he did not believe it so that he could carry on insulting and name calling.  I kind of think that was his purpose.  Total waste of time.  I don't see much point in that kind of conversation.

[Aristides]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You were not following the discussion.  He claimed that the government provided the internet service.  I was simply trying to point out that it is done by telecommunications companies.  He either couldn't accept that, or was pretending he did not believe it so that he could carry on insulting and name calling.  I kind of think that was his purpose.  Total waste of time.  I don't see much point in that kind of conversation.

They are providing it. If I buy something for someone, I'm providing it. I still don't know why you would even make a point of bringing it up. Like the government is personally building our new fighters and frigates.

[Nexii]

40 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The CPC never brought up social issues in any of the previous elections. The Liberals brought them up and the media ran with them. I suspect they'll try to do the same this election.

Absolutely they will, it's been very effective twice. And it will be a third time, CPC just handed them a ton of fuel with this convention. 

CPC would have been better off not having the policy convention at all. All it did was highlight that the Reform wing of the party still exists to the rest of Canada.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

You were not following the discussion.  He claimed that the government provided the internet service.

If the gov't is spec'ing it, paying for it, providing the rights of way and the land - the gov't is providing it.

Your argument is like saying that I"m not the one who provides a paycheque for the family because technically the bank handled the transaction.

You're being silly. The gov't is ensuring that all people have access to internet and that's been going on for several gov'ts now.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

Absolutely they will, it's been very effective twice. And it will be a third time, CPC just handed them a ton of fuel with this convention. 

CPC would have been better off not having the policy convention at all. All it did was highlight that the Reform wing of the party still exists to the rest of Canada.

Yeah - that whole 'democracy' thing is a b*tch    We're not liberals for god's sake, we don't just tell people what they want to hear.

We've had two leaders who were terrible at campaigns. Scheer's campaign was arguably one of the worst i've ever seen and erin was just too wishywashy - he did well at first but then he spent 4 days flip flopping and looking like a spineless goon on the gun issue and spend his last two weeks unable to answer a single question about "where's kenny" which is all the media asked.

This will not be the same. PP is a VERY strong campaigner. And he's like the terminator - he never stops, he never quits, he never gives up... he just keeps coming till he gets you. 

At this point PP is fairly well established and he's growing stronger every week.  They didn't give the libs a bunch of material. The libs invent their own and throw everything at the wall to see what sticks and i think htey're going to find PP is pretty teflon. He's already been through their whole 'smear' thing and it's not stopped him one bit.  The thing about the 'smear' card is if you use it all the time,  when people get sick of it - it totally backfires on you.  You just sound like a loser and a whiner. And that's how trudeau is coming across today.

The election is a long way off and anything can happen but - even if justin were to step down i think it's likely going to be a PP majority at this point.

[Nexii]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah - that whole 'democracy' thing is a b*tch    We're not liberals for god's sake, we don't just tell people what they want to hear.

We've had two leaders who were terrible at campaigns. Scheer's campaign was arguably one of the worst i've ever seen and erin was just too wishywashy - he did well at first but then he spent 4 days flip flopping and looking like a spineless goon on the gun issue and spend his last two weeks unable to answer a single question about "where's kenny" which is all the media asked.

This will not be the same. PP is a VERY strong campaigner. And he's like the terminator - he never stops, he never quits, he never gives up... he just keeps coming till he gets you. 

At this point PP is fairly well established and he's growing stronger every week.  They didn't give the libs a bunch of material. The libs invent their own and throw everything at the wall to see what sticks and i think htey're going to find PP is pretty teflon. He's already been through their whole 'smear' thing and it's not stopped him one bit.  The thing about the 'smear' card is if you use it all the time,  when people get sick of it - it totally backfires on you.  You just sound like a loser and a whiner. And that's how trudeau is coming across today.

The election is a long way off and anything can happen but - even if justin were to step down i think it's likely going to be a PP majority at this point.

PP is already getting wishy washy about social issues. He can't be like Scheer and O'Toole and dodge taking a stance because that won't go over. If there's anything people fear it's the unknown. 

The convention was a disaster for the Cons. Their sole trans candidate dropped out of the party over it and is all over the media already. 

Going down the social issue path will be their ruin. While the western evangelicals will pat themselves on the back, it will hurt their chances in Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic regions. The Reform were never popular out here for a reason

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Nexii said:

CPC would have been better off not having the policy convention at all. All it did was highlight that the Reform wing of the party still exists to the rest of Canada.

The Reform wing seems quaint and old fashioned compared to the deplorable wing.  It's the Reform wing on meth.

[CdnFox]

49 minutes ago, Nexii said:

PP is already getting wishy washy about social issues.

Like what? 

Quote

The convention was a disaster for the Cons. Their sole trans candidate dropped out of the party over it and is all over the media already. 

Nobody cares about it.  And if you think that was an unsuccessful convention you're new to politics.  It was strong, the party came away more united, the speech was very well received and the base is motivated. The media cycle is going to be about 5 minutes and forgotten in a week.  Nobody will care by the next election.  But the party did get some important feed back on other issues and most importantly everyone got a say. Donations will be strong and the supporters motivated - perfect for recruiting and training the next group of election volunteers.

Quote

Going down the social issue path will be their ruin. While the western evangelicals will pat themselves on the back, it will hurt their chances in Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic regions. The Reform were never popular out here for a reason

Sorry but some social issues DO exist and you can't dodge them.  But the CPC isn't going down the social route at all.  Frankly all the indicators are that taking a strong stance on parental rights will reap vastly more votes than it'll lose. If that's what trudeau wants to fight the next election on he'll get slaughtered.  Ask bud lite about how fed up the people are about hearing night and day about trans issues. The activists have overplayed that and as we can see from the polling on the parental rights issue that and pride stuff is taking a severe beating and people are sick of it.

Looks like he's more interested in trying to revive the climate change fight, but polling suggests that's a losing fight for him too.  Short of a pandemic there's not going to be a lot of areas where he hasn't done as bad or worse than he's threatening the cpc will do.  And people care about food and homes more.

 

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The Reform wing seems quaint and old fashioned compared to the deplorable wing.  It's the Reform wing on meth.

LOL - its so cute when you pretend to talk politics   I wonder if they make a barbie house of commons we could get for you?

[Nexii]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The Reform wing seems quaint and old fashioned compared to the deplorable wing.  It's the Reform wing on meth.

Same old Reform as in the 90s. Only it's more shocking today because they're now 50 years behind the times instead of only 20

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, Nexii said:

 

Going down the social issue path will be their ruin. 

I find it hard to imagine that with the scale of challenges facing the country, the issue of informing parents about pronouns with be a leading issue in an election.

People are sick of Trudeau's face and voice, so it's time to rotate the chairs again.

That's good for Poilievre.  What's bad is that his snappy insults won't help with Canadians' expectations once he gets in.  And unless he's hiding some huge new vision from us, or maybe the wars, economic, environmental, trade, demographic, and health challenges will just disappear the honeymoon will be short.

[ExFlyer]

10 hours ago, blackbird said:

 

As you can see in my "discussion" with ExFlyer, he was adamant that telecommunications companies were not installing it.  He insultingly claimed that the government was connecting people to the internet.  So I simply pointed out government does not do that kind of work but it is done by companies.  In the end he insults me some more, calls me names, and says it is immaterial who does the physical work.  All through this useless discussion, I was simply pointing out that the companies do the work.  He changed his tune (with more name calling) and finally admits government does not install anything.  But the whole thing is he only uses these forums as an opportunity to insult and call people names.  A total waste of time.

Never said that.

I provided links as to what the government is doing.

Never said anything about who was doing the physical work. That seems to be something that is stuck up your a$$.

The only thing insulting is you and your interpretation.

blackturd, stick to thumping your bible. Let grown ups discuss important things. (yes, that was an intended insult)

Edited September 12, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Nexii]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I find it hard to imagine that with the scale of challenges facing the country, the issue of informing parents about pronouns with be a leading issue in an election.

People are sick of Trudeau's face and voice, so it's time to rotate the chairs again.

That's good for Poilievre.  What's bad is that his snappy insults won't help with Canadians' expectations once he gets in.  And unless he's hiding some huge new vision from us, or maybe the wars, economic, environmental, trade, demographic, and health challenges will just disappear the honeymoon will be short.

The gender pronoun thing in schools on its own, probably not. But the whole host of proposed trans resolutions like segregated areas, no medical care for teens, and so on could weigh on the CPC quite a bit. Maybe not abortion or same sex marriage levels of revulsion, but it could definitely get there.

It's a shame that parties don't set their own term limits on leaders. 10 years or something, it's very hard to win after that long in office anyways.

[Michael Hardner]

31 minutes ago, Nexii said:

1. ... it could definitely get there.

2. It's a shame that parties don't set their own term limits on leaders. 10 years or something, it's very hard to win after that long in office anyways.

1. I don't see how.  Maybe the hormones question but 'segregated areas' ... bathrooms and changerooms ... we have more important things to discuss than that.  Municipalities can deal with it.

2. 5/23 PMs have been in office more than ten years.  Only Chretien this century.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I find it hard to imagine that with the scale of challenges facing the country, the issue of informing parents about pronouns with be a leading issue in an election.

People are sick of Trudeau's face and voice, so it's time to rotate the chairs again.

That's good for Poilievre.  What's bad is that his snappy insults won't help with Canadians' expectations once he gets in.  And unless he's hiding some huge new vision from us, or maybe the wars, economic, environmental, trade, demographic, and health challenges will just disappear the honeymoon will be short.

There's no need for a "huge new vision"  - most of our problems can be solved just by normal vision, if trudeau would ever stop to clean his woke glasses he'd see that 

Now obviously he's not going to talk about what his plans are at this stage. Have to be the absolute worst most incompetent politician to start talking about details two years away from an election. The details are what you talk about When the election starts. N

 

But he's already laid out the broad strokes remove bureaucracy and red tape which hinders our development and productivity cut taxes strategically to encourage Investment and productivity gains, push the provinces and lead the country when it comes to new housing builds, reduce and target immigration to make sure that we don't bring in more people than we can support and the people that we bring in are useful. And obviously work towards a balanced budget again in time.

There's nothing radical there. Terribly fancy. Wasteful spending and manage your budget. Don't follow ideology over facts

He'll do fine. People are already turning to him. Happy hard once he gets in to make positive changes. He will look good if he just doesn't screw up every other day compared to Trudeau.

 

 

[blackbird]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You're being silly. The gov't is ensuring that all people have access to internet and that's been going on for several gov'ts now.

Actually that's not true.  The government has been promising for years, decades that people in every remote Indian village will have high speed internet, but it has failed to deliver.  Government pressure telephone companies and internet providers to build the infrastructure but are not so keen to pay for it.  There is no money in it for companies to provide a multi-million dollar service to timbuktoo, but government keeps trying to figure ways to get companies to provide it.  It cost hundreds of millions of dollars.  It still is not done.  

The fact is people think government should provide them everything in remote communities like Timbuktoo,  housing, food, high speed internet, smart phones, schools, hospitals, advanced medical care,  etc. etc.   You name, government is expected to provide it to a village of ten people in the Liberal/left world.  There is not enough money to do all that.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

What's bad is that his snappy insults won't help with Canadians' expectations once he gets in.  And unless he's hiding some huge new vision from us, or maybe the wars, economic, environmental, trade, demographic, and health challenges will just disappear the honeymoon will be short.

We know you are a woke liberal pretending to be a conservative.  PP 's comments are not "harsh" as you claim.  He speaks the truth in the language that draws support.  That's how politicians have to speak to be successful.  That's just how politics works.  Trudeau is the biggest fake and divider that ever existed.  So what are you talking about?  If anyone talks "harshly",  it is Trudeau.  He has made endless divisive comments in the process of wrecking this country.

[Nexii]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Actually that's not true.  The government has been promising for years, decades that people in every remote Indian village will have high speed internet, but it has failed to deliver.  Government pressure telephone companies and internet providers to build the infrastructure but are not so keen to pay for it.  There is no money in it for companies to provide a multi-million dollar service to timbuktoo, but government keeps trying to figure ways to get companies to provide it.  It cost hundreds of millions of dollars.  It still is not done.  

The fact is people think government should provide them everything in remote communities like Timbuktoo,  housing, food, high speed internet, smart phones, schools, hospitals, advanced medical care,  etc. etc.   You name, government is expected to provide it to a village of ten people in the Liberal/left world.  There is not enough money to do all that.

Of course there's not enough money. That's why apartheid failed in South Africa, it costed too much. It wasn't so much social as economic.

I would have thought Starlink would cover most rural areas by now at less cost? Running fiber up in the North has to cost a fortune.

 

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Of course there's not enough money. That's why apartheid failed in South Africa, it costed too much. It wasn't so much social as economic.

I would have thought Starlink would cover most rural areas by now at less cost? Running fiber up in the North has to cost a fortune.

 

Just googled Starlink since you mentioned the name, and found out how much it costs for individual service.

"

Starlink is a division of SpaceX that offers satellite internet service to Canada and the rest of the world. The company recently expanded services throughout much of Canada, with only a few areas that are not yet part of its coverage map.

Starlink’s $140/month Residential plan delivers unlimited data and download speeds up to 150Mbps, making it a great option for those in remote areas looking for faster internet service."

Starlink Internet Canada Review 2023: Plans, prices, and speeds | WhistleOut

When you consider the costs of living in some remote native village in the far north, it adds up to a lot of money.  Housing, groceries, health care, education, etc.  is prohibitively expensive.  And FNs expect government to provide and pay for everything.   So add another $140 a month to the bill and many Canadians in towns and cities across Canada begin to ask where are all these services for them?  Why should natives or anyone living in some remote village receive everything for free while the other 40 million Canadians have to struggle to survive and now can't even afford the rent or to buy a home?  The whole idea of providing free everything to some Canadians and not the other 40 million is a non-starter for many.  It's just not a popular idea.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

1. most of our problems can be solved just by normal vision, if trudeau would ever stop to clean his woke glasses he'd see that 

2. Now obviously he's not going to talk about what his plans are at this stage. 

3. But he's already laid out the broad strokes remove bureaucracy and red tape which hinders our development and productivity cut taxes strategically to encourage Investment and productivity gains, push the provinces and lead the country when it comes to new housing builds, reduce and target immigration to make sure that we don't bring in more people than we can support and the people that we bring in are useful. And obviously work towards a balanced budget again in time.

4. There's nothing radical there. Terribly fancy. Wasteful spending and manage your budget. Don't follow ideology over facts

5. He'll do fine. People are already turning to him. Happy hard once he gets in to make positive changes. He will look good if he just doesn't screw up every other day compared to Trudeau.

 

 

1.  Ok.  So how would PP solve inflation, disunity, climate issues, growth & trade challenges for example ?
2. Agreed.
3. "red tape" is a kind of buzzword that pure wool politicians use.  Yes, maybe there is something that can be done here but the devil is in the details.  I have heard that word used before, I want to know more.  Also tax cuts require service and/or program cuts - what is going to be cut?  And Immigration cuts is something I could support but that will bring other problems for the economy.
4. Ideology is just public-image-building - on both sides of the coin.
5. Your assessment is very high-level.  It sounds like business as usual back to Chretien: small changes, and mostly manage perceptions and politics.  

Edited to add: If Canada is SO screwed up why do we only need minor changes ?

Edited September 12, 2023 by Michael Hardner

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Never said that.

I provided links as to what the government is doing.

Never said anything about who was doing the physical work. That seems to be something that is stuck up your a$$.

The only thing insulting is you and your interpretation.

blackturd, stick to thumping your bible. Let grown ups discuss important things. (yes, that was an intended insult)

Sorry to have to tell you, but you are not in the category of "grown ups".  You are incapable of a rational, respectful conversation.  Your modus operandi is insults.  Sometimes the truth must be told.

[Nexii]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Just googled Starlink since you mentioned the name, and found out how much it costs for individual service.

"

Starlink is a division of SpaceX that offers satellite internet service to Canada and the rest of the world. The company recently expanded services throughout much of Canada, with only a few areas that are not yet part of its coverage map.

Starlink’s $140/month Residential plan delivers unlimited data and download speeds up to 150Mbps, making it a great option for those in remote areas looking for faster internet service."

Starlink Internet Canada Review 2023: Plans, prices, and speeds | WhistleOut

When you consider the costs of living in some remote native village in the far north, it adds up to a lot of money.  Housing, groceries, health care, education, etc.  is prohibitively expensive.  And FNs expect government to provide and pay for everything.   So add another $140 a month to the bill and many Canadians in towns and cities across Canada begin to ask where are all these services for them?  Why should natives or anyone living in some remote village receive everything for free while the other 40 million Canadians have to struggle to survive and now can't even afford the rent or to buy a home?  The whole idea of providing free everything to some Canadians and not the other 40 million is a non-starter for many.  It's just not a popular idea.

I didn't say they should get everything for free, just that Starlink is a less costly option. Of course the apartheid system should be blown up and ended but no party has the will to call it what it is. Perhaps because Canadians can't even see it for what it is.