Dirty Doug’s Den of Deplorable Developer Deals

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Bottom line is whistle blowers have protection in Canada dude, (or dudette).

well.  That's not very inclusive is it.  What about the dudites?  And the do wap ditties? And the duderonomies?

Sensitivity training for you young man - march!

 (LOL - Couldn't resist. Aww don't look at me like that. Hey - i didn't know you owned guns.  Is that a magazine... ya know what ima head out now.... )

[ExFlyer]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

well.  That's not very inclusive is it.  What about the dudites?  And the do wap ditties? And the duderonomies?

Sensitivity training for you young man - march!

 (LOL - Couldn't resist. Aww don't look at me like that. Hey - i didn't know you owned guns.  Is that a magazine... ya know what ima head out now.... )

Sorry, not all up on the new pronouns, or more precisely, cannot keep up with the new pronouns  LOL

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Sorry, not all up on the new pronouns, or more precisely, cannot keep up with the new pronouns  LOL

ExCUSE me!?!?!   We call them PRE nouns nowadays mister (miss/zir/deeplewarf/attackhelecopter)   PRO noun is exclusive to amateur gender enthusiasts.

[TreeBeard]

11 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Bottom line is whistle blowers have protection in Canada dude, (or dudette).

"Section 425.1 of the Criminal Code, for example, states that employers may not threaten or take disciplinary action against, demote or terminate an employee in order to deter him or her from reporting information regarding an offence he or she believes has or is being committed by his or her employer to the relevant law enforcement authorities.

In short, an employer cannot threaten an employee with negative repercussions to deter them from contacting law enforcement with information about their employer’s offence. Punishment for employers who make such threats or reprisals can include up to five years imprisonment and/or fines."

I don’t disagree.  But quoting American sources and then claiming they’re Canadian makes you look….  sloppy. 

[ExFlyer]

8 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

I don’t disagree.  But quoting American sources and then claiming they’re Canadian makes you look….  sloppy. 

It was not an American source. I am sorry for not linking it but, It was a Canadian source.

[BeaverFever]

On 8/13/2023 at 9:55 AM, BeaverFever said:

I wonder how many will simply flip the property and cash in 

Once again myself for truth. Already one property owner caught trying to flip the greenbelt land that Doug gifted them.  And the owner is a company based in ….wait for it…CHINA  Can I call these things or what?  

Of course it was the mainstream media, not the Ford government which discovered the attempted sale and Doug had to scramble to get ahead of the story and put a stop to it. Even tha Auditor’s report couldn’t figure out who the real owner of the land was and wrongly name a consultant hired by the owner to do the paperwork. Just goes to show the total lack of due diligence by the Ford government in these dirty dealings 

Ontario begins process of returning 2 Ajax properties to Greenbelt

  

Housing ministry says move comes after owner listed them for sale without informing province

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6952509

 

And in related news, the Ontario Integrity Commissioner has determined that the Housing Minister violently the Integrity Act and recommended that he face a formal reprimand. But of course the fact that Ford won’t  redo the deals or punish his own minister dor what is AT LEAST gross negli of kot actual malfeasance only shows that he’s in on the scam 

 

Reprimand housing minister over Greenbelt land swap: Ontario integrity watchdog

 

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6952133

Edited August 31, 2023 by BeaverFever

[CdnFox]

20 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Once again myself for truth. Already one property owner caught trying to flip the greenbelt land that Doug gifted them.  And the owner is a company based in ….wait for it…CHINA  Can I call these things or what?  

Of course it was the mainstream media, not the Ford government which discovered the attempted sale and Doug had to scramble to get ahead of the story and put a stop to it. Even tha Auditor’s report couldn’t figure out who the real owner of the land was and wrongly name a consultant hired by the owner to do the paperwork. Just goes to show the total lack of due diligence by the Ford government in these dirty dealings 

Ontario begins process of returning 2 Ajax properties to Greenbelt

  

Housing ministry says move comes after owner listed them for sale without informing province

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6952509

 

And in related news, the Ontario Integrity Commissioner has determined that the Housing Minister violently the Integrity Act and recommended that he face a formal reprimand. But of course the fact that Ford won’t  redo the deals or punish his own minister dor what is AT LEAST gross negli of kot actual malfeasance only shows that he’s in on the scam 

 

Reprimand housing minister over Greenbelt land swap: Ontario integrity watchdog

 

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6952133

Wait - so you're saying there was a process in place that if they sold and didn't develop they lose the land and it's returned to the green belt?

 

Sooooo.. doesn't that kind of say you were wrong? That they are protected against flipping and they have to be developed?

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Wait - so you're saying there was a process in place that if they sold and didn't develop they lose the land and it's returned to the green belt?

 

Sooooo.. doesn't that kind of say you were wrong? That they are protected against flipping and they have to be developed?

Nope nowhere did anyone say there was a process in place. The opposite in fact. What’s happening now is all panicked reaction to to a media breaking story while they’ were already been taking an ass-pounding on this issue.  If there had been any sort of process in place they would have known who the owner was and what their intentions were before awarding them with this land grab.   And if you saw the add the owner had put up, it said the lot was ideal for residential OR COMMERCIAL use, and suggested buyers could “plan Ajax’s next business park”.  So not just flipping it, flipping for potentially non-residential use. 

[CdnFox]

47 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Nope nowhere did anyone say there was a process in place. The opposite in fact. What’s happening now is all panicked reaction to to a media breaking story while they’ were already been taking an ass-pounding on this issue.  If there had been any sort of process in place they would have known who the owner was and what their intentions were before awarding them with this land grab.   And if you saw the add the owner had put up, it said the lot was ideal for residential OR COMMERCIAL use, and suggested buyers could “plan Ajax’s next business park”.  So not just flipping it, flipping for potentially non-residential use. 

The media broke this a while ago.  But - obviously there is a process and they were able to deal with it. So the developer isn't getting away with anything.

And no - if anything the fact they don't know the owner as you say strongly suggests the land wasn't just pulled out of the reserve for his rich friends.

And if i had a buck for every time someone selling a property lied in their ads (even just the ones i know about) i'd be able to buy his property

 But these types tend to get caught in the end - which happened here.  It doesn't matter how straight up a deal is or not there's going to be mor-ons who abuse it and it sounds like they took care of this one pretty quick.

[BeaverFever]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:52 AM, CdnFox said:

But - obviously there is a process and they were able to deal with it. So

They gave an order to release the land from the greenbelt and now they’re canceling their order.We have no idea whether thats as easy as pushing a button or whether staff will be meeting with lawyers for the next month trying to figure out how to undo this land grab. Just because Doug barked “camel my order” doesn’t mean  that a process was in place and in fact  the total lack of due diligence, Amato’s resignation and the AG and IGs scathing reports all show there was no process in place. 
 

On 8/31/2023 at 12:52 AM, CdnFox said:

And no - if anything the fact they don't know the owner as you say strongly suggests the land wasn't just pulled out of the reserve for his rich friends.

Perhaps for this particular plot of land but not necessarily. The owner in china employed various local lobbyists and consultants who approached government on his behalf and the lobbyists are tue ones being rewarded. Or perhaps after so generously rewarding their rich buddies like the DeGasperis family they needed to throw a few random plots of land to make it look less obvious. And even if the Ford govs intentions with this particular plot of land were completely innocent the lack of due diligence just shows how recklessly they handled the file. 
 

On 8/31/2023 at 12:52 AM, CdnFox said:

And if i had a buck for every time someone selling a property lied in their ads

Thats called false advertising. Clearly the owner or the firms he employed would have known if there was a requirement for residential only but we haven’t heard anything like that come from Ford. In fact we don’t what agreements or conditions were placed on these owners at all, we have only Dougs verbal statement that the “expectation” was for development not resale and we only have that verbal statement as a reaction to info exposed by the media   
 

 

On 8/31/2023 at 12:52 AM, CdnFox said:

But these types tend to get caught in the end - which happened here.  It doesn't matter how straight up a deal is or not there's going to be mor-ons who abuse it and it sounds like they took care of this one pretty quick.

Only because it was exposed by the media. I’ll remind you that the shitstorm and revelations only started after the AG released her report and that Doug tried to block her investigation which would have kept this all under wraps. 

[BeaverFever]

Now a mysterious “Mr X” is involved and an ANOTHER investigation into illegal lobbying is in the works!

 

Raptors tickets, golf games and a $1M payday for Greenbelt land. Who is Mr. X?

 

It's a name that sounds like it's borrowed from a spy thriller — but an unregistered lobbyist known as "Mr. X" is a very real part of the report released by Ontario's integrity commissioner into how lands were selected to be removed from the province's Greenbelt.

Mr. X's name is kept out of the report, but it describes his outsized role in offering Raptors tickets and golf games to senior figures in the housing ministry while negotiating a $1 million "Greenbelt fee" contingent on getting a parcel of land developed in Clarington.

"It seems like a cheap spy novel, in a way. You've got someone named Mr. X," said Lloyd Rang, a Clarington councillor, in an interview with CTV News. "It just seems too salacious for Ontario politics."

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In the report, Integrity Commissioner J. David Wake found that Housing Minister Steve Clark broke ethics rules in a process to remove land from the protected Greenbelt that was marked by "unnecessary hastiness and deception."

His former chief of staff, Ryan Amato, resigned, and Clark has apologized but vowed to stay on despite calls for him to step down too. Premier Doug Ford also stood by the embattled minister on Thursday, admitting there were flaws in the process but said they were in the effort of the larger goal of building new homes in a housing crisis.

According to the report, Mr. X was contracted to work on getting 86 acres of land north of Nash Road out of the Greenbelt by its owner, Peter Tanenbaum, who had owned the property since before the creation of the protected green space.

Records show Tanenbaum purchased the property for about $2.7 million about 20 years ago. The land value would sharply escalate with the legal ability to develop it for homes.

Mr. X and Tanenbaum negotiated a contract on August 9, 2022, where Mr. X would be paid a $6,000 per month fee and a "Greenbelt Fee" of $225,000 earned when final approval has been obtained to remove the lands from the Greenbelt and a "Rezoning fee" of $775,000 when authorization to develop the land was granted.

Put together, the payments would total $1 million. That could pose concerns because the report says Mr. X never registered as a lobbyist, where getting paid contingent on the results of lobbying isn't allowed by law.

In September 2022, Mr. X wrote Tanenbaum saying that he had a lunch meeting with Amato and deputy chief of staff Kirstin Jensen.

"Ours is the only file that I am discussing. I also have them coming to golf at Goodwood in 2 weeks with me and to a Raptors game," he said in an email, the report says.

Amato denied to the commissioner that he met with Mr. X, and Jensen admitted he probably paid for lunch, the report says.

The interaction is one of many by lobbyists whose activities Wake tracks on Greenbelt removals the province's auditor general has estimated would be collectively worth billions to landowners.

"Mr. X certainly adds to the intrigue," said University of Toronto political scientist Chris Cochrane. "I don't remember an integrity commissioner report that outlined so much of the palace intrigue."

NDP MPP Jeff Burch said the flawed process shouldn't stand — in part because it attracted mysterious figures like Mr. X.

"This is the kind of thing you see in movies. It's not the kind of thing you see in the province of Ontario," said the NDP's Jeff Burch.

The reason Wake doesn't disclose Mr. X's identity is because he says the commissioner can't disclose a lobbying investigation by law.

"There will almost certainly be a subsequent investigation, he says as much when he says he'll be looking into the relationship between Mr. X and the government," Cochrane said.

Meaning this isn't likely going to be the integrity commissioner's last word on Mr. X — or the Greenbelt.

 

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/greenbelt-intrigue-deepens-with-account-of-raptors-tickets-1-million-payday-and-mr-x-1.6543896

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

They gave an order to release the land from the greenbelt and now they’re canceling their order.We have no idea whether thats as easy as pushing a button or whether staff will be meeting with lawyers for the next month trying to figure out how to undo this land grab. Just because Doug barked “camel my order” doesn’t mean  that a process was in place and in fact  the total lack of due diligence, Amato’s resignation and the AG and IGs scathing reports all show there was no process in place. 
 

Perhaps for this particular plot of land but not necessarily. The owner in china employed various local lobbyists and consultants who approached government on his behalf and the lobbyists are tue ones being rewarded. Or perhaps after so generously rewarding their rich buddies like the DeGasperis family they needed to throw a few random plots of land to make it look less obvious. And even if the Ford govs intentions with this particular plot of land were completely innocent the lack of due diligence just shows how recklessly they handled the file. 
 

Thats called false advertising. Clearly the owner or the firms he employed would have known if there was a requirement for residential only but we haven’t heard anything like that come from Ford. In fact we don’t what agreements or conditions were placed on these owners at all, we have only Dougs verbal statement that the “expectation” was for development not resale and we only have that verbal statement as a reaction to info exposed by the media   
 

 

Only because it was exposed by the media. I’ll remind you that the shitstorm and revelations only started after the AG released her report and that Doug tried to block her investigation which would have kept this all under wraps. 

Yeah - this is starting to fall under the heaing of 'thou doth protest too much".

We've already agreed the method was slimy - unfortuately slimey is something ontario has previously said they'll accept in politicans so too bad.

He caught some people misusing what he'd done and he's taking steps to fix that. Problem solved.

And no, it's not a lack of 'due diligence'. 

I'm not sure there's much you can do to spin this to be 'really bad'.  He did this in a slimy way but as noted that's ontario so i can't get worked up about that.  He took a bunch of land out of the greenbelt, he's obivously trying to hit his housing construction goals, when people abuse it they get smaked around and the land is getting put back .

meanwhile he put more land into the green belt than he's taking.

Ontario needs lots of houses and developers were not motivated to build enoough currently and havne't been for years.  So - there you go.

When you start writing posts about how justin should be gone for the aga khan scandal, WE, the ethnics commish scandal, SNC, groping a reporter, suspending civil rights, etc  then we can talk about how doug ford shouldn't be slimy  like this   In the meantime it looks like ontairo will get more houses which it needs, and goofs who play games get sorted.

[Moonlight Graham]

The ON Liberals are corrupt.  The ON PC Party is corrupt.  The NDP et al. are nutters, and will become corrupted once they get a sniff of power.

Good job Ontario politicians.

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The ON Liberals are corrupt.  The ON PC Party is corrupt.  The NDP et al. are nutters, and will become corrupted once they get a sniff of power.

Good job Ontario politicians.

if the entire political establishment is either corrupt or insane

then the only rational thing to do is prepare for the breakdown of civil order at some point

nothing so spectacular as a violent revolution, this is Canada after all

more like the Great Depression

a deflationary spiral into Hooverville North

Edited September 2, 2023 by Dougie93

[ExFlyer]

39 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

if the entire political establishment is either corrupt or insa

 

You are just a biter little man because no one wants to deal with a loser like you. LOL

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

if the entire political establishment is either corrupt or insane

then the only rational thing to do is prepare for the breakdown of civil order at some point

nothing so spectacular as a violent revolution, this is Canada after all

more like the Great Depression

a deflationary spiral into Hooverville North

 

Consider there wasn't massive violent uprisings during the Great Depression throughout most of the western world, people just dealt with it and demanded significant reforms to the system.  No communist, no fascism.

What's different now is that it's just a tight squeeze, over and over, on working people.  I don't see any outlandish over-speculation.  The only thing I see is the big debt loads people have, it's possible people just can't eventually pay and there's a big recession like 2008.

I wish I could have invested in real estate development companies in Canada 20 years ago, i'd be rich.

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I wish I could have invested in real estate development companies in Canada 20 years ago, i'd be rich.

I invested in real estate and so am quite well off compared to most

i am not suffering, quite the opposite

but as a Loyalist of Upper Canada, I lament the state of my once proud Dominion

it's not about the the money

Ifeel no love for my ancestral homeland in my heart,  having become a totalitarian lunatic asylum

this is humiliating, Upper Canada reduced to this ignominious state

every institution destroyed by a cultural revolution straight out of Communist China

it is a wasteland for the soul

[Moonlight Graham]

27 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I invested in real estate and so am quite well off compared to most

i am not suffering, quite the opposite

but as a Loyalist of Upper Canada, I lament the state of my once proud Dominion

it's not about the the money

Ifeel no love for my ancestral homeland in my heart,  having become a totalitarian lunatic asylum

this is humiliating, Upper Canada reduced to this ignominious state

every institution destroyed by a cultural revolution straight out of Communist China

it is a wasteland for the soul

Upper Canada hasn't existed since 1841 LOL.  Just like the Bloc you despise Canada and want to destroy it.  Canadians have defeated both of you and will continue to do so.

One of the few good things i can say about the Trudeau's is that they didn't believe in this group identity sub-nationalism BS, like Quebec seperatism or British domination, and both believed in a united Canada.

Diversity is not our strength, unity is.

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

  Just like the Bloc you despise Canada and want to destroy it.  Canadians have defeated both of you and will continue to do so.

indeed, I am the Bloc Anglais, that's fair enough

although Canada is doing a perfectly good job of destroying itself with no intervention from us

so enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

Edited September 2, 2023 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

One of the few good things i can say about the Trudeau's is that they didn't believe in this group identity sub-nationalism BS, like Quebec seperatism or British domination, and both believed in a united Canada.

but as he has divided the Confederation against itself, pitting Canadian against Canadian

he is in fact serving the purposes of the Bloc  therein

Edited September 2, 2023 by Dougie93

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

indeed, I am the Bloc Anglais, that's fair enough

although Canada is doing a perfectly good job of destroying itself with no intervention from us

so enjoy your Pyrrhic victory

A country run by the Ontario government would be dominated but the Anglo Liberals like most of the last few decades.  They are pathetic.  A lot of the Toronto progressives where they come from are pathetic.  The ON PC party is pathetic.  The American government is even pathetic, and a lot of the American voters are too.

We're seeing civilization decline, I don't blame the politicians in the end, I blame the people themselves and I blame the culture.  We have overabundance and decadence, we have become weak and entitled and stupid.

[Dougie93]

12 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

A country run by the Ontario government would be dominated but the Anglo Liberals like most of the last few decades.  They are pathetic.  A lot of the Toronto progressives where they come from are pathetic.  The ON PC party is pathetic.  The American government is even pathetic, and a lot of the American voters are too.

We're seeing civilization decline, I don't blame the politicians in the end, I blame the people themselves and I blame the culture.  We have overabundance and decadence, we have become weak and entitled and stupid.

I don't view formal separation as a viable option

there is no realistic alternative to Confederation

I just want an actual federated state with vastly greater autonomy from Ottawa

and I would return to the British North America Act with a Bill of Rights

since the Canada Act 1982 with the Charter does not do what it promised

the Canada Act 1982 is a poison pill which has wrecked the Confederation

[Dougie93]

15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 I blame the people themselves and I blame the culture. 

I aspire not to blame my fellow man

who do you ever meet who is actually a bad person ?

it's very rare

the absolute vast majority are good people

this Chinese Communist cultural revolution does not originate in Canada

it is being imposed by a hostile foreign power

certainly many have been brainwashed by Communist traitors

but I don't blame the victims

[Moonlight Graham]

6 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

I aspire not to blame my fellow man

who do you ever meet who is actually a bad person ?

it's very rare

the absolute vast majority are good people

this Chinese Communist cultural revolution does not originate in Canada

it is being imposed by a hostile foreign power

certainly many have been brainwashed by Communist traitors

but I don't blame the victims

I believe that human adults are responsible for their own actions.

I have met quite a few bad people in my day.  And some who seem nice but are actually quite selfish.  I've had some terrible human beings as neighbours, co-workers, fellow drivers on the road, landlords, bosses, acquaintances, friends who I thought were friends.  People today are more selfish today than any other point in my lifetime.  And on the plus, they're soft, weak, entitled, and make excuses for everyone like you're doing now.

You have a victim-mentality like many other Canadians and liberal-types.  Canadians voted these people in and kept voting for them election after election.  Canadian politicians chose to allow Chinese communists to infiltrate our political system.  The Trudeau's are communist sympathizers, we let them in and crowned them a dynasty.

[Michael Hardner]

The housing minister resigned..

 

This is more crooked than anything Trudeau did, where are the Chuds on this one??? ?