Army Guy Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 On 3/2/2024 at 11:46 AM, ExFlyer said: As I said to Army Guy, there is no mandate for the military to provide, let alone build housing for military members families. https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/military-housing/locations.html The military has not and is not even contemplating building new PMQ's. The CFHA has enough issues paying the upkeep of present ones. There are PMQ's out there and if no,t the new Canadian Forces Housing Differential (CFHD) is better than the old PLD as it ensure no member pays no more then 25 of their salary for housing. That compensates for location differential. https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/pay-pension-benefits/benefits/canadian-forces-housing-differential/cfhd-faqs.html If there is no mandate for housing , why is the military still building PMQ's...132 new PMQs in the last 5 years..with plans to build 1300 new ones over the next 5 years....not record numbers but they are still building...CDS says there is a shortage of PMQ's as quoted below. I think that the military does have a plan, it is just slow to put it into action... Quote The situation underscores what defence chief Gen. Wayne Eyre has identified as a significant shortage of affordable housing for Canada's military. Earlier this year, Eyre said it was one of the top concerns for his troops. DND has about 12,000 military housing units available to rent on Canadian Forces bases and wings. Eyre has said that between 4,000 and 6,000 more units are needed. Quote DND said five years ago the Canadian Forces Housing Agency was proposing to build 1,300 new units over 10 years. It was going to consider "alternate delivery options," such as leases and public-private partnerships, for other housing units. But in the five years since that proposal was raised, only 132 units have been built across the country. Quote He said in addition to building more military housing, the navy is looking to work with local communities to find some solutions. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-housing-units-waitlist-1.6604748 https://www.dcc-cdc.gc.ca/news/dcc-at-work/canadian-forces-housing-agency-opens-new-design-build-apartment-buildings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted March 3 Report Share Posted March 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: If there is no mandate for housing , why is the military still building PMQ's...132 new PMQs in the last 5 years..with plans to build 1300 new ones over the next 5 years....not record numbers but they are still building...CDS says there is a shortage of PMQ's as quoted below. I think that the military does have a plan, it is just slow to put it into action... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-housing-units-waitlist-1.6604748 https://www.dcc-cdc.gc.ca/news/dcc-at-work/canadian-forces-housing-agency-opens-new-design-build-apartment-buildings Look, keep on keeping on. What the military does and does not do is completely out of my purview. Yes, I read the links you posted, i tis not as dramatic as you try and make it to be. Why they do it in one place and not another is also for reasons unknown to me. There is no mandate for military to provide housing. The CDS did not say there was a mandate. If there was then there would be a lot more being done but I suspect the 132 units have been built across the country. over the past 5 years were being built are to replace ones being condemned but, I do not know and, I am sure you do not either. CFHA proposed 1300 at all bases over a 10 year period, it did not happen. A proposal means nothing. No priority there. "It was going to consider "alternate delivery options," such as leases and public-private partnerships, for other housing units." and "looking to work with local communities to find some solutions." So, the Military provides subsidies to military so they would not pay more than 25% of their salary for housing. Be it in an PMQ or off base. No civilian programs like that exist. It seems like a pretty good thing to me. You are trying very hard to make this some sort of Military tragedy when in fact, housing is a national issue. There is a housing shortage all over the country. In Ottawa alone there are over 10,000 on a waiting list. In Victoria there were 64,168 in June 2022 on the housing list. So please, $72 K per year and assurances they would never pay more than 25% of their salary for rent is not exactly a bad thong. Edited March 3 by ExFlyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaétan Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 NATO is not God, its leaders were not democratically elected but by bribing the media with money. I have a plan to abolish the devil's tool, money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 9 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Look, keep on keeping on. What the military does and does not do is completely out of my purview. Yes, I read the links you posted, i tis not as dramatic as you try and make it to be. Why they do it in one place and not another is also for reasons unknown to me. There is no mandate for military to provide housing. The CDS did not say there was a mandate. If there was then there would be a lot more being done but I suspect the 132 units have been built across the country. over the past 5 years were being built are to replace ones being condemned but, I do not know and, I am sure you do not either. CFHA proposed 1300 at all bases over a 10 year period, it did not happen. A proposal means nothing. No priority there. "It was going to consider "alternate delivery options," such as leases and public-private partnerships, for other housing units." and "looking to work with local communities to find some solutions." So, the Military provides subsidies to military so they would not pay more than 25% of their salary for housing. Be it in an PMQ or off base. No civilian programs like that exist. It seems like a pretty good thing to me. You are trying very hard to make this some sort of Military tragedy when in fact, housing is a national issue. There is a housing shortage all over the country. In Ottawa alone there are over 10,000 on a waiting list. In Victoria there were 64,168 in June 2022 on the housing list. So please, $72 K per year and assurances they would never pay more than 25% of their salary for rent is not exactly a bad thong. I would keep on keeping on, But it is you that posted info that was not true.. You say what happens in the military is out of your preview, but you have posted false news in these cases a couple of times now....... You continue to say there is no mandate and yet DND continues to build PMQ's and reports there is a critical shortage of 6000 units...if there was no mandate there would be NO shortage...just a decrease in present inventory...So no need to keep score...and certainly no need to build more... Why would they replace any older PMQ's if there is not mandate, or like you said DND has no interest in building new PMQ's never has never will and yet here we are... You also published errors in wages and when i provided you with the source that the average Canadian makes 72 k after taxes, and a YOUNG CPL MAKES ONLY 54 AFTER TAXES...there is a huge difference between those numbers... Lets do a review shall we, Military members do not make what the average Canadians makes, in fact short by 18 k if my math is right...and more than 50K to 70K short compared to RCMP... There is a housing crises, IN the military... I don't care what is happening in other areas of the country to the civy side of the house........this issue could be solved by the military for the military not sure why that is so hard to understand..... both the Ombudsmen and various other media source have said that some military members are either couch surfing or leaving in tents in the F8cking Canadian winter...., combine this with the CO of comox directing young military members to habit for humanity...are all red flags pointing to an issue...to which you can not see...or want to see... You make it sound that circumstance behind a cpls rank level are some what their fault, no rentals available, no homes available within their price point, no Military housing , you basical said to bad they make good money...When it is a military requirement for them to be there in the first place.... Proposals do mean something they have already built 132 units, they don't do that unless they have authorization to spend funds....with more planed and yes they are looking outside the box, for other solutions...clearly showing the Military has identified the problem...and are putting funding towards it, albeit very slowly...Thats my problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 (edited) 7 hours ago, Army Guy said: I would keep on keeping on, But it is you that posted info that was not true.. You say what happens in the military is out of your preview, but you have posted false news in these cases a couple of times now....... You continue to say there is no mandate and yet DND continues to build PMQ's and reports there is a critical shortage of 6000 units...if there was no mandate there would be NO shortage...just a decrease in present inventory...So no need to keep score...and certainly no need to build more... Why would they replace any older PMQ's if there is not mandate, or like you said DND has no interest in building new PMQ's never has never will and yet here we are... You also published errors in wages and when i provided you with the source that the average Canadian makes 72 k after taxes, and a YOUNG CPL MAKES ONLY 54 AFTER TAXES...there is a huge difference between those numbers... Lets do a review shall we, Military members do not make what the average Canadians makes, in fact short by 18 k if my math is right...and more than 50K to 70K short compared to RCMP... There is a housing crises, IN the military... I don't care what is happening in other areas of the country to the civy side of the house........this issue could be solved by the military for the military not sure why that is so hard to understand..... both the Ombudsmen and various other media source have said that some military members are either couch surfing or leaving in tents in the F8cking Canadian winter...., combine this with the CO of comox directing young military members to habit for humanity...are all red flags pointing to an issue...to which you can not see...or want to see... You make it sound that circumstance behind a cpls rank level are some what their fault, no rentals available, no homes available within their price point, no Military housing , you basical said to bad they make good money...When it is a military requirement for them to be there in the first place.... Proposals do mean something they have already built 132 units, they don't do that unless they have authorization to spend funds....with more planed and yes they are looking outside the box, for other solutions...clearly showing the Military has identified the problem...and are putting funding towards it, albeit very slowly...Thats my problem... False news? Please elaborate. As I said, there is a housing crisis in all of Canada to all Canadians, not just military. You are going to have to show me where anyone has said soldiers are sleeping in tents in the winter because they cannot find a place to live. Yes, I said military make pretty good salary. I just showed what the salary is. "According to 2023 figures from Statistics Canada, the average (mean) Canadian salary for full-time employees is $73,793 per year, or $6,149 per month, before taxes and contributions." My proof has been the official pay scale for anyone to see. l also said if deployed they get extra pay. Quite comparable. But hey, if you want to argue and make it sound like a military person with less than 5 years on the job making $72K (standard) to $85K (spec 1) is dirt poor, go for it. I am sure many Canadians would like that salary As per your link, they built 135 housing units in 5 years, all over the country. Not exactly a building spree LOL. Also, in the link they said they were proposing to build of over the next 10 years but no plan as of now. Proposals do not have funding, that is how they ask for funding. Sounds like a political promise to me, no merit. Army Guy, trying to prove each other wrong should be beneath us. I understand your defence of a soldier but realistically the one or two (unproven ) examples are not sufficient for your case. Edited March 4 by ExFlyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 (edited) 10 hours ago, ExFlyer said: False news? Please elaborate. As I said, there is a housing crisis in all of Canada to all Canadians, not just military. You are going to have to show me where anyone has said soldiers are sleeping in tents in the winter because they cannot find a place to live. Yes, I said military make pretty good salary. I just showed what the salary is. "According to 2023 figures from Statistics Canada, the average (mean) Canadian salary for full-time employees is $73,793 per year, or $6,149 per month, before taxes and contributions." My proof has been the official pay scale for anyone to see. l also said if deployed they get extra pay. Quite comparable. But hey, if you want to argue and make it sound like a military person with less than 5 years on the job making $72K (standard) to $85K (spec 1) is dirt poor, go for it. I am sure many Canadians would like that salary As per your link, they built 135 housing units in 5 years, all over the country. Not exactly a building spree LOL. Also, in the link they said they were proposing to build of over the next 10 years but no plan as of now. Proposals do not have funding, that is how they ask for funding. Sounds like a political promise to me, no merit. Army Guy, trying to prove each other wrong should be beneath us. I understand your defence of a soldier but realistically the one or two (unproven ) examples are not sufficient for your case. Not sure what your implying, that the total housing crises has to be dealt with before the military solves theirs, Everyone gets it the entire nation is having a housing crises...Here in the military, which is provided a budget for housing is also having a crises of recent making, this housing crises could and should be solved by the military...we have already seen plans to build my housing units...they should put it into action...I think everyone in this country would say i think it is time to invest into NEW modern PMQ's and single quarters. As this crises is not going to fix itself in the next 8 years of so... nova-scotia-sees-spike-in-military-personnel-living-in-tents-couchsurfing-amid-housing-crisis https://portal.legion.ca/docs/default-source/branch-and-command-resources/marketing-and-public-relations/public-relations_pro-update_en.pdf?sfvrsn=c84c3a5a_6 https://www.reddit.com/r/caf/comments/18ovcw2/military_ombudsman_decries_housing_tragedy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/comments/192fdfr/former_mp_peter_stoffer_refutes_dnd_denial_of/ Yes you did , and i provided a source from stats can as well it said that the 73 k a year made by the average Canadian was AFTER taxes...and the 72 k was a gross figure, meaning 54 K after taxes...a big difference... Yes i know 134 is not a lot...and with everything going on in the military right now it is not a priority but some action is being taken, as the realize the importance of PMQ's to the existing forces and their families...if not they would have just not bothered, building any... perhaps not to you...but i have provided 6 or 7 links and they all point there is a problem with military housing...most links i did provide say there is definitely huge problems...And it is not so much in defense of soldiers, it was to bring more recognition to the problem, that all is not well in our military infact most things are twisted... Edited March 5 by Army Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 On 3/3/2024 at 10:46 AM, ExFlyer said: Are you insinuating police are over paid? Absolutely. If you compare them and firefighters to police and firefighters virtually anywhere else in the world they are wildly overpaid. There are a few cities in the US where they're paid comparable, and a couple of small countries in Europe, mainly the nordic ones and Switzerland. But Canadian police earn more than anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 43 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Not sure what your implying, that the total housing crises has to be dealt with before the military solves For what it's worth, when I and some friends (including 2 ex-military) were discussing what to be done to increase recruitment base housing was one of the main agreement points. Fix it up and build more. It would not only allow people to not worry about affording and finding housing wherever they were transferred but would build esprit de corps/comradery among the men, which would be a huge attraction to today's younger generation who, the polls and papers tell us, have few friends and suffer from loneliness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 (edited) 17 hours ago, Army Guy said: Not sure what your implying, that the total housing crises has to be dealt with before the military solves theirs, Everyone gets it the entire nation is having a housing crises...Here in the military, which is provided a budget for housing is also having a crises of recent making, this housing crises could and should be solved by the military...we have already seen plans to build my housing units...they should put it into action...I think everyone in this country would say i think it is time to invest into NEW modern PMQ's and single quarters. As this crises is not going to fix itself in the next 8 years of so... nova-scotia-sees-spike-in-military-personnel-living-in-tents-couchsurfing-amid-housing-crisis https://portal.legion.ca/docs/default-source/branch-and-command-resources/marketing-and-public-relations/public-relations_pro-update_en.pdf?sfvrsn=c84c3a5a_6 https://www.reddit.com/r/caf/comments/18ovcw2/military_ombudsman_decries_housing_tragedy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/comments/192fdfr/former_mp_peter_stoffer_refutes_dnd_denial_of/ Yes you did , and i provided a source from stats can as well it said that the 73 k a year made by the average Canadian was AFTER taxes...and the 72 k was a gross figure, meaning 54 K after taxes...a big difference... Yes i know 134 is not a lot...and with everything going on in the military right now it is not a priority but some action is being taken, as the realize the importance of PMQ's to the existing forces and their families...if not they would have just not bothered, building any... perhaps not to you...but i have provided 6 or 7 links and they all point there is a problem with military housing...most links i did provide say there is definitely huge problems...And it is not so much in defense of soldiers, it was to bring more recognition to the problem, that all is not well in our military infact most things are twisted... "Craig Hood, executive director of the Royal Canadian Legion Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command, said he has heard “startling” stories of actively serving members posted to the province who are “living rough” in tents, living in their vehicles, couch surfing and even entering into relationships to secure housing that have put them at risk of domestic violence." Herd, not proved, not seen, not documented. Great way to get some press. Look, argue all your want, $72K (standard) to $85K (spec 1) is very good pay for someone with 4 to 5 years on the job. As far as recruiting, today's young folks are not military types. It will take a lot more than single quarters and PMQ's to get them to join. Like I said, you win. Take the win and move on LOL 16 hours ago, I am Groot said: Absolutely. If you compare them and firefighters to police and firefighters virtually anywhere else in the world they are wildly overpaid. There are a few cities in the US where they're paid comparable, and a couple of small countries in Europe, mainly the nordic ones and Switzerland. But Canadian police earn more than anyone else. So, they are comparable then. Edited March 5 by ExFlyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 5 hours ago, ExFlyer said: "Craig Hood, executive director of the Royal Canadian Legion Nova Scotia/Nunavut Command, said he has heard “startling” stories of actively serving members posted to the province who are “living rough” in tents, living in their vehicles, couch surfing and even entering into relationships to secure housing that have put them at risk of domestic violence." Herd, not proved, not seen, not documented. Great way to get some press. Look, argue all your want, $72K (standard) to $85K (spec 1) is very good pay for someone with 4 to 5 years on the job. As far as recruiting, today's young folks are not military types. It will take a lot more than single quarters and PMQ's to get them to join. Like I said, you win. Take the win and move on LOL So, they are comparable then. WOW, is all i can really say...your entire take on this was it is all nothing more than rumors...no more than stories... Quote Representatives from the Royal Canadian Legion, the Halifax & Region Military Family Resource Centre and Halifax Regional Municipality told MLAs they’ve seen and heard from Armed Forces members living in tents, living in vehicles, couchsurfing Stories that have caught the attention of the Military ombudsman who was attending a conference and standing legislative committee on this very topic...I just guess but i think there is more to this subject than a few stories, or rumors.... Quote “The issue is all over the place, but certainly (we’re) hearing of families not having a home, having to live with other families or having to live in recreational vehicles as a temporary means because there simply isn’t enough housing,” Lick told SaltWire in an interview. “And we’re even hearing from some families that are simply homeless.” During a recent visit to 14 Wing Greenwood, Lick said, he heard many stories that echo those described earlier this week at a legislative standing committee about an “epidemic” of homelessness and housing insecurity among active-duty personnel in Nova Scotia. Quote The growing prevalence of housing vulnerability within Canada’s Armed Forces not only creates hardships for individuals and families, it also raises concern about the impact it could have on the work they do protecting Canadians from domestic and international threats, Lick warned. Seem to be taking it pretty seriously...note one of his concerns for not having adequate housing for troops... Quote Reaction to the dire situation in Nova Scotia sent shock waves among many in the military community. Canada’s naval commander, Vice-Admiral Angus Topshee, said on social media the reports of sailors struggling with housing in Halifax are “concerning” and that his officials are “actively investigating.” Even the Navy is investigating the matter, which i find strange, as of all the people that should know it is the NAVY... Quote Defence Minister Bill Blair was unavailable for an interview. A written response to detailed questions from SaltWire contained no direct mention or reaction to the concerns raised about unhoused Nova Scotia members of the Armed Forces. Instead, it contained a list of recent government investments to address increased housing costs, including a new “housing differential” monthly payment “designed to assist those who most need financial assistance to secure suitable housing,” Blair’s spokeswoman, Diana Ebadi, wrote. She also pointed to a commitment of $55 million in the 2023 budget for residential housing for members and said the department is working with external partners to acquire additional housing. Note here is the government has committed to providing ANOTHER 55 million in this years budget to build more housing..."This should put an end to the Military will never build any more PMQ's or single quarters comments" I'm hoping this story brings in new investments to military housing...I'm also hoping it creates a new program for rent deductions... Quote But Lick said he does not believe Ottawa is treating the issue with enough urgency. He noted the Defence Department has been seized with addressing issues of military culture following multiple revelations in recent years of sexual misconduct. While this work is important, Canada’s military “cannot forget about those basic needs of shelter, food and health and safety,” he said. He is calling for a national accommodations strategy for the Armed Forces that would look for new approaches to the demand for housing on bases and the need for retrofits for existing military housing. “No member of the military who’s protecting our security and safety, both in Canada and around the world, should ever be homeless. That shouldn’t make the newspaper, ever.” I'm hoping the national media outlets pick this story up and run with it... 72 K gross is a good wage...but falls below the national average which according to stats can is 96,280....even with spec pay they fall below the average Canadian....Still think that is a fair wage...still think there is no room for improvement...could this be why recruitment is fallen, our Military is not competitive in wages at least not compared to the average Canadian... Average annual salaries, Canada, provinces and territories, 2019 dollarsCanada96,280 Newfoundland and Labrador109,294 Prince Edward Island64,030 Nova Scotia74,603 New Brunswick73,061 Quebec78,267 Ontario85,798 Manitoba86,561 Saskatchewan99,611 Alberta120,762 British Columbia92,795 Yukon110,705 Northwest Territories168,801 Nunavut118,046 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210430/cg-e002-eng.htm There is no win or loss here, this is a story about our nations military it is important to get the facts right, that everything about our military smells like shit....Canadians should be embarrassed to have any of this in our media...let alone be known to the globe...Our troops work tirelessly around the clock , around the globe to protect our nation's reputation and Canadians and our government shi# all over that effort by allowing this sort of thing to happen... These nation has proven over and over again we can not look after our Veterans, and now it's troops...Shame on us.. 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Army Guy Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 17 hours ago, I am Groot said: For what it's worth, when I and some friends (including 2 ex-military) were discussing what to be done to increase recruitment base housing was one of the main agreement points. Fix it up and build more. It would not only allow people to not worry about affording and finding housing wherever they were transferred but would build esprit de corps/comradery among the men, which would be a huge attraction to today's younger generation who, the polls and papers tell us, have few friends and suffer from loneliness. I agree totally, building more modern PMQ's with new green heating and cooling equipment, .. and other housing units could attract more military members into military housing...and solve this crises that we have today...controlling rent is another option that could provide military members a savings vehicle to buy a real home one day... a lot could be done...what we need is the will. Get rid of CFHA is another start, return the control over maintenance and building back to CE, let them earn their wage...with the military back in direct control, they could enforce cleanliness, and upkeep, by it's members, one of the major problems now is just that military members did not care at the state of their PMQ's and a lot of them had turned into a Shi* show, not mowing the lawns, not cleaning the insides...then again DND has not shown much interest either....lots of horror stories in that realm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: WOW, is all i can really say...your entire take on this was it is all nothing more than rumors...no more than stories... Stories that have caught the attention of the Military ombudsman who was attending a conference and standing legislative committee on this very topic...I just guess but i think there is more to this subject than a few stories, or rumors.... Seem to be taking it pretty seriously...note one of his concerns for not having adequate housing for troops... Even the Navy is investigating the matter, which i find strange, as of all the people that should know it is the NAVY... Note here is the government has committed to providing ANOTHER 55 million in this years budget to build more housing..."This should put an end to the Military will never build any more PMQ's or single quarters comments" I'm hoping this story brings in new investments to military housing...I'm also hoping it creates a new program for rent deductions... I'm hoping the national media outlets pick this story up and run with it... 72 K gross is a good wage...but falls below the national average which according to stats can is 96,280....even with spec pay they fall below the average Canadian....Still think that is a fair wage...still think there is no room for improvement...could this be why recruitment is fallen, our Military is not competitive in wages at least not compared to the average Canadian... Average annual salaries, Canada, provinces and territories, 2019 dollarsCanada96,280 Newfoundland and Labrador109,294 Prince Edward Island64,030 Nova Scotia74,603 New Brunswick73,061 Quebec78,267 Ontario85,798 Manitoba86,561 Saskatchewan99,611 Alberta120,762 British Columbia92,795 Yukon110,705 Northwest Territories168,801 Nunavut118,046 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210430/cg-e002-eng.htm There is no win or loss here, this is a story about our nations military it is important to get the facts right, that everything about our military smells like shit....Canadians should be embarrassed to have any of this in our media...let alone be known to the globe...Our troops work tirelessly around the clock , around the globe to protect our nation's reputation and Canadians and our government shi# all over that effort by allowing this sort of thing to happen... These nation has proven over and over again we can not look after our Veterans, and now it's troops...Shame on us.. FFS!!! I already said you win, several times. My take is that the military is paid well and they can live on their wage. I did and you did, with less. You have your crusade and can run with it. That statscan site is waaaay out to lunch. Googling Newfoundland average wage gets you $42K https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/--in-Newfoundland-and-Labrador In PEI $37,508 Nova Scotia $51,262 Check them individually (Average Salary in ____) and they are not anywhere near the StatsCan link. "The average salary in Toronto is $62,050, which is 14% higher than the Canadian average salary of $54,450. A person making $80,000 a year in Toronto makes 28.9% more than the average working person in Toronto and will take home about $59,628.Feb 1, 2024" Bottom line, if a basic newly promoted corporal standard cannot live off $72K per year, then they need counselling. There are millions that would love that wage. Plus " 1.5 per cent, effective April 1, 2021 4.79 per cent effective April 1, 2022, a compounded increase of 1.29 per cent 3.0 per cent effective April 1, 2023, and a 2.26 per cent effective April 1, 2024, a compounded increase of .26 per cent." https://www.cmfmag.ca/policy/caf-personnel-economic-increase-breakdown/#:~:text=Rates of Increase&text=3.0 per cent effective April,2024%2C a compounded increase of . and https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/maple-leaf/defence/2023/08/update-pld-transition.html My last word https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/soldiers-versus-teachers-who-is-worth-more-1.816490 Edited March 5 by ExFlyer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 On 3/4/2024 at 7:20 PM, Army Guy said: Not sure what your implying, that the total housing crises has to be dealt with before the military solves theirs, Everyone gets it the entire nation is having a housing crises...Here in the military, which is provided a budget for housing is also having a crises of recent making, this housing crises could and should be solved by the military...we have already seen plans to build my housing units...they should put it into action...I think everyone in this country would say i think it is time to invest into NEW modern PMQ's and single quarters. As this crises is not going to fix itself in the next 8 years of so... nova-scotia-sees-spike-in-military-personnel-living-in-tents-couchsurfing-amid-housing-crisis https://portal.legion.ca/docs/default-source/branch-and-command-resources/marketing-and-public-relations/public-relations_pro-update_en.pdf?sfvrsn=c84c3a5a_6 https://www.reddit.com/r/caf/comments/18ovcw2/military_ombudsman_decries_housing_tragedy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/comments/192fdfr/former_mp_peter_stoffer_refutes_dnd_denial_of/ Yes you did , and i provided a source from stats can as well it said that the 73 k a year made by the average Canadian was AFTER taxes...and the 72 k was a gross figure, meaning 54 K after taxes...a big difference... Yes i know 134 is not a lot...and with everything going on in the military right now it is not a priority but some action is being taken, as the realize the importance of PMQ's to the existing forces and their families...if not they would have just not bothered, building any... perhaps not to you...but i have provided 6 or 7 links and they all point there is a problem with military housing...most links i did provide say there is definitely huge problems...And it is not so much in defense of soldiers, it was to bring more recognition to the problem, that all is not well in our military infact most things are twisted... I know Sgt (ret.) Craig Hood very well he was one of my best friends in the army he's Militia Queen's Own Rifles of Canada we grew up together at Moss Park Armoury he was one of the best soldiers I ever knew, Regular or Reserve Reg Force troops accepted him as meeting the standard in all respects Craig Hood was a Paratrooper, the equal of any in the Airborne Regiment Craig Hood is the very epitome of the brother to left & right of you In Pace Paratus Airborne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 (edited) On 3/5/2024 at 3:21 PM, ExFlyer said: FFS!!! I already said you win, several times. My take is that the military is paid well and they can live on their wage. I did and you did, with less. You have your crusade and can run with it. That statscan site is waaaay out to lunch. Googling Newfoundland average wage gets you $42K https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/--in-Newfoundland-and-Labrador In PEI $37,508 Nova Scotia $51,262 Check them individually (Average Salary in ____) and they are not anywhere near the StatsCan link. "The average salary in Toronto is $62,050, which is 14% higher than the Canadian average salary of $54,450. A person making $80,000 a year in Toronto makes 28.9% more than the average working person in Toronto and will take home about $59,628.Feb 1, 2024" Bottom line, if a basic newly promoted corporal standard cannot live off $72K per year, then they need counselling. There are millions that would love that wage. Plus " 1.5 per cent, effective April 1, 2021 4.79 per cent effective April 1, 2022, a compounded increase of 1.29 per cent 3.0 per cent effective April 1, 2023, and a 2.26 per cent effective April 1, 2024, a compounded increase of .26 per cent." https://www.cmfmag.ca/policy/caf-personnel-economic-increase-breakdown/#:~:text=Rates of Increase&text=3.0 per cent effective April,2024%2C a compounded increase of . and https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/maple-leaf/defence/2023/08/update-pld-transition.html My last word https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/soldiers-versus-teachers-who-is-worth-more-1.816490 Yes , you have said YOU WIN many times, and i have said this is not about me or you.... this post it is about getting the facts correct ,which you've misrepresented or casually tossed sources i provided as unreliable for some reason.....as they don't serve your narrative...."You win" is your way of saying you don't want to discuss it any more , which is great, but you either have to have the last word, or you continue to misrepresent the facts, which is why i continue to respond to your posts... I have said the Canadian military is well paid, in fact is one of the highest paid in the world...I have demonstrated many times, comparing wages alone does not tell the whole story, we forget to compare benefits and what they are worth in dollars as well. While our pay may be adequate, We lack benefits. I also pointed out that their is a huge pay gap between the average Canadian civilian and it's military personal..which regardless of how much we are being paid, a 20,000 plus difference is not very acceptable...and there are red flags presenting themselves that tell another story, one that the wages are not very competitive, nor are they adequate for these present times... Stats can is a governmental web site updated on a regular basis, just becasue YOU think they are out of whack, becasue it does not feed into your narrative, instead we are suppose to trust your source documents becasue of why again? when parliament and government use this source stats can is pretty reliable, unless you can find a source that proves that these sites are unreliable..I'd be all ears...And sorry if i go with stats can until you do... The below site states that the average Canadian civilian wage is 62,900 "after taxes"...in 2019, it could have only grown in todays market... https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210323/dq210323a-eng.htm Then there is this link also from Stats can...outlining the average wage for each province...which states that the average wage in Canada in 2019...was 96,280....just over 20,000 over what an average corporal makes after 4 years of service...Plus the fact that RCMP after 4 years of service are making 122,000 a year...there is no reason why a military wage increase could not be looked at.... https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210430/cg-e002-eng.htm Your last word, your document is 15 years old...written in a period of time where things were much better in the CF , in the country, and in the globe....today is a much different story...were we find ourselves in a much different world, one full of uncertainty, and one where our dollar does not go as far as it should...we did not pay over 2 dollars a liter for gas, housing was not over a million , our nation did not spend 700 bil in less than 4 years, and there was no recruiting crises...in fact no crises at all...things were looking well in the CF...you can't say any of that today... Edited March 6 by Army Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Every time I hear about those stupid "Arctic Patrol" vessels they seem to have more problems. Now it's flooding, which, I think most people would agree, is probably not a good thing for ships. https://archive.is/u3yMk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 19 minutes ago, I am Groot said: Every time I hear about those stupid "Arctic Patrol" vessels they seem to have more problems. Now it's flooding, which, I think most people would agree, is probably not a good thing for ships. https://archive.is/u3yMk A look on the bright side, not many war ships have their own pool, or sauna...while everything else is broken these two items might be one the plus side...maybe putting in a glass bottom and given them to west edmonton mall would not be a bad idea... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 22 minutes ago, I am Groot said: Every time I hear about those stupid "Arctic Patrol" vessels they seem to have more problems. Now it's flooding, which, I think most people would agree, is probably not a good thing for ships. https://archive.is/u3yMk shipbuilding is actually an art the institutional knowledge to do ship building right cannot be easily bought with cash master shipbuilders take decades to make so if you are a boom & bust shipbuilder like Canada every time you bust, allowing the shipbuilding industry to collapse when you try to start again, you end up starting from scratch, like a country that has never built a ship before 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 42 minutes ago, Army Guy said: A look on the bright side, not many war ships have their own pool, or sauna... I'd put money down it still somehow despite flooding it manages to find a way to catch fire at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni warrior Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 2 hours ago, Dougie93 said: shipbuilding is actually an art the institutional knowledge to do ship building right cannot be easily bought with cash master shipbuilders take decades to make so if you are a boom & bust shipbuilder like Canada every time you bust, allowing the shipbuilding industry to collapse when you try to start again, you end up starting from scratch, like a country that has never built a ship before That's a pretty ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 More news about Canada's redeaness reports, worse than anyone has thought...This government has once again proved it is not fit to lead this nation....the sad part about of of this is Canadians let it happen... State of Canadian Armed Forces' combat readiness growing worse, government report warns (msn.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: More news about Canada's redeaness reports, worse than anyone has thought...This government has once again proved it is not fit to lead this nation....the sad part about of of this is Canadians let it happen... State of Canadian Armed Forces' combat readiness growing worse, government report warns (msn.com) Recruitment shortage. Every time this sort of thing gets posted on another discussion forum I visit it draws a flood of complaints from people who tried to join and got nothing but roadblocks tossed at them, or waited 18 months for a callback that never came and gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 Over the past 3 years more people have left our military than joined it. That's insane. 1 hour ago, I am Groot said: Recruitment shortage. Every time this sort of thing gets posted on another discussion forum I visit it draws a flood of complaints from people who tried to join and got nothing but roadblocks tossed at them, or waited 18 months for a callback that never came and gave up. I know there's an extra wait for non- Canadian permanent residents because of the extra security checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 3 hours ago, Army Guy said: ...This government has once again proved it is not fit to lead this nation....the sad part about of of this is Canadians let it happen... I guess you guys are so unfit now that even a coup to make Canada great again is impossible. You guys should become mercenaries or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, I am Groot said: Recruitment shortage. Every time this sort of thing gets posted on another discussion forum I visit it draws a flood of complaints from people who tried to join and got nothing but roadblocks tossed at them, or waited 18 months for a callback that never came and gave up. Everything that is being done has backfired for them, almost like they are deliberately sabotaging the military. and when you look at the other security departments they are following suit as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 11 minutes ago, eyeball said: I guess you guys are so unfit now that even a coup to make Canada great again is impossible. You guys should become mercenaries or something. Why would they want to make Canada great again ? Canadians got exactly what they wanted, now it is time to live with it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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