John Johnston Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 6 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said: I never have a problem admitting it, but happens so infrequently that I need to remind myself.... 😬 The world can't end tomorrow! I Pre-Ordered Starfield. It's not slated to be released until Tuesday. This will not do. 1 1 Quote
ExFlyer Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 (edited) 16 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said: The Coast Guard was moved to the Department of Defense last year, and is part of our military. You always need to listen to the accountants and they were adamant that the spend be accounted for in the military ledger, despite your extensive list of qualifications and objections. The Canadian Coast Guard was finally moved under the Military umbrella. It was a long time coming and we were the last to do so. All other countrys Coast Guards are part of their military or their Federal Police Force. Edited April 3 by ExFlyer 2 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
LinkSoul60 Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 6 minutes ago, John Johnston said: The world can't end tomorrow! I Pre-Ordered Starfield. It's not slated to be released until Tuesday. This will not do. Tell me about it... I have a 10:42 tee time so the world better not end and screw that up. 2 Quote
John Johnston Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 1 minute ago, LinkSoul60 said: Tell me about it... I have a 10:42 tee time so the world better not end and screw that up. 😄 Just now, John Johnston said: 😄 Awe man, already on the Links? I'm rather envious. Snowed last night. Quote
LinkSoul60 Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 8 minutes ago, Deluge said: You're not thinking practically. That space could accommodate a lot of tents for you and your neighbors. I'm sure the third-world occupants of your former homes will want you as comfortable as possible. 5 minutes ago, John Johnston said: 😄 Awe man, already on the Links? I'm rather envious. Snowed last night. It's one of the reasons I'll never leave this part of the world... generally get to play year round, although it was less this winter with it being too wet and cool. I'm trying to find a positive for you with snow in April, but can't.... 😂 Quote
Army Guy Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 2 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said: Yes it is, and does report to the Minister of National Defence. The Coast Guard was officially transitioned into the Dept of Defence on Sept 2/25. and is now part of our military. Any dollars spent in this department are included towards our military spend. Just because the department comes under the minister of national defense, does not mean it is part of the military, That is not what i said, minister of national defense has many different departments under his preview.... Coast guard does not come under the "military" it has it's own chain of command, does not have any military mission sets, nor does it share any battle spaces with the military, and it's federal budget is allocated to the coast Guard which is separate from the military's....your confusing what happens here in Canada and how we account for expenditures to NATO....two separate things.... https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-coast-guard/corporate/about-us/who-we-are/organization.html Canada reports many different departments expenditures towards it NATO 2 %, like transport Canada aircraft, portions of RCMP budget, the entire VAC budget, National emergency preparedness, etc etc... building road networks, sewage plants, water treatment plants in the north are all reported as expenditures under NATO....as laid out under the NATO policies. Much different than those policies here in Canada.... Two very different accounting practices... Communications Security Establishment (CSE): Funding for cyber security, intelligence, and communications intelligence operations. Infrastructure and Security Spending (Dual-Use Items): Under the new 5% of GDP commitment (for 2035), Canada includes 1.5% dedicated to "defence-adjacent" or "dual-use" items, such as maritime ports, airports, and other infrastructure that serves both civilian and national security needs. Defence Innovation and Research: Funding through the National Research Council Industrial Research Assistance Programs (IRAP) and the Regional Defence Investment Initiative (RDII). NATO Common Funding Contributions: Direct payments for NATO’s civil and military budgets, including the NATO Security Investment Program (support for IT systems, fuel storage) and NATO Centres of Excellence Canadian Coast Guard: Operating expenditures related to maritime security. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: The Canadian Coast Guard was finally moved under the Military umbrella. It was a long time coming and we were the last to do so. All other countrys Coast Guards are part of their military or their Federal Police Force. No it has not been moved under the military....., while it may be under the Ministers of national defense umbrella, it remains the coast guard, Separate chain of command, separate mission sets, CDS does not control coast guard personal or assets....... . It does not have a military mission, it is unarmed, and does not have a role to play in any battle space... Yes for NATO accounting purposes it's budget does count toward our 2 %, those are NATO rules....here in Canada, Coast guard still has it's budget allotted to it, Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CdnFox Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 2 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said: The transition into the military was done to increase our maritime security, which is directly tied into a specific role in our National Defence. Nope. Sorry kid. the purpose was to roll the budget into the military. The coast guard won't be doing anything different than it was. In no way shape or form will our military or national defense benefit more than it did before Now it's not the worst idea in the universe, there are other countries that make the coast guard part of the military and at some point maybe there would be some advantage but it was done to increase "nato spending". And hey, if trump buys it and it makes him happy that's great, but the fact is that it represents ZERO increase in military spending. 1 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Army Guy Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: The coast guard’s move to DND is not in dispute. That is a legitimate move and is what most other countries do with their Coast Guard. THEREFORE it’s legitimate defence spending. Your suggestion was that other other illegitimate expenses were included, which is false. Except that those other countries have a much different mandate for their coast Guard, which is used to patrol their coast lines and most are armed, and assist with military mission sets, and while we do have a coast guard it does very little of those things....NATO definition for what a coast guard is , is pretty vague, but ours does very little of what is expected. NATO does not have a single, universal directive that mandates a specific set of actions for all coast guards. Instead, the role of a coast guard within NATO is framed by the need for interoperability, maritime security, and contribution to collective defence, particularly regarding the protection of critical undersea infrastructure and surveillance. As of 2026, NATO's focus is on integrating national coast guard capabilities into its broader maritime posture, especially for Arctic and Northern security. Key Requirements and Functions While national coast guards are often civilian, NATO membership requirements or voluntary alignment mean they are increasingly expected to: Contribute to Total Defence/National Security: Coast guards are expected to support military defence and civil preparedness by ensuring the security of national waters. Enhance Surveillance and Intelligence: Modern requirements include gathering and sharing security intelligence for a comprehensive picture of what is happening in territorial waters. Protect Critical Infrastructure: A major focus is detecting and responding to threats against critical undersea infrastructure. Maintain Interoperability: Coast guards must be able to work alongside NATO navies (Standing Naval Forces) and partner coast guards, using interoperable technology for maritime domain awareness. Conduct Maritime Security Operations: This includes contributing to tasks like combating terrorism, maintaining safe and secure maritime environments, and participating in border control and search and rescue (SAR) 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
User Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 2 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said: I never have a problem admitting it, but happens so infrequently that I need to remind myself.... 😬 Yeah, this isn’t true at all: 1 Quote
ExFlyer Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 50 minutes ago, Army Guy said: No it has not been moved under the military....., while it may be under the Ministers of national defense umbrella, it remains the coast guard, Separate chain of command, separate mission sets, CDS does not control coast guard personal or assets....... . It does not have a military mission, it is unarmed, and does not have a role to play in any battle space... Yes for NATO accounting purposes it's budget does count toward our 2 %, those are NATO rules....here in Canada, Coast guard still has it's budget allotted to it, "On September 2, 2025, the Canadian Coast Guard officially moved from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) to the Department of National Defence, becoming part of Canada's "Defence Team"" I said it was under the "umbrella of the Military" AI Overview "Under the umbrella" means being included within a broader category, organization, or protective, unified group. It signifies that various items, people, or companies are managed, covered, or grouped together under one central authority or concept" Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
CdnFox Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 41 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: "On September 2, 2025, the Canadian Coast Guard officially moved from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) to the Department of National Defence, becoming part of Canada's "Defence Team"" So not part of the military, just a "part of the defence 'team'" . Well there you go. IF it was being made part of the military it would be absorbed into the military. But that's not going to happen. 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
ExFlyer Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 (edited) 30 minutes ago, CdnFox said: So not part of the military, just a "part of the defence 'team'" . Well there you go. IF it was being made part of the military it would be absorbed into the military. But that's not going to happen. Duhhh...what is the "defence team". The ice cream truck that you run to? "The Defence Team in Canada is an integrated workforce consisting of Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) military personnel and Department of National Defence (DND) civilian employees. This partnership brings together uniform-wearing members and public servants to ensure security at home, in North America, and abroad" The DND is the civilian public servants that support the Military.... the Army, Navy, Air Force and now Coast Guard. More info for the pedophile LOSER LOL Edited April 3 by ExFlyer Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
CdnFox Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: Duhhh...what is the "defence team". It's not just the armed forces and military it would seem. It appears to be a collection of groups that provide some form of protection services to Canada, which INCLUDES but is not EXCLUSIVE OF the actual military. I suppose next he'll want to roll cops into that somehow. Maybe we could get to 3 percent! 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: "The Defence Team in Canada is an integrated workforce consisting of Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) military personnel and Department of National Defence (DND) civilian employees. Oh look no link. big shock SO it's more than just the military. So the coast guard is not military. So there you go. 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
BeaverFever Posted April 3 Author Report Posted April 3 3 hours ago, Army Guy said: Except that those other countries have a much different mandate for their coast Guard, which is used to patrol their coast lines and most are armed, and assist with military mission sets, and while we do have a coast guard it does very little of those things....NATO definition for what a coast guard is , is pretty vague, but ours does very little of what is expected. NATO does not have a single, universal directive that mandates a specific set of actions for all coast guards. Instead, the role of a coast guard within NATO is framed by the need for interoperability, maritime security, and contribution to collective defence, particularly regarding the protection of critical undersea infrastructure and surveillance. As of 2026, NATO's focus is on integrating national coast guard capabilities into its broader maritime posture, especially for Arctic and Northern security. Key Requirements and Functions While national coast guards are often civilian, NATO membership requirements or voluntary alignment mean they are increasingly expected to: Contribute to Total Defence/National Security: Coast guards are expected to support military defence and civil preparedness by ensuring the security of national waters. Enhance Surveillance and Intelligence: Modern requirements include gathering and sharing security intelligence for a comprehensive picture of what is happening in territorial waters. Protect Critical Infrastructure: A major focus is detecting and responding to threats against critical undersea infrastructure. Maintain Interoperability: Coast guards must be able to work alongside NATO navies (Standing Naval Forces) and partner coast guards, using interoperable technology for maritime domain awareness. Conduct Maritime Security Operations: This includes contributing to tasks like combating terrorism, maintaining safe and secure maritime environments, and participating in border control and search and rescue (SAR) They have been given a new mandate for security and surveillance and as a result have acquired the civil surveillance aircraft and personnel of other civilian departments, including a MALE UAS that is actually going to be DND’s only MALE UAS until the RCAF’s MQ9s are operational a few years from now. I am sure there is more to come as well 1 Quote
eyeball Posted April 3 Report Posted April 3 51 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Enhance Surveillance and Intelligence: Modern requirements include gathering and sharing security intelligence for a comprehensive picture of what is happening in territorial waters. Not much. I was just out there the other day. It looked pretty much the same the day before and as it did 50 years ago. There's just less fish boats now is all. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: They have been given a new mandate for security and surveillance and as a result have acquired the civil surveillance aircraft and personnel of other civilian departments, including a MALE UAS that is actually going to be DND’s only MALE UAS until the RCAF’s MQ9s are operational a few years from now. I am sure there is more to come as well OK, a new mandate ....they are not equipped for any military roles, their main function is safety on our water ways........It still does not make them part of the military...They are the coast guard period, there boss is not the CDS but rather a coast guard officer...who happens to fall under the department of national defense...They could not even do fisheries patrols why is that ? Because they did not have the right equipment... https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-coast-guard/corporate/about-us/who-we-are/our-mandate.html https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/transport-surveillance-environment-drones-defence-9.6982250 Even CBC see it as no more than padding the military NATO spending, those in those departments don't even know what is going on or won't say....like how to communicate with each other, what is their role, where is their role....at this point i don't think they care, that being said I'm sure those other departments are shaking their heads, the first place government look to save some money is DND, and now it has more bones to pick over... Quote Both Transport Canada and the Finance Department refused to explain the implications, which are significant given that Transport Canada operates a fleet of roughly 52 aircraft (of those 24 are owned, the rest leased) and has taken possession of a brand-new Israeli-made drone for Arctic surveillance. What we do know is the addition will — like the coast guard — also count towards Canada’s commitment of spending five per cent of the gross domestic product on defence, in keeping with the new benchmark for NATO allies. “Let's be frank, the reason this is happening is to increase the percentage of gross domestic product that Canada spends on defence," said University of British Columbia political and defence expert Michael Byers. “I think this is driven by that defence-spending imperative. Trying to build up to those magic numbers that Donald Trump wants without thinking it through in terms of: How do you fulfil those essential civilian functions that the coast guard and Transport Canada fulfil?” Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 6 hours ago, ExFlyer said: "On September 2, 2025, the Canadian Coast Guard officially moved from Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) to the Department of National Defence, becoming part of Canada's "Defence Team"" I said it was under the "umbrella of the Military" AI Overview "Under the umbrella" means being included within a broader category, organization, or protective, unified group. It signifies that various items, people, or companies are managed, covered, or grouped together under one central authority or concept" Negative, Huston....Coast guard is controlled by Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard who comes under the minster of national defense...Not the military, the military or (Canadian armed forces)is controlled by the CDS.... ....the military also comes under the minister of national defense....I gave you the organizational chart as a source document....no where does it say coast guard falls under the military....Military is not DND, it is part of DND.....DND is a separate civilian organization...I'm sure you explained this to me years back.... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
CdnFox Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 4 hours ago, BeaverFever said: They have been given a new mandate for security and surveillance and as a result have acquired the civil surveillance aircraft and personnel of other civilian departments, including a MALE UAS that is actually going to be DND’s only MALE UAS until the RCAF’s MQ9s are operational a few years from now. I am sure there is more to come as well They're not military kiddo. This should be obvious even to you. They have ALWAYS had a vorverurteilen mandate and they're not part of the armed forces. THis is NOT new military spending. This is old spending relabeled. 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Venandi Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 8 hours ago, CdnFox said: This is old spending relabeled. I would never have guessed it would take three pages and a sledge hammer. Moving existing spending to a folder with a new label doesn't suddenly make old spending new spending, even if you had to purchase a label maker to do it. Last night I tried pouring rum into a beer glass but it was still rum. So now I'm wondering if that was because the rum is staunchly (and obtusely) conservative or if the beer glass is defective. I'll put a new label on the glass marked "BEER" and let you know tomorrow, 1 1 Quote
John Johnston Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 17 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said: It's one of the reasons I'll never leave this part of the world... generally get to play year round, although it was less this winter with it being too wet and cool. I'm trying to find a positive for you with snow in April, but can't.... 😂 My Dog loves the snow. There is that... 1 Quote
ExFlyer Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 (edited) 13 hours ago, Army Guy said: Negative, Huston....Coast guard is controlled by Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard who comes under the minster of national defense...Not the military, the military or (Canadian armed forces)is controlled by the CDS.... ....the military also comes under the minister of national defense....I gave you the organizational chart as a source document....no where does it say coast guard falls under the military....Military is not DND, it is part of DND.....DND is a separate civilian organization...I'm sure you explained this to me years back.... "The Defence Team in Canada is an integrated workforce consisting of Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) military personnel and Department of National Defence (DND) civilian employees. This partnership brings together uniform-wearing members and public servants to ensure security at home, in North America, and abroad" The DND is the civilian public servants that support the Military.... the Army, Navy, Air Force and now Coast Guard. As of April 2026, Kevin Brosseau is the Commissioner of the Canadian Coast Guard. The Canadian Coast Guard is a civilian Special Operating Agency that transferred to the Department of National Defence (DND) on September 2, 2025, making it part of the Defence portfolio and reporting through the Minister of National Defence. Just as General Jennie Carigna, the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS) of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) is. The Coast Guard moved from Fisheries and Oceans Canada to the Department of National Defence to strengthen Arctic security and maritime protection. The Coast Guard moved from Fisheries and Oceans Canada to the Department of National Defence to strengthen Arctic security and maritime protection. What's your issue?? The Coast Guard is now part of DND...which is the Military and the public service support arm. Edited April 4 by ExFlyer Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Zeitgeist Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 (edited) The Coast Guard provides important communications, observations/monitoring, search and rescue, and icebreaking, which certainly benefits military and defence. Only very stupid governments would simply jump to adopt Trump’s arbitrary 5% GDP NATO spending target that not even the Americans meet. This target was another over the top, in the moment demand used to make countries contribute as much as possible. Canada is at 2% which is plenty. The important matter now is ensuring total sovereign defence capability. We should have enough independent force that can do enough damage to any invaders to act as a deterrent. Having that and being able to contribute to NATO missions our fair share are what count. Also, the US-Israel attacks on Iran were not NATO missions. They’re unilateral actions, done without any consultation with NATO allies. If Canada helps keep the Strait of Hormuz open, it should only do so under a ceasefire agreement. Obviously if Iran were to attack ships, extreme force would be applied in return. Edited April 4 by Zeitgeist 2 Quote
ExFlyer Posted April 4 Report Posted April 4 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The Coast Guard provides important communications, observations/monitoring, search and rescue, and icebreaking, which certainly benefits military and defence. Only very stupid governments would simply jump to adopt Trump’s arbitrary 5% GDP NATO spending target that not even the Americans meet. This target was another over the top, in the moment demand used to make countries contribute as much as possible. Canada is at 2% which is plenty. The important matter now is ensuring total sovereign defence capability. We should have enough independent force that can do enough damage to any invaders to act as a deterrent. Having that and being able to contribute to NATO missions our fair share are what count. Also, the US-Israel attacks on Iran were not NATO missions. They’re unilateral actions, done without any consultation with NATO allies. If Canada helps keep the Strait of Hormuz open, it should only do so under a ceasefire agreement. Obviously if Iran were to attack ships, extreme force would be applied in return. The Coast Guard has no communications tasks. It is also not really a Search and Rescue organization although, it does help anyone in distress at sea if close enough...as is required by all vessels. 2% is what has been asked of NATO members since day one of NATO. Some countries never met that objectives. You are correct war with Iran is not NATO and asking NATO to intervene is wrong and not within NATO mandate. The Strait of Hormuz is not in NATO territory so assistance there would require NATO countries to step out of their bounds. "The mandate of NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) is to guarantee the freedom and security of its 32 member states through both political and military means, acting as a system of collective defense. Based on the 1949 North Atlantic Treaty, its core purpose is to deter aggression, manage crises, and foster cooperative security, with Article 5 establishing that an attack against one member is an attack against all" and that does not include the Middle East. Edited April 4 by ExFlyer 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
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