Progressive

[eyeball]

You watching government is not Orwell. It's a reversal - anti-Orwell.

You don't say...I bet Orwell would have been all for the idea of sousveillance.

[g_bambino]

I'm a conservative because, when it's a question of the State... I prefer slow change to radical change.

Inconprehensible how you can say that while also being wide open about your republicanism, which is the "progressive" (i.e. fashionable) thing to believe in among the Left in Canada.

[ed.: +]

Edited March 3, 2013 by g_bambino

[August1991]

Inconprehensible how you can say that while also being wide open about your republicanism, which is the "progressive" (i.e. fashionable) thing to believe in among the Left in Canada.

[ed.: +]

For at least two centuries or so now, it's "fashionable" to believe in a modern republic. Thanks to the Americans and the French, I reckon that republicanism has proven its worth.

Bambino, as to your British monarchy (supposed transfer of State power from father to birth son), how many centuries did it survive? After reading about Richard III's DNA, I just read about how Henry VII took power.

To me, the British monarchy looks like a newspaper report of the Hell's Angels, or the Mafia. Or North Korea, or Syria. There's nothing civilized in its history.

----

I prefer the term "civilized" to the term "progressive". I never liked Trudeau's term: "just society". To me, we should aspire to live in a "civilized society".

Sadly, or surprisingly, all these English words have Latin roots. What is the Germanic/Anglo-Saxon equivalent of "civilized society"? (The "best land"?)

Edited March 4, 2013 by August1991

[Pliny]

You don't say...I bet Orwell would have been all for the idea of sousveillance.

Yes, probably but I couldn't say for sure having read some of his short essays. I did like his dissertation on the

differentiation of patriotism and nationalism.

[g_bambino]

For at least two centuries or so now, it's "fashionable" to believe in a modern republic.

Not in this country's society, or that of the wider Commonwealth, or even northern European countries. Only since the 1960s has republicanism been the "progressive", and hence "fashionable" among the non-conservative set, concept to believe in. Since you want a pretty radical change to the state--from constitutional monarchy to republic--for fashionable (and certainly not rational) reasons (Canada's queen is akin to Bashar al-Assad? Are you drunk?), it's difficult to take you seriously when you explain above how you're a conservative.

[cybercoma]

For at least two centuries or so now, it's "fashionable" to believe in a modern republic. Thanks to the Americans and the French, I reckon that republicanism has proven its worth.

Bambino, as to your British monarchy (supposed transfer of State power from father to birth son), how many centuries did it survive? After reading about Richard III's DNA, I just read about how Henry VII took power.

To me, the British monarchy looks like a newspaper report of the Hell's Angels, or the Mafia. Or North Korea, or Syria. There's nothing civilized in its history.

----

I prefer the term "civilized" to the term "progressive". I never liked Trudeau's term: "just society". To me, we should aspire to live in a "civilized society".

Sadly, or surprisingly, all these English words have Latin roots. What is the Germanic/Anglo-Saxon equivalent of "civilized society"? (The "best land"?)

Yes. Civilized Society. The term used by empires for millennia to subjugate and butcher their respective Others.

[BC_chick]

Yes. Civilized Society. The term used by empires for millennia to subjugate and butcher their respective Others.

It's these type of CC posts that make you one of my favourite posters. Precise, to the point yet very meaningful.

Yes, the irony never does get tiresome, does it?

[cybercoma]

Much thanks.

[Michael Hardner]

Yes. Civilized Society. The term used by empires for millennia to subjugate and butcher their respective Others.

Indeed 'Civilized' means 'from the city' doesn't it ? And the city vs country fight goes back to the dawn of cities.

[BubberMiley]

I think "Leftists" reduce people to labels, euphemisms.

That statement is either brilliantly ironic or painfully stupid.

And I don't think they understand irony in Quebec.

[waldo]

What does "progressive" mean?

does the "progressive" label apply to those within a trend driven by middle American working-class young adults in their twenties?

48% of American children are now born to unwed mothers. Congratulations progressives! Heckuva job.

[Mighty AC]

Has anyone linked the 'Progressive Manifesto' in this thread? This article, What It Means To Be A Progressive: A Manifesto, summarizes the document and it's four pillars: Freedom, Opportunity, Responsibility and Cooperation.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Mighty AC

[TimG]

A Manifesto, summarizes the document and it's four pillars: Freedom, Opportunity, Responsibility and Cooperation.

My first thought was turning 'freedom' into a pillar of Progressivism would require some seriously Orwellian logic.

I was not dissapointed:

First, we believe that all people should have freedom from undue interference by governments and others in carrying out their private affairs and personal beliefs

What it really means is only people who carryout their private affairs and personal beliefs that conform to the progressive PC ideology are to enjoy those freedoms. People who fail to conform are to be persecuted and condemned. Progressives are also great fans of government regulation which invariably denies people the freedom to make their own choices.

.

Second, we believe that all people should have the freedom to lead a fulfilling and secure life supported by the basic foundations of economic security and opportunity. This includes physical protections against bodily harm as well as adequate income, economic protections, health care and education, and other social provisions…

"Freedom to lead a secure and fulfilling life"???? The phrasing is bizarre. Freedom is about the being able to make choices. It is not about the outcome. Someone who makes bad choices may find that their life is neither fulfilled nor secure but according to the loopy progressive definition of freedom they are some how not free? Edited March 22, 2013 by TimG

[Shady]

My first thought was turning 'freedom' into a pillar of Progressivism would require some seriously Orwellian logic.I was not dissapointed:What it really means is only people who carryout the private affairs and personal beliefs that conform to the progressive PC ideology are to enjoy those freedoms. People who fail to conform are to be persecuted and condemned. Progressives are also great fans of government regulation which invariably denies people the freedom to make their own choices.."Freedom to lead a secure and fulfilling life"???? The phrasing is bizarre. Freedom is about the being able to make choices. It is not about the outcome. Someone who makes bad choices may find that their life is neither fulfilled nor secure but according to the loopy progressive definition of freedom the are some how not free?

Well said! Freedom and responsibility are the antithesis of progressives.

[Black Dog]

My first thought was turning 'freedom' into a pillar of Progressivism would require some seriously Orwellian logic.

I was not dissapointed

"I was anticipating disagreeing with this and with that in mind, I disagreed."

What it really means is only people who carryout their private affairs and personal beliefs that conform to the progressive PC ideology are to enjoy those freedoms. People who fail to conform are to be persecuted and condemned. Progressives are also great fans of government regulation which invariably denies people the freedom to make their own choices.

Cite? Source?

"Freedom to lead a secure and fulfilling life"???? The phrasing is bizarre. Freedom is about the being able to make choices. It is not about the outcome. Someone who makes bad choices may find that their life is neither fulfilled nor secure but according the loopy progressive definition of freedom they are some how not free?

Makes me wondere why they bothered with that poppycock about "the pursuit of happiness". It is not about the outcome after all. Someone who makes bad choices may find that their life is not happy but according some people's loopy definition of freedom they are some how not free?

[TimG]

why they bothered with that poppycock about "the pursuit of happiness". It is not about the outcome after all.

It is clear to me that operative word in that sentence is 'pursuit' - i.e. the quest to obtain - not the outcome. Someone who was able to pursue happiness yet failed is still free according to that definition. The definition in the linked manifesto does not allow for that possibility.

The progressive mindset in action:

Only hours after students installed a “Free Speech Wall” at Carleton University to prove that campus free speech was alive and well, it was torn down by an activist who claimed the wall was an “act of violence,” against the gay community.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/22/not-every-opinion-is-valid-activist-censors-peers-by-tearing-down-universitys-free-speech-wall/ Edited March 22, 2013 by TimG

[Black Dog]

It is clear to me that operative word in that sentence is 'pursuit' - i.e. the quest to obtain - not the outcome. Someone who was able to pursue happiness yet failed is still free according to that definition. The definition in the linked manifesto does not allow for that possibility.

It's saying the exact same thing. You aren't even focusing on the part of the quote taht matters anyway.

The progressive mindset in action:

And how is that representative of the progressive mindset?

[August1991]

As they or I say, "Gawd" - what a thread.

Inconprehensible how you can say that while also being wide open about your republicanism, which is the "progressive" (i.e. fashionable) thing to believe in among the Left in Canada.

WTF?

When it is a question of State, Republicanism is conservative. The French Revolution established the inherent instability of monarchy.

Someone who makes bad choices may find that their life is not happy but according some people's loopy definition of freedom they are some how not free?

There are consequences to choices.

We send old people to prison in part to rehabilitate, but mostly as a signal to young people. The older people suffer; they are mere (to use a modern term) "poster people" of what not to do in life.

[Black Dog]

There are consequences to choices.

We send old people to prison in part to rehabilitate, but mostly as a signal to young people. The older people suffer; they are mere (to use a modern term) "poster people" of what not to do in life.

Uh....okay.

[g_bambino]

When it is a question of State, Republicanism is conservative.

When it is a question of the Canadian state, which has always been monarchical, advocating for it to be made republican (as you do) is not conservative.