Moonlight Graham Posted July 22, 2023 Report Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) On 6/11/2023 at 11:40 PM, TreeBeard said: Read it. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/FullText.html The PM is mentioned in the Constitution Act. Do I need to quote the sections, or can you do a search? ? Those are small references to the PM in amendments to the Constitution via the Constitution Act, 1982. Let me know if you can find reference to the PM in the Constitution Act, 1867. Or if you can find where the PM's main roles and duties are described, their powers laid out, how the PM is chosen etc. You will find nothing but a few references to the PM in the newer amendments. The role of the PM is not written in our constitution, or within any law, it is followed by unwritten convention, ie: common law, in the British tradition. Our constitution is very different from the US's, they have civil law, where everything is explicitly written down. Only Quebec follows civil law. Edited July 22, 2023 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted July 22, 2023 Report Share Posted July 22, 2023 14 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: Let me know if you can find reference to the PM in the Constitution Act, 1867. You still didn’t read it, did you? You are just regurgitating a “fact” you heard. I told you how many and where the references to the PM are in the 1867 Constitution Act. Before you come back and regurgitate the same thing, actually go look at it online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted July 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 hour ago, TreeBeard said: You still didn’t read it, did you? You are just regurgitating a “fact” you heard. I told you how many and where the references to the PM are in the 1867 Constitution Act. Before you come back and regurgitate the same thing, actually go look at it online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted July 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2023 What would happen if, when the PM resigned or was dismissed, a new one was not appointed. For instance, if, after the next election, prime Minister Trudeau resigns, new ministers attend Government House and are sworn in, but a new Prime Minister is not appointed. What would happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 22, 2023 Report Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said: What would happen? A constitutional crisis. ...yawn. Nothing in other words which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Recall the old safety meeting adage - if nothing moves nothing gets hurt. What do you think would or wouldn't happen and why? Edited July 22, 2023 by eyeball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted July 22, 2023 Report Share Posted July 22, 2023 On 6/12/2023 at 1:43 PM, eyeball said: I'd like the monarch to have the power to monitor the PMO This is hilarious isn't it? Centuries of democracy how many of them and all missed not a shred of learning. Unelected figurehead to monitor barely elected figurehead with king-like powers. History knows so many cases of ineffective monarchs, lazy and dumb ones clearly nefarious ones not to mention outright evil, and the good ones are far and wide between, sung in legends. Sounds great! Will it help us? Let's hope like we always can, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted July 22, 2023 Report Share Posted July 22, 2023 4 hours ago, TreeBeard said: You still didn’t read it, did you? You are just regurgitating a “fact” you heard. I told you how many and where the references to the PM are in the 1867 Constitution Act. Before you come back and regurgitate the same thing, actually go look at it online. No you didn't. I searched it and the only references I found were from the Constitution Act, 1982, such was also included in your link. You don't know what you're talking about. Quote me something from Constitution Act, 1867 and prove me wrong. Show me where the role and powers of the Prime Minister is described at all anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 23, 2023 Report Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 hours ago, myata said: Let's hope like we always can, right? There's always hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 On 7/22/2023 at 12:21 PM, Queenmandy85 said: What would happen if, when the PM resigned or was dismissed, a new one was not appointed. For instance, if, after the next election, prime Minister Trudeau resigns, new ministers attend Government House and are sworn in, but a new Prime Minister is not appointed. What would happen? Prime Ministers aren't appointed. Show me where the paperwork is for the GG 'appointing" trudeau? Parties are asked to form gov't. The leader of the party is usually the PM in such cases. The leader is usually elected by the party supporters barring accident or misfortune necessitating someone else to step in. The party could very easily decide that all decisions would be by vote in caucus and the prime minister is basically a spokesperson to deliver the results. To a degree that's already part of the process. At the end of the day the GG serves a valuable and important position as the "circiut breaker' of democracy to prevent political shenannigans from destroying or crippling democracy and while that doestn' come up much it does come up once in a while. That's their job - leave it alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 On 7/22/2023 at 12:21 PM, Queenmandy85 said: a new Prime Minister is not appointed 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: Prime Ministers aren't appointed. Show me where the paperwork is for the GG 'appointing" trudeau? ? Good grief... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 58 minutes ago, eyeball said: ? Good grief... ummm - prime ministers really aren't appointed big guy LOLOLOL Did you not know that? He asked what would happen if one stepped down and a new one wasn't appointed ... theyr'e NEVER appointed ROFLMAO - You read that too quick and fu*ked up your reply didn't you Holy shit you're stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 45 minutes ago, CdnFox said: ummm - prime ministers really aren't appointed big guy LOLOLOL Did you not know that? He asked what would happen if one stepped down and a new one wasn't appointed ... theyr'e NEVER appointed Qualifications and selection. In 2008, a public opinion survey showed that 51 per cent of Canadians believed they voted to directly elect the prime minister. In fact, the prime minister, along with the other ministers in Cabinet, is appointed by the governor general on behalf of the monarch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Canada#:~:text=the United Kingdom.-,Qualifications and selection,on behalf of the monarch. Quote ROFLMAO - You read that too quick and fu*ked up your reply didn't you Holy shit you're stupid ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 10 minutes ago, eyeball said: In fact, the prime minister, along with the other ministers in Cabinet, is appointed by the governor general on behalf of the monarch. More accurately they are ceremonially appointed. The GG names the leader of the party that wins the most seats as PM, or the leader chosen by a coalition that holds the majority of seats. The PM and his advisors pick the Cabinet, and they are ceremonially sworn in by the GG. Rare is the time things work out like in BC where the BC Liberals won just one more seat, but the NDP & Greens immediately formed a coalition that would've instantly voted no confidence and forced another election, the Lt Gov. picked NDP's Horgan to appoint as Premier. So the PM is appointed, but not chosen by the GG as John Turner and Kim Campbell were. And NO, contrary to what you think from all the whining I'd safely bet that nobody on this board voted for Trudeau or ever could, because they don't live in his damn riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 41 minutes ago, eyeball said: ualifications and selection. In 2008, a public opinion survey showed that 51 per cent of Canadians believed they voted to directly elect the prime minister. In fact, the prime minister, along with the other ministers in Cabinet, is appointed by the governor general on behalf of the monarch. Sorry - they're wrong That's what you get for believing everything on wikipedia The Governor General doesn't actually even appoint the government. The GG invites a party to form government. That party can refuse and that has happened a few times in our history. By tradition the party with the most seats is asked to form government Although there is exceptions to this as well But here - since you like wikipedia, this explains it better (tho not correctly still) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_electoral_system The candidate with the most votes in a riding wins a seat in the House of Commons and represents that riding as its member of Parliament (MP). The governor general asks the leader of the party whose candidates have won the most seats to form a government; that leader becomes prime minister. So nope - no appointing at all. THe parties elect their leaders - the GG will ASK the party with the most seats (or on occasion a coalition) to form gov't. There are some exceptions. But at no time will the GG appoint anyone. THat would defeat the whole point of the gg. i have to say .. i'm honestly a little shocked and dismayed that you did not know this and thought that the GG chose the leader. I cannot believe how little most people know about how our system works. Usually this is where i'd make a joke about how stupid you are but honestly... it's really depressing that a canadian who's of voting age could not know this. Edited July 24, 2023 by CdnFox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, CdnFox said: i have to say .. i'm honestly a little shocked and dismayed that you did not know this and thought that the GG chose the leader. When a prime minister is defeated or decides to resign from office, he or she indicates his or her intention to resign to the governor general. In the case of a prime minister informing the governor general of his or her wish to retire and to resign from office, the governor general, in accepting the resignation, may seek the prime minister's advice as to a successor. The governor general then decides who is in the best position to command the confidence of the House of Commons, and invites that person, during a meeting at Rideau Hall, to form a government. https://wayback.archive-it.org/all/20080616012920/http://www.gg.ca/media/fs-fd/P1_e.asp Chooses...appoints...seeks...decides...invites...like lots of things related to our governance ambiguity abounds. And it's the PM BTW not the leader. Parties choose leaders. I'm not surprised you didn't know that. As I understand it we don't need parties at all and the Parliamentarians we send to Parliament can propose, move, elect, choose, pick yadda yadda a Prime Minister from amongst themselves to lead the country. $10 says that would make a lot of people apoplectic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted July 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 Okay, let us use the scenario where a new cabinet is being sworn in and, on instruction from the King, the GG does not swear in a Prime Minister. There is no legal means to compel the King to swear in a Prime Minister. The GG would function in the role, hence the term, “Governor in Council.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 What if the Monarch were to do this on occasion because they couldn't stomach things like the SNC Lavalin affair? The Monarch would effectively be sending Canadians back to the polls and saying "try again". OTOH he could ask Parliamentarians to pick someone else. The trouble is the Monarch would need real evidence or so you'd think. What if the Supreme Court told the Monarch to get lost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted July 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 To answer my own question, Parliament could refuse confidence in the ministry or refuse to vote supply bills to force the King to appoint a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted July 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 9 minutes ago, eyeball said: What if the Monarch were to do this on occasion because they couldn't stomach things like the SNC Lavalin affair? The Monarch would effectively be sending Canadians back to the polls and saying "try again". OTOH he could ask Parliamentarians to pick someone else. The trouble is the Monarch would need real evidence or so you'd think. What if the Supreme Court told the Monarch to get lost? The SC cannot do that legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said: The SC cannot do that legally. Its against the law? What law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 7 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said: To answer my own question, Parliament could refuse confidence in the ministry or refuse to vote supply bills to force the King to appoint a PM. Why wouldn't Parliament propose someone themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 1 hour ago, herbie said: More accurately they are ceremonially appointed. Good god. Does NOBODY on the left know how our gov't works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 49 minutes ago, eyeball said: Chooses...appoints...seeks...decides...invites...like lots of things related to our governance ambiguity abounds There's no ambiguity ni the slightest. None zip zero. The GG invites a party to form gov't. If by tradition they happen to get the opinion of someone else that's nice but they can't actually APPOINT anyone to be prime minister. You are easily one of the dumbest people on this board for trying to double down on that. Read a goddamn book you re tard. I can't believe you didn't know something as simple as how we get a prime minister. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted July 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 I’m not unaware of how things actually work. This is simply musings on how I sometimes wish they worked. What can I say. I’m a Conservative. Conservatives are going extinct, overwhelmed by the heresy of whigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 24, 2023 Report Share Posted July 24, 2023 8 hours ago, CdnFox said: There's no ambiguity ni the slightest. None zip zero. The GG invites a party to form gov't. If by tradition they happen to get the opinion of someone else that's nice but they can't actually APPOINT anyone to be prime minister. You are easily one of the dumbest people on this board for trying to double down on that. Read a goddamn book you re tard. I can't believe you didn't know something as simple as how we get a prime minister. So says the guy who believes not voting for someone is how we get our prime minister's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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