Office of the Prime Minister

[SpankyMcFarland]

The British system has stood the test of time but is showing some wear at the edges. As the PMO inexorably drains ever more power from committees and even the Cabinet, MPs have become largely redundant between elections. Opposition politicians bemoan this trend until they get into power themselves. 

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The British system has stood the test of time but is showing some wear at the edges. As the PMO inexorably drains ever more power from committees and even the Cabinet, MPs have become largely redundant between elections. Opposition politicians bemoan this trend until they get into power themselves. 

When voters bemoan it they get cancelled and blamed.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Forty years ago (!), civil servant Sir Humphrey Appleby held sway over British ministers and prime ministers

 

while the likes of Malcolm Tucker, Director of Communications, had taken over by the turn of the century. 

Lord knows what strange beasts steer the ship of state now. It’s a pity Canada can’t produce political shows of this caliber. The above was about the only excerpt youtube deemed safe enough to let me put up there. 

Edited July 24 by SpankyMcFarland

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

So says the guy who believes not voting for someone is how we get our prime minister's.

LOL - i guess if i looked as stupid as you do right now i'd lie and fake shit that other people said to distract from it as well.

You're a joke.  It's bad enough you didn't know in the first place but to then claim it's ambiguous  elevates you from M0RON to the Grand High Lama of the Kingdom of M0RONS.

You've basically lost the right to be taken even slightly seriously in any discussion about our government model.

[Queenmandy85]

The power in government rests with Parliament. They hold the power of the purse. As voters, we have become lazy. If my MP is too frightened to hold the PMO to account, that is on me. MP’s have the power to bring down the government. They did it to John Diefenbaker. They can do it to JT. 

Politics is a participation sport. If you don’t campaign, you can’t complain. We have a duty to nominate candidates with courage and integrity rather than the correct ideology.

That being said, somebody said they were unhappy O’Toole was a Red Tory. Only a Red Tory can get elected as a Conservative in Canada.

[CdnFox]

13 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The power in government rests with Parliament. They hold the power of the purse. As voters, we have become lazy. If my MP is too frightened to hold the PMO to account, that is on me. MP’s have the power to bring down the government. They did it to John Diefenbaker. They can do it to JT. 

Yes.  In a democracy at the end of the day the people are responsible for the gov't they get. If they allow corruption and bad governance to go unpunished then we get the justin trudeau's of the world.

Quote

Politics is a participation sport. If you don’t campaign, you can’t complain. We have a duty to nominate candidates with courage and integrity rather than the correct ideology.

Also true.  The cost of democracy is that the people have to show up and do their jobs. Democracy without the people's involvement is like a plane without a pilot - it can fly along for quite  a while but eventually it's going to crash hard.

 

Quote

That being said, somebody said they were unhappy O’Toole was a Red Tory. Only a Red Tory can get elected as a Conservative in Canada.

First off - he didn't get elected despite being  a red tory.  In fact he did about exactly as well as scheer did, and he was far more to the right. 

Secondly Harper was a blue tory.  Made it 9 years in power.

So no, that's demonstrably false.  But it's the kind of lie people on the left like to promote. It's the old "I'd vote for the conservatives if mike chong was the leader" routine and nobody's buying it.

PP will be the next prime minister, and probably with a majority.

[Queenmandy85]

Will he set up a preferred successor or trim any potential rivals’ wings?

[Queenmandy85]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Yes.  In a democracy at the end of the day the people are responsible for the gov't they get. If they allow corruption and bad governance to go unpunished then we get the justin trudeau's of the world.

Also true.  The cost of democracy is that the people have to show up and do their jobs. Democracy without the people's involvement is like a plane without a pilot - it can fly along for quite  a while but eventually it's going to crash hard.

 

First off - he didn't get elected despite being  a red tory.  In fact he did about exactly as well as scheer did, and he was far more to the right. 

Secondly Harper was a blue tory.  Made it 9 years in power.

So no, that's demonstrably false.  But it's the kind of lie people on the left like to promote. It's the old "I'd vote for the conservatives if mike chong was the leader" routine and nobody's buying it.

PP will be the next prime minister, and probably with a majority.

You got me on Harper. 👍

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Will he set up a preferred successor or trim any potential rivals’ wings?

That' has always been an issue in the liberal party - it tends to break down into camps.  We had the marinites and the chretienites for the longest time,  and justin certainly has put loyal people around him so we could see a bit of a 'coaliton' of non-trudeauians pushing back against that in the next race.

I doubt there will be any super-clear successor so it should be quite a fight.  We'll see if carney decides to throw his hat in the ring, he's the only immediately obvious 'compromise candidate' i can think of.

[Queenmandy85]

Freeland seemed to be the obvious rival. I figured that was why she was put in Finance, to load her up with baggage.

Edited July 24 by Queenmandy85

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Freeland seemed to be the obvious rival. I figured that was why she was put in Finance, to load her up with baggage.

Seemed likely. It's basically poisoned her for running for prime minister. A case of 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer" i think.  He's stuck her with defending the indefensible and "her" budgets will haunt any chance she has of future prospects of leadership.

[Queenmandy85]

I’ve always said “Keep your friends close and your enemies in Trade and Commerce.”

[Queenmandy85]

All parties have their factions. I was going to say Dalton Camps. The CPC is split with Red And Blue Tories who come together in their antipathy against Reform.

 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Politics is a participation sport.

It'll be a bloodsport and probably within our lifetimes given how things are going.

Is Canada still worth shedding blood over? If not over domestic politics then whose?

Edited July 24 by eyeball

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 7/24/2023 at 3:30 PM, CdnFox said:

Seemed likely. It's basically poisoned her for running for prime minister. A case of 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer" i think.  He's stuck her with defending the indefensible and "her" budgets will haunt any chance she has of future prospects of leadership.

An ambitious politician should want the Finance portfolio as it’s the number two job in our government. Of any PM hopeful the question should be asked, what sort of Finance minister would they make? Running a country isn’t all big picture stuff. In less complicated jurisdictions, Health is the most poisoned chalice - there’s always horrible news there - while the way things are going in Canada, the environment portfolio will be a formidable challenge to make or break an up-and-comer. For starters, a forest the size of India is ready to go up in smoke and our drama-drenched, on-again, off-again romance with oil will need to be managed. Let’s hope the armed forces of Russia and China don’t loom larger in the future. If they do, then Defence will have to become a much bigger post than the backwater it is at the moment. 

Freeland is one of the outstanding performers in the government, no question, but modern electorates want entertainment as well as competence and she may be a bit too didactic, too schoolteachery for our tastes. Someone who may be getting more attention after the shuffle, Anita Anand, seems cut from a similar mould. 

Edited July 26 by SpankyMcFarland

[myata]

Proportional representation is the way forward in a complex modern society. It makes sense and it works. No need for tortured convolutions only to retain an outdated and grossly ineffective in the modern world hand-run system.

[CdnFox]

On 7/24/2023 at 11:13 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

All parties have their factions. I was going to say Dalton Camps. The CPC is split with Red And Blue Tories who come together in their antipathy against Reform.

 

Factions are one thing but that is not the same as being split  Or having dedicate armed camps as in the case of the chretienites vs martinites

A little division on policy or the like is fairly healthy, and yes it exists in all parties. But that is not the same as a 'fracture'.  the cpc for example isn't "fractured' between red and blue.  There's different opinions and such but at the end of the day they still work well together

But the libs have suffered from serious fractures and power struggles not based on different opinions but on different loyalties. And that's a little different.

[impartialobserver]

interesting OP. I do not know the office of the Prime Minister well enough to really weigh in. I will say that it is peculiar how Presidents/PM's are so nearly universally disliked and yet we insist on having them. I know that I am guilty.. I have a profound dislike/distrust of all politicians no matter the party or their office. 

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

interesting OP. I do not know the office of the Prime Minister well enough to really weigh in. I will say that it is peculiar how Presidents/PM's are so nearly universally disliked and yet we insist on having them. I know that I am guilty.. I have a profound dislike/distrust of all politicians no matter the party or their office. 

It's been my experience that any person of authority who actually does their job will be generally disliked.  Most people don't like judges.   Or cops. There aren't all that many mayors who remain universally popular for long.

It is said that the job of courts/govt is to make sure everyone who interacts with them is equally unhappy No matter what you do it pisses off someone, and do enough things and you've pissed off everyone.  It's just the way it is, not really worth worrying about. 

[myata]

Canada has one quasi-election (because the meaningful choice is limited to the bare, absolute minimum possible) as a democratic facade for a hand-run top-down bureaucratic system behind the curtain, and nothing else, not a single other independent element that cannot be controlled. This is factual now: all the extravagancies of the pandemic, not a single court had anything to say. Just do what you like, free ticket, here.

It cannot be modernized and always looks and works only to feed and propagate itself. This is the real root cause of most if not all essential problems. A toy ritual cannot be a strong and lasting foundation of a modern democracy.

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Factions are one thing but that is not the same as being split  Or having dedicate armed camps as in the case of the chretienites vs martinites

A little division on policy or the like is fairly healthy, and yes it exists in all parties. But that is not the same as a 'fracture'.  the cpc for example isn't "fractured' between red and blue.  There's different opinions and such but at the end of the day they still work well together

But the libs have suffered from serious fractures and power struggles not based on different opinions but on different loyalties. And that's a little different.

The CPC fracture is between the conservatives and the reformers. When the reformers took over, they purged a lot of conservatives and the bitterness between them is far deeper than anything the grits have. I keep reminding myself that it is a sport but the socreds really make it hard. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The CPC fracture is between the conservatives and the reformers.

The deplorables haven't been enough to bring these two together in common cause?

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The CPC fracture is between the conservatives and the reformers. When the reformers took over, they purged a lot of conservatives and the bitterness between them is far deeper than anything the grits have. I keep reminding myself that it is a sport but the socreds really make it hard. 

there's no fracture. there's definitely 'camps' or the like but despite that the cpc functions well with both sides making compromise and talking to each other.

And i was there for the whole merger - sorry but your recollection of events is WAAAAAAYYY off    As it was massive accomodation was made by both sides and they really came together and gelled far better than people though they would'

YOUR version is how chretien thought it would pan out if it happened and he wasn't afraid of it - but that's not how it went at all and very quickly everyone was on the same playbook and harper kicked martin's ass and then punted it a short time after being formed.

And today is no different.  The CPC is pretty solidly united despite differences.

[Nefarious Banana]

Elect a clown . . . expect a circus.

[CdnFox]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKckzEMWxQ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D

His mass firing of ministers is Trudeau’s admission that his government is failing as everything costs more, work doesn’t pay, housing costs have doubled and crime & drugs are common on our streets.

Firing ministers won't change that—firing the Prime Minister will.

-  PIERRE POLIEVRE

 

Ooo - shots fired