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Just how pointless and stupid our climate reductions efforts are


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6 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

For the moment, the catastrophic conditions we are facing have been largely caused by us in the West, and not yet by China. To those in Western and northern Canada facing this horrific new man-made age of fire, all I can say is good luck. 

You are dreaming in technicolour.  You have a totally false conception of climate change and what it is caused by.

Atmospheric CO2 is 97% caused by nature and it is an essential gas for life on earth.

Man's contribution of CO2 to the atmosphere is miniscule.  

There is no proof man's small contribution is even causing climate change.  There are many factors that contribute to climate change.  

There is no science that ever proved man is causing global warming or climate change.

Canada's fossil fuel CO2 contribution to the atmosphere is a very small part of the whole of what man contributes .   Man contributes about 3% of the total CO2.  Out of that China contributes 28% and Canada contributes a tiny fraction of that.

Climate has changed throughout history many times.

The earth has had many hot periods throughout history long before the industrial age, that is before motor vehicles existed.   Nothing to do with man.

Quit smoking all that pot.

Edited by blackbird
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9 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Maybe in this country But in Western Europe they've been pouring hundreds of billions into lowering Co2 emissions, to the point they got caught flat-footed when the Russians cut off their natural gas. Mind you, the stupidity of closing down nuclear power plants in Germany and Japan has a part fo play there, too. The Japanese have finally realized that's a dumb idea and are retreating but the Germans seem determined to screw up their economy as much as possible.

But blaming the West, as you guys tend to do, again ignores the real issue. While the West HAS largely taken cilmate change seriously and has been doing its best to wean itself off fossil fuels the developing world has ignored the problem and is continuing to build hundreds of coal power plants.  And guys like you are like "That's okay. You're good. You keep doing that. I'll keep blaming whitey!"

What catastrophic conditions? Forest fires have been on a downward slope in Canada for twenty five years now. This is an anomaly. 

https://cwfis.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/ha/nfdb

 

The West did not take climate change seriously. The science has been clear for decades but very little was done. 
 

 

 

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

You are dreaming in technicolour.  You have a totally false conception of climate change and what it is caused by.

Atmospheric CO2 is 97% caused by nature and it is an essential gas for life on earth.

Man's contribution of CO2 to the atmosphere is miniscule.  

There is no proof man's small contribution is even causing climate change.  There are many factors that contribute to climate change.  

There is no science that ever proved man is causing global warming or climate change.

Canada's fossil fuel CO2 contribution to the atmosphere is a very small part of the whole of what man contributes .   Man contributes about 3% of the total CO2.  Out of that China contributes 28% and Canada contributes a tiny fraction of that.

Climate has changed throughout history many times.

The earth has had many hot periods throughout history long before the industrial age, that is before motor vehicles existed.   Nothing to do with man.

Quit smoking all that pot.

This is the problem. As the country burns we are told everything is ok. 

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14 hours ago, I am Groot said:

But I know that's not something you want to hear.

I have absolutely no reason to hype this problem. I wish it wasn’t there. But it is. All the science points that way and the science was denied and resisted for decades by the oil industry, wasn’t it? Should we in the West sit around and do nothing until China joins us? The fires will not be going away, and this year is already very worrying on the fire front:

Quote

Canada is on track for its worst-ever year of wildfire destruction as warm and dry conditions are forecast to persist through to the end of the summer after an unprecedented start to the fire season, officials said on Monday.

Blazes are burning in nearly all Canadian provinces and territories, and federal government officials said their modeling shows increased wildfire risk in most of Canada through August.

"The distribution of fires from coast to coast this year is unusual. At this time of the year, fires usually occur only on one side of the country at a time, most often that being in the west," said Michael Norton, an official with Canada's Natural Resources ministry.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-track-its-worst-ever-wildfire-season-2023-06-05/

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5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Good work!!!   I was purely speculating but looks like I hit the nail on the head.  Too bad Trudeau, minister Guilbeault and the rest of the war-on-climate-change clowns will never recognize it and admit they are wasting their time and our money. 

 If that was it for 2021 imagine how much worse it will be for 2023 as the fires are much worse.

Well the solution to forest fires releasing carbon  is to plant trees.  If only trudeau would promise to plant trees!  Oh.... wait.... 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tree-planting-update-cp-1.6284165

The federal government has planted less than half a per cent of the two billion trees it pledged to put in the ground across Canada by 2030,

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5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Atmospheric CO2 is 97% caused by nature and it is an essential gas for life on earth.

Man's contribution of CO2 to the atmosphere is miniscule. 

Climate has changed throughout history many times.

Yeah Right!

Who provided the evidence that climate changed many times? How fast did it change?

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15 minutes ago, psikeyhackr said:

Yeah Right!

Who provided the evidence that climate changed many times? How fast did it change?

well there is a shit tonne of that evidence out there and much much scientific research has been done.  Read a book.

As to how fast it depends.  Sometimes pretty fast, sometimes not for millenia.  Read about that time it didn't rain for a million years then rained for a million years :)

 

At the beginning of the 1300's - the worst century in history to live in by far -  the weather which had been stable for ages suddenly shifted and it caused mass crop failures across all of europe and asia and starvation became rampant and a constant threat for the better part of the century as crops no longer grew like they used to as a result of the weather change. That was pretty fast.

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3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The West did not take climate change seriously. The science has been clear for decades but very little was done. 

The EU alone has spent over $300 billion in the last decade fighting climate change. How much has the developing world spent? How much has the developing world spent building coal plants?

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I have absolutely no reason to hype this problem. I wish it wasn’t there. But it is. All the science points that way and the science was denied and resisted for decades by the oil industry, wasn’t it? Should we in the West sit around and do nothing until China joins us? The fires will not be going away, and this year is already very worrying on the fire front:

As I pointed out and posted a cite to support, forest firest have been trending down in Canada for 25 years. This spring/year is an anomaly. Don't blame everything on climate change.

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1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

The EU alone has spent over $300 billion in the last decade fighting climate change. How much has the developing world spent? How much has the developing world spent building coal plants?

As I pointed out and posted a cite to support, forest firest have been trending down in Canada for 25 years. This spring/year is an anomaly. Don't blame everything on climate change.

Do you really believe that? Is that wishful thinking an example of what a prudent conservative should do? Whatever about frequency etc. (and factoring in improved fire fighting techniques and prevention) we have seen fires of unparalleled intensity in Canada in the past twenty years, fires that create their own weather. If you live here, it would be absurd to pretend that everything is fine and dandy. 

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-may-23-2019-1.5145446/fire-driven-weather-is-new-reality-for-canada-and-elsewhere-expert-cautions-1.5146262

Quote

A change in weather patterns, stoked by climate change, has a wildfire expert predicting "a hot, smoky future" for Canadian summers.

The spectre of wildfires looms in B.C., Alberta and Ontario — provinces that have been repeatedly scorched by catastrophic fires in recent years.

Mike Flannigan, a professor of wildland fire at the University of Alberta, is warning that a dramatic rise in temperature and a changing climate have pushed things over the edge and will continue to cause unprecedented wildfires.

"We can't always rely on our experience and the history of what we've seen in fire; we're moving into new territory," he told CBC Radio's special Smoked Out.

An average of about 2.5 million hectares of land is charred every year during Canada's annual wildfire season, he says. 

"That's half the size of Nova Scotia, and it's doubled since the early '70s due to our changing climate," said Flannigan, who's also the director of the Western Partnership for Wildland Fire Science in Edmonton.

Climate change's role in reshaping wildfires

His research suggests the size of land consumed by wildfires will double or quadruple — again — as the earth heats up.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/we-have-to-learn-to-live-with-fire-how-wildfires-are-changing-canadian-summers-1.5135539

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42 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

well there is a shit tonne of that evidence out there and much much scientific research has been done.  Read a book.

As to how fast it depends.  Sometimes pretty fast, sometimes not for millenia.  Read about that time it didn't rain for a million years then rained for a million years :).

The person I was quoting said 97% of CO2 was natural and other unscientific nonsense.

Fast natural change has been 1 degree C per 1000 years. We have gone up that much in 80 years. We have raised the CO2 in the atmosphere by 33%. Not much point in spending lots of time communicating with people about stuff that is easy to find if they were objectively interested.

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3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I have absolutely no reason to hype this problem. I wish it wasn’t there. But it is. All the science points that way and the science was denied and resisted for decades by the oil industry, wasn’t it? Should we in the West sit around and do nothing until China joins us? The fires will not be going away, and this year is already very worrying on the fire front:

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-track-its-worst-ever-wildfire-season-2023-06-05/

And you still think putting more and more carbon taxes on everyone and killing our vital energy industry will stop climate change and these forest fires.  Sad.  Climate change is natural and man cannot stop it any more than stop the hurricanes every year.

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22 minutes ago, psikeyhackr said:

The person I was quoting said 97% of CO2 was natural and other unscientific nonsense.

hahahahaha.    Wow, what ignorance!   You better do a little study before commenting.  You just said the dumbest thing possible.   You don't even know the basics of CO2 in the atmosphere.  Dealing with you is child's play.

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Okay I'll bite, what is it that will be worse?

Natural CO2 emissions caused by wildfires.

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7 hours ago, blackbird said:

You are dreaming in technicolour.  You have a totally false conception of climate change and what it is caused by.

Atmospheric CO2 is 97% caused by nature and it is an essential gas for life on earth.

Man's contribution of CO2 to the atmosphere is miniscule.  

There is no proof man's small contribution is even causing climate change.  There are many factors that contribute to climate change.  

There is no science that ever proved man is causing global warming or climate change.

Canada's fossil fuel CO2 contribution to the atmosphere is a very small part of the whole of what man contributes .   Man contributes about 3% of the total CO2.  Out of that China contributes 28% and Canada contributes a tiny fraction of that.

Climate has changed throughout history many times.

The earth has had many hot periods throughout history long before the industrial age, that is before motor vehicles existed.   Nothing to do with man.

Quit smoking all that pot.

Show me the basis of your claims.  
 

I work on engines.  The amount of air sucked into a car engine is unbelievable.  It’s on the order of a two inch square, five miles tall, every second. And that’s what gets burned with the gas. 

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50 minutes ago, blackbird said:

And you still think putting more and more carbon taxes on everyone and killing our vital energy industry will stop climate change and these forest fires.  Sad.  Climate change is natural and man cannot stop it any more than stop the hurricanes every year.

Yes, the climate does change naturally but we have added another component to that - man-made climate change. Most of the fossil fuel boosters on your side of the argument have moved on from denying the reality of anthropogenic climate change. You should ask them why. 

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2 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Yes, the climate does change naturally but we have added another component to that - man-made climate change. Most of the fossil fuel boosters on your side of the argument have moved on from denying the reality of anthropogenic climate change. You should ask them why. 

Denying human caused climate change now is basically on a par with denying the Earth is a sphere.  I don't really believe that those who do deny it actually believe what they are saying.  I think they are just afraid someone will take away their toys.

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This issue struck home for me last year when a wildfire in our province threatened to spread to a neighbouring town. It was no longer something abstract, out there in tv land, but part of my life. I’ve no shares in Chinese battery companies that I know of, nor have I shorted BP. My own prosperity will take a hit from it. So I’m not hyping this to own the Tories or some other such foolishness. It’s what I believe based on what I am seeing and reading, unfortunately. 
 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
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1 hour ago, psikeyhackr said:

The person I was quoting said 97% of CO2 was natural and other unscientific nonsense.

Fast natural change has been 1 degree C per 1000 years.

 

Recently perhaps but not always historically. As noted in that video there's lots of times when the earth has risen in temperature quite "Suddenly".

Now - full disclosure i feel that while yes, there are probably many other factors substantially contributing. humans play a significant role in what's going on with 'climate change'.

But - the truth of it is that the idea this has never happened before or some how significant climate shifts haven't happened even within human history (before there was enough of us to do anything) isn't really accurate.

In any case -  the people pushing this for the most part don't live as if they really believe it. And  Canada's contribution is so small it would go unnoticed if we all died and stopped producing.

So - IF it's a "real concern" why would the liberal gov't keep missing it's climate goals and why woudln't they be focused on helping produce technology to reduce or eliminate or capture carbon out put that we could sell to countries like china that really ARE a problem?

They obviously have access to the best data, and they're not really worried at all.

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21 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Denying human caused climate change now is basically on a par with denying the Earth is a sphere.  I don't really believe that those who do deny it actually believe what they are saying.  I think they are just afraid someone will take away their toys.

You and SpankyMcFarland believe the climate hysteria because you are sucked into the climate hysteria tsunami.  NO other reason.  You know nothing about any science around it.   You are the type that just FOLLOWS THE HERD.

"

The video above is from Friends of Science, a Canada-based “non-profit organization run by dedicated volunteers comprised mainly of active and retired earth and atmospheric scientists, engineers, and other professionals.” On the same day last week that Greta Thunberg made an impassioned speech to the United Nations about her fears of a climate emergency, a group of 500 prominent scientists and professionals, led by the CLINTEL co-founder Guus Berkhout, sent this registered letter to the United Nations Secretary-General stating that there is no climate emergency and climate policies should be designed to benefit the lives of people. Here’s the press release, here’ the list of 500 signees, and here’s the opening of the letter:

A global network of more than 500 knowledgeable and experienced scientists and professionals in climate and related fields have the honor to address to Your Excellencies the attached European Climate Declaration, for which the signatories to this letter are the national ambassadors. The general-circulation models of climate on which international policy is at present founded are unfit for their purpose.

Therefore, it is cruel as well as imprudent to advocate the squandering of trillions of dollars on the basis of results from such immature models. Current climate policies pointlessly and grievously undermine the economic system, putting lives at risk in countries denied access to affordable, reliable electrical energy. We urge you to follow a climate policy based on sound science, realistic economics and genuine concern for those harmed by costly but unnecessary attempts at mitigation

Here are the specific points about climate change highlighted in the letter:

1 Natural as well as anthropogenic factors cause warming.
2. Warming is far slower than predicted.
3. Climate policy relies on inadequate models.
4. CO2 is not a pollutant. It is a plant food that is essential to all life on Earth. Photosynthesis is a blessing. More CO2 is beneficial for nature, greening the Earth: additional CO2 in the air has promoted growth in global plant biomass. It is also good for agriculture, increasing the yields of crops worldwide.
5. Global warming has not increased natural disasters.
6. Climate policy must respect scientific and economic realities.
7. There is no climate emergency. Therefore, there is no cause for panic.

MP: What about that “consensus” and “settled science” about climate change we always hear about? How can there be a consensus when there’s a global network of more than 500 knowledgeable and experienced scientists and professionals in climate and related fields who challenge the “settled science”?

Actually, challenging the consensus among the scientific community is nothing new, but those the voices of those challenging the consensus are always drowned out by the tsunami of climate hysteria from the climate alarmists. For example, in 2012 a group of more than 125 scientists sent an open letter to the United Nations warning that scientific evidence refuted UN Secretary-General’s Ban Ki-Moon repeated assertions on weather and climate. Those warnings of climate hysteria unsupported by the scientific evidence were ignored in 2012, just like the letter from the 500 prominent scientists and professionals will be ignored in 2019. In other words, it’s “deja vu all over again.”

There Is No Climate Emergency, Say 500 Experts in Letter to the United Nations | American Enterprise Institute - AEI

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8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

In any case -  the people pushing this for the most part don't live as if they really believe it. And  Canada's contribution is so small it would go unnoticed if we all died and stopped producing.

So - IF it's a "real concern" why would the liberal gov't keep missing it's climate goals and why woudln't they be focused on helping produce technology to reduce or eliminate or capture carbon out put that we could sell to countries like china that really ARE a problem?

They obviously have access to the best data, and they're not really worried at all.

Because governments are very poor at reacting to slowly developing long-term problems where costs are immediate and benefits are slow and hard to see. People are too. Have you never procrastinated on sorting out a serious problem? 

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4 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Because governments are very poor at reacting to slowly developing long-term problems where costs are immediate and benefits are slow and hard to see. People are too. Have you never procrastinated on sorting out a serious problem? 

It's been 40 years.  I think we're past the "procrastination' stage :)

And they had time to implement a carbon tax and other things, they've enacted other policies.  While i realize that 'moving at the speed of gov't'  is a standing joke for all gov'ts i think that the trudeau gov't has had the time but made a conscious  choice not to take it seriously .

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1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Denying human caused climate change now is basically on a par with denying the Earth is a sphere.  I don't really believe that those who do deny it actually believe what they are saying.  I think they are just afraid someone will take away their toys.

I think they've simply switched to saying it doesn't matter.

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