Just how pointless and stupid our climate reductions efforts are

[Guest]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

I think the Americans will wind up doing that. What we need to do is change our laws, remove ourselves from refugee treaties we've signed, and be prepared to stop, arrest, and deport migrants as soon as they get here. 

Lest you think that's cold-hearted. It is. But our society will not survive if millions of impoverished third-world people arrive. It will be reduced to chaos and disorder. David Frum once said something to the effect that if politicians say only fascists will protect the borders the voters will elect fascists to protect the borders. That is exactly what will happen.

I think that's probably correct.  I support the world view of climate change, which is probably overly idealistic, but the "I'm allright, Jack" view is the one that will probably prevail.  For a while, anyway.  That doesn't mean things will be okay.  Imagine a Trump in charge of Canada playing to the Reason10s and Deluges of our population.  I'd definitely prefer the refugees.

And such a situation will only last so long.  Eventually it is to be supposed that the millions of impoverished third-world people will become hundreds of millions and they will organize.  I have no idea what will happen then, but I bet it won't be pretty.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Given the crap governments down there I doubt Texas has done much of anything but I bet they have different trees down there and in Mexico, ones that perhaps don't need as much water. Perhaps if areas of Canada become dryer we might consider planting some of those.

Sure, but basically it's the Boreal Forest that is burning.  That's a natural occurrence and the trees naturally regenerate afterwards. If it wasn't for all the people in the way we could probably leave it to it.

As for planting trees to capture carbon, I don't know which ones do that the best, or how to reconcile our need for that process with the need for future fire control.

[eyeball]

24 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Eventually it is to be supposed that the millions of impoverished third-world people will become hundreds of millions and they will organize.  I have no idea what will happen then, but I bet it won't be pretty.

It'll be WW3.

[I am Groot]

31 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I think that's probably correct.  I support the world view of climate change, which is probably overly idealistic, but the "I'm allright, Jack" view is the one that will probably prevail.  For a while, anyway.  That doesn't mean things will be okay.  Imagine a Trump in charge of Canada playing to the Reason10s and Deluges of our population.  I'd definitely prefer the refugees.

It will not be the Reasons and Deluges making the decisions. It will be the bulk of the population once it realizes that allowing so many impoverished, unskilled people in will destroy their society Once you get chaos or seem threatened with it people will rush to embrace a strong man the way the Russians embraced Putin. Although here's hoping our Putin will be less corrupt than theirs. 

31 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

And such a situation will only last so long.  Eventually it is to be supposed that the millions of impoverished third-world people will become hundreds of millions and they will organize.  I have no idea what will happen then, but I bet it won't be pretty.

Mostly they will kill each other. They're certainly not going to put together a high-tech weapons program that will enable them to invade the West.

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Once you get chaos or seem threatened with it people will rush to embrace a strong man the way the Russians embraced Putin. Although here's hoping our Putin will be less corrupt than theirs.

I certainly won't stand for watching people like you degenerate us like that. You'll have a civil war to deal with too. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

It will not be the Reasons and Deluges making the decisions. It will be the bulk of the population once it realizes that allowing so many impoverished, unskilled people in will destroy their society Once you get chaos or seem threatened with it people will rush to embrace a strong man the way the Russians embraced Putin. Although here's hoping our Putin will be less corrupt than theirs. 

It is to be hoped, yes.  I wouldn't bet my mutual funds on that going well at all, though.

3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Mostly they will kill each other. They're certainly not going to put together a high-tech weapons program that will enable them to invade the West.

They will kill each other as well, yes.  But on the understanding that we are talking conjecture here, they won't need a high-tech weapons program that will enable them to invade the West in order to make us suffer.  They just need some people willing to squeeze through a hole with a backpack on.  I bet there will be lots of those, with an enormous variety of backpack contents. 

[I am Groot]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

It is to be hoped, yes.  I wouldn't bet my mutual funds on that going well at all, though.

This was from the Spectator several years ago. It's still quite a sober take.

millions if not billions of decent, ordinary people in need of food, clean water, shelter and medical care are bound to constitute a form of moral blackmail. They will all have heartbreaking stories. And if we continue to confront the issue as a question of sympathy rather than existential self-interest, they will nearly all get in.

Thomas Friedman has astutely characterized the West vs the rest as order vs disorder. But with over-stressed welfare systems, accelerating cultural upheaval and rising right-wing militancy, the lands of order can slide to chaos themselves. If in the next few decades we’re looking at migration on the scale I think we are, we may be required to develop a hard heart, or simply surrender to forces larger than we can control. I’m not sure which is worse.

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

They will kill each other as well, yes.  But on the understanding that we are talking conjecture here, they won't need a high-tech weapons program that will enable them to invade the West in order to make us suffer.  They just need some people willing to squeeze through a hole with a backpack on.  I bet there will be lots of those, with an enormous variety of backpack contents. 

I'm guessing the defenses at the US border will become quite a bit more elaborate - and likely automated. I'm thinking minefields, AI guns or lasers. Or for all I know some of those Boston Dynamics robots with guns patrolling up and down along the wall. I'm not sure what Canadians will have the stomach for. That depends on how many ships packed with refugees wind up on our shores. I don't see Canadians sinking approaching boats, but on the other hand, within a few decades Canadian-born people will likely be a minority in this country. Those born and raised in India, Pakistan, China etc. are likely to have much harder hearts...

[I am Groot]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I certainly won't stand for watching people like you degenerate us like that. You'll have a civil war to deal with too. 

I'm not a fan of Putin.  You could do far worse than 'people like me'. But if the difference between Canada surviving as a place of relative prosperity and peace, and degenerating into something that looks like the slums of Calcutta on a good day means getting rid of progressives I'm up for that too.

It would be a damned short war, btw, as conservatives have all the guns.

[Guest]

Just now, I am Groot said:

I'm not a fan of Putin.  You could do far worse than 'people like me'. But if the difference between Canada surviving as a place of relative prosperity and peace, and degenerating into something that looks like the slums of Calcutta on a good day means getting rid of progressives I'm up for that too.

It would be a damned short war, btw, as conservatives have all the guns.

Yeah, but eyeball has a navy!

[I am Groot]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, but eyeball has a navy!

Realistically, a war between one side that is so soft-hearted they can't bear to force refugees away even if failing to so so threatens starvation for their own kids - and a group that has hardened their hearts into killing whoever they need to to ensure their family's survival is not going to last long.

Edited June 11, 2023 by I am Groot

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

This was from the Spectator several years ago. It's still quite a sober take.

millions if not billions of decent, ordinary people in need of food, clean water, shelter and medical care are bound to constitute a form of moral blackmail. They will all have heartbreaking stories. And if we continue to confront the issue as a question of sympathy rather than existential self-interest, they will nearly all get in.

Thomas Friedman has astutely characterized the West vs the rest as order vs disorder. But with over-stressed welfare systems, accelerating cultural upheaval and rising right-wing militancy, the lands of order can slide to chaos themselves. If in the next few decades we’re looking at migration on the scale I think we are, we may be required to develop a hard heart, or simply surrender to forces larger than we can control. I’m not sure which is worse.

I'm guessing the defenses at the US border will become quite a bit more elaborate - and likely automated. I'm thinking minefields, AI guns or lasers. Or for all I know some of those Boston Dynamics robots with guns patrolling up and down along the wall. I'm not sure what Canadians will have the stomach for. That depends on how many ships packed with refugees wind up on our shores. I don't see Canadians sinking approaching boats, but on the other hand, within a few decades Canadian-born people will likely be a minority in this country. Those born and raised in India, Pakistan, China etc. are likely to have much harder hearts...

We're entering the realm of science fiction now, but not unreasonably so.  I could not even begin to predict what the world will look like in thirty years.  I don't imagine it will be better.

[I am Groot]

Looking at those Boston Dynamics videos, especially the dogs, or whatever they call the four-legged robots - I want to get some very big guns, maybe with armor-piercing bullets. They look like some of the stuff from scary science fiction movies like the Terminator series. What will they be like as we continue to improve battery power and then add AI? 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Looking at those Boston Dynamics videos, especially the dogs, or whatever they call the four-legged robots - I want to get some very big guns, maybe with armor-piercing bullets. They look like some of the stuff from scary science fiction movies like the Terminator series. What will they be like as we continue to improve battery power and then add AI? 

If it's the same AI that offed that drone operator in the US army simulation it will be pretty bad.

[I am Groot]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If it's the same AI that offed that drone operator in the US army simulation it will be pretty bad.

Do you want to have one of these giving you the eye?

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Do you want to have one of these giving you the eye?

 

Kevlar jockstrap stocks will be worth an investment!

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

It'll be WW3.

Which will reduce the population which will reduce global warming which means things will go back to normal.

Sounds like problem solved to me  

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

I'm not a fan of Putin.  You could do far worse than 'people like me'. But if the difference between Canada surviving as a place of relative prosperity and peace, and degenerating into something that looks like the slums of Calcutta on a good day means getting rid of progressives I'm up for that too.

It would be a damned short war, btw, as conservatives have all the guns.

Pffft you've never used your guns before despite all the commies and Nazis conservatives believe are taking over the country. You people have always lacked the courage of your convictions. 

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Pffft you've never used your guns before despite all the commies and Nazis conservatives believe are taking over the country. You people have always lacked the courage of your convictions. 

Sure we did. Last time someone actually tried to take over we threw them back and burnt down their white house.    of course - it was actually pink at the time so that might have been less of a 'revenge' thing and more of just a fashion protest.

[WestCanMan]

On 6/10/2023 at 6:15 PM, bcsapper said:

You get medical science mixed up with climate science?  It sounds to me like you just don't like science.

What's your sign?

No one ditched science to the extent that the vaxtards did. Climatards are small potatoes by comparison. 

[WestCanMan]

On 6/10/2023 at 6:33 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Basically, what we’re dealing with is a Ferris wheel of explanations as to why we shouldn’t turn the oil off. Now it’s the hydrocarbon usage of other countries that forms the most popular argument. Before, the same type of people were fond of  denying climate change completely. The arguments change but their intent doesn't. 

This is climate change v10.0.

Global freezing ain't happening, we didn't run out of gas in 1990, and it's only the biggest liars on the entire planet that are hyping this latest iteration of GWBullsh. 

[WestCanMan]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:12 PM, psikeyhackr said:

It didn't say what was happening in the 14th century. It was the Little Ice Age. I don't think anyone is saying that CO2 is going to do that to the global climate.

Little known fact: the Little Ice Age was caused when Beano was invented, and people gave it to their farting oxen to make plowing less dangerous. 

[cougar]

On 6/11/2023 at 7:47 AM, I am Groot said:

Given the crap governments down there I doubt Texas has done much of anything but I bet they have different trees down there and in Mexico, ones that perhaps don't need as much water. Perhaps if areas of Canada become dryer we might consider planting some of those.

The carbon tax is just a grab, I agree.

But I can't just point a finger at China and think that I am exempt from taking any measures to protect (this will not be sufficient any more, we have to use the word "restore" or "revive") the environment.

I have pointed out this many times: Canada's CO2 emissions in Canada do not equate with CO2 emissions caused by Canadians.

 

[cougar]

On 6/11/2023 at 9:05 AM, I am Groot said:

Do you want to have one of these giving you the eye?

 

I will send the duo to the closest bank branch to fetch me the cash!

[SpankyMcFarland]

Smoke from Quebec has put Newfoundland in a dusky haze for a few days now. The sunsets are pretty, other consequences less so. After being outside for an hour I noticed my iPad was covered in soot. 

Edited June 24, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[ExFlyer]

On 6/11/2023 at 11:37 AM, eyeball said:

I certainly won't stand for watching people like you degenerate us like that. You'll have a civil war to deal with too. 

There will never be a civil war, especially in Canada, over anything. We are too feeble.

Our society will rather fight over flying a pride flag than anything important enough that affects us all,  all of the time.