DeSantis on Ukraine

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, Deluge said:

Are you saying that the US should get out of this "legally binding obligation" so that we never have to go to war again? 

The NATO Charter has been ratified by the US Senate. Per the US Constitution, that makes the NATO Charter “the supreme law of the land.” I support the U.S. Constitution, and therefore, I must accept the NATO charter.
 

Article 5 of the NATO Charter obligates all members to consider an armed attack on one member as an attack on them.

In all the time NATO has been in force, Article 5 has been invoked only once: After the September 11 attacks on the United States. 
 

NATO has stated that any attack on a nuclear power plant in Ukraine which releases radiation into or over NATO member states will be considered an Article 5 condition.  

[Deluge]

26 minutes ago, Rebound said:

The NATO Charter has been ratified by the US Senate. Per the US Constitution, that makes the NATO Charter “the supreme law of the land.” I support the U.S. Constitution, and therefore, I must accept the NATO charter.
 

Article 5 of the NATO Charter obligates all members to consider an armed attack on one member as an attack on them.

In all the time NATO has been in force, Article 5 has been invoked only once: After the September 11 attacks on the United States. 
 

NATO has stated that any attack on a nuclear power plant in Ukraine which releases radiation into or over NATO member states will be considered an Article 5 condition.  

YOUR opinion, Rebound, not another word salad. 

I gave you a yes or no question:

In YOUR opinion, should the US get out of this "legally binding obligation" so that we never have to go to war again? Yes or no? 

[Rebound]

On 3/21/2023 at 12:44 PM, Deluge said:

YOUR opinion, Rebound, not another word salad. 

I gave you a yes or no question:

In YOUR opinion, should the US get out of this "legally binding obligation" so that we never have to go to war again? Yes or no? 

The premise of your question is absolutely false. America has fought many wars in our history, and none of them were a result of our membership in NATO.  Therefore, it is false to say that leaving NATO will ensure that we will never have to go to war again.  

[robosmith]

On 3/21/2023 at 7:45 AM, Deluge said:

Sorry, chump, even with Trump's faults, he still beats the shit out of your guy, and it's not even a debate. 

I'm sure you disagree, so let's take a closer look at Trump's accomplishments: 

https://www.mcleancountyrepublicans.org/trump_administration_accomplishments

Now, go get a list of Biden's accomplishments and we'll compare the two. 

Oh, and I disagree. He was being diplomatic, first. 

Of course your source of a Republican group is unassailable. LMAO

Your choice of source just shows YOUR DESPERATION.

I am WELL FAMILIAR with Trump's "accomplishments" as well as his EXTENISIVE LIST of ethical VIOLATIONS.

And KNOW that HIS CULT gives him a PASS on every one.

Since you are unfamiliar with Biden's here is a LIST from an OBJECTIVE SOURCE.

[Deluge]

21 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Of course your source of a Republican group 

Is the source I am using. the onus now falls on you to either debunk it, or walk away.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Deluge

[Deluge]

39 minutes ago, Rebound said:

The premise of your question is absolutely false. America has fought many wars in our history, and none of them were a result of our membership in NATO.  Therefore, it is false to say that leaving NATO will ensure that we will never have to go to war again.  

Answer the question. It's a yes or no. 

[robosmith]

8 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Is the source I am using. the onus now falls on you to either debunk it, or walk away.

Just shows your dishonest DESPERATION. You KNOW that source is heavily BIASED but double down on it anyway.

[Deluge]

Just now, robosmith said:

Just shows your dishonest DESPERATION. You KNOW that source is heavily BIASED but double down on it anyway.

There's no doubling down here. Which part of that source do you want to go through first? 

[Deluge]

39 minutes ago, robosmith said:

here is a LIST from an OBJECTIVE SOURCE.

uh-uh. 

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/insider-media-bias

You're a tool, robosmith. You need to ditch the liberal hivemind and lean on your OWN understanding. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Deluge

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Trending via The New York Times

Ron DeSantis Calls Putin a ‘War Criminal,’ Clarifying Earlier Comment on Ukraine.

Is that you, Wolf Blizer?

Edited March 23, 2023 by OftenWrong

[BeaverFever]

On 3/15/2023 at 4:25 AM, Perspektiv said:

Taiwan and Ukraine are territorial disputes. One is supported by the west, in that acceptable ways to call Taiwan, is to call it Taipei. The other is not.

If you read about history, you would see why both are contested plots of land.

As a result, the more control that is lost on these assets, the likelier the eventuality of war will occur.

This is a brutal invasion, but one must look at the motive behind it. This isn't a random invasion, based on Putin being bored. This was a land grab, many years in the making.

Except now DeSantis has backpedaled and said the it’s NOT “territorial dispute” after all and he’s been “mischaracterized” andPutin is a “war criminal”, that his invasion of Ukraine was “wrong” and that Putin “should be held accountable”. 
 

He’s doing the old MAGA trick of saying “everyone knows that when I said that thing, I really meant the exact opposite of what I actually said therefore anyone who claims I said what I said is a LIAR!!!”

So now you will have to backpedal and change your answer too, correct?  Go on. Do it. Flip flop for us just like your hero Ron did. 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Go on.

I stick by my opinion.

[BeaverFever]

34 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I stick by my opinion.

So you’re saying DeSantis is WRONG then. Go on. Say it. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

So you’re saying DeSantis is WRONG then.

I am saying I stick to my opinion, regarding the conflict in Ukraine.

If DeSantis has flip flopped, he has shown the same spineless ways to garner votes that got Americans angry enough to vote Trump in in the first place. 

Not sure what gave you the impression that I liked the guy, however. He is right about a lot of things but doesn't mean I would vote for him.

[OftenWrong]

I say DeSantis has caved in to the pro-war mania that is pouring out of every media outlet. People are being whipped into a murderous fury. The war machine is coming, and there is no room for an alternative view, so you'd better get on board. In other words the next president has to be all for this shit.

Kinda like you people, eh? Enjoy your war...

 

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Except now DeSantis has backpedaled and said the it’s NOT “territorial dispute” after all and he’s been “mischaracterized” andPutin is a “war criminal”, that his invasion of Ukraine was “wrong” and that Putin “should be held accountable”. 
 

He’s doing the old MAGA trick of saying “everyone knows that when I said that thing, I really meant the exact opposite of what I actually said therefore anyone who claims I said what I said is a LIAR!!!”

So now you will have to backpedal and change your answer too, correct?  Go on. Do it. Flip flop for us just like your hero Ron did. 

The only question is whether it's a territorial dispute or not, and at first it was one. What that probably means is, a local problem let them deal with it. Not our business. For the rest - no one is saying Putin is not a war criminal, no one is saying it was not wrong to invade, no one is saying he should not be held accountable.

That doesn't negate the fact that you people are also to be held accountable. I mean the United States, NATO and EU, and the UK. All who contributed to create the conditions that forced the war to be inevitable.

That means your guy's an ass...

[WestCanMan]

On 3/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, Deluge said:

uh-uh. 

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/insider-media-bias

You're a tool, robosmith. You need to ditch the liberal hivemind and lean on your OWN understanding. 

Oh snap. Reading his next post will be like drinking stupidity from a firehose. 

[BeaverFever]

14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

The only question is whether it's a territorial dispute or not, and at first it was one. What that probably means is, a local problem let them deal with it. Not our business. For the rest - no one is saying Putin is not a war criminal, no one is saying it was not wrong to invade, no one is saying he should not be held accountable.

That doesn't negate the fact that you people are also to be held accountable. I mean the United States, NATO and EU, and the UK. All who contributed to create the conditions that forced the war to be inevitable.

That means your guy's an ass...

In what way was it a territorial dispute and why is it no longer one?

 

The only thing US/NATO bear responsibility for was being too soft on Putin previously. “The rest button” and attempts at diplomacy were interpreted as weakness, as was turning a blind eye to Russia’s multi-year sustained influence campaign that groomed gullible and/or greedy western citizens to form a fifth column of Putin sympathizers in western countries b

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

In what way was it a territorial dispute and why is it no longer one?

 

The only thing US/NATO bear responsibility for was being too soft on Putin previously. “The rest button” and attempts at diplomacy were interpreted as weakness, as was turning a blind eye to Russia’s multi-year sustained influence campaign that groomed gullible and/or greedy western citizens to form a fifth column of Putin sympathizers in western countries b

Completely false, but I cannot help you.

I am not here to educate

the great unwashed

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Completely false, but I cannot help you.

I am not here to educate

the great unwashed

Nope, it’s true and as your name suggests you are rarely correct and incapable of educating.
 

Yes I am great but only occasionally unwashed. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by BeaverFever

[robosmith]

On 3/22/2023 at 11:44 AM, Deluge said:

uh-uh. 

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/insider-media-bias

You're a tool, robosmith. You need to ditch the liberal hivemind and lean on your OWN understanding. 

Surveys are an appeal to popularity FALACY. Your hivemind has BETRAYED YOU.

[Deluge]

Just now, robosmith said:

Surveys are an appeal to popularity FALACY. Your hivemind has BETRAYED YOU.

FALLACY is the cornerstone of leftism. 

[robosmith]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:03 PM, OftenWrong said:

I say DeSantis has caved in to the pro-war mania that is pouring out of every media outlet. People are being whipped into a murderous fury. The war machine is coming, and there is no room for an alternative view, so you'd better get on board. In other words the next president has to be all for this shit.

Kinda like you people, eh? Enjoy your war...

 

The ONLY ONE who is CHOOSING WAR is Putin. Mounting a DEFENSE is NEVER a CHOICE, it is a MANDATE.

Only the spineless SURRENDER.

[robosmith]

2 minutes ago, Deluge said:

FALLACY is the cornerstone of leftism. 

Stop LYING, LIAR!

[robosmith]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:12 PM, OftenWrong said:

The only question is whether it's a territorial dispute or not, and at first it was one. What that probably means is, a local problem let them deal with it. Not our business. For the rest - no one is saying Putin is not a war criminal, no one is saying it was not wrong to invade, no one is saying he should not be held accountable.

That doesn't negate the fact that you people are also to be held accountable. I mean the United States, NATO and EU, and the UK. All who contributed to create the conditions that forced the war to be inevitable.

That means your guy's an ass...

The ONLY condition which led to the war was Ukraine KICKING OUT Putin's PUPPET Yanukovych, who had his GOONS kill a hundred+ protestors.

Your response: thank you sir may I have another. LMAO