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Canadian Catholic student arrested for saying men are different from women.


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23 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Or just allowing transgender people to use whatever bathroom they’ve used throughout human history.   There have probably been transgender people since there have been humans. Why in the second decade 21st century is this suddenly an urgent problem that must be addressed with new laws and bans and tranny policing?

Because historically you didn't have public washrooms. If you had to go to the washroom in public you just crapped in the ditch or the like. When they DID have them they were more of the outhouse single person variety for most of history.

And frankly - i can't think of any parts of history where if a man was recognized in the woman's washroom where it would have been ok with the gents at the time.

Edit - side note, for huge hunks of history women weren't allowed far outside the home anyway because they were frequently 'unclean' (periods) and had other 'womanly issues', so it's not like very many of them were attending schools for much of history, and neither would the trans females)

Edited by CdnFox
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7 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

So are there any actual GIRLS at this school who have a problem with that or is it just this newly arrived boy in school who feels he needs to swoop in and save everyone from themselves whether they know it or not?

Per the boy, several girls had complained to him.

People don't openly complain, because they are petrified of the backlash.

Look at Dave Chapelle's friend Daphne Dorman, who is trans and had the "gall" to challenge the trans community. 

She was pile driven into the ground online, until she committed suicide.

Most trans people just want to be allowed to exist, but the activists behind this trans movement, have a megaphone and heavy handed lobbying power.

I used to be on a message board for the LGBTQ community, and made the mistake of saying I wouldn't date a trans woman. 

I was demanded to explain why, knowing any explanation would be seen as transphobic. 

As suspected, every explanation was picked apart, and hundreds ganged up on me, growing angrier when I stood my ground when most people would break. I refused to back down and kiss up. Sexual preferences are just that.

That was the final straw. The blistering backlash was swift and I was banned from the website.

Most people would have anxiety attacks from that level of confrontation. 

I am not surprised none of the girls complained openly.

I remember a woman complaining at a women's gym, when a trans woman went into the shower area and was staring at her showering, male genitalia and all.

She complained to the front desk, and was told that they club couldn't do a thing about it.

Most women would stop there, but she recorded the entire thing, and demanded something to be done about it.

Going out in public like this, is dangerous, as you will have your name dragged in the mud.

Or you will have your life threatened, if not worse:

https://reduxx.info/please-dont-come-for-my-kids-tiktok-creator-who-criticized-non-binary-influencer-is-threatened-by-trans-activists/

People need to speak up, and nor trans or biological women should be forced to be uncomfortable while attending school.

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14 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

But let me ask you this:  if off-campus protests are beyond schools jurisdiction how would feel about a student who say held public Nazi or KKK-rallies denouncing Jews and minorities?  Not that I’m necessarily comparing these to this student but I’m curious where you think the line is. 

Personally, I feel what a student does when not in school is none of the school's business. All that matters is what he/she does in school. 

Granted, the protest was protesting a school policy. But hey, that's freedom of speech. It's a government institution and people ought to be able to protest its policies. The trans issue is stupidly closed to discussion. A parent tried to bring up questions about trans policy at another schoolboard in Ontario and the trustees shut the meeting down and called the police to remove them because they said such questions don't allow for a 'safe' environment. That's complete bullshit.

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8 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

1. Personally, I feel what a student does when not in school is none of the school's business. All that matters is what he/she does in school.  Granted, the protest was protesting a school policy. But hey, that's freedom of speech. It's a government institution and people ought to be able to protest its policies.

2. The trans issue is stupidly closed to discussion.

3. That's complete bullshit.

1. I'm partial to this but...
2. What "trans issue" specifically is closed is my question.  Will they be accommodated ?  Of course - that's in the HR code so it's not open to discussion.  Take it to your MP.  Are elements of accommodation open for discussion ?  I would say so.. but it's difficult.
3. Its a tricky one because the core issue is not itself up for debate: respect for fellow students (sorry for the wording).  The student protesting here himself benefits from such policies and accommodations - being a Baptist in a Catholic system.

I am open to debate but the details are tricky and it's not helped by shouting.  Protest school bathrooms but the school isn't going to contravene Ontario's guidelines so what is the point of such a protest really ?

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34 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:



I am open to debate but the details are tricky and it's not helped by shouting.  Protest school bathrooms but the school isn't going to contravene Ontario's guidelines so what is the point of such a protest really ?

But in this case the school was NOT open to debate, or even discussing it with him. So all they had left to force discussion was protest.

I'm not a big fan of protest as a method of change at the best of times. I don't think it's been an effective tool for the most part with a few exceptions.  But - if it's all you got left ...

Kennedy had a saying - "if you make peaceful revolution impossible you make violent revolution inevitable".  And that would seem to apply here. Denying him the choice of having a discussion about it forced them to more extreme lengths like a protest in order ot be heard.

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On 3/18/2023 at 7:27 PM, CdnFox said:

Nobody thinks it's the jews. Sorry that's a total red herring. IF anyone hates the jews it's  the marxists and the left these days.

Nazis think it's the Jews. If you believe in the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory, but you don't think it's the Jews, then you're not a Nazi, but you're still falling victim to Nazi propaganda.

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On 3/18/2023 at 7:28 PM, Contrarian said:

I wrote this response, then I said to let it go, however, then you opened your radical mouth again, talking mob politics about conservatives, so will have to do this again. To dismantle you in public: 

Ohhh, this is going to be cringe. ?

  • Quote

    The Marxist theory proposes a democratic system in which workers control the means of production, but the countries that have attempted to implement it have all ended up being authoritarian regimes that deny basic human rights.

No shit, because those countries didn't actually try Marxism. Countries like the Soviet Union and East Germany had State Capitalism and just called it "Socialism." This is why real leftists don't consider tankies to be on the Left. Tankies are just fascists that use left-wing imagery.

  • Quote

     

    • China, despite having "Socialist" in its name, is governed by a single authoritarian party that suppresses dissent.
    • The practical results of attempts to implement socialism have often been economic stagnation, poverty, and a lack of basic freedoms.
    • Capitalist countries such as the United States have seen tremendous economic growth and the development of strong democracies that protect individual rights.
    • It's important to evaluate political systems based on their practical results, not just their theoretical ideals.
    • Defending Marxist ideology does not excuse the atrocities committed by countries that have attempted to implement it.

     

I could address each of these points one by one, but I'd just be repeating myself. Yes, China calls itself socialist. Who cares? China has State Capitalism, not Socialism. I don't care about names, I care about policy. China also calls itself a republic, but they aren't one.

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8 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Nazis think it's the Jews.

Well then i guess there's no nazis anymore because these days nobody thinks its the jews.

8 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

If you believe in the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory, but you don't think it's the Jews, then you're not a Nazi, but you're still falling victim to Nazi propaganda.

No, you're not. That's not how logic works. In fact - based on what you've said it wouldn't even be CMCT anymore.

It's like saying if you think the gov't should have some control  or regulation over industry then you must be spreading communist propaganda because communists think the people should own production.  NO - that's not how it works.

It's just SO wrong it's disappointing that i'd need to explain it.

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On 3/18/2023 at 7:30 PM, CdnFox said:

The guy got arrested - you can claim he didn't if you can find a source that says that but he did. Sorry. If you disagree with the source then it is up to YOU to prove the source is wrong

The story doesn't give his name, so I can't fact-check this. Which I'm sure was the point.

I did try to find this story, but I'm not getting any new sources, only right-wing blogs.

On 3/18/2023 at 7:30 PM, CdnFox said:

Sorry. If you disagree with the source then it is up to YOU to prove the source is wrong

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-post/

 

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5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

China has State Capitalism, not Socialism. I

NO, sorry but yet again you are incorrect.

And i think i touched on this before - apologies if i'm remembering that wrong.

China allows some individual ownership of it's industries BUT the gov't is SO heavily involved and controlling of the industries that it is far closer to socialsm than capitalism.  As you say - it's not about the name its about the reality. THe state is required to own either directly or by proxy major shares in everything and control exactly what can and cannot be produced and what can or cannot be exported or imported.

Capitalism requries a free market. in the real world nobody does pure capitalism because it would have issues, they have a slightly regulated free market to ensure a level playing field. The chinese have no free market.

SO what they've got is a socialist economy with capitalistic elements. VS something like ours which is capitalistic with socialistic elements.

But you coudln't say china had a capitalist economic model.

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6 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

The story doesn't give his name, so I can't fact-check this. Which I'm sure was the point.

I did try to find this story, but I'm not getting any new sources, only right-wing blogs.

Nobody believes you tried even for a second.

It's easy enough to find the story is true. You don't need the name. You're just desperate to try to avoid the truth,  "GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE!!! "  "here's an example.'   "UHHHHHH   UUMMMM     er ..  NOT FAIR!!! "

Right. Go have your cookie and your nap.

 

Oh - and your own link shows that that paper is not terribly bias. Right of center, not extreme or even right wing. So your claim that they're too bias to use is also in the garbage can.

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On 3/18/2023 at 7:44 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

"Through democracy"?  Can you quote Marx on this?  I do remember he wanted a "dictatorship of the proletariat", which is I suppose is subject to interpretation, unless we take that literally.

The "dictatorship of the proletariat" referred to the proles having democratic control of the workplace. Obviously, since the proles are the working-class. We can't have a literal dictatorship of 99% of the population.

"The first step in the revolution by the working class, is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class, to win the battle for democracy." - The Communist Manifesto

"Above all, it will establish a democratic constitution, and through this, the direct or indirect dominance of the proletariat." - Engels

By the way, I'm not a marxist, so I'm not saying Marx or Engels had the best ideas for how we get to Socialism. I don't think we're going to have an overnight revolution, which is what they wanted. But to say that countries like the Soviet Union tried Marx's ideas is just objectively wrong.

 

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On 3/19/2023 at 1:30 AM, Zeitgeist said:

No, that’s Gender Studies pseudoscience. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history

 

I guess "Gender Studies pseudoscience" has been around forever. ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amelio_Robles_Ávila

Quote

According to historian Gabriela Cano Ortega, Robles adopted a male identity not as a survival strategy but because of a strong desire to be a man.[8][17] Robles' male identity was accepted by family, society, and the Mexican government, and Robles lived as a man from the age of 24 until death.[8] According to a former neighbor, if anyone called Robles a woman or Doña (an honorific for women, similar to English Mrs.), he would threaten them with a pistol.[11] Robles has therefore been described by historians as transgender.[10][17][18]

I guess he took one of them WOKE gender classes back in the twenties.

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On 3/19/2023 at 1:48 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Calling Peterson a Nazi is unreasonable slander.  Equating someone with his intellect and wisdom with Nazism is ridiculous. You’re irresponsible.  

Are you seriously retarded? I said at least twice that I don't think Peterson is a nazi. I said that because he's so stupid, he is repeating a nazi conspiracy theories without realizing it. And because of that, he helped to mainstream nazism in Canada and America.

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4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm partial to this but...
2. What "trans issue" specifically is closed is my question.  Will they be accommodated ?  Of course - that's in the HR code so it's not open to discussion.  Take it to your MP.  Are elements of accommodation open for discussion ?  I would say so.. but it's difficult.

Well, to begin with, I reject the idea that because it's in the HR code it's 'settled'. If a conservative ever gets elected in Ontario they'd simply eliminate the Ontario Human Rights Commission wholesale. But second, this is a Catholic school and is thus given more leeway in what it does on issues like this.

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. Its a tricky one because the core issue is not itself up for debate: respect for fellow students

What about respect for the needs and rights of female students? That seems entirely lacking in the policy.

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am open to debate but the details are tricky and it's not helped by shouting.  Protest school bathrooms but the school isn't going to contravene Ontario's guidelines so what is the point of such a protest really ?

Without protest the issue disappears and the politicians get to ignore it. Or, like the school trustees in Ottawa, ban all discussion of it even at school board meetings.

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13 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

The "dictatorship of the proletariat" referred to the proles having democratic control of the workplace. Obviously, since the proles are the working-class. We can't have a literal dictatorship of 99% of the population.

"The first step in the revolution by the working class, is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class, to win the battle for democracy." - The Communist Manifesto

If we let the working class rule what do you imagine is going to happen to transgender rights and policies? These policies are being wielded by the elites, not the working class, who are largely opposed to them. 

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On 3/19/2023 at 9:58 AM, I am Groot said:

Repeated studies have shown that tall people get promoted more. So do handsome/beautiful people. Fat, ugly, short people have it harder. This kind of discrimination is routine. Right from kindergarten. The less attractive you are, the less people want to see you and be around you. 

Yes, we agree that discrimination happens. However, the governments of many western countries have decided that you can't discriminate (in certain situations) when it comes to certain attributes. You can still be a dick to people for a variety of reasons. But if, for examples, you're hiring people for a business, you can't discriminate based on age, race, ethnicity, gender, and so on. And even then, there are exceptions. Like you can discriminate based on age if the person is underage.

On 3/19/2023 at 9:58 AM, I am Groot said:

And by the way, if it's okay for straight white men to not want sex with men is it okay for lesbians to not want sex with men? Or are they "terfs" because they don't want to have sex with 'women' with male anatomy?

Any kind of sexual preference is fine as long as it involves consenting adults. So no, it's not transphobic if a woman only wants to date or have sex with cis women.

On 3/19/2023 at 9:58 AM, I am Groot said:

The problem is YOU don't recognize any difference between sex and gender. As far as YOU and other trans activists and supporters are concerned the words are identical.

Are you trolling? That's literally what you're doing. You're saying that men can't become women because you think gender is the same as biological sex.

Quote

You make no allowance for the fact that women-only spaces, sports, etc. are women-only because they're FEMALE only, in recognition of anatomical and biological differences.

I think you have me confused with someone else here. I never said that females or cis women shouldn't be able to discriminate. I think that should be legal as long as it's not a public space. If a cis woman has a business and only wants to hire cis women, I think that's stupid, but it should be legal.

Quote

Trans supporters are perfectly fine with the idea young girls need to change in front of naked 'women' with male bodies and erections, who stare at them.

Oh, verpiss dich. If you really cared about kids, you wouldn't want little boys changing in front of cis men with erections. This is such a fake argument. 

Quote

That Marxists want to destroy western society is not exactly a bizarre theory. Nor is it the imagination of 'far right media' that so many on the Left show contempt for Western cultural values and beliefs and want to replace them, along with the philosophy and traditions which came down through the centuries.

Now you do realize this is a nazi theory, right? "Cultural Marxism" comes from "Cultural Bolshevism." 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

I find it especially funny that you claim the Left wants to replace western values, but it's only the Right that is against things like democracy, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, equality before the law, and so on. These are the values that Western Civilization was built on. Y'all pretend the Left is against western values, then vote for fascists.

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On 3/19/2023 at 10:06 AM, I am Groot said:

The mindset of the extreme Left that tends to promote and support Socialism is not the mindset of people willing to tolerate argument or opposition. That's why even socialists who get elected and start out more relaxed, like Venezuela or Nicaragua, slip into authoritarianism.

Except, that's not what happened. The people you're referring to were openly authoritarian to begin with.

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1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

1. But second, this is a Catholic school and is thus given more leeway in what it does on issues like this.

2. What about respect for the needs and rights of female students? That seems entirely lacking in the policy.

3., ban all discussion of it even at school board meetings.

1. You're right.  That didn't occur to me.

2. I don't understand what isn't being respected.  And how does that Stack up with telling a trans kid they aren't trans?

3. Still waiting for the details on this.

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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

If we let the working class rule what do you imagine is going to happen to transgender rights and policies? These policies are being wielded by the elites, not the working class, who are largely opposed to them. 

So I know that's what right-wing media wants people to believe, but it's not true. Most people in both America and Canada are cool with trans rights. The reason right-wing media is pushing transphobia is as a distraction from economic issues. Seriously, do you think the "elites" want their taxes raised to pay for things like UBI? There's a reason why there's no mainstream left-wing media or political parties. The big money is funding right-wing politics.

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