Turtle Island: Fact Check

[West]

37 minutes ago, Aristides said:

That's it, keep politicizing it. We are all responsible for letting this go on for nearly a century. 

BTW, everyone who disagrees with you is not a "lefty". Labels are just a lazy way of blowing them off.

Keep deflecting. Lefties are responsible. 

The LPOC and NDP should be designated hate groups

Edited October 1, 2022 by West

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, West said:

Keep deflecting. Lefties are responsible. 

The LPOC and NDP should be designated hate groups

You come across as pretty hatey yourself.

No argument, just give it a label.

[West]

31 minutes ago, Aristides said:

You come across as pretty hatey yourself.

No argument, just give it a label.

For making Liberals acknowledge that they are directly responsible for decades of abuse in residential schools? 

Has nothing to do with white people. Everything to do with a doctrine of hate spouted by liberals 

[Aristides]

54 minutes ago, West said:

For making Liberals acknowledge that they are directly responsible for decades of abuse in residential schools? 

Has nothing to do with white people. Everything to do with a doctrine of hate spouted by liberals 

Mr. Denial strikes again.

[blackbird]

Past governments were responsible for the residential schools.   But todays Liberals and NDP are busy blaming Canadians today for what their forefathers did.  They should own up to it and leave the rest of us alone.  It's called blame shifting.

[West]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

Past governments were responsible for the residential schools.   But todays Liberals and NDP are busy blaming Canadians today for what their forefathers did.  They should own up to it and leave the rest of us alone.  It's called blame shifting.

They blame every white but not themselves. Except those with white guilt

[Nefarious Banana]

Many of to-day's native leaders know how to trigger the 'white man' guilt syndrome and the MSM fall all over themselves getting the newest native claim/compensation in the media.  Never questioned, never asked for proof . . . if you're native, you're right . . . 

I can wear a moccasin or a cowboy boot . . . . they both fit.  When I was a kid, I was called 'nigger' by my friends.  So what!

[Aristides]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

Past governments were responsible for the residential schools.   But todays Liberals and NDP are busy blaming Canadians today for what their forefathers did.  They should own up to it and leave the rest of us alone.  It's called blame shifting.

It isn't about placing blame, it's about acknowledging injustice. I don't feel personal responsibility but I do recognize it happened.

[herbie]

On 9/30/2022 at 7:21 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Did they generally have biases against promoting cultures that seemed primitive and harsh by comparison with their own?

Answered your own question there, didn't ya?

[blackbird]

16 minutes ago, Aristides said:

It isn't about placing blame, it's about acknowledging injustice. I don't feel personal responsibility but I do recognize it happened.

If you read the recommendations from the Truth and Reconciliation Committee report, you will find that they recommend natives be almost given the country back to them, including self-government and billions of dollars worth of everything they can think of.   This is no small demand.  The question is how far do you go in terms of following the TRC recommendations.  The problem is many red power activists are jumping on this issue to try to get as much as possible out of Canadians and the government.  The BC NDP have already passed a motion accepting the U.N.'s   UNDRIP which has put B.C. in an awkward position.  We don't know what this means or where it will take us.   There is far more to this than acknowledging injustice of residential schools.   Millions have already been paid to survivors.  How far will this go? 

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

Answered your own question there, didn't ya?

My point is that you don’t see the parallels between how they judged the world and how you do.  You’re just as biased towards your own viewpoints.  The difference is that some of us don’t pretend that we’re superior to past generations.  You will be judged and disposed of with the same puritanical fervour with which you now judge the “settlers.”   Those settlers were no worse than you.  In fact they had less and worked harder.  

Edited October 2, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

If you read the recommendations from the Truth and Reconciliation Committee report, you will find that they recommend natives be almost given the country back to them, including self-government and billions of dollars worth of everything they can think of.   This is no small demand.  The question is how far do you go in terms of following the TRC recommendations.  The problem is many red power activists are jumping on this issue to try to get as much as possible out of Canadians and the government.  The BC NDP have already passed a motion accepting the U.N.'s   UNDRIP which has put B.C. in an awkward position.  We don't know what this means or where it will take us.   There is far more to this than acknowledging injustice of residential schools.   Millions have already been paid to survivors.  How far will this go? 

The Indigenous are the most privileged segment of Canadian society: free land, free education, free healthcare, no taxation, free higher education.  There will never be enough benefits and payments to the “original peoples” who warred against each other, invaded each other’s territories, and interbred with settlers while enjoying the advances of settler cultures.  The take over of Canada by immigrants was always underway and continues.  No human or group has a monopoly on morality or justice.  People are people.  How much is owed to today’s Indigenous?  Who should pay?   It’s a disingenuous call to victimhood for political gain and everyone with a brain knows it, including and especially many Indigenous.  Injustices occurred.  How far back do we ascribe blame? Every culture I can think of can point to past injustices towards them.  It’s what people do about their circumstances that counts.  

Edited October 2, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Indigenous are the most privileged segment of Canadian society: free land, free education, free healthcare, no taxation, free higher education. 

 "Indigenous" is just another racist imperialist title, like "Aboriginal" in Australia

those who call themselves by that title are the upper class academics who live in Toronro

the Indians on the reservations, the lower classes, just call themselves Indians

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

  It’s a disingenuous call to victimhood for political gain and everyone with a brain knows it, including and especially many Indigenous. 

I had the privilege to serve alongside some true Indian warriors

like Warrant Powter in the RCR

he was an absolute super soldier

he did everything at the double time

he didn't walk anywhere, he ran

where others would jump in a truck to drive somewhere

Warrant Powter would just run there, flat out

 a happy warrior, relentlessly positive, always leading from the front, tough as nails, but friendly, good natured

he would never claim to be a victim, and he never referred to himself as "indigenous"

he said "Indian"

Edited October 2, 2022 by Dougie93

[ExFlyer]

18 hours ago, West said:

For making Liberals acknowledge that they are directly responsible for decades of abuse in residential schools? 

Has nothing to do with white people. Everything to do with a doctrine of hate spouted by liberals 

Are you insinuating that when conservatives were in power they did not participate, acknowledge, condone the residential school issue?

All parties in power were complacent with what went on at residential schools.

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Many of to-day's native leaders know how to trigger the 'white man' guilt syndrome and the MSM fall all over themselves getting the newest native claim/compensation in the media.  Never questioned, never asked for proof . . . if you're native, you're right . . . 

I can wear a moccasin or a cowboy boot . . . . they both fit.  When I was a kid, I was called 'nigger' by my friends.  So what!

You never figured out how to get money in perpetuity for that insult and demeaning phraseology. That's the difference.

[Dougie93]

10 hours ago, blackbird said:

  How far will this go? 

right up until the financial & economic crisis comes crashing down with a vengeance

then you will see the rise of revanchism, as the pendulum swings hard in the opposite direction

[Dougie93]

12 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Many of to-day's native leaders know how to trigger the 'white man' guilt syndrome and the MSM fall all over themselves getting the newest native claim/compensation in the media.

t's the same racist imperialist Victorian Missionary Impulse

which led to the Residential Schools in the first place

the "white man" continues to try to "fix" the Indians by trying to make them act like whites

the whites appointing themselves as the representatives of the Indians, from their ivory towers in Toronto

[Dougie93]

6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 You will be judged and disposed of with the same puritanical fervour with which you now judge the “settlers.”  

since that will only come in the wake of a catastrophic crisis, systemic collapse

which will incite the masses into a blind rage

I would expect the reaction will exceed mere judgment and escalate all the way to vengeance

[West]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Are you insinuating that when conservatives were in power they did not participate, acknowledge, condone the residential school issue?

All parties in power were complacent with what went on at residential schools.

No I'm saying learn your history and learn that Liberals have been the dominant political party in power. 

Today's conservatives were formed in 2003.. not sure how they had anything to do with residential schools...

[ExFlyer]

26 minutes ago, West said:

No I'm saying learn your history and learn that Liberals have been the dominant political party in power. 

Today's conservatives were formed in 2003.. not sure how they had anything to do with residential schools...

History? Historically, all politicians, regardless of party are responsible for this continued issue.

Today's conservatives?? LOL 

A conservative is a conservative and was a conservative even in the past and into the future. Just as a liberal is a liberal, past, present and future.

Point is, both are culpable irrespective of the point in time..

[Nefarious Banana]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

You never figured out how to get money in perpetuity for that insult and demeaning phraseology. That's the difference.

Don't make assumptions. The native side of our family never considered themselves as victims. Never thought that they were owed anything, Took pride in being self sufficient. 

Skin thickness trumps skin color . . . every time.

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Don't make assumptions. The native side of our family never considered themselves as victims. Never thought that they were owed anything, Took pride in being self sufficient. 

Skin thickness trumps skin color . . . every time.

if you go down Indian Line south of Brantford

it really is a self sufficient nation unto itself

largely financed  by contraband tobacco sales

they have their own government, their own police

the rule of Canadian law barely penetrates into this cantonment

they mostly want Canada to stay out of their business

and the Canadian police are not willing to go in there and pick a fight with the Iroquois Warriors

because all heck will break loose, from Kanawake to Caledonia

Edited October 2, 2022 by Dougie93

[ExFlyer]

42 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Don't make assumptions. The native side of our family never considered themselves as victims. Never thought that they were owed anything, Took pride in being self sufficient. 

Skin thickness trumps skin color . . . every time.

Sorry ,maybe I did not express myself properly.

You said "I was a kid, I was called 'nigger' by my friends.  So what!"

My intent was that you did not try and get money for being called names or whatever else. You just said "so what" whereas most of our natives are in it for the money, at every opportunity.

[West]

53 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

History? Historically, all politicians, regardless of party are responsible for this continued issue.

Today's conservatives?? LOL 

A conservative is a conservative and was a conservative even in the past and into the future. Just as a liberal is a liberal, past, present and future.

Point is, both are culpable irrespective of the point in time..

Nonsense. The Conservative party of Canada was formed in 2003. By the time they formed power no residential schools existed. 

Federally the NDP have never formed power but are responsible at a individual level. 

Outside of voting every 4 years the average person has no say in policy. Just look at the barbaric covid restrictions.. I am not responsible for those as they were never on the ballot and wouldn't vote for such vile policy