SHOCKER - Poilievre goes super-WOKE !

[Zeitgeist]

12 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

as soon as the Conservatives are in office, they will adopt all the Liberal policies

there is only one political class in Canada

and they are all funded by the same entrenched interests

I’d say that the big bad move of the Liberals was declaring any real opposition to be racist, misogynist, unacceptable, and by extension unemployable and even criminal.  The message became, fall in line with the mandates, overreach, and a set of values that may be counter to your own and even your constitutional rights.  In Canada you have to publicly express shame over your country, act as though fringe lifestyles are normal, treat gender as though it’s got little to do with biology, and give preferential treatment to certain races and groups that the state defines as victims.

But even if we all pretend to think that all of the above is good and just, to me and many the most horrifying part of the pandemic “health measures” that our government championed was seeing family holidays and freedom of movement, assembly, and religion declared non-essential and banned.  The elderly were shut up in homes and sometimes abandoned without visitors in the name of safety.  People’s judgement and rights weren’t respected and this was all in the name of public health, yet the high costs of these privations are still with us.

People who saw the danger to our basic humanity and tried to push back had martial law declared against them. I could talk about other dubious or even bad values, like euthanasia for the mentally ill and late term abortion. Trudeau is a hypocrite.  He calls himself Catholic yet he essentially banned people who aren’t pro choice from getting federal jobs.  That’s ideologically intrusive on the level of Stalin.

I don’t respect this oppressive government.  The main reasons I want the Conservatives to win are to ensure that people are free to follow their conscience, say what they think, have their own spaces and families, and pursue their interests without interference from the state.

I understand and accept that some people genuinely believe in the Marxist-nihilist woke cancel culture and subversion of biological reality, norms, religion, etc., but don’t try to make people publicly agree with those ideas and lifestyles when they don’t like or believe in them. Defending free speech means defending it for both ends of the political spectrum.  And don’t mess with constitutional rights!  Poilievre must bolster and safeguard our rights.  We don’t even have protection of property in Canada.  That must change.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

29 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Thats easy Eyeball, we are going to use them to round all the left up put them on leaky ships and send them Russia, there they will be put in reeducation camps, where they will tickle you to tears, tell you stories that will make you laugh and laugh or maybe send you to the Ukraine front.

It's going to be fun, bring your friends they love the left over there.

Ah another disavowing back-peddler trying to put some distance between the last couple years of deranged narrative and one more suitable for the cuckheld middle. How's that working out for you guys anyway?  I bet it chafes.

Looks like Betsy's already decided to pack it in.

[Army Guy]

34 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Ah another disavowing back-peddler trying to put some distance between the last couple years of deranged narrative and one more suitable for the cuckheld middle. How's that working out for you guys anyway?  I bet it chafes.

Looks like Betsy's already decided to pack it in.

It is working great, we all know the Nazi thing is all bullshit, so why put in any effort to dispatch it. I think PP is for the most part is the Conservatives last hope to gain power, and if it does not work out not sure what happens next. Not sure the nation is going to be ready for another 4 more years...  

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

It is working great, we all know the Nazi thing is all bullshit, so why put in any effort to dispatch it.

Bullshit its all bullshit. More twaddle has been seriously expended about the threat of totalitarianism these last couple years then there was about Islam following 9/11. 

The reason for dispatching the twaddle should be obvious.

Quote

I think PP is for the most part is the Conservatives last hope to gain power, and if it does not work out not sure what happens next. Not sure the nation is going to be ready for another 4 more years...  

You guys are really starting to sound desperate.  Political desperation is just another step towards political violence.

If PP is serious about attracting serious voters he should start dispatching the totalitarian hooey so many of his followers engage in spreading.

[Dougie93]

9 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

So you advocate killing gay people and their families….  Good to know who we’re discussing issues of the day with on this forum.  
 

The pretend military guys on the internet are always the nuttiest of the bunch, aren’t they?

I simply extrapolate from the historical record, the trajectory that society is currently set upon

the elites dividing the conquering the population

inventing constituencies that don't exist

pitting people against each other in order to stave off a revolt

because the financial & economic system is on the verge of collapse

LGBTQ++ is not gay people, it's a fake constituency invented by the elites,

lumping millions of people into a single category

the elites are setting the conditions for a catastrophe

and inventing categories of people who will be scapegoated for it

it happens the same way, over & over

from Weimar Germany to Yugoslavia, Cambodia to Rwanda, etc, etc

Germany was once the safe haven for the Jews fleeing the Russian pogroms

Jews fought for the Kaiser as their protector

but when the empire collapsed into ruin

millions of people were categorized into a single constituency as scapegoats

"the Jewish  Bolshevik Conspiracy" Adolf Hitler called it

this is how the Holocaust happened

if you are gay, you are given no choice, you are lumped into this false "LGBTQ++" category

the elites claim to be the protectors of this supposed category of people

but when the empire collapses into ruin, the elites will turn on them, as scapegoats

it is a divide & conquer strategy

in such a paradigm,

the elites switch sides whenever it becomes necessary to prop themselves up

Benito Mussolini, the father of modern Fascism : was a Socialist

until Italy collapsed into ruin

then he switched sides to the far right, and became an instrument of the elites he once opposed

I don't advocate for Fascism

I simply point out in stark terms,

that the conditions are being set by the elites. for its inevitable rise to power once again

quite sure the Fascists would shoot me in the back of the head as well

but I'm too old to die young, so I don't worry about it

if I was young & gay however, I would be quite concerned

that I was being involuntarily lumped into this category by the nefarious governments & corporations

separated from the rest of society falsely

as a potential scapegoat, when the entire system collapsed into ruin

if gay people can't understand that the governments & corporations might turn on them

suddenly change direction and start to target gay people as "the other"

then they must have very short memories

Weimar Germany was the most progressive nation on earth in the 1920's

until the economy collapsed,  and it became Nazi Germany practically overnight

as I say, when there is a total financial & ecoomic collapse

the rage comes like a firestorm

then the governments & corporations start looking for categories of people to shift the blame to

the historical record indicates that the mostly likely targets will be :

leftists, progressives, intellectuals, homosexuals, immigrants & Jews

history is not linear, it's circular, it goes on a cycle,

everything that happened before comes back round again

Edited September 17, 2022 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’d say that the big bad move of the Liberals was declaring any real opposition to be racist, misogynist, unacceptable, and by extension unemployable and even criminal. 

again, it's all about the pending financial & economic collapse

not just in Canada, a global financial & economic collapse

the Liberal elites are simply engaged in the divide & conquer strategy to stave off a revolt

same as the elites are in every other Western country, led down this path by the American Hegemon

Ottawa is relatively tame compared to Quebec

Quebec is going nakedly fascist now

the CAQ government literally persecuting Anglos & Immigrants to try to stave off a revolt

the sh*t is hitting the fan, and the elites are starting to panic

the elite strategy of simply printing money and flooding it into the economy

is backfiring now, the inflationary debt crisis has arrived with a vengeance

without money printing as a lever of control

the elites are falling back on fascism and associated scapegoating to prop themselves up

Edited September 17, 2022 by Dougie93

[betsy]

On 9/15/2022 at 3:09 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1) It's between me and Betsy

 

 

This isn't the first time you claimed being a Christian....because you said, you like and you follow the philosophy of Christ.  I remember you saying that way back - in fact I've used your claim in some arguments in other forums, as an example of muddled thinking.

Why muddled thinking, you ask.  Let me run this by you:

For a new atheist like you, who mocks the existence of God - how can you even say you like the philosophy of Christ?   YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HIS MESSAGE!   Obviously, you don't know His philosophy!

 

The philosophy of Christ is centered on just these alone:

 

GLORY TO GOD

GLORY FOR GOD

GLORY WITH GOD.

 

It is centered on the most important commandment of all - “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.”

 

Therefore - without believing in God - how can you even imagine following or liking the philosophy of Christ?  How can you even listen to someone whom you think is either a looney tune, or a scam artist?

 

You like philosophy?   here's a good one for you:  Just because your lips are flapping, doesn't mean you're saying anything. ?

Edited September 17, 2022 by betsy

[betsy]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

You guys are really starting to sound desperate.  Political desperation is just another step towards political violence.

 

 

Don't you get it?   This is desperation for all of us.....no matter what stripes.  Look at how politicians are getting all sorts of threats, all the different kinds of violence around us!    This isn't like it used to be anymore.

 

GET THIS:  THERE IS NO COHESION AMONG US.  NO UNITY. 

Divide and conquer.  TRUDEAU had succeeded in sowing and nurturing DIVISION.  We are starting to reap the fruit of it.

On top of that - he's triggered the looney tunes!

 

We are moving fast towards  unchartered territories.

Edited September 17, 2022 by betsy

[betsy]

On 9/15/2022 at 11:32 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Nonsense.  I am Christian by the book.

Lol - did you see the title of the book you claim?

You sure it's not about Buddhism.........................or the book of proverbs of Indonesia? ?

Go check it out. For all you know  you might change  your tune  and start claiming to be an Indonesian or Buddhist instead! ?

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by betsy

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

again, it's all about the pending financial & economic collapse

not just in Canada, a global financial & economic collapse

the Liberal elites are simply engaged in the divide & conquer strategy to stave off a revolt

same as the elites are in every other Western country, led down this path by the American Hegemon

Ottawa is relatively tame compared to Quebec

Quebec is going nakedly fascist now

the CAQ government literally persecuting Anglos & Immigrants to try to stave off a revolt

the sh*t is hitting the fan, and the elites are starting to panic

the elite strategy of simply printing money and flooding it into the economy

is backfiring now, the inflationary debt crisis has arrived with a vengeance

without money printing as a lever of control

the elites are falling back on fascism and associated scapegoating to prop themselves up

But even if we don’t get economic collapse, the culture war remains.  I meant what I said when I suggested that we may have to have two different education systems, as the Catholic versus public dichotomy that’s constitutionally protected doesn’t mean much when even the “religious” education essentially espouses Marxism and nihilism, putting race at the heart of what matters about people, creating a cancer culture where kids are turned into spineless jellyfish who are triggered by their own shadows, and teaching people to hate their country because the past didn’t reflect the values of the present.

 I want my kids attending schools where they are still called boys and girls, where sexual orientation and identity aren’t advertised on flags, where racial identity isn’t what matters most about people and isn’t what determines if someone is good or bad, deserving or underserving, where people can speak their minds without fear of reprisal or cancellation, and where constitutional freedoms are celebrated rather than dismissed.  I’m not sure that’s even a religious education, but people should be able to express their religious beliefs, views for or against climate change policies, etc.

Don’t get me wrong, people can and should be able to share their woke beliefs too.  That’s the whole point.  Free and active debate is essential to liberal-democracy.

If people want to set up woke schools where only certain views that some ideologues define as acceptable are allowed, kids are told that gender is a social construct, white people are oppressors, Canada is bad or worse than most countries because of “colonialism”, and people who question such narratives are retrograde and unacceptable, well I don’t want anything to do with such organizations.  I don’t want to work or learn or live in such an atmosphere.  There is little here resembling Charter rights, meritocracy, science, or values.

That’s the divide now.  People are so fed up with pretending to believe what they don’t in order to be acceptable in their jobs, as parents, and as citizens, that they’re going to push back, at least those people will who have the strength or opportunity to do so.  That’s likely inevitable no matter how much better or worse the economy is reported to be performing.

Yet economic hardship, if it gets much worse and more widespread, will only hasten and accentuate the cultural divide, and since the woke are the overreacting authorities and elites in this battle, yes they will feel much political pushback, and rightly so.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

29 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

But even if we don’t get economic collapse, the culture war remains.

it doesn't just remain, as I said above, families get dragged out of their homes and shot

like Yugoslavia in the 90's

that was an economic collapse

the Soviets collapsed, dragging Yugoslavia down in the process

then the Yugoslav culture war escalated into genocidal mass murder

this is what happens when the system collapses while the elites are pitting the population against itself

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, betsy said:

 

You like philosophy?   here's a good one for you:  Just because your lips are flapping, doesn't mean you're saying anything. 

?

You get it.

[RollingtheBall]

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I understand and accept that some people genuinely believe in the Marxist-nihilist woke cancel culture and subversion of biological reality, norms, religion, etc., but don’t try to make people publicly agree with those ideas and lifestyles when they don’t like or believe in them. Defending free speech means defending it for both ends of the political spectrum.  And don’t mess with constitutional rights!  Poilievre must bolster and safeguard our rights.  We don’t even have protection of property in Canada.  That must change.  

I fully agree with you, defending free speech means defending it from both ends of the spectrum.  For the last seven years it has seemed, to me anyway, that my rights as a Conservative Christian have been attacked.  For one example, think back to the summer of 2019 when the Trudeau govt. denied summer job grants for students who might chose to work with any organization that didn't agree with their liberal policies. Church organizations responded, holding that they were being forced to either choose between their religious convictions or the money that helped to run summer camps and programs which had nothing to do with abortion etc.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s the divide now.  People are so fed up with pretending to believe what they don’t in order to be acceptable in their jobs, as parents, and as citizens, that they’re going to push back, at least those people will who have the strength or opportunity to do so.  That’s likely inevitable no matter how much better or worse the economy is reported to be performing.

Yet economic hardship, if it gets much worse and more widespread, will only hasten and accentuate the cultural divide, and since the woke are the overreacting authorities and elites in this battle, yes they will feel much political pushback, and rightly so.

I don't think you are quite grasping the scale

two hundred trillion in global debt for only fifty trillion in productivity

that's not a poorly performing economy

that is the Weimar Republic on an exponentially greater scale

we're not talking about a recession

we're talking about a global hegemonic collapse

on the scale of the Great Depression & Second World War combined

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Canada is bad or worse than most countries

Canada is really just a passenger

this is happening everywhere at once

America, Britain, Europe, Japan & China

the largest economies in the world are teetering on the brink of total collapse

hyperinflation to war of hegemonic succession

 

[Zeitgeist]

26 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I don't think you are quite grasping the scale

two hundred trillion in global debt for only fifty trillion in productivity

that's not a poorly performing economy

that is the Weimar Republic on an exponentially greater scale

we're not talking about a recession

we're talking about a global hegemonic collapse

on the scale of the Great Depression & Second World War combined

You may be right and time will tell.  The only thing I’d say to counter that outcome is that the Breton Woods monetary system is somewhat fake to begin with.  The dollars and money printing can go on indefinitely.  The issue is that our currencies and prices (buying power and level of inflation) are somewhat at the mercy of people’s psychology (Do I think this home is worth $2 million instead of $200000?  Should I invest because things will go up in value or sell or stay put because there’s no clear path to recovery ahead?) and the central bank can literally squeeze people financially with interest rates until they can’t afford to invest or buy.

The latter is the brutal reality that the vast majority face.  They don’t have savings or own assets.   They have mortgages and debts because of the overpriced homes and cars they use.  Those people are starting to scream and the Fed/BoC isn’t letting up yet because they don’t have evidence of price moderation yet.  Basically almost everyone is taking a haircut.  Only the debt-free benefit now.  Only those with savings will make money on interest rates or be in a position to take advantage of price reductions.

Sadly the rich are the ones best positioned to take advantage of a recession.   However, if inflation continues no matter how high rates go (unlikely), that’s Weimar disaster.  If the opposite happens and prices collapse and continue to fall or remain low (deflation), that’s a long bloodletting because people are sitting on debts greater than the value of the homes that they own and there are few buyers or investors because no one thinks the prices will increase.  I think that the latter scenario is more likely and may need to happen for a while until people pay down more debt and prices drop.

However, it can’t go on.  We need moderate growth and mild inflation.   Without it our whole sense of getting wealthier and hard work paying off gets lost.   That’s the downgraded existence many people fear but that some radical climate activists want.  Reduce people to subsistence and local lives in small apartments, perhaps even willfully through UBI.  It’s the Soviet Union with Greta as saviour instead of Lenin.

It could get scarier though given our surveillance, increasingly digital economy, and the possibilities of ESG social credit controls.  People scoff at these possibilities, yet they are reality in China and we all experienced having our freedoms stripped to fight a crisis during the pandemic.  Yes we have reasons to worry, which is why I’m all about safeguarding freedom and opportunity. The Liberals curtailed both and seem very beholden to global initiatives.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You may be right and time will tell.

I just do the math and calculate the scale

it's unprecedented

this is an epoch

the last epoch on this scale was not 1981

it was 1914

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I just do the math and calculate the scale

it's unprecedented

this is an epoch

the last epoch on this scale was not 1981

it was 1914

Yes but also look at what we experienced with lockdowns, restrictions and mandates.  I still can’t believe that happened for two years and we’re dealing with the fallout.

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

However, it can’t go on. 

again, the closest historical analogy is 1914

the end of the long peace in the wake of Waterloo

the last time Globalism collapsed

when the British global hegemon collapsed into a total war of annihilation

nobody thought it was even possible

they all charged into the trenches with glee

thinking that the hegemonic succession would be over by Christmas

instead, it didn't end until 1989

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes but also look at what we experienced with lockdowns, restrictions and mandates.

that was just a test

the elites were testing how far they can go right now, what they could get away with

they didn't have to use the concentration camp in North Battleford, Saskatchewan

but they had it standing by, ready to accept prisoners

and Canada has gone there before

the unemployed were marched off into camps in the Great Depression

the Japanese were marched into internment in the Second World War

 

[Dougie93]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Sadly the rich are the ones best positioned to take advantage of a recession.   However, if inflation continues no matter how high rates go (unlikely), that’s Weimar disaster.  If the opposite happens and prices collapse and continue to fall or remain low (deflation), that’s a long bloodletting because people are sitting on debts greater than the value of the homes that they own and there are few buyers or investors because no one thinks the prices will increase.  I think that the latter scenario is more likely and may need to happen for a while until people pay down more debt and prices drop.

they can't contain inflation without raising interest rates to intolerable levels

intolerable because of the debt

if they try to do what was done in 1981

that will incite cascading defaults

not just for individuals & corporations

sovereign defaults

governments will become insolvent

so they're not going there willingly

thus the trajectory is towards what is called a "melt up" rather than a meltdown

first the inflation burns completely out of control

because they know that if they stop printing money, the entire system will collapse

eventually however, there is a disorderly deleveraging, imposed by market forces suddenly unleashed

then you go into the deflationary spiral down into a depression

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

that was just a test

the elites were testing how far they can go right now, what they could get away with

they didn't have to use the concentration camp in North Battleford, Saskatchewan

but they had it standing by, ready to accept prisoners

and Canada has gone there before

the unemployed were marched off into camps in the Great Depression

the Japanese were marched into internment in the Second World War

 

Very true.  It’s frightening how little Canadians seem to understand about what’s transpired these last two and a half years, the implications of the use of the Emergencies Act, the fines, the forced job losses due to mandates, the freezing of bank accounts, the trouncing of constitutional rights.  Most people generally do and say what they’re told to do and say because they have bills to pay and they have trusted governments to govern in their interests.  I’m not sure that social contract is respected anymore.  We got a glimpse of what our government is capable of and their persistence in oppressive projects like ArriveCAN, border restrictions, and carbon taxes (during high inflation).  It’s already a degraded democracy in need of serious restoration.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Very true.  It’s frightening how little Canadians seem to understand

well, take for example Pierre Poilievre promising to "restore sound money in Canada"

clearly he knows that Canadians are financially illiterate on this subject

because that would require him to switch from QE to QT

and peg the Canadian dollar to gold

that would incite a catastrophe on the spot

he's basically promising to incite the depression right away

the Conservatives are playing the same game as the Liberals

"Sunny Ways"

Edited September 17, 2022 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 It’s already a degraded democracy in need of serious restoration.  

the entire economy is a massive debt bubble

money is not even currency anymore

money is just credit now

they can't stop the runaway inflation without crashing the entire financial & economic system through the floor

in this situation, they cannot allow for democracy

they are way too deep into this now,

they have to rule with an iron fist, to keep the debt based economy propped up

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

well, take for example Pierre Poilievre promising to "restore sound money in Canada"

clearly he know that Canadians are financially illiterate on this subject

because that would require him to switch from QE to QT

and peg the Canadians dollar to gold

that would incite a catastrophe on the spot

he's basically promising to incite the depression right away

Well the smart move would be to unlock resources and energy supply, create a national reserve (Norwegian style pension trust fund for all citizens and bank of energy for domestic use), build pipelines for domestic use and energy exports, deregulate housing development along with resource development, scrap carbon taxes, get out of UNDRIP and climate agreements, ban government involvement in the WEF and other private jet gatherings of international elites, and add rights to the Charter, including on property and privacy protection. I’d love to see all attempts by our government to control internet speech ended, as well as a reduction of regulation by CRTC, that kind of thing.

We don’t have to peg the dollar to gold, but building reserves of precious metals over time is probably wise in case fiat currency can’t be backstopped through Libor currency swaps. This is over the heads of most people. Basically, increase freedom and opportunity is the message.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Zeitgeist