Omicron variant in Canada.

[Zeitgeist]

So it looks like our government may go along with Dr. Tam’s idea that restricting Canadians from travelling, even vaccinated ones, is a good idea.  Okay, it’s time to stop and question this.  Most of our vulnerable population are fully vaccinated and the Omicron variant has milder symptoms than Delta.  Those who don’t feel safe travelling can make the choice to stay home.  Imposing additional restrictions on Canadian travellers is diabolical. They already have to show proof of vaccination AND negative test results upon entry to Canada using the ArriveCAN app that’s a total pain in the ass.  Americans laugh at how our government hassles its own citizens. When I crossed into the US they asked for nothing but a passport.

I think we need to start examining the international source of oppressive directives.  I think it’s Beijing.  In any event, our government needs to stop punishing its people for trying to have normal lives   You pushed us to get vaccinated under threat of unemployment.  Now almost all of us are vaxxed.  You make us show vaccine passports to enjoy basic freedoms like eating in a restaurant.  You continue to make us wear masks indoors, even if we’re vaccinated.  Now you want to make Canadians take two sets of tests on return to Canada, one before arrival and one after?  Oh and retuning travellers will be forced to quarantine.  People who already made travel plans are screwed.  They won’t get paid for missed work and they could lose their jobs.  Thanks Trudeau for ruining the holidays. Fascists.  Canada is losing freedom. Canadians are losing control of their destiny.

https://apple.news/AJfe-ot2bQb-rN9ZvBmNIQg

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[CITIZEN_2015]

7 hours ago, Shady said:

It's actually preferable if the new variant became the dominant strain.  It's 30% less severe than delta.  

I am really surprised people making such uncalculated comments. I mean even if it is as you claimed 30% less severe but it is 4 times more transmissible which means 2.6 (4X (1 - 0.3)) time more people in hospitals with severe symptoms and 2.8 times more deaths.

[CITIZEN_2015]

33 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

So it looks like our government may go along with Dr. Tam’s idea that restricting Canadians from travelling, even vaccinated ones, is a good idea.  Okay, it’s time to stop and question this.  Most of our vulnerable population are fully vaccinated and the Omicron variant has milder symptoms than Delta.  Those who don’t feel safe travelling can make the choice to stay home.

 

Restricting travelling is not enough what is needed to avoid disaster is a total ban on travelling. It is too late now. They should have done this 20 days ago. Omicron in here now for almost 3 weeks brought in by travelers. So making the choice to stay home solves no issue because you travelers brought in the highly transmissible virus and we will be dying from it staying home or not. Even if it is 3% less severe but it is 4 times more transmissible which means it is 2.8 times almost 3 times deadlier than previous waves all because of travelers.

 

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Restricting travelling is not enough what is needed to avoid disaster is a total ban on travelling. It is too late now. They should have done this 20 days ago. Omicron in here now for almost 3 weeks brought in by travelers. So making the choice to stay home solves no issue because you travelers brought in the highly transmissible virus and we will be dying from it staying home or not. Even if it is 3% less severe but it is 4 times more transmissible which means it is 2.8 times almost 3 times deadlier than previous waves all because of travelers.

 

What the hell are you talking about?   How is a fully vaccinated traveller who gets a negative test result less safe than another Canadian non-traveller coming through your neighborhood?  You and people with your totalitarian mentality are ruining this country.  Go get your third dose and hide in your basement.  Forms of Covid — Delta, Omicron, or some other variant — can come from anywhere.  We’re probably better off having Omicron become the dominant variant instead of Delta. You’re so manipulated and naïve.  

Edited December 15, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

21 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am really surprised people making such uncalculated comments. I mean even if it is as you claimed 30% less severe but it is 4 times more transmissible which means 2.6 (4X (1 - 0.3)) time more people in hospitals with severe symptoms and 2.8 times more deaths.

Yet the Covid death rate remains low.  One Omicron death so far.  So much hype.  I know how much you love restrictions and living in fear.  Time to move on.  

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

What the hell are you talking about?   How is a fully vaccinated traveller who gets a negative test result less safe than another Canadian non-traveller coming through your neighborhood?  You and people with your totalitarian mentality are ruining this country.  Go get your third dose and hide in your basement.  Forms of Covid — Delta, Omicron, or some other variant — can come from anywhere.  We’re probably better off having Omicron become the dominant variant instead of Delta. You’re so manipulated and naïve.  

He is only following advice and comments from Mr. Trudeau, Doctor Tam, and the wonderful Doctor Moore whose mantra we will apparently hear tomorrow. More changes are necessary, because covid.

Pray for death

 

[myata]

Maybe this country, as a free country is done for, or close to? For all the freedom talk, the reality has a very good and quick mirror of what the talk is worth. Roman republic lasted six hundred years and British democracy going on eight but that's Rome and Magna Carta not some colonial backwaters presuming itself to get all the hard earned merits just by writing them on the banner.

[Yzermandius19]

44 minutes ago, myata said:

Maybe this country, as a free country is done for, or close to?

that ship sailed long ago

we beat the commies in the cold war

but now the commies run the joint and are thoroughly entrenched

that's a pretty lame "victory"

Edited December 15, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[CITIZEN_2015]

11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What the hell are you talking about?   How is a fully vaccinated traveller who gets a negative test result less safe than another Canadian non-traveller coming through your neighborhood?  

All those damn travelers who brought in the damn variant also tested negative before allowed entry.

[myata]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

All those damn travelers who brought

For those who may have hoped for an easy exit out of this funnel of closemindedness and fear stoked by incessant propaganda, maybe you should reconsider. The history shows that it's much easier to let the genie out than put it back in the bottle. We may not see a return to (normal) normal for a while yet.

[CITIZEN_2015]

48 minutes ago, myata said:

. We may not see a return to (normal) normal for a while yet.

I am fed up with this damn virus and you are not encouraging.

I tell you what needs to be done. The government must stop backing the giant rich pharmaceutical companies and remove vaccine patents immediately and put their bosses on trail for mass crime against humanity if they refuse and forced them to transfer vaccine technology to third world countries so that the whole world can be immunized in a few months.

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

All those damn travelers who brought in the damn variant also tested negative before allowed entry.

didn't make any difference

Omicron got here long before they did

[CITIZEN_2015]

48 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

didn't make any difference

Omicron got here long before they did

How? The virus grew wings and flew over the ocean into Canada? It was brought in by travelers. I posted in February 2021 asking the Federal government to close the damn borders completely.

[myata]

Look at this: Covid cases, Sweden. There's been no crying and jumping, folks!!!, hands in the air and pants on fire. Restaurants did not close. You can fly to nearby countries, and some airlines did not even require masks. What if, just to think of it, life is possible - only it's not a given, but a choice?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

How? The virus grew wings and flew over the ocean into Canada? It was brought in by travelers. I posted in February 2021 asking the Federal government to close the damn borders completely.

Who cares?  People don’t want to live in a world where the borders are closed after the population has already been extorted into taking needles, wearing masks, and staying home.  If you don’t want freedom because your fully-vaccinated, masked self can’t handle the possibility that someone in your neighborhood might have “Omicron”, don’t make everyone else suffer to feed your neurosis.  

[Shady]

18 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am really surprised people making such uncalculated comments. I mean even if it is as you claimed 30% less severe but it is 4 times more transmissible which means 2.6 (4X (1 - 0.3)) time more people in hospitals with severe symptoms and 2.8 times more deaths.

That’s completely incorrect.  You’re not taking into account 85% fully vaccinated.

[Shady]

18 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Restricting travelling is not enough what is needed to avoid disaster is a total ban on travelling. It is too late now. They should have done this 20 days ago. Omicron in here now for almost 3 weeks brought in by travelers. So making the choice to stay home solves no issue because you travelers brought in the highly transmissible virus and we will be dying from it staying home or not. Even if it is 3% less severe but it is 4 times more transmissible which means it is 2.8 times almost 3 times deadlier than previous waves all because of travelers.

 

Your math is incoherent.  Something 30% less severe isn’t more deadly.  Almost 100+% of the vulnerable population is fully vaccinated.  Non vulnerable people are not going to die from a mild form of covid.  I feel sorry for people that are so illogically frightened like you.

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am really surprised people making such uncalculated comments. I mean even if it is as you claimed 30% less severe but it is 4 times more transmissible which means 2.6 (4X (1 - 0.3)) time more people in hospitals with severe symptoms and 2.8 times more deaths.

How do they come by the standard of 30% less severe?

If it actually means 30% weaker then your straight-line math doesn't work here. 

Just imagine if you gave 100 regularly drinking males 3 drinks each, in 1 hour during/after dinner, and when you performed that exact same experiment 1,000 times, you found that on average about 15 of them would be drunk.

If you gave 400 regularly drinking males 2 drinks each, in 1 hour during/after dinner, would you expect there to be [.7 x 4 = 2.8 times as many] 42 people drunk? Not at all.  There might be 20, 15, 1, or maybe even 0.

 

The point is that there's a threshold that you need to cross to push people over the line and that's exactly how covid works.

 

The analogy that I give is that if you're walking on the edge of your grave, covid gives you a nudge. Healthy people aren't picked up and carried to their graves like they would be with Ebola or something like that. 

Here's the deal: almost 66% of the people who died in Canada were among the 4% of us who are over 80 years old (18,239 deaths). 

There were less than 800 deaths among the ~23,000,000 Canadians under 50. That's 2.7% of the deaths in 60% of the population. 

Another way of looking at it is 23 times as many deaths in 1/14th the number of people. The correlation is in granite. 

 

If covid pushes with 30% less force it's not likely to push many people into their graves at all. Even with the original, stronger versions of covid, 94% of the Americans who died needed to have other co-morbidities in order for covid to be able to finish them. Take away 30% of the severity, what's left? People on palliative plus a handful of really unlucky outliers? 

[OftenWrong]

35 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

How do they come by the standard of 30% less severe?

If it actually means 30% weaker then your straight-line math doesn't work here. 

Just imagine if you gave 100 regularly drinking males 3 drinks each, in 1 hour during/after dinner, and when you performed that exact same experiment 1,000 times, you found that on average about 15 of them would be drunk.

If you gave 400 regularly drinking males 2 drinks each, in 1 hour during/after dinner, would you expect there to be [.7 x 4 = 2.8 times as many] 42 people drunk? Not at all.  There might be 20, 15, 1, or maybe even 0.

 

The point is that there's a threshold that you need to cross to push people over the line and that's exactly how covid works.

 

The analogy that I give is that if you're walking on the edge of your grave, covid gives you a nudge. Healthy people aren't picked up and carried to their graves like they would be with Ebola or something like that. 

Here's the deal: almost 66% of the people who died in Canada were among the 4% of us who are over 80 years old (18,239 deaths). 

There were less than 800 deaths among the ~23,000,000 Canadians under 50. That's 2.7% of the deaths in 60% of the population. 

Another way of looking at it is 23 times as many deaths in 1/14th the number of people. The correlation is in granite. 

 

If covid pushes with 30% less force it's not likely to push many people into their graves at all. Even with the original, stronger versions of covid, 94% of the Americans who died needed to have other co-morbidities in order for covid to be able to finish them. Take away 30% of the severity, what's left? People on palliative plus a handful of really unlucky outliers? 

Interesting analogy. I'll have to try that drinking experiment...

[Faramir]

43 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

How do they come by the standard of 30% less severe?

If it actually means 30% weaker then your straight-line math doesn't work here. 

Just imagine if you gave 100 regularly drinking males 3 drinks each, in 1 hour during/after dinner, and when you performed that exact same experiment 1,000 times, you found that on average about 15 of them would be drunk.

If you gave 400 regularly drinking males 2 drinks each, in 1 hour during/after dinner, would you expect there to be [.7 x 4 = 2.8 times as many] 42 people drunk? Not at all.  There might be 20, 15, 1, or maybe even 0.

 

The point is that there's a threshold that you need to cross to push people over the line and that's exactly how covid works.

 

The analogy that I give is that if you're walking on the edge of your grave, covid gives you a nudge. Healthy people aren't picked up and carried to their graves like they would be with Ebola or something like that. 

Here's the deal: almost 66% of the people who died in Canada were among the 4% of us who are over 80 years old (18,239 deaths). 

There were less than 800 deaths among the ~23,000,000 Canadians under 50. That's 2.7% of the deaths in 60% of the population. 

Another way of looking at it is 23 times as many deaths in 1/14th the number of people. The correlation is in granite. 

 

If covid pushes with 30% less force it's not likely to push many people into their graves at all. Even with the original, stronger versions of covid, 94% of the Americans who died needed to have other co-morbidities in order for covid to be able to finish them. Take away 30% of the severity, what's left? People on palliative plus a handful of really unlucky outliers? 

Yet outside of this and other forums no one in the media or health organizations are reassuring us by making this point. Why not?  Big difference with the Spanish Flu, which, without mask mandates ect, killed healthy people, between 50 to 100 million worldwide.  As crass as it might sound, how many years off a life does COVID remove.  Perhaps that 92 year old would have died within the year anyhow.  Frankly I know someone who is 92 and very healthy who has not succumbed and refuses the vaccine.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

Your math is incoherent.  Something 30% less severe isn’t more deadly.  Almost 100+% of the vulnerable population is fully vaccinated.  Non vulnerable people are not going to die from a mild form of covid.  I feel sorry for people that are so illogically frightened like you.

It proves that good, auld adage, "A little knowledge is dangerous."

And in this case very, very little!

Where danger is proportional to 1/knowledge...

You do the math

 

[WestCanMan]

43 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Interesting analogy. I'll have to try that drinking experiment...

Lol.

"What contemptible scoundrel stole the cork from my lunch?" 

[WestCanMan]

36 minutes ago, Faramir said:

Yet outside of this and other forums no one in the media or health organizations are reassuring us by making this point. Why not?  Big difference with the Spanish Flu, which, without mask mandates ect, killed healthy people, between 50 to 100 million worldwide.  As crass as it might sound, how many years off a life does COVID remove.  Perhaps that 92 year old would have died within the year anyhow.  Frankly I know someone who is 92 and very healthy who has not succumbed and refuses the vaccine.

That's all 100% bang-on. Two of the hardest-hit demographics by the Spanish flu were 28 yr old men and pregnant women, neither of those groups are at any risk of death by covid.

The CDC said that in 94% of the "covid 19 deaths" tallied in the US, the victim's death certificate also listed one or more other causes of death. On average there were 2.6 other causes of death on the certificate. 

Not all of those were pre-existing conditions, and for sure some of those alternate causes were triggered by covid itself, but what percent of Americans over 70 (the covid target demographic) aren't morbidly obese, or don't have heart disease, lung disease, liver disease, etc?

I've said it many times here: covid (the disease from China's only BSL4 lab) seems tailor-made to kill Americans.... 

[OftenWrong]

The priests of covid have given out their latest incantation,

Omicron

Omnes,

Generationes

Omicron Omnes generationes

 

 

[Yzermandius19]

9 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

How? The virus grew wings and flew over the ocean into Canada? It was brought in by travelers. I posted in February 2021 asking the Federal government to close the damn borders completely.

the variant has been here for months

shutting down travel makes no sense

as usual you support the government totally overreacting to things

that doesn't make it a good idea

Edited December 16, 2021 by Yzermandius19