Army Guy Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 14 hours ago, TreeBeard said: So they’re forced to get the vaccine in the same way people are forced to get a licence, insurance and keep their car maintained if they want to drive on public roads. Doesn’t sound so bad…. Sounds cheaper and easier than getting a licence! I agree it is easier to comply, does not mean that you are not FORCED to make a choice, or take an action you disagree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 26 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I agree it is easier to comply, does not mean that you are not FORCED to make a choice, or take an action you disagree with. Or, if you disagree, you still have a choice not to get the shot, correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Or, if you disagree, you still have a choice not to get the shot, correct? Sure you still have a choice, both suck just make one, what your telling me here is since it is a choice your not being "forced" and while it is an extreme example, you have 2 plates one has a pile of shit on it, the other is empty... want to drive/ or continue life as we once did, then you eat the shit and smile at the end of it... I'm not forcing you to eat shit as you make the actual choice...what i am saying i have limited your choices to 2 ,one is worse than the other. I am "forcing" you to make a choice...freedom or continue to be restricted in your movement. Edited September 27, 2021 by Army Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 42 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Sure you still have a choice, both suck just make one, what your telling me here is since it is a choice your not being "forced" and while it is an extreme example, you have 2 plates one has a pile of shit on it, the other is empty... want to drive/ or continue life as we once did, then you eat the shit and smile at the end of it... I'm not forcing you to eat shit as you make the actual choice...what i am saying i have limited your choices to 2 ,one is worse than the other. I am "forcing" you to make a choice...freedom or continue to be restricted in your movement. A more realistic analogy is mandatory vaccines to go to a different country. You’re forced to get these…. Except you don’t have to. Sooo…. Is it really so bad? Are you using the word for hyperbole or to try and make your case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: you have 2 plates one has a pile of shit on it, the other is empty.. A better analogy would be that the first plate has steak, veggies and potatoes (able to enjoy all activities), second plate has lettuce and chickpeas on it (some limits on activities) First choice has better outcomes, the second plate sucks but it's survivable. You make the choice, nobody is forcing you to eat lettuce and chickpeas for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 4 hours ago, dialamah said: Do you disagree with the outcome of these cases and the judge's comments? There isn't any right to hate speech in Canada I vehement disagree with the outcome and comments in every example Canada hates free speech, that's why they restrict hate speech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1) Ok, so this is one of those. Free speech doesn't mean you get to scream "Jew" in a crowded Juden theatre. 2) Or... zero. Or, it just bothers people. Maybe, like Sunday shopping, or gay marriage or somesuch ... the "public" will be able to handle racists distributing material trying to brainwash them. I will reassess my position constantly. 3) No I don't. Don't believe me. Why don't we BOTH do nothing and see what changes ? I predict... nothing. Nothing will change. 4) Free speech isn't absolute - see 1) 5) I appreciate that your mob says otherwise. Your mob is smaller, though so you lose. If the city can restrict me from expressing myself through my lawnmower at 6 AM then they can restrict an ugly retard handing my kids material saying the holocaust doesn't happen. Want to change that ? Get to court... 1) you should be allowed to scream to jew any movie theater you dam well please 2) it offending is not relevant to whether it should be legal or not, free speech is a right, in large part to protect offensive speech it is not there to protect speech that no one finds offensive, because no one is calling you for that speech to be banned free speech protects controversial speech 5) the size of the mob is irrelevant, free speech isn't only free speech if a majority agrees with it the courts hate free speech, fck them and the horse they rode in on the courts agreeing with you doesn't make you right nor does it make your position moral, any more than the SCOTUS agreed with supporters of slavery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Canada hates free speech, that's why they restrict hate speech Canada hates hate speech, that's why they restrict hate speech. Fify Don't know if you live in Canada, but if you do, perhaps you'd be happier in the States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, dialamah said: Canada hates hate speech, that's why they restrict hate speech. Fify Don't know if you live in Canada, but if you do, perhaps you'd be happier in the States. hate speech is free speech America knows Canada and Canadians wouldn't know what free speech is, if it slapped them in the face Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannucklehead Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 40 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: hate speech is free speech America knows Canada and Canadians wouldn't know what free speech is, if it slapped them in the face I guess thats why the u.s. has so very little problems with riots and such.... Oh wait, thats Canada ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said: I guess thats why the u.s. has so very little problems with riots and such.... Oh wait, thats Canada ? America has riot problems in spite of embracing free speech not because of it Canada is more peaceful, in spite of it's hatred of free speech not because of it Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannucklehead Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 33 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: America has riot problems in spite of embracing free speech not because of it Canada is more peaceful, in spite of it's hatred of free speech not because of it Seems that mess in Charlottesville proves otherwise, but thats o.k., keep living in your fantasy world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said: Seems that mess in Charlottesville proves otherwise, but thats o.k., keep living in your fantasy world. Charlottesville does not prove otherwise Charlottesville would have been worse if hate speech had been banned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said: 1) you should be allowed to scream to jew any movie theater you dam well please 2) in large part to protect offensive speech 3) the courts hate free speech, fck them and the horse they rode in on 4) the courts agreeing with you doesn't make you right nor does it make your position moral 1) Disagree 2) That's not why we have it. It was Rousseau not Rickles 3) Bleating for "rights" and saying fck the courts is kind of like hating home delivery and yet wanting pizza 4) Right, but I also don't have to prove anything to keep the status quo, and eat my pizza... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 4) Right, but I also don't have to prove anything to keep the status quo, and eat my pizza... if you are fine that your status quo is built on stupidity and it being the status quo is good enough for you then you are beyond help at this point you're the kind of dude who would have supported slavery when it was the legal status quo and popular among the masses you'd feel no need to justify your position either logically or morally and demand that the burden of proof is on anyone who opposes slavery if they want to change that Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Charlottesville would have been worse if hate speech had been banned Than why hasn't Canada had a Charlottesville? Or anywhere near the hate-motivated crimes the States have had? If hate speech is limited, how do haters find like-minded people so they can group up? Or even persuade others to join their "cause"? Sure, haters can hope to find like-minded people in the pub or Church through in-person conversation, but if their message isn't acceptable in public, than they're not going to be able to find enough supporters to pull off a Charlottesville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, dialamah said: Than why hasn't Canada had a Charlottesville? culture not the law if it was all based on the law Canada would have many far worse Charlottesvilles just like they would have far more mass shootings stupid prohibitions always makes things worse the road to hell is paved with good intentions Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: 1. if you are fine that your status quo is built on stupidity 2. then you are beyond help at this point 3. who would have supported slavery when it was the legal status quo and popular among the masses 1. I'm not the kind of person who says that people who disagree with them are stupid. I also don't say 'fck the courts' 2. I guess I'm not asking for help from someone who thinks they're above the court system anyway. 3. No, I'm not saying morality is always right - far from it. Sometimes it is enough, though, for something to be supported morally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 54 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: America has riot problems in spite of embracing free speech not because of it Canada is more peaceful, in spite of it's hatred of free speech not because of it Wow, that's such a weird conclusion. Take a look at Western countries that limit hate speech and you'll notice hate motivated violence than the States. Can it really be coincidence that the country that allows hate speech has more hate-motivated crime than countries that limit hate speech? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I'm not the kind of person who says that people who disagree with them are stupid. I also don't say 'fck the courts' 2. I guess I'm not asking for help from someone who thinks they're above the court system anyway. 3. No, I'm not saying morality is always right - far from it. Sometimes it is enough, though, for something to be supported morally. 3. and you haven't supported your position morally you have only appealed to popularity and legality implying that if something is legal and popular that automatically makes it moral when clearly there are many examples throughout history where that is not the case and it isn't the case with hate speech restrictions either Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, dialamah said: Wow, that's such a weird conclusion. Take a look at Western countries that limit hate speech and you'll notice hate motivated violence than the States. Can it really be coincidence that the country that allows hate speech has more hate-motivated crime than countries that limit hate speech? yes because the trend is that the countries who support hate speech restrictions the most have the most hate and the countries who support hate speech restrictions the least have the least hate pointing to one cherry picked outlier and comparing them to countries with less hate speech restrictions than most who are far less hateful than the countries that restrict it a lot more does not negate the obvious trend Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: yes because the trend is that the countries who support hate speech restrictions the most have the most hate and the countries who support hate speech restrictions the least have the least hate pointing to one cherry picked outlier, does not negate the obvious trend Ok, done with someone so clearly confused and illogical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, dialamah said: Ok, done with someone so clearly confused and illogical. projection is a helluva drug Western Europe supports hate speech laws less than most countries on the planet and they are some of the least hateful countries on the planet the fact that you can't follow that basic logic shows you are arguing in bad faith just because America is more pro free speech and is less peaceful than some nations that have less free speech is not proof that more free speech begets more hate it is in fact precisely the opposite as usual you are allowing America Derangement Syndrome to cloud your judgement on the benefits of liberty and side against individual rights for no good reason Edited September 27, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 @Yzermandius19 - Here's some periods for your sentences - ...... Here are the capital letters you forgot: P, T, J, I. I'm done discussing with you because you make no sense. But I don't mind helping you with your grammar and punctuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 27, 2021 Report Share Posted September 27, 2021 18 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: 1. and you haven't supported your position morally 2. that automatically makes it moral, when clearly there are many examples throughout history where that is not the case 3. and it isn't the case with hate speech restrictions either 1. Ok, well let's just say it's public morality to tolerate other groups as established in our culture and legal precepts then. 2. Ok that's interesting. What are you thinking about here ? What examples ? 3. Yes, Canada abhors hate speech don't you know ? I don't know how I would prove it other than to show you polls that show Canadians are concerned about system racism curtailing hate speech and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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