The Boomer Flu

[Aristides]

2 minutes ago, cougar said:

If this is what they charge, what a bloody scam that is!

It equates to $3,500/day.  You can hire a 10 axle lowbed to haul heavy equipment - truck, trailer, driver, overtime, fuel for less than $300/hour.    What kind of hourly costs do they have at a hospital?  I am guessing close to nothing.

You really are pretty clueless. A hospital bed alone costs about $50K.

[cougar]

2 minutes ago, Aristides said:

You really are pretty clueless. A hospital bed alone costs about $50K.

Costs?

Please give me a breakdown of costs.  You mean this is what they CHARGE!

[Aristides]

10 minutes ago, cougar said:

Costs?

Please give me a breakdown of costs.  You mean this is what they CHARGE!

No, this is what medical equipment costs, Also, intensive care is very labour intensive, do you think doctors and nurses with years of university should be making less than a heavy equipment operator?

[Aristides]

$ 50K was high but.

Quote

According to the newest data in the Technology Price Index, hospitals pay $15,627 per hospital bed, with ICU beds costing a reported $20,000 to $30,000 and bariatric beds retailing for as much as $40,000.  The three major brands, Hill-Rom, Linet and Stryker, all fall within this range.

That's in USD.

[cougar]

13 minutes ago, Aristides said:

do you think doctors and nurses with years of university should be making less than a heavy equipment operator?

Do you think every patient in a bed has a doctor beside him 24/7 ?

Yes nurses make about as much as heavy equipment operators!  And you don't have a nurse by every patient 24/7 either.

Edited September 28, 2021 by cougar

[Infidel Dog]

8 hours ago, Aristides said:

So get vaccinated and don’t wind up in hospital at all. 

Well, if you're confident in that why would you care what I do? If you're safe why should it matter to you what I do. Why do you need lockdowns and vaccine passports?

[dialamah]

5 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Well, if you're confident in that why would you care what I do? If you're safe why should it matter to you what I do. Why do you need lockdowns and vaccine passports?

My partner has essential tremors; it's now affecting his speech and will soon start affecting his ability to walk.  There's surgery he can have, but so long as the hospitals are full of critically ill people who didn't think they should be vaccinated, he'll have to wait.  There is no vaccine for essential tremors. 

Lockdowns and vaccines both reduce the spread of Covid and reduce hospitalizations, giving people like my partner a better chance of having the surgery they need.  So yeah, if it takes vaccine passports and restrictions to keep Covid under control and hospitals free to care for non-Covid patients, bring them on.

And note Alberta, whose Premier took to heart the anti-mask, anti-lockdown and anti-vax sentiment: look at where they are now. 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by dialamah

[Aristides]

9 hours ago, cougar said:

Do you think every patient in a bed has a doctor beside him 24/7 ?

Yes nurses make about as much as heavy equipment operators!  And you don't have a nurse by every patient 24/7 either.

What do you know about ICU staffing? Nothing. Yes, ICU’s are staffed 24/7, 365. All hospitals are. You dispute the costs while knowing nothing of the subject. RN’ go to university for four years before they even start their practicums and ICU is a specialty. How long for equipment operators?

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Aristides

[EastCanada90]

47 minutes ago, Aristides said:

What do you know about ICU staffing? Nothing. Yes, ICU’s are staffed 24/7, 365. All hospitals are. You dispute the costs while knowing nothing of the subject. RN’ go to university for four years before they even start their practicums and ICU is a specialty. How long for equipment operators?

16 week course here for them lol.  heavy equpiment i mean

47 minutes ago, Aristides said:

 

 

 

[Aristides]

The average cost of running an ICU bed in Canada is three times that of a regular bed. Source, Princeton University study.

 

2002 Cost of running ICU bed that require  ventilation USD

Edited September 28, 2021 by Aristides

[EastCanada90]

sask and alberta healthcare/hospitals/icu on brink of collapse   if you havn't got your shot and live there just go get it  you will protect yourself and others.

[cougar]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

What do you know about ICU staffing? Nothing. Yes, ICU’s are staffed 24/7, 365. All hospitals are. You dispute the costs while knowing nothing of the subject. RN’ go to university for four years before they even start their practicums and ICU is a specialty. How long for equipment operators?

 

 

 

Doesn't matter how long they study.  They will make less than an equipment operator who is at $40/hour and puts in a lot of overtime hours.

Yes, I know little on staffing, but enough to know that one nurse can monitor more than 1 patient and that 1 doctor may spend a few minutes to an hour per patient.  

I think you should think a bit before posting nonsense to refute what I post, backing it up with more nonsense from journalists who cannot tell the difference between price and cost.

[OftenWrong]

15 minutes ago, cougar said:

Doesn't matter how long they study.  They will make less than an equipment operator who is at $40/hour and puts in a lot of overtime hours.

Yes, I know little on staffing, but enough to know that one nurse can monitor more than 1 patient and that 1 doctor may spend a few minutes to an hour per patient.  

I think you should think a bit before posting nonsense to refute what I post, backing it up with more nonsense from journalists who cannot tell the difference between price and cost.

You are right, the other member knows not about what he speaks. Capital cost of a bed is not the running cost. A bed is used for years, for hundreds of people. The capital cost is not the major part of running costs. Most of the cost per patient is to cover facility operations and salaries. Plus other things like drugs.

The government doesnt like to give out money for new equipment. Sometimes the capital cost for beds comes from donations. 

That is why over the past thirty years we’ve seen hospitals scale back the number of available beds down to bare minimum. They treated the health care system like a just-in-time inventory for automotive parts. People warned this could lead to hardship in an emergency but they were not heeded.

And then along came Mary...

 

 

 

[dialamah]

12 minutes ago, cougar said:

Yes, I know little on staffing, but enough to know that one nurse can monitor more than 1 patient and that 1 doctor may spend a few minutes to an hour per patient.  

When my partner had back surgery, he was right next to a nurses station so that all three nurses could monitor him for his first two days (in case the bunch of pain killers he was taking for the pain caused him to OD).   There were other 4 or 5 other patients in that ward, but none who was as sick as him.  At that time, there was no Covid so the resources were available for the care he needed.  

Patients in the hospital with Covid on oxygen and on ventilators also need a lot of monitoring, and for longer than a couple of days.   But resources for that care not there because there are so many patients, burnout of medical care and the departure of nurses and other medical staff due to the stress of this pandemic.

You have no clue, so STFU.  

[Aristides]

29 minutes ago, cougar said:

Doesn't matter how long they study.  They will make less than an equipment operator who is at $40/hour and puts in a lot of overtime hours.

Yes, I know little on staffing, but enough to know that one nurse can monitor more than 1 patient and that 1 doctor may spend a few minutes to an hour per patient.  

I think you should think a bit before posting nonsense to refute what I post, backing it up with more nonsense from journalists who cannot tell the difference between price and cost.

The 2002 costs of running an ICU bed with a ventilator was from a government website not journalists but I doubt you bothered to read it.

[Aristides]

9 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Well, if you're confident in that why would you care what I do? If you're safe why should it matter to you what I do. Why do you need lockdowns and vaccine passports?

Well you obviously don’t care about the costs and pressures your actions could put on the health care system and the consequences for others in need of the system. If you don’t like being held accountable, that’s tough.

[taxme]

On 9/26/2021 at 2:22 PM, Infidel Dog said:

And this is what a super spreader of illegals looks like in Dal Rio Texas.

And here's what's happening with them:

https://nypost.com/2021/09/24/biden-cleared-out-del-rio-camp-by-letting-most-haitians-in-guaranteeing-more-crises-down-the-line/

It is believed that there are another 10-12 000 more Haitian illegals living in many Latin American countries preparing to make the big push and the big journey to America. We will no doubt see another camp full of Haitian illegal criminal aliens like what we see above.

Thanks to BiDumb, the buffoon has pretty much dissolved the Mexican and American border. It's a free for all for all of the world to come on in, we are wide open and waiting for your visit, I mean stay and gawd only knows as to how many have covid. ?

Edited September 28, 2021 by taxme

[Infidel Dog]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

Well you obviously don’t care about the costs and pressures your actions could put on the health care system and the consequences for others in need of the system. If you don’t like being held accountable, that’s tough.

So now you care about costs?

You didn't seem to care when I told you keeping patients out of hospital with a therapeutic would be much cheaper than a week in ICU.

So is it a good thing to save money using monoclonal antibodies like what Florida did or is it a bad thing. 

BC hospital bureaucrats cry crocodile tears about questionable overcrowded hospitals. Even if real that could be fixed with MCAs. Anyway I'm not sure I those numbers are credible or apply. People using them should try them on somebody who's not from BC and remembers there were delays before covid. 

I'm not sure what Di meant by the wonders of Kenney's vaccine passport strategy. I'm kind of curious what she's talking about.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Aristides]

19 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

So now you care about costs?

You didn't seem to care when I told you keeping patients out of hospital with a therapeutic would be much cheaper than a week in ICU.

So is it a good thing to save money using monoclonal antibodies like what Florida did or is it a bad thing. 

BC hospital bureaucrats cry crocodile tears about questionable overcrowded hospitals. Even if real that could be fixed with MCAs. Anyway I'm not sure I those numbers are credible or apply. People using them should try them on somebody who's not from BC and remembers there were delays before covid. 

I'm not sure what Di meant by the wonders of Kenney's vaccine passport strategy. I'm kind of curious what she's talking about.

 

I’ve always cared what it cost. Keeping people out of hospitals with vaccines is much cheaper, you can fully vaccinate 60 people for the cost of a single MCA treatment, never mind the cost of administering it.

 

BC hospitals have cancelled elective surgeries. If you break a hip, you will wait at least three weeks. Got that first hand from a nurse working in our regional hospital yesterday.

They are also taking nurses out of palliative where they have people in the halls because the rest of the hospital is swamped. You have no frigging clue what is going on.

Edited September 28, 2021 by Aristides

[Infidel Dog]

There's been a shortage of nurses and space in BC for some time now. 

I've seen people in beds in the halls long before covid. I remember one time on the news they were talking having to hold people in Tim Hortons. 

As far as it all being unvaccinated people in hospitals that's nonsense. For some reason in Ontario and Alberta they were getting really high unvaccinated to vaccinated numbers when the Delta Variant wave first hit. 

I remember when the variant first hit in Ontario we had a couple of yahoos here strutting around boasting about their high unvaccinated numbers being hospitalized. They're not waving their homemade, 2 week graphs around anymore. The stats are starting to level out.

I think what happens is at the beginning of a variant wave people start arriving at the hospital. The unvaccinated are sent home because medical staff believe the vaccine will cure them. Unvaccinated are kept over for observation. 

These could have been prevented from developing into something serious by being sent home with MCAs.

In countries that have been dealing with the variant longer like Israel and the Uk we see vaccinated to unvaccinated ratios level out to 50/50 and even higher favoring the unvaccinated.

Another problem with the vaccinations is the effectiveness starts to fade over time. I've heard an estimate of after 4 months.

And when you start to need boosters will they be stilting the vaccinated to unvaccinated stat by adding double jabs to the unvaccinated stat the way people like the 2 yahoos were doing with the single jab stat in Ontario to get a 95% unvaccinated number.

[Infidel Dog]

Then there's this:

"

Several physicians and other medical experts slammed COVID-19 vaccines and calls for mass COVID vaccination at an FDA meeting on booster shots last week. The experts, including a top Johnson & Johnson researcher, warned that the shots “kill more people than they save” and pose a “clear and present danger” of creating coronavirus variants.

The FDA vaccine advisory committee’s booster shot hearing on Friday featured hours of testimony ahead of a 16-2 vote against the Biden administration’s plan to roll out third doses of the Pfizer vaccine for “fully vaccinated” Americans. The booster program, which may launch as early as this week, despite the FDA vote, has already spurred multiple resignations of top FDA officials.

“I’m going to focus my remarks today on the elephant in the room that nobody likes to talk about: that the vaccines kill more people than they save,” Steve Kirsch, executive director of the COVID-19 Early Treatment Fund, told the FDA Vaccine and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) in his testimony."

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/experts-warn-of-covid-vaccine-risks-at-fda-hearing-the-vaccines-kill-more-than-they-save/

You're going to need something better than you don't like who's saying it to convince me it didn't happen.

The doctors could be wrong but they did say it. Somebody like me who has had problems with the flu vaccine and also the first jab of this mRNA one might be hesitant to keep going. But your right to worry supersedes their right to worry so 'fuck them,' right?

And what about the people who have had covid and are now immune? Where does your right to go all jackboot, 'Papers please', Nazi-style on them come from?

Edited September 28, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[dialamah]

15 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

There's been a shortage of nurses and space in BC for some time now. 

Yup.  And anti-vaxers use that as an excuse to not care if it gets worse due to there actions.  Just sloughing off responsibility.  

16 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

As far as it all being unvaccinated people in hospitals that's nonsense.

So everybody is lying, right.  Alberta calling for help and sending people out if Province because they're out of beds is just a big hoax.  Kenney laughing up his sleeve at how gullible we are. 

18 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

These could have been prevented from developing into something serious by being sent home with MCAs.

Yup.  Let's have the health care system pay $30,000 per person instead of $20 so the anti-vaxers won't be inconvenienced.  After all, it's not their money being spent.

20 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Another problem with the vaccinations is the effectiveness starts to fade over time.

So let's see how many people we can kill now, is that your idea?

21 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I've heard an estimate of after 4 months.

And I've *heard* that anti-vaxers have sawdust for brains.  Doesn't make it true, does it.  

22 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

And when you start to need boosters will they be stilting the vaccinated to unvaccinated stat by adding double jabs to the unvaccinated stat the way people like the 2 yahoos were doing with the single jab stat in Ontario to get a 95% unvaccinated number.

This is incoherent.  Like all the "reasons" used by anti-vaxers.

 

[Aristides]

Gee, the guy heading the Covid Early Treatment Fund is bad mouthing vaccines. Quell Surprise! No conflict of interest there.

[Infidel Dog]

So basically Di, if I cut away all the blather you don't believe me when I say the stats are questionable.

Time will tell. Vaccines will continue to increase, as will variants and calls for boosters. At what point can we say these vaccines aren't working.

All I can say is, wish I was in Florida where monoclonal antibodies are still accessible.

[Infidel Dog]

17 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Gee, the guy heading the Covid Early Treatment Fund is bad mouthing vaccines. Quell Surprise! No conflict of interest there.

You would prefer I only listen to a guy like Fauci, I guess. Why, because he's so non-partisan with his China and Big Pharma connections.