Burn, baby, Burn

[WestCanMan]

Honestly, the stupidity of leftists never ceases to amaze me. 

"We can't burn coal here now, it's too bad for global warming. In order to save the planet we have to ship that coal to China to burn it."

"Extracting Alberta oil does too much damage to the environment. The area is only 700 times cleaner now than it was when the oil sands started being developed. We need to bring supertankers to Canada from ethically challenged countries like Saudi Arabia to be environmentally and socially responsible!"

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1. That sounds really hard to believe, considering how many coal-fired plants they currently have and how many they're planning to build. Coal currently produces over 55% of China's electricity. 

1. "Could" come.  I think you mistook what I posted as a policy paper from the Chinese government.  Fair enough, but it's actually an assessment of possibilities.

[Nefarious Banana]

54 minutes ago, myata said:

"Renewable" does not mean infinite, or exploitable without reason or measure. Are salmon resources still "renewable" as cod was in the first half of the last century? Are we learning anything?

The federal government announced on Tuesday significant measures to shut down a number of Pacific commercial fisheries and First Nations communal commercial fisheries as the salmon stock has “reached a crisis.” From crisis to crisis what a renewable march.

You're confusing fish with timber.

[myata]

Not at all, you just fail to see the obvious connection: the cause is the same, and there will be no other any time soon.

[Nefarious Banana]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Not at all, you just fail to see the obvious connection: the cause is the same, and there will be no other any time soon.

Norwegian type/style fish farms with their alien disease carrying fish in the river mouth and an out of control native 'food fishery' have nothing to do with declining salmon stocks?  

Logging gets blamed for global warming, high gas prices, ring around the collar, and wheat crop failure. 

[myata]

Greed and carelessness, whatever style or brand, is the reason. And it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[cougar]

8 hours ago, myata said:

"Renewable" does not mean infinite, or exploitable without reason or measure. Are salmon resources still "renewable" as cod was in the first half of the last century? Are we learning anything?

The federal government announced on Tuesday significant measures to shut down a number of Pacific commercial fisheries and First Nations communal commercial fisheries as the salmon stock has “reached a crisis.” From crisis to crisis what a renewable march.

"Renewable" is what you can expect to harvest without impacting the supply chain.  And by supply chain I do not mean an idiotic capitalist corporate structure meant to generate "profit".  I mean a natural supply cycle.

You have 1,000,000,000 salmon, of which 900,000,000 manage to spawn and reproduce, 100,000,000 get harvested by all species combined, including humans then next year (or in 5 years whatever the cycle is) you can expect to have the same 1,000,000,000 salmon return, because the harvesting is not a limiting factor to them and neither is their environment.

Now imagine we decided we will harvest 900,000,000 salmon, leave 100,000,000 to reach the spawning grounds, but in the meantime we also fucked up the ocean, making it acidic and full of pollution, we also removed essential vegetation along rivers, salmon depend on, or water levels are regulated by, and then we still called it all "renewable" and "sustainable".

Well, all top soils ended up in the river bed in a flood and took all salmon eggs with them.  Final result - there will be no nutrients left on the slope to support a large tree any more, there will be no salmon to return, there will be no normal weather, but only extreme events.

Our fucked government continues to do the same thing, thinking their bad luck with somehow go away.  I say it is here to stay.  They did it to themselves. They fucked up my life and my kids' life too in the process.

But from now on, I will glee when I see all infrastructure removed by landslides.  They will never manage to ship oil, gas and coal any more.  Because nature will not let them.  They really fucked it up with their greed and stupidity.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by cougar

[myata]

13 hours ago, cougar said:

Our fucked government continues

Here, a disagreement. No, it isn't just the government. Everybody needs to feed mouths, nice car and a nice mansion, shareholders need healthy returns etc. No need to reassign blame here. The final collection service wouldn't differentiate in any case.

Edited November 20, 2021 by myata

[PIK]

13 hours ago, cougar said:

"Renewable" is what you can expect to harvest without impacting the supply chain.  And by supply chain I do not mean an idiotic capitalist corporate structure meant to generate "profit".  I mean a natural supply cycle.

You have 1,000,000,000 salmon, of which 900,000,000 manage to spawn and reproduce, 100,000,000 get harvested by all species combined, including humans then next year (or in 5 years whatever the cycle is) you can expect to have the same 1,000,000,000 salmon return, because the harvesting is not a limiting factor to them and neither is their environment.

Now imagine we decided we will harvest 900,000,000 salmon, leave 100,000,000 to reach the spawning grounds, but in the meantime we also fucked up the ocean, making it acidic and full of pollution, we also removed essential vegetation along rivers, salmon depend on, or water levels are regulated by, and then we still called it all "renewable" and "sustainable".

Well, all top soils ended up in the river bed in a flood and took all salmon eggs with them.  Final result - there will be no nutrients left on the slope to support a large tree any more, there will be no salmon to return, there will be no normal weather, but only extreme events.

Our fucked government continues to do the same thing, thinking their bad luck with somehow go away.  I say it is here to stay.  They did it to themselves. They fucked up my life and my kids' life too in the process.

But from now on, I will glee when I see all infrastructure removed by landslides.  They will never manage to ship oil, gas and coal any more.  Because nature will not let them.  They really fucked it up with their greed and stupidity.

 

 

Imagine if we didn't throw half of it away.

[cougar]

2 hours ago, myata said:

Here, a disagreement. No, it isn't just the government. Everybody needs to feed mouths, nice car and a nice mansion, shareholders need healthy returns etc. No need to reassign blame here. The final collection service wouldn't differentiate in any case.

But shouldn't regulation somehow come from the government bodies?

When we do not want  a pipeline, it is them who push it through.  When we want no logging, gill nets, fish farms, it is them issuing the permits.  When we want to save rivers and wildlife, it is them changing definitions in the laws to allow unimpeded growth.

Those morons with the mansions are only that - morons. They are more or less cattle that need to get managed and sewage lines put in place to take their refuse away for further processing.

[myata]

16 minutes ago, cougar said:

When we do not want  a pipeline, it is them who push it through.  When we want no logging, gill nets, fish farms, it is them issuing the permits.  When we want to save rivers and wildlife, it is them changing definitions in the laws to allow unimpeded growth.

Someone comes to them with the same arguments: "mouths", "jobs", "development", "economic growth", "shareholder profits". They do something to "balance" to please all to some extent but who promised that it'll be enough? Like who can the honest "but look we were trying!" be shown to and let through like that Covid code? When a priest or czar or democratically-elected manager has a full power to define and decide what is public good the result always turns to be the same, the difference seems only in the time needed to get there. And in millennia of conscious history now we haven't come up with anything different.

I think we could try some form of direct democracy, 100% binding. At least in every disaster, broomstick or catastrophe we would know with absolute certainty where the blame lies and no illusions or excuses.

[cougar]

24 minutes ago, myata said:

Someone comes to them with the same arguments: "mouths", "jobs", "development", "economic growth", "shareholder profits". They do something to "balance" to please all to some extent but who promised that it'll be enough? Like who can the honest "but look we were trying!" be shown to and let through like that Covid code? When a priest or czar or democratically-elected manager has a full power to define and decide what is public good the result always turns to be the same, the difference seems only in the time needed to get there. And in millennia of conscious history now we haven't come up with anything different.

I think we could try some form of direct democracy, 100% binding. At least in every disaster, broomstick or catastrophe we would know with absolute certainty where the blame lies and no illusions or excuses.

The government is 100% to blame.  They govern and it is their responsibility to protect the land and all resources.

They do not even have proper educational material in schools to teach kids of the impacts of pollution, littering, resource extraction - the real value of what they do,or what they buy and throw away.

You can't expect everyone to self regulate themselves and all of a sudden to change their habits for the greater good.  This would be utopia.

[PIK]

34 minutes ago, cougar said:

The government is 100% to blame.  They govern and it is their responsibility to protect the land and all resources.

They do not even have proper educational material in schools to teach kids of the impacts of pollution, littering, resource extraction - the real value of what they do,or what they buy and throw away.

You can't expect everyone to self regulate themselves and all of a sudden to change their habits for the greater good.  This would be utopia.

Utopia. There is the problem with left wingers. The fabled Utopia. Never going to happen and we will be better off when you get that in your skull.

[myata]

7 minutes ago, PIK said:

will be better off when

Nope, a misconception. Everybody will end up in the same place, the difference only in the time to destination. Depleting and exhausting natural resources, undermining and eventually blowing up ecosystems, polluting the oceans till they could no longer sustain plentiful life, catastrophic weather events, rising sea levels, mass and uncontrolled migration. And to all that, add nuclear and thermonuclear arsenals spread across continents just for the final point. Intelligent aliens, where are you, hallo, hallo!

[cougar]

10 minutes ago, myata said:

 Intelligent aliens, where are you, hallo, hallo!

I'm here but can't help.  Sorry.?

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, cougar said:

I'm here but can't help.  Sorry.?

Take that aluminum hat off so you can see 

[cougar]

20 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Take that aluminum hat off so you can see 

Wait a second.

I just had it unscrewed off my head.   It is easy to see with my 8 eyes,  and I can do 50 times the work with my 128 tentacles but.....can't help with what you guys did with all those monstrous excavators, dozers, loaders, trucks.......the list goes on and on.

How can any extra-terestrial civilization "help" us?

They come here, take a look as say "Wow, you guys are so advanced; you are running out of food, space, oxygen, but we like you and we will give you some of ours, so you can further expand and have 150 billion people on your planet.  Then we will continue to bring you food and water, but the mass of your Earth will start to increase with what we bring in, it will slow down its speed, change its trajectory and it will leave the Solar System.

Or maybe they take a look and say " Those morons destroyed their planet - treated all other forms of life like shit, treated one another like shit, we cannot reason with them, so two options left - we destroy all of them and take control, or we leave them like that till they die off, which will not take much longer, but will be a more humane solution for us."

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by cougar

[Yzermandius19]

On 11/20/2021 at 12:45 PM, cougar said:

But shouldn't regulation somehow come from the government bodies?

When we do not want  a pipeline, it is them who push it through.  When we want no logging, gill nets, fish farms, it is them issuing the permits.  When we want to save rivers and wildlife, it is them changing definitions in the laws to allow unimpeded growth.

Those morons with the mansions are only that - morons. They are more or less cattle that need to get managed and sewage lines put in place to take their refuse away for further processing.

your wants do not supersede the wants of others

just because you want the government interfering with the economy to stop people from doing things you don't like

doesn't mean it should

Edited November 22, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[cougar]

11 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

just because you want the government interfering with the economy to stop people from doing things you don't like

doesn't mean it should

The tail does not wag the dog; it is the other way around, Expert #2.

[Yzermandius19]

6 hours ago, cougar said:

The tail does not wag the dog; it is the other way around, Expert #2.

you ain't the dog

you're the tail

and an entitled control freak tail

that whines about not being able to control the behavior of the dog

Edited November 23, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[cougar]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you ain't the dog

 

Speak about lack of comprehension. 

The government is The DOG

The industry is The TAIL

Sorry, this is the last time I am helping you out with homework.  Next time you are on your own.

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by cougar

[Yzermandius19]

32 minutes ago, cougar said:

Speak about lake of comprehension. 

The government is The DOG

The industry is The TAIL

Sorry, this is the last time I am helping you out with homework.  Next time you are on your own.

the government shouldn't stick it's nose in where it doesn't belong

that's what people like you don't get

if industry does something you don't like, you think the government should stop them

 

you don't want to protect the environment

you want the government to harm industry and anyone who benefits from it

you simply wish to invoke the environment as your excuse to do so

it's all about compliance

not science

fake environmentalist zealot over 9000

when are you going to learn that communism and environmentalism aren't the same thing?

when are you going to learn that heavy handed government central planning is worse for the environment than the industries you rail against?

Edited November 23, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[cougar]

14 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the government shouldn't stick it's nose in where it doesn't belong

.

Didn't read further than your first line.

The Government REGULATES the industry.

The industry does not regulate the government.

This is what you can't understand.

If you want me to read your posts , don't write more than 5 lines and make sure the first four are good enough so I can reach to the fifth.

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, cougar said:

Didn't read further than your first line.

The Government REGULATES the industry.

The industry does not regulate the government.

This is what you can't understand.

the question is not what the government regulates

it is what it should regulate

and you want it to regulate way too damn much

and interfere with people's lives for no good reason

other than satisfying your desire to punish others for behavior you don't like

your faith in central planning as the go to tool to address environmental issues is deeply misguided

Edited November 23, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[cougar]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the question is not what the government regulates

it is what it should regulate

and you want it to regulate way too damn much

and interfere with people's lives for no good reason

other than satisfying your desire to punish others for behavior you don't like

What do you want it to regulate  ????

I am saying it should do its job of regulating the industry the way it is meant by our laws.

You are saying, the government should continue to play dumb, don't do its job and let the industry continue to ruin the land.

It may be your house floating down the river next week, or a slide falling over your vehicle, or a hurricane plowing through your city, or a heat dome scorch your farm and set it on fire.

Gee,  do you ever make me tired....