Canada at the start of Delta dominated fourth Covid wave, so get vaccinated to save lives.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

I think Sweden did it right from the start.

Yeah.  Try to avoid infection with basic hand hygiene and distancing, and masking if you feel you need to.  I think mandatory masking must end.  It’s doing very strange things to people.  Vaccination is good but clearly the best protection is getting and being able to fight the virus through good health, vaccination, and treatments.  End all restrictions because not much more improvement is going to happen until the virus is endemic.  

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

What is the obsession the alt-right has with Israel? Is it just because they're Jews?

Israel is the 33rd most highly vaccinated country. It's about 61% vaccinated vs Sweden at 58%. But unlike Sweden Israel has a problem with religious freaks, mostly Orthodox Jews and Arabs, who live in big families and are vaccine hesitant. The death rate is highest among them and children, it's among the unvaccinated. I've already explained this but your obsession remains.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israels-covid-19-surge-shows-the-world-whats-coming-next

I see the CINO anti-semitism begins to rear its ugly head.

I know I promised not to deal with your 'Strawmen' until you admitted Liberty Daily was right and you were wrong but this is just too delicious...

The National Post says:

Quote

Since April, Israel has fallen from first to 33rd in Bloomberg’s vaccine tracker of populations considered fully vaccinated.

About 61% of Israelis have been given two doses, lower than in European laggards earlier in the year such as France and Spain.

 So I looked it up. Bloomberg has an interactive map updated to September 6:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

What I see when I run my cursor over it is:

Israel - 78.2 doses administered

Spain - 72.3

France - 68.5

If you scroll down they also say the following"

"Israel was first to show that vaccines were bending the curve of Covid infections. The country led the world in early vaccinations, and by February more than 84% of people ages 70 and older had received two doses. Covid cases declined rapidly, and a similar pattern of vaccination and recovery repeated across dozens of other countries." 

I see the confusion though. If you scroll down again they've divided it into different categories. One of them is "fully vaccinated." It's doses administered vs fully vaccinated.

So if I believe the national Post the under 70 crowd of orthodox Jews and Palestinians are reluctant to to get both doses of vaccine.

Very well. So what? Are you now saying Sweden should only have banned the under 70 population of orthodox Jews and Palestinians because they are responsible for the radical spike in infections? I don't think we've seen your support for the idea that only the unvaccinated spread the infection? Only a lot of smoke and mirrors about who's fully vaccinated. 

For now what we know for sure is Sweden a country that has never locked down or issued mask mandates is banning a country's citizens from entry that did. Just like Liberty daily said.

 

[Infidel Dog]

BTW it's also possible that the vaccine is not as reliable against infection by variants such as Delta as natural herd immunity such as Sweden may be enjoying. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

I got this one from an article on "The Great Reset" conspiracy theory but it's still interesting and worth a post on this thread that demands you get vaccinated. Feel free to try to prove the claim incorrect.

Quote

• Employees of six major hospitals in Cincinnati, Ohio, have filed a lawsuit, hoping to stop the mandated vaccine, which health experts are promoting with inconsistent messages, first claiming it does not stop community transmission; yet, requiring it for employment under the guise of preventing the spread of infection

https://noqreport.com/2021/09/07/the-great-reset-demands-firing-all-unvaccinated-employees/

Here's the story he's talking about:

Workers sue Tri-State hospitals over COVID-19 vaccine requirement

Edited September 7, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

I see the CINO anti-semitism begins to rear its ugly head.

I know I promised not to deal with your 'Strawmen' until you admitted Liberty Daily was right and you were wrong but this is just too delicious...

The National Post says:

 So I looked it up. Bloomberg has an interactive map updated to September 6:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

What I see when I run my cursor over it is:

Israel - 78.2 doses administered

Spain - 72.3

France - 68.5

If you scroll down they also say the following"

"Israel was first to show that vaccines were bending the curve of Covid infections. The country led the world in early vaccinations, and by February more than 84% of people ages 70 and older had received two doses. Covid cases declined rapidly, and a similar pattern of vaccination and recovery repeated across dozens of other countries." 

I see the confusion though. If you scroll down again they've divided it into different categories. One of them is "fully vaccinated." It's doses administered vs fully vaccinated.

So if I believe the national Post the under 70 crowd of orthodox Jews and Palestinians are reluctant to to get both doses of vaccine.

Very well. So what? Are you now saying Sweden should only have banned the under 70 population of orthodox Jews and Palestinians because they are responsible for the radical spike in infections? I don't think we've seen your support for the idea that only the unvaccinated spread the infection? Only a lot of smoke and mirrors about who's fully vaccinated. 

For now what we know for sure is Sweden a country that has never locked down or issued mask mandates is banning a country's citizens from entry that did. Just like Liberty daily said.

 

Thank you for taking the time to investigate this, thereby outting the bullshitters and virus fanatics.

[Zeitgeist]

Actually it’s a powerful article about the global corporate takeover of democracies that should appeal to activists on the left as well as the right.  What’s clear as a bell to me after many months of watching the waves of Covid come and go is that governments have unnecessarily directed human behaviour that people would have changed themselves in the face of rising deaths and hospitalizations.

What’s worrisome is that governments think that they must impose blunt rules rather than trusting individuals to use their judgment, especially when we are seeing a rise in cases despite rising vaccinations and restrictions.  My take away is that the virus is cyclical and vaccines resist serious Covid symptoms, but like restrictions, they are nether perfect nor the only tool of resistance.

Restrictions have damaged the functioning and finances of society so much that it’s impossible, especially after mass vaccinations, to justify their continuance.  They will be perpetuated indefinitely unless we simply stop imposing them, including masking, and find better ways to manage the virus.  Vaccines haven’t ended restrictions, and they haven’t ended Covid in the most vaccinated countries, so clearly they’re not the cure-all.

Restrictions are what have brought our population to its knees.  Treatments, good health, vaccines, and a well-informed populous who are empowered to make good personal choices are the best resistance.  Endless restrictions and mandated boosters play to corporate greed and destroy democracy, freedom, and the very fabric of society.  They must be fought and I’m not sure it can be done.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

They must be fought

Like said,

All I need to do is sit back, 

and watch you people come around.

 

[Zeitgeist]

16 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Like said,

All I need to do is sit back, 

and watch you people come around.

 

I think the prospects are worse than any of us are describing, and it’s not Covid that we primarily have to worry about.  

[Galloway]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:35 AM, OftenWrong said:

I am not an anti-vaxer, no. I’m more of a conscientious objector. I object to the government assuming they have the authority to do so. Or any business or corporate entity for that matter.

So you don't have a drivers license either because that's also "the government assuming they have the authority to do so."  How does that work out?

Edited September 8, 2021 by Galloway

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, Galloway said:

So you don't have a drivers license either because that's also "the government assuming they have the authority to do so."  How does that work out?

Every time they give themselves new authority needs to be challenged. 

It’s ok to not need a driver’s licence, you can still get by. Without a drivers licence you can walk around indoors and outside, you are not a threat to me.

This is much more wide spread than that. 

I also have concerns where they’ve stated plainly and flatly, there are no exceptions. No one can be exempt (BC, Que). That is health care racism and discrimination, plain and simple.

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by OftenWrong

[myata]

8 hours ago, Galloway said:

So you don't have a drivers license either because that's also "the government assuming they have the authority to do so."  How does that work out?

Does a government have, by default and without challenge an unquestionable and unlimited authority in anything? That is a simple question but it defines the nature of the society. Any decision of a democratic authority, especially wide-reaching like these, has to reasonable, proportional, based on evidence, use due process, with possibility of being challenged and independent oversight. And on the first sight at least, none literally, of these obvious conditions have been met in this case. This is as close to unaccountable, arbitrary and voluntaristic authority as I'm aware. And this kind of authority cannot be democratic, it's already something else.

[Zeitgeist]

9 hours ago, Galloway said:

So you don't have a drivers license either because that's also "the government assuming they have the authority to do so."  How does that work out?

There are big differences.  One can choose not to drive.  Most of us have to work.  Also driving is a skill that must be acquired and proven.  

[Zeitgeist]

49 minutes ago, myata said:

Does a government have, by default and without challenge an unquestionable and unlimited authority in anything? That is a simple question but it defines the nature of the society. Any decision of a democratic authority, especially wide-reaching like these, has to reasonable, proportional, based on evidence, use due process, with possibility of being challenged and independent oversight. And on the first sight at least, none literally, of these obvious conditions have been met in this case. This is as close to unaccountable, arbitrary and voluntaristic authority as I'm aware. And this kind of authority cannot be democratic, it's already something else.

Yes governments are issuing dictates now on a regular basis, even when there are no parameters around them such as time limits or “based on latest scientific evidence.”  I just don’t believe in the assurances anymore.  The pandemic was supposed to end when 70-80% of the population is vaccinated and/or has caught the virus.  Now it’s 85% and masking continues.  Fauci says the pandemic will continue until next spring, though it was supposed to end by last July.  There will always be “variants” and “waning immunity”, so we’re being set up for endless masking, restrictions, and boosters.  It’s a violation of liberty and democracy.  Those who are buying into the promise of a future freedom that never comes are assenting to this violation.  Proto slaves.  

[CITIZEN_2015]

Great news. It appears that for the last 3 days the number of new infections have subsided a bit. From 800 to 900 down to mid 500's. This may be due to increasing vaccinations thanks to government incentive for people to vaccinate. Lets hope this is a permanent thing not just a temporary fall.

For the second time in the last three days, Ontario is reporting a week-over-week decline in the number of new COVID-19 cases.

Provincial health officials logged 554 new COVID-19 cases today, a notable drop from the 656 infections reported last Wednesday and the 660 cases confirmed two weeks ago.

Today's case count is down from Tuesday's single-day tally of 564 and the 581 new infections reported on Monday

Ontario Health Minister Christine Elliott said of the cases reported today, 418, or 75 per cent, are in those who are not fully vaccinated or have an unknown vaccination status. Vaccinated individuals account for 136 of the new cases today.

About 32 per cent of Ontarians are not yet fully vaccinated.

The rolling seven-day average of new cases has also started to decline.

Edited September 8, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[myata]

"Fauci says the pandemic will continue until next spring"

He knows something, a great genius.

"thanks to government incentive"

In the summer 2020 cases went to zero due government incentive to close parks (then back to all time highs); this summer it was the great vaccination incentive. Anybody got a crystal ball to see what it'll be in 2022?

We don't need to guess how it works and will be working though. Cases go up, you mask up! And if and when they turn down, a great incentive! We win or you lose. And who said there's no good tips to learn from great authoritarian regimes?

[Argus]

23 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

BTW it's also possible that the vaccine is not as reliable against infection by variants such as Delta as natural herd immunity such as Sweden may be enjoying. 

Sweden has had 1.13 million cases of Covid in a population of 10.23 million.

[Shady]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

Sweden has had 1.13 million cases of Covid in a population of 10.23 million.

So what.  It’s not about cases.

[Argus]

On 9/7/2021 at 3:46 PM, Infidel Dog said:

The National Post says:

 So I looked it up. Bloomberg has an interactive map updated to September 6:

Can I first express my amusement at the delicious irony of you using a Bloomberg chart - that never to be believed enemy of Trumpism, to counter a story in the National Post - Canada's supposed conservative voice?

On 9/7/2021 at 3:46 PM, Infidel Dog said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

What I see when I run my cursor over it is:

Israel - 78.2 doses administered

Doses administered and people fully vaccinated is not the same things, as you note. Israel has also been actively pumping out booster shots to endangered populations, so some people have had three shots. And every story I read says most of the cases in Israel are among the unvaccinated.

How you use this to pretend vaccinations aren't working is beyond me.

[Argus]

1 minute ago, Shady said:

So what.  It’s not about cases.

So he was saying Swedish people have a herd immunity because so many have had covid.

[Argus]

On 9/7/2021 at 7:49 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Actually it’s a powerful article about the global corporate takeover of democracies that should appeal to activists on the left as well as the right.  What’s clear as a bell to me after many months of watching the waves of Covid come and go is that governments have unnecessarily directed human behaviour that people would have changed themselves in the face of rising deaths and hospitalizations.

What’s worrisome is that governments think that they must impose blunt rules rather than trusting individuals to use their judgment,

Because it's become patently clear a significant portion of the population has lousy judgement and would ignore all precautions if given a choice. When you have thousands of morons angrily protesting outside a hospital you know that the population has a strong strain of dumb buried within it.  People have to be ordered because otherwise you'd have these morons, the kind I see on videos every night screaming at airline stewards and shop clerks and acting like the request to wear a mask is the greatest imposition since the Nazis made Jews wear yellow stars. Most of them wear the masks now because they have to. Without mandates none of them would. Nor would they social distance. Nor would they get vaccinated or even tested. They're convinced it's 'the flu' and have no care or concern about who they might infect.

Like this idiot. https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/anti-vaccine-mandate-protester-attended-cornwall-ont-protest-with-active-covid-19-1.5576153

Edited September 9, 2021 by Argus

[Shady]

15 minutes ago, Argus said:

So he was saying Swedish people have a herd immunity because so many have had covid.

Oh, yeah they’re still about 10% away from herd immunity.

[Zeitgeist]

34 minutes ago, Argus said:

Because it's become patently clear a significant portion of the population has lousy judgement and would ignore all precautions if given a choice. When you have thousands of morons angrily protesting outside a hospital you know that the population has a strong strain of dumb buried within it.  People have to be ordered because otherwise you'd have these morons, the kind I see on videos every night screaming at airline stewards and shop clerks and acting like the request to wear a mask is the greatest imposition since the Nazis made Jews wear yellow stars. Most of them wear the masks now because they have to. Without mandates none of them would. Nor would they social distance. Nor would they get vaccinated or even tested. They're convinced it's 'the flu' and have no care or concern about who they might infect.

But let that play out for a minute.  If just about everyone else gets vaccinated and the vulnerable mask up, then those who flout all responsibility suffer the consequences, but there are sensible people pushing back on restrictions and even vaccination mandates, because there are no limits to them. How many boosters should be mandatory? How many more months or years should masks be mandatory?  I actually think the fearful, fear mongers, control freaks in government, and the paranoid are a bigger problem now than those who are resisting mandates, because we have the mandates now.  The mandate crowd won and where are we?  When does it end?

Edited September 8, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[Infidel Dog]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Sweden has had 1.13 million cases of Covid in a population of 10.23 million.

And Israel has had 1.1 million cases in a population of 9.1. The Swedish stat is also comparable to other European countries of a similar population. What's your point?

Let's check this out again, because you appear to have missed it the first time.

Here's Sweden - New Cases:

Here's Israel - New Cases

Here's Sweden - Daily Deaths

Here's Israel Daily Deaths:

So again, what's your point. Liberty Daily's point was that Sweden - a country that never imposed mask mandates or lockdowns was so worried about the radical spike in covid cases and deaths in  Israel - a country that did have mask mandates and lockdowns that on Monday of this week Sweden banned Israeli travelers from entering Sweden. Vaccinated and unvaccinated. 

As you  can see they had reason to. So one more time, what's your freaking point?

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

So he was saying Swedish people have a herd immunity because so many have had covid.

A little bit of hyperbole maybe. Maybe not. I don't know if they've met the target yet and neither do you. 

I do know this. Sweden's stated purpose of avoiding mandates and lockdowns was their medical advisors had advised them that was the way to achieve herd immunity. Have they done it yet? I don't know. They seem to be on the way though.

[Infidel Dog]

If they have achieved herd immunity or are on their way though, they're most likely being reasonable by banning a country like Israel with a noticeable spike in cases from a new variant.