Canadian Framers

[Dougie93]

in terms of the taxes in Canada, they're really not that high on the world perspective

the taxes are much higher in Europe

the cost of living increases in Canada are not imposed on the wealthy by taxation

quite the opposite, the wealthy drive the prices of everything up, which is a tax upon the poor

there's only one option, and that is to amass enough capital to afford Canada

since Canada is not a republic, there is no public rule, so the public is not your problem

take responsibility for your own life, the government is not your mom, the government is actually evil

[Queenmandy85]

If you want good government, you need to elect good people. Once you get them elected, you have to support them because in the last 50 years, the job has become so gruelling from abuse, good people will not put themselves through that. It begins with your riding association. Stay involved with your party. Support your candidates. Remember, Politics is supposed to be fun.

[Dougie93]

for example, the highest marginal tax rate in 1981 was 70%

now the highest marginal tax rate is 33%

so Canada is charging less than half as much gross tax as it used to

the reason is, nothing is actually being funded by taxes, taxes have become a scam on the middle classes

the rich don't pay that tax and neither do the poor, just the chumps of the middle class propping the government up

instead, everything is funded by selling Canada's debt on the international bond markets

really the tax is upon your children & grandchildren, Canadians are taxing future Canadians in the now

but since I don't have children, problem solved

I suppose our niece will have to deal with it, but she will inherent my estate, so she will just have to parley that

[myata]

And very obviously, it's not about partisan, which party, candidates etc the old and pointless adage as for a worker the boss for MPs, PMO only the latter get lifetime pensions only difference. As in election reform, the Conservatives were the first ones in arms against any change even theoretically. Nope, the two will be the last ones who would need to change anything, for them it's working perfectly: free run with no checks or accountability;  in the worst case, slap on the wrist, timeout and back to governing. No independent attorneys or inquiries, could it get any better?

Now add in the mix the population that didn't care 200 years back and has not started since. Here, the landscape. How would it work out in this century, with fierce worldwide competition? only one way to find out.

Edited June 21, 2021 by myata

[Dougie93]

it really is a simple calculation

how much capital am I amassing from my Canadian assets

versus how much "tax" are these criminals in Ottawa scamming me for

and actually, because the wealthy are driving the prices up, my net profits are still quite robust

compared to a place like Norway for example, getting scammed by the Canadian government is not so bad

[Dougie93]

24 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

If you want good government, you need to elect good people. Once you get them elected, you have to support them because in the last 50 years, the job has become so gruelling from abuse, good people will not put themselves through that. It begins with your riding association. Stay involved with your party. Support your candidates. Remember, Politics is supposed to be fun.

anyone so naive deserves their fate in the end

free your mind and your ass will follow

if not, you will get badly burned by the scam that is Canadian Confederation

but since it's not a republic, that's nobody's problem but your own

[Dougie93]

that is the one great advantage of Canada

it's not a republic, it's not even a country

it's just a remnant of the British Empire

which means Canada is literally not my problem

there is no public rule here, this is a monarchy, I do not rule here, I don't even own my land, I merely free hold

Elizabeth Windsor rules here, Elizabeth Windsor owns all the land

Canada is by definition Elizabeth Windsor's problem

if Her Majesty can't be bothered to come out and say that Her MP's are a cabal of criminally disloyal traitors ?

well I can't help Her then, I can't save Her from Herself

Edited June 21, 2021 by Dougie93

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, myata said:

1. Mostly, because from the start the system was not built by the citizens for the citizens but from the top down.

2. Now, decades on, it is becoming clear that there is neither the will nor the mechanisms for any significant change.

3. It wasn't made to change and adapt from the start and never tried it in earnest.

4. For regular folk there's no point in participating because everyone knows that it'll end up in talk and nothing will change (election reform, but hurray! we have cannabis). This is a serious problem and not hard to predict that it'll lead to more serious ones.

5. To who for example, you compare when saying "OK"? T 

1.  Well, I disagree.  It was "built", essentially, by the Americans on top of previous systems.  It was built to have government accountable to a "public".  

2. "Significant" is subjective.  All aspects of government have changed significantly over the centuries.

3. The saying that comes to mind is "perfect is the enemy of good".  

4. I'm pretty sure that the cannabis issue is more important than election reform to a significant number of voters.  You need to separate what you think needs to change from what other stakeholders such as other citizens with different viewpoints, from the business community, and from government itself.   

5. So... I just googled % vaccinated and came up on the NY Times page for vaccinations/100 people and Canada was 3rd in the G7.  16th overall.  I think that's ok.

[myata]

Of course that skill of wink-wink compromise may very well be unique in the world. Think of a two-party rule, for ever. Or three monopolies in telecommunications. While working in Europe, in some countries I paid under $10 for mobile and land Internet together, and with higher capacity.

Now, government bureaucrat played golf with CEO what's CRTC budget? plus lifetime pensions. And CEO got a multi-million bonus. Everybody happy, life is good!

Wait but what did it do to the rates? Taxpayer paid the bonus, the budget and the pensions. And x10 for the less service with constant every 6 months on the clock rate hikes. Oh no such a difficult problem, busy-busy looking no luck so far sorry.

The company is used to monopolistic profits and lazy business practices, unlike peers that go worldwide and manage to provide great service for affordable price. Next market hiccup guess guess who would be lining up to the government friends for a bailout like it never happened (Bombardier, SNC, Nortel)?

I already commented on the priorities - not many care about the theater if ever did. Cannabis can give high, electoral system like politicians talking like it's going to happen. Two puppet monsters punching each other for the show plus the hockey night forever.

And about vaccinations we'll talk around next year: busy action is not necessarily the same as the result. Remember, the rates?

[Michael Hardner]

6 minutes ago, myata said:

Of course that ...

I think that while I care about your general assessment, your examples aren't quite to my liking.  

[Army Guy]

6 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

How do you do that unless you have total segregation between the genders in the Forces and the RCMP? They have been trying to deal with this crisis for over a decade without success.

How do you get the kind of oversight you are calling for without putting the country under a crushing burden of even more bureaucracy. Where ever you have billions of dollars being spent, you will attract pirates. To mitigate that, you need to protect the cash with red tape. Governments and taxpayers can only endure a certain level of red tape.

We need to ensure government can function efficiently. We have seen the need for this in the pandemic. In the aftermath, we will find money has been mis-spent, but had the governments at all levels not been able to react as rapidly as they did, many more lives would have been lost. Having a layer of bean-counters second guessing everything the governments did, we would have have a worse disaster on our hands.

One of the main reasons that DND and RCMP and any government dept, (because this is not limited to just DND, RCMP this problem is Canada wide and is not addressed nationally ) Is government meddling and wanting to keep those graphs looking good in someone office, how did they do that, well one they lowered Physical and mental standards to attract more women, not just a little but a lot, This divide is part of the problem, selected recruitment is another the targeting of racial women over anyone creates another divide, select promotion or advancement/ career courses  because there is not enough females in leadership positions...and they don't hide any of this , they outright tell everyone, your the wrong sex, or color/ religion... it is outright racist policies... another divide

Don't get me wrong it has worked on both sides of the sexes, and their are lots of women who meet or exceed given standards... but is more common for a number of women to get ahead because the system is rigged, women that do not deserve that promotion. i would also note that men that also do not met standards, "But" with retention numbers hard to come by they are kept ..., DND losses a lot of very experienced people tired of carrying the extra load.. with numbers below acceptable levels , large groups of members are deemed NOT Deployable, meaning those that work hard and are fit, carry the load. while the others skate by,  But wait there is more you can not penalize those non deployable people we might hurt someone feelings...so they are getting promoted at the same pace or faster than those that are doing all the work... lots of unfit people in DND some over 350 lbs, once again you can not judge because they are as round as they are tall and can't lift there own weight, try and move a man this big that has been wounded off the battle field when your not fit...

All of these government programs that are forced on DND and RCMP have created many different tiers of soldiers, all treated equally but the work is not divided equally and these tiers create more division.. 

I have soldiered with some incredible women during my career, I've seen a 140 lb female medic grab 3 soldiers in total, one at a time each weighing well over 200 lbs with battle gear and weapons, under horrific enemy fire. She sprinted with this heavy load, bullets are an incredible motivator,  bringing each one to safety after they had been wounded. once they were safe she treated them providing life saving medical help...She proved that day that one did not have to be a man to soldier, but she easily exceeded those standards set by our government. These old Standards are proven to save lives but they are lowered to make a graph in someone office look good. 

Recruitment should be done based on meeting tough standards a one  those that can pass are recruited those that don't, see ya, The battlefield does not care if you are weaker, or could not meet standards they will take your life and everyone's less.  

And then we act shocked when the media gets ahold of it and runs with it, or a female judge rights a slashing report...once these divisions fall apart and men or women sexually harass or assault female soldiers, or racially different or have different religions... i wonder why, more oversite you say, it is government oversite that create this monster...

 

[Queenmandy85]

4 hours ago, myata said:

And these considerations however looked upon cannot be ignored. Canada used to mean expensive government, high taxes good healthcare, a chance to have nice own place, good social net. Now own place goes out the window, healthcare is better in the US and Europe, raising costs of aging population and outrageously expensive bureaucracy must be paid up but how and by who? There's little innovation in continuous education, worldwide competition in information economy is fierce and the cost of public services goes up by the day no matter what happening in the real economy. Will the best still choose Canada or other jurisdictions? Will massive immigration with the hope they'll find good jobs and there will be enough taxes for everything work or be a Ponzi scheme that will be unsustainable; or add more strain on already stressed system?

Again there's no way to plan and predict we haven't created any tools for that so can only wait and find out.

The voters have been forcing taxes ever lower and that is why healthcare and education is starving. 

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The voters have been forcing taxes ever lower and that is why healthcare and education is starving. 

Healthcare - where the nurses union had a hissy about the fact that volunteers were doing work that could be done by union members making $70K/yr with benefits like "2 paid sick days/month" etc. 

If our PM would have started fighting covid with any intelligence at all, back when every other world leader was running circles around him, we could have saved enough money on covid to put everyone in Canada through university. 

[myata]

Sure one may not like the reality, and many of us wouldn't. And it's not going to change it one bit, and it (the reality) will always have the last laugh. Adding layers of expensive bureaucracy (CRTC, "fix healthcare for generation", child poverty you name it) costs ever more without fixing real problems - only extending bureaucratic action into never-ending blackholish adage. Why would it? When was the last time it (the bureaucracy) was evaluated on the result rather than funding it absorbed? Funding doesn't equal the result. Even busy-busy action for the sake of action does not guarantee to produce results. Like it's any revelation, 160 years on.

And we haven't invented anything else. And by this stage no significant change is possible ("such a can of worms"). Now let's see how it'll work out in this age and this century. Dinosaurs were cute but I don't really have much sympathy to their fate. It's only the evolution. The buck will run out.

[Queenmandy85]

If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.

[deacon]

From the day they are elected, the primary focus of every MP, of every party, is to get re-elected the next time. Everything takes a back seat to this.

[myata]

15 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it.

How would one know it's not though? By accurate measurement and comparing with the best practices? Or when the deficits are through the roof, and there's no budget to sustain ever more expensive politics, public service, quality healthcare (already?), quality education and "jobs" by monopolistic and lazy enterprise? And then, at that moment something would happen magically?

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, myata said:

1. When was the last time it (the bureaucracy) was evaluated on the result rather than funding it absorbed? Funding doesn't equal the result. Even busy-busy action for the sake of action does not guarantee to produce results.  

2. And we haven't invented anything else. And by this stage no significant change is possible ("such a can of worms"). Now let's see how it'll work out in this age and this century. Dinosaurs were cute but I don't really have much sympathy to their fate. It's only the evolution. The buck will run out.

1. By using the 'passive voice' here, you are pretty obviously excusing the public.  It's the public that is charged with evaluating end results.

2. Inventions are tied to our means of communicating.

[myata]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. By using the 'passive voice' here, you are pretty obviously excusing the public.  It's the public that is charged with evaluating end results.

Back to the origins of functional democracy. It cannot be given or inherited, only created, constructed with hand and mind to the process. And that process of conscious construction of democracy, that includes effective, efficient and independent functions and institutions has not happened as yet. Can it still happen, this late in the lifecycle? Anybody's guess. But without these means, functions and institutions the public is voiceless and powerless.

[Moonlight Graham]

On 6/21/2021 at 1:27 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

If you want good government, you need to elect good people. Once you get them elected, you have to support them because in the last 50 years, the job has become so gruelling from abuse, good people will not put themselves through that. It begins with your riding association. Stay involved with your party. Support your candidates. Remember, Politics is supposed to be fun.

I think you need good institutions, because you're not always going to get good people in government.  You need strong oversight of wrongdoing, and accountability for those who do wrong.  This is true for any people in positions of power.  The American framers knew not to trust government and to check and balance its power, because a lot of people in any government are a-holes, and power corrupts.

[Moonlight Graham]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. By using the 'passive voice' here, you are pretty obviously excusing the public.  It's the public that is charged with evaluating end results.

What if the public only has 2 or 3 choices, and they're all rotten.  Then we're screwed.

[Argus]

On 6/21/2021 at 5:30 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

The voters have been forcing taxes ever lower and that is why healthcare and education is starving. 

Hmm. No. Our spending on both education and health care is right up there with European countries. I think both suffer from enormous inefficiencies, in part because we have a dozen different health and education departments running them.

Now the federal government has been paying a smaller and smaller share of health care over the years. It went from 50% when it set the system up to about 23% now. You notice any tax cuts from the federal government over the past thirty or forty years?

Edited June 22, 2021 by Argus

[myata]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

What if the public only has 2 or 3 choices, and they're all rotten.  Then we're screwed.

Not or, just two in the 99.9% of cases excluding Quebec. A two year old quickly learns to say na-na to an offer beans or porridge, can even struggle to say "gimme ice cream!" Sorry, an absolute no-no in a 160 years old democratic system. South, they have independent investigations. Sorry dear, no-no.

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

What if the public only has 2 or 3 choices, and they're all rotten.  Then we're screwed.

I see what you are saying, but maybe we can meet half-way and frame this issue as a lack of imagination on all sides at least.  In times of great change, those institutions and individuals who are tied to the old ways start to appear as those dinosaur skeletons in the atria of the museum.

I am posting not to defend government, but to weigh in on people who would claim that "the" public is not a factor in this.   We have a significant streak of narcissism in our culture, that allows bad politics and non-politics to persist.

But, yes.

[myata]

13 hours ago, Argus said:

Hmm. No. Our spending on both education and health care is right up there with European countries.

Does it ever occur to us anymore that just spending may not be enough? How to spend, and on what can be important too. Too bad, we used to know it but forgot.