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Do you believe in a divine Creator of the universe and everything in it, including mankind?


blackbird

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10 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

it's handy for atheists to believe so

that way they can feel an unearned sense of superiority

but it isn't

atheism is an ideology

your pedestal is imaginary

You do realise that simply saying a thing over and over again does not make it so, right?

What am I saying?  You're religious.  Of course you don't!

It's not an ideology.  I have no pedestal.  Any sense of superiority I have is earned. And it didn't take a lot of effort, really.

Edited by bcsapper
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Just now, bcsapper said:

You do realise that simply saying a thing over and over again does not make it so, right?

What am I saying?  You're religious.  Of course you don't!

It's not an ideology.  I have no pedestal.  Any sense of superioty I have is earned. And it didn't take a lot of effort, really.

you keep saying this

doesn't make it so

it is an ideology

your sense of superiority is unearned

and you're far more of a zealot for atheism than I am for Christianity

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3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

you keep saying this

doesn't make it so

it is an ideology

your sense of superiority is unearned

and you're far more of a zealot for atheism than I am for Christianity

See my post above^

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15 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Men picked and chose the content

that is editing

Learned men of God in the early centuries A.D. chose which books were inspired and which were not for the Bible because some writings had things in them contrary to for example the teachings of the Old Testament which had already existed for centuries.   Other books were rejected because they obviously conflicted with the other books of the Old Testament or conflicted with the Bible as a whole and the message it was conveying.  It was more a process of rejecting heretical books.  These were godly men who were led by the Holy Spirit. They did not choose the content of the books that made up the Bible.  Remember God chose fallible men on earth to convey his written revelation to mankind.  They were not angels, but they were believers that God chose for his work in the same way God has chosen men for various tasks down through the ages.  We read and study God's revelation and the Holy Spirit teaches us.  God uses the Holy Spirit to teach man through his written revelation.

Edited by blackbird
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47 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

As nature intended.  (Or God intended)

I guess it just depends on which god you want to follow, bcsapper. Some follow the mighty christian god known as Jehovah. Others may seek Allah or Krishna. Still others cling to the metaphor of a flying spaghetti monster. Their god kills too, with impunity.

Like that old British guy,

007

He had a licence

to kill

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1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

I guess it just depends on which god you want to follow, bcsapper. Some follow the mighty christian god known as Jehovah. Others may seek Allah or Krishna. Still others cling to the metaphor of a flying spaghetti monster. Their god kills too, with impunity.

Like that old British guy,

007

He had a licence

to kill

The Spaghetti Monster uses what, Type 2 diabetes?

Seems inefficient.

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2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

One doesn't need a defense.  One just needs to be sane and rational.  Like atheists.

There might be the occasional looney, of course.

The Bible condemns making marks on one's self, yet I see a lot of people covered with tatoos.  Is this a consequence of ignoring the teaching of God's word in schools and everywhere? Secular humanism (atheism) says everyone can do their own thing.  But the rest of us have to look at it in public places.   "28  Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD."  Leviticus 19:28 KJB

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Churches are being burned down and people are being hurt.  The Rebel Media is one of the few media outlets that are speaking out about this and has offered a reward for information.  Political leaders are saying very little against burning down churches.  The police and justice authorities are saying very little.  What are they actually doing? There is a lot of hate against Christianity in the world in general as Jesus said there would be, but this burning down places of worship is a special kind of hate that needs to be dealt with in Canada.

Edited by blackbird
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19 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Bible condemns making marks on one's self, yet I see a lot of people covered with tatoos.  Is this a consequence of ignoring the teaching of God's word in schools and everywhere? Secular humanism (atheism) says everyone can do their own thing.  But the rest of us have to look at it in public places.   "28  Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD."  Leviticus 19:28 KJB

Well, the Bible should not be an authority on anyone's behaviour unless they themselves choose to make it so.

By all means refrain from having tattoos.  I have none myself.  No piercings either.  Nothing to thank the Bible for there though.  I just don't like them.

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5 hours ago, blackbird said:

You are fabricating a narrative about where the Bible came from.   It was actually written by prophets and apostles who were inspired by God.  Almost all of the writers were Jewish prophets and they wrote what they were inspired to write.  There are I think 66 books of the Bible by various authors.  The King James Version is based upon the received text and is therefore God's inspired Bible.  The Old Testament actually was the Hebrew Bible and was extremely carefully copied down through the ages in Hebrew.  Some of the Old Testament is historical that tells the history of man (Genesis).  The first number of books are historical which recount the history of Israel as Israel was/is God's chosen people. The whole Bible is God's revelation to man.  The truth of the Bible is verified by the miraculous events which were recorded by eye witnesses.  The most important event was the resurrection of Jesus Christ who was seen by eye witnesses after the resurrection.  This means what Jesus said while on earth is factual and he is God as he taught.   Someone who raised the dead and was himself raised from the dead in no small matter.   It is what God considered important to say to mankind.  I don't think you know anything about it and are just throwing out bull crap.

Here we go again...The truth of the Bible is verified by the miraculous events which were recorded by eye witnesses.  The most important event was the resurrection of Jesus Christ who was seen by eye witnesses how the phuk is that evidence it is written words with no way to corroborate it being true....where in the hell is your hard evidences

 The burden of proof does not rest upon the skeptic in this matter. As always is the case, the burden of proof weighs upon those who assert that some thing or some process exists. If someone claims that he never has to shave because every morning before he can get to the bathroom he is assaulted by a six-foot rabbit with extremely sharp teeth who trims his whiskers better than a razor – if someone makes such a claim, no skeptic need worry about constructing a disproof. Unless evidence for the claim is produced, the skeptic can treat the claim as false. This is nothing more than sane, every-day practice.

Hard evidence is needed..hell you dont believe in evolution or fossil record both having a tremendous amount of hard evidence but you believe in a book of nonsense no hard evidence just words.

Religion tries to find hard evidence but fail like the great flood and Noah....religion pounced on fossils on top of mountains were proof that the world had flooded and the the fossils were from fish that died .Here comes science doing the hard work and showed that the fossils were from the sea bed that grew up to be our mountains where two or more of Earth's tectonic plates are pushed together. At these colliding, compressing boundaries, rocks and debris are warped and folded into rocky outcrops, hills, mountains, and entire mountain ranges

Religion is at a real disadvantage when they debate evolution or the bible,thats why they get their asses handed to them debating scientists....NO HARD EVIDENCE

 

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

 

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8 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

If science and religion are so incompatible then how come so many of the best scientists are religious?

Delusion, brainwashed as a child, their expertise is not related to evolution....

Remember the church is ruthless, nonbelievers were tortured by hideous devices, Persecution of Scientists from Galileo to Turing

Your arguments are weak

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5 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Well, the Bible should not be an authority on anyone's behaviour unless they themselves choose to make it so.

By all means refrain from having tattoos.  I have none myself.  No piercings either.  Nothing to thank the Bible for there though.  I just don't like them.

Oh!  Then why is it illegal to walk out in public naked exposing yourself?  Isn't swearing in a public place actually illegal?  Behaviour is a word that could included anything.  I'm sure there is a long list of things under the title behaviour that would be illegal.  And lots of things that are illegal behaviour actually come from the Bible, like stealing, killing, and harming other people.  Afraid you lost badly on that claim.

Edited by blackbird
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31 minutes ago, Antichrist said:

Here we go again...The truth of the Bible is verified by the miraculous events which were recorded by eye witnesses.  The most important event was the resurrection of Jesus Christ who was seen by eye witnesses how the phuk is that evidence it is written words with no way to corroborate it being true....where in the hell is your hard evidences

 The burden of proof does not rest upon the skeptic in this matter. As always is the case, the burden of proof weighs upon those who assert that some thing or some process exists. If someone claims that he never has to shave because every morning before he can get to the bathroom he is assaulted by a six-foot rabbit with extremely sharp teeth who trims his whiskers better than a razor – if someone makes such a claim, no skeptic need worry about constructing a disproof. Unless evidence for the claim is produced, the skeptic can treat the claim as false. This is nothing more than sane, every-day practice.

Hard evidence is needed..hell you dont believe in evolution or fossil record both having a tremendous amount of hard evidence but you believe in a book of nonsense no hard evidence just words.

Religion tries to find hard evidence but fail like the great flood and Noah....religion pounced on fossils on top of mountains were proof that the world had flooded and the the fossils were from fish that died .Here comes science doing the hard work and showed that the fossils were from the sea bed that grew up to be our mountains where two or more of Earth's tectonic plates are pushed together. At these colliding, compressing boundaries, rocks and debris are warped and folded into rocky outcrops, hills, mountains, and entire mountain ranges

Religion is at a real disadvantage when they debate evolution or the bible,thats why they get their asses handed to them debating scientists....NO HARD EVIDENCE

 

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

 

All events and facts of history are written down accounts of witnesses.  That is just a fact of life.  Courts of law accept it especially when there are multiple eye witnesses.  So why wouldn't you accept it with the Bible?

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54 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Oh!  Then why is it illegal to walk out in public naked exposing yourself?  Isn't swearing in a public place actually illegal?  Behaviour is a word that could included anything.  I'm sure there is a long list of things under the title behaviour that would be illegal.  And lots of things that are illegal behaviour actually come from the Bible, like stealing, killing, and harming other people.  Afraid you lost badly on that claim.

Because we have decided, as a society, that such behaviour is illegal.  It's not because of the Bible. 

Why is abortion not illegal?  Why is gay marriage not illegal?

Afraid you lost badly on that claim.

Edited by bcsapper
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6 hours ago, blackbird said:

Churches are being burned down and people are being hurt.  The Rebel Media is one of the few media outlets that are speaking out about this and has offered a reward for information.  Political leaders are saying very little against burning down churches.  The police and justice authorities are saying very little.  What are they actually doing? There is a lot of hate against Christianity in the world in general as Jesus said there would be, but this burning down places of worship is a special kind of hate that needs to be dealt with in Canada.

The idea is to deflect any blame away from the government of Canada.

Let the churches burn, let the people focus their hate on religious institutions. It furthers this governments anti-Canadian agenda.

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15 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The idea is to deflect any blame away from the government of Canada.

Let the churches burn, let the people focus their hate on religious institutions. It furthers this governments anti-Canadian agenda.

Some religious institutions.  You better be really picky about that.

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1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

Burning churchesvis arson, just like tearing down statues is vandalism.

And the people responsible should be held responsible, if found.  I get the anger/frustration/grief that drives these actions, but it's still wrong.  

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18 minutes ago, dialamah said:

And the people responsible should be held responsible, if found.  I get the anger/frustration/grief that drives these actions, but it's still wrong.  

Too bad you are not the governments and security forces that should be involved. Nothing but silence, acquiescence and apologies.

 

Edited by OftenWrong
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2 hours ago, blackbird said:

All events and facts of history are written down accounts of witnesses.  That is just a fact of life.  Courts of law accept it especially when there are multiple eye witnesses.  So why wouldn't you accept it with the Bible?

The first problem we encounter when trying to discover more about the Historical Jesus is the lack of early sources. The earliest sources only reference the clearly fictional Christ of Faith. These early sources, compiled decades after the alleged events, all stem from Christian authors eager to promote Christianity – which gives us reason to question them. The authors of the Gospels fail to name themselves, describe their qualifications, or show any criticism with their foundational sources – which they also fail to identify. Filled with mythical and non-historical information, and heavily edited over time, the Gospels certainly should not convince critics to trust even the more mundane claims made therein. 

The witnesses of the bible are just as fictional as the bible 

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7 hours ago, blackbird said:

Churches are being burned down and people are being hurt.  The Rebel Media is one of the few media outlets that are speaking out about this and has offered a reward for information.  Political leaders are saying very little against burning down churches.  The police and justice authorities are saying very little.  What are they actually doing? There is a lot of hate against Christianity in the world in general as Jesus said there would be, but this burning down places of worship is a special kind of hate that needs to be dealt with in Canada.

Religion brings this hate upon themselves

sodomizing children.... church's wealth as their flock suffers...thousands of children under care of the church found in unmarked graves 

Good radiance to these evil cults and their house of worship

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1 hour ago, Antichrist said:

The first problem we encounter when trying to discover more about the Historical Jesus is the lack of early sources. The earliest sources only reference the clearly fictional Christ of Faith. These early sources, compiled decades after the alleged events, all stem from Christian authors eager to promote Christianity – which gives us reason to question them. The authors of the Gospels fail to name themselves, describe their qualifications, or show any criticism with their foundational sources – which they also fail to identify. Filled with mythical and non-historical information, and heavily edited over time, the Gospels certainly should not convince critics to trust even the more mundane claims made therein. 

The witnesses of the bible are just as fictional as the bible 

 There were non-biblical sources.  Probably one of the most well known was Josephus, a Jewish historian, who lived around the time of Christ.

Quote:

4. Flavius Josephus

A Jewish historian, became a Pharisee at age 19; in A.D. 66 he was the commander of Jewish forces in Galilee. After being captured, he was attached to the Roman headquarters. There are three valuable references for New Testament students. One (Antiquities xviii. 5) describes John the Baptist just as the Gospels do. The second (Antiquities xx. 9) describes the death of James:

(Ananus [Ananias]) convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus, who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned.

The reference to Jesus being the brother of James fits the New Testament data, but that Jesus is further identified as the Christ is remarkable in light of the following quotation from Josephus. Here He is already called the “Christ,” i.e., the Messiah.

The third excerpt from Josephus is of special interest because of what it says about Jesus:

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day.” (Antiquities xviii. 33)

Jesus is called a wise “man” (hinting that he might be more than a man), did wonderful works, was a great teacher, was the Messiah, was condemned by Pilate (at the instigation of the Jews), rose from dead on the third day (in fulfillment of the Old Testament), and a movement of “Christians” continued at the time of Josephus’ writing.

Value: This is the strongest corroboration of the resurrection of Jesus and his mission outside of the New Testament documents.   Unquote   Historical References to Christ From Non-Biblical Authors | Free Thinking Ministries

There are several other historical figures that are described in this article.

Of course anyone who saw the miracles that Jesus performed while on earth and then saw him after his resurrection would be "eager to promote Christ".  Because that is something worth promoting.  They put their lives on the line and some died for the faith.  People do not promote something they know is false, but when they know something is true, of course they would promote and support it with all their strength.  

Your claim that the Bible is heavily edited is nonsense.  The King James Bible is based on the Hebrew manuscripts for the O.T. and the Received Text for the New Testament.  These are the majority Greek manuscripts from the early centuries.  About 5,000 early Greek manuscripts or parts of manuscripts were preserved down through the centuries.  The only edited Bibles are the corrupt modern translations which were produced in the last 150 years.  They are based more on the corrupt Sinaiticus and Vaticanus manuscripts.

The four writers of the four gospels are Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.  These are traditionally believed to be the writers of the four gospels.  If you are looking for forensic evidence, I don't know if there is any that would fit a legal definition and is not considered a requirement for the past 1,900 years.

1937933800_gospelwriters.thumb.jpg.00532acec582f0a151bb374096dd49e5.jpg1937933800_gospelwriters.thumb.jpg.00532acec582f0a151bb374096dd49e5.jpg 

The Bible Journey | Who wrote the Gospels?

Edited by blackbird
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11 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You can always tell when someone's on their phone...

Kind of like the head of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association who apparently tweeted "burn them down".  She is under heavy fire from government and other sources.  Doubt she will keep her position in an organization like that.  I'm pretty sure she just ended her career in that position.  Many people have lost high-ranking positions for saying a lot less.

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4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Kind of like the head of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association who apparently tweeted "burn them down".  She is under heavy fire from government and other sources.  Doubt she will keep her position in an organization like that.  I'm pretty sure she just ended her career in that position.  Many people have lost high-ranking positions for saying a lot less.

Eh?

No, I meant that the poster had apparently had the word "riddance" changed to "radiance" by a spelling corrector.

The head of the BC CLA should lose her position immediately, if what you say here is true.  There can be no compromise on that.

Edited by bcsapper
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