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Do you believe in a divine Creator of the universe and everything in it, including mankind?


blackbird

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11 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I read your post which I believe have summarized the articles. 

I have been to a number of bible studies in my student life and I was never convinced beyond reasonable doubt or even close to beyond reasonable doubt to be of any kind of proof.

So assuming your legend on Adam and Eve is indeed true. You justified many sufferings in the world for what Adam and Eve did!!!!!!!! Why should billions of their children pay a price for their sin or mistake if they committed it. If true then it represents God as revengeful and unmerciful,  I don't believe this is true.

My understanding of the Bible is that Adam and Eve, as our first parents were representative of their descendents, the human race.  They rebelled against God by eating the forbidden fruit and fell from their previous relationship with God.  They were tempted by the serpent (Satan) and fell for it.  Consequently they received a corrupt, fallen nature as a result of their rebellion.  As a result every descendent receives this same corrupt fallen nature.  But we also have free will.  Man's nature being corrupt and evil, often chooses to do evil.  God could have chosen to create robots, but what would be the point of that?  He gave man a free will.  Man chooses to do evil, not God.  But God sent his Son to pay for man's sin and by his mercy, offers grace to fallen man to be forgiven.  It is up to you and each individual to accept God's offer of free grace and be forgiven.   That doesn't sound like a revengeful or unmerciful God to me.   God is full of mercy and ready to forgive, but each individual must take the step of faith to believe in his Son and his sacrifice for sins.

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On 4/24/2022 at 9:55 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Why should billions of their children pay a price for their sin or mistake if they committed it.

It's a good question. Why god? The eternal why. Hard to second-guess the almighty.

Or rather, how many universes have you created lately, and are they any better than this.

...

it seems curious that those who do not believe in god, who may call themselves atheists are more willing to believe that reality is a computer simulation. We are scripts running in a 4-D video game on a supercomputer and the universe is actually a database.

This is not far off from certain modern cosmological theories about reality. They postulate that reality might be a simulation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis#In_physics

"Economist Robin Hanson argues a self-interested occupant of a high-fidelity simulation should strive to be entertaining and praiseworthy in order to avoid being turned off or being shunted into a non-conscious low-fidelity part of the simulation."

A pretty good argument for morality.

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10 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

it seems curious that those who do not believe in god, who may call themselves atheists are more willing to believe that reality is a computer simulation.

A computer generated life is sure sure easier to believe than some guy in the sky God who wants to die for us.

How stupid do believers want to be?

Regards

DL

 

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9 hours ago, French Patriot said:

How stupid do believers want to be?

Nice. By same token, computers are a thing made. They didnt exist until the modern era. For thousands of years, nobody even knew what a computer was. Somebody had to invent one first.

Unless you believe computers can spontaneously assemble and program themselves.

 

 

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13 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Nice. By same token, computers are a thing made. They didnt exist until the modern era. For thousands of years, nobody even knew what a computer was. Somebody had to invent one first.

Unless you believe computers can spontaneously assemble and program themselves.

 

 

No.

I am not into spontaneous existence from nothing.

I am not a brain dead theist.

I can say, I don't know, to something instead of lying about a thing I cannot possibly know about. Like a supernatural God.

Regards

DL 

 

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On 3/15/2021 at 5:37 PM, blackbird said:

The evidence is all around us that the complex, intricate universe required a divine Creator to design and create it, as recorded in Genesis of the Bible.  Yet we are told by much of the secular world that the theory of evolution and the big bang theory are facts.  This is fed to our youth in the public school system and is taken as unquestionable fact.  When we look at the complexity of the universe, consider the atomic particles, and the laws of physics that govern their motion and actions, it is clear that it required an infinitely powerful Creator to design and create it.  We are told it is all a cosmic accident that just happened out of the blue.   Somehow it seems that people like Richard Dawkins, the famous atheist who wrote the God Delusion, missed some very basic evidence for a Creator.  Simple physics like gravity, the very existence of electrons, neutrons, protons, and their iron-clad laws that control them cannot be explained apart from an infinitely powerful Designer/Creator of the universe.  We are told that mankind somehow evolved out of the slime in a pond.  Yet man and all the creatures contain infinitely complex chromosomes that determine characteristics of the living creature.  We are told this was all an accident or evolved somehow.  It takes far more blind acceptance of an irrational theory that has no evidence, and no basis to believe it.  Supposedly it all just happened by some kind of cosmic accident.   In order to accept the theory of evolution and the big bang theory (which incidentally still does not explain where it all came from or how it started), one has to set their reasoning aside.  As for the Big Bang theory, an explosion always creates disorder, not order.  The universe is orderly.  One would have to accept that such things as love of humans for their family, children, pets, etc. is all just a chemical reaction.  Another thing to consider is all the good and evil in the world.  If there is no God, then there is no meaning in life and there is no justice for all the evil.  The existence of the world has to point to an ultimate accounting or justice.  Otherwise it is a free-for-all of everyone just taking whatever they can get for themselves out of the world and no consequences for evil.  This is not rational.  There just has to be a Creator God who is infinitely powerful who will hold everyone accountable.  This is the only rational way that anything makes sense.  It is completely irrational to believe in the atheist idea.

 

Evolution is not against creation. They can go together.  They are billions of billions of factors precisely fine tuned so that one planet in the Universe comparatively smaller than the size of a microscopic item to earth can support life. This cannot be an accident. Everything does not come out of nothing.  Only nothing comes out of nothing. Earth was fine tuned with the vital ingredients over millions of years to develop and sustain life and life was evolved from microscopic form into more advance life form and humans.. Some suggest aliens created life on earth but then this starts a vicious circle as who created aliens!!!

There is a good chance there is a creator as some religions are suggesting. Though if true one can only rise to heaven through Christ. There is however no answer to this question. If there is indeed a God his inaction to sufferings around the world is inexcusable. The evil is ruling. The murderers and dictators stay in power. Plenty of murder and rape takes place and most are getting away from punishment. Too many sick and hungry in the world and too much pain, hunger disease and sufferings. Where is the kind and forgiving powerful God described in the holy books?

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13 hours ago, French Patriot said:

I can say, I don't know, to something instead of lying about a thing I cannot possibly know about.

Still there is no way to discuss

esoteric knowledge

without using some kind of metaphors.

Today our most advanced mathematicians have raised interesting ideas about reality, such has Hologram theory. This reality we are in is a hologram that originates from highly complex information on a 2-d sheet. This is essentially at the boundary of the universe. Outside the boundary of the universe there is a uniform energy source coming in all directions, and this creates the illusion, in our minds, of 3-d space.

I kid you not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

Try reading that while having your morning cocoa ...   ;)

Sounds like projector screen technology to me.

These people are serious.

Edited by OftenWrong
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On 4/28/2022 at 6:39 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Evolution is not against creation. They can go together.  They are billions of billions of factors precisely fine tuned so that one planet in the Universe comparatively smaller than the size of a microscopic item to earth can support life. This cannot be an accident. Everything does not come out of nothing.  Only nothing comes out of nothing. Earth was fine tuned with the vital ingredients over millions of years to develop and sustain life and life was evolved from microscopic form into more advance life form and humans.. Some suggest aliens created life on earth but then this starts a vicious circle as who created aliens!!!

There is a good chance there is a creator as some religions are suggesting. Though if true one can only rise to heaven through Christ. There is however no answer to this question. If there is indeed a God his inaction to sufferings around the world is inexcusable. The evil is ruling. The murderers and dictators stay in power. Plenty of murder and rape takes place and most are getting away from punishment. Too many sick and hungry in the world and too much pain, hunger disease and sufferings. Where is the kind and forgiving powerful God described in the holy books?

This article does answer your questions from a biblical or Christian point of view.

quote

I. What are the causes of suffering?

A. Sinful people cause some suffering directly (lying, anger, divorce, drugs, crime, etc.).

B. Sin causes suffering indirectly (because of sin this earth is corrupted, deteriorating, painful and evil – Genesis 3:14-19; 4:1-15; Romans 8:20-22).

C. Conclusion: God is not the cause of suffering; He is the author of good (James 1:13-17).

Some people conclude that since God made everything, He made evil too.

But St. Augustine’s reasoning seems to be correct:

1. God is the author of everything in the created universe.

2. Evil is not a thing or a substance; it is a privation or lack in things (blindness is lack of sight, pain is lack of health, hate or murder is lack of love).

3. Therefore God did not create evil.

II. Why doesn’t God end all evil immediately?

To end evil God would have to destroy the cause of evil – people. In His good plan for people (see below), it is therefore not good to end all evil immediately.

III. Why doesn’t God make people unable to cause suffering?

To do that, God would have to take away our ability to choose. But choice – free will – is a good thing. In order to love, you must be able to choose to love. Forced love is not love. So to have a universe that included love, God had to make us with choice, which includes the choice not to love – and that makes sin, evil, pain and suffering possible.

IV. Why does God allow natural disaster and disease?

It is a part of a sinful world. God lowered the perfection of creation (from the perfect garden of Eden) to match the spiritual state of those who live here (Romans 8:20-22). God graciously has sustained people on this earth (allowing them to reproduce, to develop governments and systems to deal with the effects of sin). He has graciously sustained the fallen creation (providing sun and rain for food to sustain life – Colossians 1:17). But the natural effect of a fallen creation is that even good things can have evil byproducts (water can drown someone; gravity can kill someone; lightening can burn and kill).

V. Why doesn’t God stop evil acts that cause innocent people to suffer?

Why doesn’t God miraculously intervene to stop evil acts if He is all-loving and all-powerful? Why doesn’t He catch the drunk driver’s car that is going to crash into a bus? Why doesn’t He deflect the murderer’s bullets? The person asking doesn’t actually want God to stop all their evil acts. They don’t want to be invisibly gagged every time they’re about to say something hurtful; they don’t want to stub their toe when they try to kick the dog. They just think it would be good if God stopped certain evil acts or just the evil acts of others. But that would make life impossible. There would be no freedoms, no regularity and no personal responsibility.

VI. Why doesn’t God let us choose to get out of this suffering?

The answer is that He does. That is the gracious, loving response of God to the evil condition of this sinful world.

A. God has provided for personal salvation – the promise of eternal life in heaven where there is no suffering (Revelation 21:4). One must simply put his trust in the payment for sin God provided through Christ’s death on the cross (John 3:16-18; Acts 10:38-43: etc.).

B. God has provided for the earth’s redemption (Romans 8:18-23; 2 Peter 3:10,13; Revelation 21:1).

VII. Why can’t we get out of this evil world of suffering immediately?

We don’t know why God’s timetable is what it is. We can see why He couldn’t deliver Adam and Eve immediately – God first had to provide redemption through Christ. The world continues today in part because there are more people yet that will come to have eternal salvation.

We do know that God is causing all things to work together for good to those who love God (Romans 8:28).

VIII. What are some good reasons for suffering?

A. It enables us to cope in a sinful world.

B. It teaches us to turn to God for solution.

C. It produces character improvement (holiness, maturity, etc. James 1:24) which in turn produces eternal rewards (crown of life – James 1:12).

D. It gives God the opportunity to show His grace, love and care for our sinful condition.

1. Pain can keep us from a greater physical evil. A burnt finger warns us to avoid worse danger.

2. Pain can keep us from greater moral evil. A spanking does that.

1. For eternal deliverance from evil – Heaven

2. For temporal deliverance from evil – Safety or holiness

3. For spiritual strength to endure suffering (2 Cor. 12:7-10)

1. Through Christ’s life and death for our sake (Romans 5:6-8).

2. Through providing a place where there is no more suffering, sin or death (1 Corinthians 15:51-55; Revelation 21:4).

*Credit for many of the ideas in this study belongs to Dr. Norm Geisler    unquote

Why Is There Suffering? | Bible.org

It should be said that according to the Bible, the present age is only for a certain period of time.  Nobody is getting away with anything.  God will judge evil and will be returning to earth to establish his rule in his time.  So your concern that people are getting away with evil is unwarranted.  Nobody gets away with evil.  

Evolution and creation are contradictory points of view because Genesis in Ch1. of the Bible describe God creating the universe in six days.  There is no evolution.  Evolution has been debunked by countless articles and videos.  Check creation.com 

There has to be some certainly about things in life, the world, and the future and the KJ Bible brings that certainty.

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The theory of evolution is anti-science, anti-reason, and anti-God.  It is dogma and not based on science at all.  Here is a short video clip showing the complexity of the inner workings of a cell demonstrating the complexity of the most basic life form and showing it required an immensely intelligent designer-Creator.

Creatures Do Change But It's Not Evolution - 7-Day Streaming (creation.com)

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3 hours ago, blackbird said:

The theory of evolution is anti-science, anti-reason, and anti-God.  It is dogma and not based on science at all.  Here is a short video clip showing the complexity of the inner workings of a cell demonstrating the complexity of the most basic life form and showing it required an immensely intelligent designer-Creator.

Creatures Do Change But It's Not Evolution - 7-Day Streaming (creation.com)

Intelligent Design was thrown out of court by a qualified judge for lying.

Are you a better trained judge?

Regards

DL

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On 4/28/2022 at 6:39 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

If there is indeed a God his inaction to sufferings around the world is inexcusable. The evil is ruling. The murderers and dictators stay in power. Plenty of murder and rape takes place and most are getting away from punishment.

The pain and suffering is not caused by God, but rather by the separation of man and God. This is only for a time and then our spirit will return to God who made it. God's seeming inaction is to test who is fit to live in God's kingdom, and who must be kept out. You probably wouldn't be happy if you entered heaven, and found out that your closest neighbours were Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Charles Manson. God is not indifferent to the suffering of man, He actually chose to live as a man, suffering persecution, arrest, beatings and being executed by being nailed to a cross

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1 hour ago, Dowell said:

The pain and suffering is not caused by God, but rather by the separation of man and God. This is only for a time and then our spirit will return to God who made it. God's seeming inaction is to test who is fit to live in God's kingdom, and who must be kept out. You probably wouldn't be happy if you entered heaven, and found out that your closest neighbours were Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Charles Manson. God is not indifferent to the suffering of man, He actually chose to live as a man, suffering persecution, arrest, beatings and being executed by being nailed to a cross

Your response is completely unacceptable and comes out of religious fanatism.

I was  asking if God exists and is supposedly so powerful why he doesn't intervene when a defenseless girl is being raped by Russian soldiers or an unarmed teenage Iranian being shot into his/her heart on the order of an islamic clergy? Your response clearly indicates that God is indeed indifferent when he has the power to stop it and he choose not to. If I had the super ability I would have wasted the murderers and rapists all over the world without hesitation.

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I was  asking if God exists and is supposedly so powerful why he doesn't intervene when a defenseless girl is being raped by Russian soldiers or an unarmed teenage Iranian being shot into his/her heart on the order of an islamic clergy?

Matthew 13:24-30

Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.  But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.  When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them.  Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.

At the time of the harvest those who hurt others will face judgement, those who suffer without cause will be comforted.

 A woman giving birth to a child has pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish because of her joy that a child is born into the world. You see the pain, which will pass, but not the life with God that will not.

You think that all you see is all there is. It is not.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/

While no two NDEs are the same, there are characteristic features that are commonly observed in NDEs. These characteristics include a perception of seeing and hearing apart from the physical body, passing into or through a tunnel, encountering a mystical light, intense and generally positive emotions, a review of part or all of their prior life experiences, encountering deceased loved ones, and a choice to return to their earthly life.

Life with your loved ones in the presence of God for those who care for others, judgement for those who harm others.

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9 hours ago, Dowell said:

Life with your loved ones in the presence of God for those who care for others, judgement for those who harm others.

Judgement, from a satanic God, who seems to always kill and never cure, --- when he could just as easily cure,--- only a fool would have faith in.

What makes you think a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous god can judge justly?

Regards

DL

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12 hours ago, Dowell said:

Matthew 13:24-30

Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.  But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.  When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them.  Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.

At the time of the harvest those who hurt others will face judgement, those who suffer without cause will be comforted.

 A woman giving birth to a child has pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish because of her joy that a child is born into the world. You see the pain, which will pass, but not the life with God that will not.

You think that all you see is all there is. It is not.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/

While no two NDEs are the same, there are characteristic features that are commonly observed in NDEs. These characteristics include a perception of seeing and hearing apart from the physical body, passing into or through a tunnel, encountering a mystical light, intense and generally positive emotions, a review of part or all of their prior life experiences, encountering deceased loved ones, and a choice to return to their earthly life.

Life with your loved ones in the presence of God for those who care for others, judgement for those who harm others.

It does not answer the main question I brought forward likely because you have no answer.

 

 

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1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

It does not answer the main question I brought forward likely because you have no answer.

This is true. As Blood  Sweat and Tears put it.  I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.
Swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell, But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell. I hope that you find the answer that you wished for.

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I was going to write a brief to the House of Commons committee which is considering medical assistance in dying for the mentally ill, but I decided against it after composing the brief.  They have a system where they accept briefs or letters from individuals up until a certain date, only a few days from now.  It is in it's third reading and looks like it is going through.  But I realized my name would be on record and the people in the committee and government are not trustworthy as they are most likely secular humanists and anti-God and anti-bible.  Therefore, since my letter would be Bible-based, and argue what I believe God thinks about it all, it would be like sending a letter to a bunch of wackos, people hostile to righteousness and biblical values.  Not a wise idea.  I don't see any possibility any good could come of it.  Existing legislation and policy proves the government is anti-God and anti-Christian.  The PM proves almost daily they have no use or respect for Judeo-Christian values.  So I don't see any use of trying to deal with them.  I don't see much hope for the future of this country.  It is on a downward spiral.  God calls individuals out of the world to become his sons and daughters and be not a part of this evil world system.

Edited by blackbird
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22 hours ago, blackbird said:

I was going to write a brief to the House of Commons committee which is considering medical assistance in dying for the mentally ill, but I decided against it after composing the brief.  They have a system where they accept briefs or letters from individuals up until a certain date, only a few days from now.  It is in it's third reading and looks like it is going through.  But I realized my name would be on record and the people in the committee and government are not trustworthy as they are most likely secular humanists and anti-God and anti-bible.  Therefore, since my letter would be Bible-based, and argue what I believe God thinks about it all, it would be like sending a letter to a bunch of wackos, people hostile to righteousness and biblical values.  Not a wise idea.  I don't see any possibility any good could come of it.  Existing legislation and policy proves the government is anti-God and anti-Christian.  The PM proves almost daily they have no use or respect for Judeo-Christian values.  So I don't see any use of trying to deal with them.  I don't see much hope for the future of this country.  It is on a downward spiral.  God calls individuals out of the world to become his sons and daughters and be not a part of this evil world system.

I always like to point out that the problem of evil is insurmountable. If there is a god, then we are all in deep trouble because it is an evil being and want's us to suffer.

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21 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Why should it be what your god thinks, and not someone else’s god?  

Because the God of the Bible is the true God and has been the main religion of the western world for centuries.  Other religions are the main religions of other countries, like Hinduism in India, Buddhism in southeast Asia, Islam in the middle east, and part of Africa.  One must actually study the Bible and the differences between the religions if he wants to know what it is all about.  It is nothing I can explain in detail on here.  Google will also explain it.  I have tried to explain some things from time to time on here but it usually doesn't convince anyone.  One must be truly interested in learning and use a search engine to find information.  

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22 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Why should it be what your god thinks, and not someone else’s god?  

 God has stated "thou shalt not kill".  This is also a self-evident truth that has been universally believed down through the ages.  One does not have to believe in the God of the Bible to understand that commandment and agree with it.  It's common sense.

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