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This is now very little ability to disagree with the Left


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26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Hey it's your ideology on display here bud, own it.

You are the kind of person always looking for the alternative however as Old Churchill says it: ‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.".

There is no alternative, only communism and fascism under the rule of a group mob. We have to learn to be content with what we have and better ourselves first.

Edited by Independent1986
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1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Rebel media has it's flaws, but it's still better than CTV and CBC combined. At least they're not outright liars.

Oh please, two different sides of the same coin. A propaganda machine to brainwash a different sector of the population and making money on division

We are just markets to 99% in the press, they don't care one bit about the individual out there, they want people to be angry at each other so they can sell their paper because people in fear will always run to where is comfortable. 

Not sure when and what happened with the media but try watching some news reports from 90's and 80's and then turn on CNN and MSNBC or Fox on the other side. You will see the contrast. 

Edited by Independent1986
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8 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

There is no alternative, only communism and fascism under the rule of a group mob.

But I thought the hallmarks of communism were rule by dictator? In any case you're effectively saying no mob can even rise to the level of a group.  You also just wrote off democracy btw - just another mob doomed to communism.

I fail to see why you're not a dyed-in-the-wool anarchist given your bleak assessment of humanity's inescapable fate. I'd sooner put ourselves out of our misery and let tardigrades have a go at it.

 

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33 minutes ago, eyeball said:

But I thought the hallmarks of communism were rule by dictator? In any case you're effectively saying no mob can even rise to the level of a group.  You also just wrote off democracy btw - just another mob doomed to communism.

The mob rule/group thinking always leads to a dictator because each individual is unique and is hard to maintain the structure of it unless force is used.

Democracy and capitalism allows for the individual to focus on himself and that's why is a success for millions of people.

Edited by Independent1986
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6 hours ago, eyeball said:

But I thought the hallmarks of communism were rule by dictator?  

No, it's democratic socialism that's coming.  The fact that some have been paranoid about it since 1980 doesn't mean it's actually been at risk of coming to pass since then.

I think that the populist right trying to disown the trade globalism that they instigated should be more of a hint to people...

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14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Otherwise known as the "populist left", as in universal healthcare (e.g. Tommy Douglas), labour unions, government funded abortions, subsidized child care, welfare payments, etc.

Yes... the left will soon dump their shrill academics and once again start scouting for their Huey Longs, Lyndon Johnsons, FDRs... 

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15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Otherwise known as the "populist left", as in universal healthcare (e.g. Tommy Douglas), labour unions, government funded abortions, subsidized child care, welfare payments, etc.

4 day work week, living wage, universal wage supplement , subsidized dental care, public transportation...  the list goes on.  it doesn't matter, as it's wouldn't be Marxism - just a more generous liberal model.  This is why the actual 'left' knows that Communism is a dead horse - the machine can simply trickle down a little more if the times require it.

Me, I'm a conservative, so I am simply watching events unfold.  I have no horse in the American race (you taught me to pay less attention there) but the winds of change tend to blow north.

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52 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

4 day work week, living wage, universal wage supplement , subsidized dental care, public transportation...  the list goes on.  it doesn't matter, as it's wouldn't be Marxism - just a more generous liberal model. 

 

That's fine, but the term "populist right" is used as a disparaging term, when populism has had wide appeal for the entire political spectrum.    The "greatest Canadian" was a populist.

 

Quote

Me, I'm a conservative, so I am simply watching events unfold.  I have no horse in the American race (you taught me to pay less attention there) but the winds of change tend to blow north.

 

Well, having children will tend do that....priorities over politics.  If you are more open minded about the expression of varying views without impediment, welcome to the club.

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When I hear people talking about socialism is like someone that is an alcoholic talking about drinking moderately but we all know where it ends up at the end because is never enough.

How can you be a fiscal conservative and agree with this ? 4 days work week you hear this, which lazy professor came up with this idea ? I guess the new generation needs more free time to go out and take statues down.

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1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1. That's fine, but the term "populist right" is used as a disparaging term,
2. when populism has had wide appeal for the entire political spectrum.   
3. The "greatest Canadian" was a populist.
4. Well, having children will tend do that....priorities over politics. 
5. If you are more open minded about the expression of varying views without impediment, welcome to the club.

1. Only by people who irrationally knee-jerk react to them with emotion and not intelligence.  Like me.
2. After I calm down and pop my elitist monacle in, I can usually see this.  I mean... the great unwashed demanding a more fair economy - what's NOT to like ??
3. Gretzky ?  Cool ...
4. Actually having a child pushed me back towards the liberal column.  The socialist bosom has been very generous with its Mao moo milk.
5. What people (especially leftists) don't see is that a 'rising tide' really does lift all boats.  But unnatural interventions and collusion between globalist corporates and government squeeze the lemon more for those who already reek of lemonade...
 

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

No, it's democratic socialism that's coming. 

Yes, that's what Daniel Ortega told Nicaraguans. "Don't worry! I'm not a Socialist! I'm a Democratic Socialist!"

Until he got control of the army. Then it became "Do what I say or I'll kill your family!"

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16 hours ago, Shady said:

Another example of the progressive Taliban.

I would suggest that the likes of Ezra Levant and David Menzies come from one fringe of the Political Spectrum and those Protestors come from the other. 

So the video isn't really reflective of anything when it comes to rational political discourse in this country. Menzies is just a Bleep Disturber. That's all he really ever does. 

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11 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

Oh please, two different sides of the same coin. A propaganda machine to brainwash a different sector of the population and making money on division

We are just markets to 99% in the press, they don't care one bit about the individual out there, they want people to be angry at each other so they can sell their paper because people in fear will always run to where is comfortable. 

Not sure when and what happened with the media but try watching some news reports from 90's and 80's and then turn on CNN and MSNBC or Fox on the other side. You will see the contrast. 

Rebel lacks the polish and the fancy studios and the huge ensemble cast of a major network but it’s all we have in Canada right now to tell the truth about anything that’s remotely political in nature. 
 

Our MSM is every bit as deceitful as CNN or MSNBC, we just have a few different versions of it. 

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18 minutes ago, Shady said:

Notice how socialism only really works in capitalist countries?  Otherwise there isn't the necessary revenue generated to fund their agenda.

Right, which is why it's not really socialism but merely liberal economy.  I was surprised that the definition of socialism is largely considered to be 'state ownership' and really nobody wants that... We sold our airline, our trucks, our hotels, our railroad.  Better to get know-how to run things and just tax the shit out of them... sorry, was my mic on ?

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Right, which is why it's not really socialism but merely liberal economy.  I was surprised that the definition of socialism is largely considered to be 'state ownership' and really nobody wants that... We sold our airline, our trucks, our hotels, our railroad.  Better to get know-how to run things and just tax the shit out of them... sorry, was my mic on ?

Taxing the shit out of anything as a general policy is probably not wise.  Discretion is very important, there are a lot of factors that need to be weighed.    But that's what makes Black Lives Matter's agenda of ending capitalism so bat shit crazy.  

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we aren't systemically racist.

 

but the populous is racist. 

 

however it is not racist to say that you are obliged to speak English and your language has no bearings in Canada. its also not racists to insult other people's culture. it's racist to discriminate against people based on their ethnicity, regarding privileges and opportunities ~ Not to deny immigration*.

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7 minutes ago, Shady said:

Taxing the shit out of anything as a general policy is probably not wise.  Discretion is very important, there are a lot of factors that need to be weighed.    But that's what makes Black Lives Matter's agenda of ending capitalism so bat shit crazy.  

 

Black Lives Matter is a neo-Marxist organization based on the development of local, grassroots chapter based power and opposition to the existing economic, political, and criminal justice system framework.    This movement's ideals and goals bear a close resemblance to the Black Panther Party founded by Marxists Bobby Seale and Huey Newton in Oakland, California (1966).   Economic and political change is the goal by any means necessary.

Law enforcement is the arch enemy of such a movement, because it is the armed muscle of the oppressor and must be eliminated.   Black Power was the political and economic context then, as it is now, and identical symbolism is being deployed.   History is repeating itself...with smartphones and social media videos, now on an international stage.

 

152px-Fist.svg.png

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Shady said:

1. Taxing the shit out of anything as a general policy is probably not wise. 

2.    But that's what makes Black Lives Matter's agenda of ending capitalism so bat shit crazy.  

1. That's why I made a little joke, ie I wasn't serious.

2. People support flawed groups for their own reasons all the time.  For example the Republican or Liberal parties.

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2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

right now to tell the truth about anything that’s remotely political in nature. 
 

Who tells the truth, Rebel Media ? That's the same answer someone will give you on the other side for MSNBC. They are laughing at how easy it is to make money on division. You think the investors or whoever is running Rebel Media cares about the average Canadian ? This is not the same media from 80, 90's. Is called a propaganda machine that steps on individual rights by caving to group mobs. 

For me if I ever talk like I found the truth somewhere, in one place, I am in trouble, it is a sign that I have to keep searching as the truth is in the journey not in the destination.

Edited by Independent1986
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17 hours ago, Argus said:

Police resources are placed where crime is the highest. They aren't sent to quiet suburban neighborhoods much because there's not much crime there other than occasional burglaries. But most of the crime they respond to in black communities are due to calls for assistance from black community members. Does that mean they're more likely to notice crimes like drug use while patrolling there? Sure. But they're not creating crimes like rape, robbery and murder. Nor are they overlooking those things in 'white' communities because they're not there to see them. If those crimes were happening they'd be reported and that would draw police. According to New York City crime stats blacks are responsible for roughly half of all crime in the city, including 62% of murders, 66% of robberies and 74% of shootings. There is just no way they are not going to be subjected to a greatly disproportionate amount of police attention, arrests and use of force.

You weren't here making those arguments when Justine Damond got gunned down by a black cop in the same city as George Floyd died.

You're way ahead of yourself on this argument.  I was arguing against your use of near-useless statistics like "police interactions" and the percentage of them that turn violent, nation-wide.  It's too vague a term and has too many variables to account for to be very informative.  It's also naive to say that police resources go to where crime is highest.  Budget is one of the most important factors in this equation, and that's why places like Tulsa, AZ have less than half the police per capita of New York city, despite higher crime rates. 

Regardless, when you ask questions about Justine Damond and "where were you?" after she got shot, you're showing you're missing the point entirely.  I didn't even know about her, just like I don't know about more than a tiny fraction of the black (or white) folk that police shoot each year in the USA.  Justine's killer went to prison for something like 12 years too, so what on earth is your point?  White lives matter too?  Justice for Justine? K...

This isn't really just about BLM.  The target for the protests is the police organizations, their excessive use of force, and their appalling lack of transparency and accountability.

It's become a race debate because, as you say, Black people are getting hurt more often than others.  The fact that they statistically commit more crime is certainly relevant and explains a lot of that, but then why would you stop there?  The systemic racism that black people have faced for decades, and the poverty and hopelessness that it begets is one of the main factors in the increased rates of crime, so it's hardly something to gloss over.  The media attention is on black people because they're understandably the ones who are the most upset - not just at police violence - but at the circumstances they find themselves in as well.  

 

 

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19 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Rebel media has it's flaws, but it's still better than CTV and CBC combined. At least they're not outright liars.

No.  Rebel media isn't worthy of mention in the national media debate.  It doesn't just have it's flaws.  It's a clown show without even a shred of journalistic integrity, and serves no purpose other than to rile up an out-of-touch and wildly ignorant base, and to reassure in the face of their own ignorance.  

On the unapologetic Left, for example, we have newspapers like the Toronto Star.  They wear their partisanship pretty openly, but at least they make pretenses of professional journalism (coloured as it is by editorial bias).  One thing they don't do, however, is send confrontational granola reporters out to seek trouble and pick fights/arguments at neo-nazi rallies.   

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27 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

You're way ahead of yourself on this argument.  I was arguing against your use of near-useless statistics like "police interactions" and the percentage of them that turn violent, nation-wide.  It's too vague a term and has too many variables to account for to be very informative.  It's also naive to say that police resources go to where crime is highest.  Budget is one of the most important factors in this equation, and that's why places like Tulsa, AZ have less than half the police per capita of New York city, despite higher crime rates. 

Obviously when I say police resources go to there the crime is I mean within jurisdictions concerned. Clearly NY has more money so it has more cops, and it places those cops where the crime is highest and most violent.

Quote

Regardless, when you ask questions about Justine Damond and "where were you?" after she got shot, you're showing you're missing the point entirely.  I didn't even know about her, just like I don't know about more than a tiny fraction of the black (or white) folk that police shoot each year in the USA.  Justine's killer went to prison for something like 12 years too, so what on earth is your point? 

My point is you never heard of it. Because the media narrative is to focus solely on white cop on black suspect/victim crime. So you get every single instance where they can make it into an outrageous incident, where they label it racist without evidence, but you don't get the rest. So it's fairly easy to believe this is a race thing concerning blacks when it isn't. Police killings of unarmed people rarely happen, but when it does, especially if the person killed is black, it's going to be front page news everywhere. Yes, her killer went to prison. But let's compare the situations. Her killer refused to even answer why he shot her. He wasn't fired within forty eight hours and charged within four days. He wasn't charged until a year later, and fired at that time. And there were no riots, no nationwide protests, and far, far less publicity, despite the face her case was arguably more outrageous because she wasn't a criminal, just a law abiding citizen.

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This isn't really just about BLM.  The target for the protests is the police organizations, their excessive use of force, and their appalling lack of transparency and accountability.

But ONLY with regard to the killings of black people.

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It's become a race debate because, as you say, Black people are getting hurt more often than others. 

14 in a year, less than half the rate of lighting strikes. Less than the number of unarmed white people killed by police.

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The fact that they statistically commit more crime is certainly relevant and explains a lot of that, but then why would you stop there?  The systemic racism that black people have faced for decades, and the poverty and hopelessness that it begets is one of the main factors in the increased rates of crime, so it's hardly something to gloss over. 

Funny how everyone talks about this 'systemic racism' word but no one seems able to point to it. No one seems to have an explanation as to why the American born children of black immigrants don't go to jail nearly as much as other blacks, graduate high school and go to college at much higher rates, and perform 58% better in terms of salaries. If the issue is 'systemic racism' why do they thrive? Maybe systemic racism isn't really a thing.

 

Edited by Argus
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