Centrist Party of Canada

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  I've always said we should do our part, my argument is we shouldn't do more than our fair share if big polluters aren't doing similar.  I'm also not defending the statement that Canada is "green".

2.  I never said we shouldn't act.  I've stated the opposite.  What's your metric for action?  What is your statistical GHG reduction goal, and why?  My statistical metric is to match GHG reductions of average of the US, EU, and China's reductions.  Reducing GHG less than that is irresponsible since we should do our part as you say, and reducing by more only harms our economy while barely putting a dent in total GHG.

4. You're trying to say Canada isn't "green" because we have higher GHG per capita than most countries.  I'm not even saying we're "green", but you can't compare Canada to most countries using GHG per capita because we have a much larger area & lower population density than virtually every country, plus a modern developed economy.  "Improvement" isn't a goalpost, it's vague, it literally is meaningless, what's your metric?  How do you measure "improvement"?  By how much do we need to improve, how do we know when we haven't improved enough?  This country needs specific statistical goals based on justifiable measures.  But many people just say "Oil and pipelines bad, we need to save the world".

5. Ok

6. I've disagreed with this person too, like on TFW program.

Ok - I thought you were coming into the discussion between me and the Centrist Party and taking their side.   We agree that Canada isn't necessarily Green, that Canada should reduce proportionally but not more than their fair share accounting for our density, northerness. I believe we should try to achieve the goals we set out in our treaties, and generally we should be planning to phase out fossil fuels.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Ok - I thought you were coming into the discussion between me and the Centrist Party and taking their side.   We agree that Canada isn't necessarily Green, that Canada should reduce proportionally but not more than their fair share accounting for our density, northerness. I believe we should try to achieve the goals we set out in our treaties,

Yes I agree with all of that.

Quote

and generally we should be planning to phase out fossil fuels.

Where viable alternatives exist then yes, as per above.

[Queenmandy85]

Centre, what is your party's plan to ensure future generations will have access to our oil? How many generations?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Where viable alternatives exist then yes, as per above.

Yes, they do per above.

[Moonlight Graham]

46 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, they do per above.

But not in all cases is green tech available.  ie: EV tech for airplanes or transport trucks still don't seem to be at a good enough stage to take over quite yet.

[CentristPartyofCanada]

On 4/16/2020 at 7:58 AM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Ok, it's good to get specifics.  What classes of jobs other than TFW would be abolished?  Doesn't the agriculture industry need TFWs to survive?

2. You didn't address the fact that costs will be higher for Canadian consumers.  What is the analysis of cost increases for the average household?

3. Voters rejected the CPC, partly because Climate Change concerns weren't met.  How is it Centrist to push a Climate Change plan that is even more vague, that tries to address climate change by reducing the number of refugees?

1. Yes it does.

2. This is impossible to answer.

3. I'm beginning to think you're being deliberately obtuse. All you keep mentioning is refugees, despite the fact that you've been corrected multiple times about that.

Here are two entire pages that exactly outline the plan:

https://www.centrist.ca/environment

https://www.centrist.ca/important-issues-climate-change

The top of every policy page has bullet points that breakdown the information in to a tl;dr format.

20 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Canadians, especially young Canadians, don't want to do backbreaking farm labour for little pay.  They'd rather work at Timmies.  If we get rid of TFW program farms have to substantially raise pay to farm workers in order to get people to work for them, and then the price of much of our food will increase.  Pick your poison.

Agriculture would be one of the exceptions. When we mention TFW we're referring to things like this:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/hd-mining-chief-makes-his-case-for-hiring-temporary-foreign-workers/article8238708/

 

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Sorry, yes, I flipped that.  "We only pollute 1.5 % of the total, China produces FOURTEEN TIMES as much" is a statement designed to appeal to people who don't think to ask the question I am asking.

2. How am I to react when a 'Centrist' party calls Canada green, when they contribute three times their population per capita - based on the above ?

 

Canadians will always have a higher per capita output because of the nature of our country - long distances and very cold for a long period of time.

The atmosphere does not care about per capita. The atmosphere is a physical entity that follows the laws of physics. In the end it boils down to the total output. The larger the total output, the more dramatic the effect. Per capita is just a metric people have created but it's meaningless on a global scale. Also the per capita takes in to account the oil sands.

19 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  And the same approach that calls on us to do our part also will reward us for achieving improvements, and there definitely are improvements to be made.
2. Please take emotion out of this - we have a responsibility to act.  Stop feeling guilty.
3. Cities aren't going to be torn up if that's what counters us being "so spread out" as you say.
4. No - you are strawmanning me.  I didn't set goalposts, I said that we can't say we are green when we pollute so much relatively.  The goalpost is improvement as far as I am concerned.
5. I agree with you more than I disagree with you.

My main problem and the reason I am on this thread is that somebody called themselves a 'Centrist', came up with some half-thought-out policies and started stating that Canada is green.  The #1 thing that doesn't make me stand down is bad discussion, and especially bad faith politics.  I am very eager for an actual Centrist party to come up with some well-thought-out ideas.  Maybe you are being generous to this poster, which is fine, but I think if you were being honest you would find this package to be lacking, as I do.
 

We would be very interested to hear concrete examples on what you perceive as Centrist. We're not doing this in bad faith - we firmly believe what is on the website.

17 hours ago, taxme said:

I am going to stick with the People's Party of Canada who have a lot of very good ideas as to how to go about changing all of the liberal and socialist programs and agendas that have pretty much ruined this country from being able to see it's full potential. The PPC also have many good ideas like your party is offering. The PPC was able to gather up enough members to be able to have run in most constituency's in Canada in the last election, and are ready for the next election to do the same thing again. Sorry, fella or gal, but you will not be getting my vote. But good luck anyway.  

 

One of our members ran for the PPC. This person was not impressed - they ended up quitting. The PPC has a very strong online presence but offline their presence is very poor. As long as the PPC continues to deny climate change, among other things, they will never stand a chance.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by CentristPartyofCanada

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, CentristPartyofCanada said:

1. Yes it does.

2. This is impossible to answer.

3. I'm beginning to think you're being deliberately obtuse. All you keep mentioning is refugees, despite the fact that you've been corrected multiple times about that.

4. The atmosphere does not care about per capita. The atmosphere is a physical entity that follows the laws of physics. In the end it boils down to the total output. The larger the total output, the more dramatic the effect. Per capita is just a metric people have created but it's meaningless on a global scale. Also the per capita takes in to account the oil sands.

5. We would be very interested to hear concrete examples on what you perceive as Centrist. We're not doing this in bad faith - we firmly believe what is on the website.

One of our members ran for the PPC. This person was not impressed - they ended up quitting. The PPC has a very strong online presence but offline their presence is very poor. As long as the PPC continues to deny climate change, among other things, they will never stand a chance.

 

1. Ok.  And ?  TFWs acknowledged...
2. It's impossible to be 100% accurate but not to make a projection.  And any model should provide projections.  And there must be a model right ?
3. Ok, well to be fair there is more to your plan but also to be fair it's the #1 issue on your "important issues climate change" list.  So ... Also "Untreated Sewage Dumping" - how is that related to Climate Change ?  It was a talking point for the anti-Trudeau bloggers when they were pointing out how Quebec was flying under the radar for their environmental misdeeds but nothing to do with Climate Change.
4. You need to reduce across the board.  No country is going to sign on to a treaty that says "Countries that are under 2% (or some small number) don't need to participate".  Numbers add up.  
5. How about environmental policies that comply with treaties that have been signed by almost every country on earth ?  Seems like something you should be clearer on. 

Generally your takes on policy seem fresh, if amateurish.  I get the appeal of populist ideas and certainly you would be better at this than others but if you want to be really successful get some more experts to help you form policy.  My two cents.
 

[Argus]

14 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

But not in all cases is green tech available.  ie: EV tech for airplanes or transport trucks still don't seem to be at a good enough stage to take over quite yet.

They don't even exist for electricity because they're unreliable - except for hydro and nuclear. We are not going to replace fossil fuels to power most of the world's electricity with solar or wind power. It just won't work and it's far more expensive.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. You need to reduce across the board.  No country is going to sign on to a treaty that says "Countries that are under 2% (or some small number) don't need to participate".  Numbers add up. 

Countries led by morons will. After all, Canada signed onto a treaty which said "80% of countries don't have to do anything to reduce their emissions, and the West will pay them $100 billion per year."

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

3 hours ago, CentristPartyofCanada said:

One of our members ran for the PPC. This person was not impressed - they ended up quitting. The PPC has a very strong online presence but offline their presence is very poor.

The election campaign was called only months after the PPC started to organize. What sort of offline presence did you expect them to have?

Quote

As long as the PPC continues to deny climate change, among other things, they will never stand a chance.

AFAIK they don't deny climate change. They merely say the present recommended solution will damage our economy and not do anything substantive to combat it.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Argus

[taxme]

6 hours ago, CentristPartyofCanada said:

1. Yes it does.

2. This is impossible to answer.

3. I'm beginning to think you're being deliberately obtuse. All you keep mentioning is refugees, despite the fact that you've been corrected multiple times about that.

Here are two entire pages that exactly outline the plan:

https://www.centrist.ca/environment

https://www.centrist.ca/important-issues-climate-change

The top of every policy page has bullet points that breakdown the information in to a tl;dr format.

Agriculture would be one of the exceptions. When we mention TFW we're referring to things like this:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/hd-mining-chief-makes-his-case-for-hiring-temporary-foreign-workers/article8238708/

 

Canadians will always have a higher per capita output because of the nature of our country - long distances and very cold for a long period of time.

The atmosphere does not care about per capita. The atmosphere is a physical entity that follows the laws of physics. In the end it boils down to the total output. The larger the total output, the more dramatic the effect. Per capita is just a metric people have created but it's meaningless on a global scale. Also the per capita takes in to account the oil sands.

We would be very interested to hear concrete examples on what you perceive as Centrist. We're not doing this in bad faith - we firmly believe what is on the website.

One of our members ran for the PPC. This person was not impressed - they ended up quitting. The PPC has a very strong online presence but offline their presence is very poor. As long as the PPC continues to deny climate change, among other things, they will never stand a chance.

 

We all know that the climate changes all the time. But it is something that we should not get all upset over. The earths weather and it's geography has been changing for millions of years. The earth has suffered from tornadoes, hurricanes, volcano eruptions, earthquakes, floods and so much more.  Humans have had some impact on the earth but life still carried on. We humans can adapt to any changes being done by humans or nature. The PPC does care about the environment but not in the way that you do. The PPC supporters don't go all crazy in the head like so many people like you do. 

Maybe that member of yours had some conflict with Maxine Bernier and quit because of it. This happens in all political party's. It will happen in your party also. The PPC  has a chance if people would listen to their platform where if the PPC takes power we the people will finally get less government/red tape, less taxes, and more freedom. That is what the PPC offers. How can anyone not want to vote for the PPC in the next election? You are pretty much stupid if you do not. But then again, there are plenty of stupid people in Canada who would vote for their own slavery if there were a buck in it for them. Most are clueless when it comes to politics. Look who those fools put back into power again. A bunch of suckers for more punishment.Just my own personal opinion. 

[Marocc]

On 4/13/2020 at 6:19 PM, Argus said:

I find it repugnant that to the Left, an actual Christian who goes to church and believes in Christianity is blithely dismissed as a "religious nutjob" but we have lots of Muslim, Sikh and Hindu MPs and ministers

That's because the Christian doctrine – as many 'non-practising Christians' know – is so twisted, that you'd have to have gone wrong somewhere to end up trying to believe and follow all that.

[scribblet]

20 minutes ago, Marocc said:

That's because the Christian doctrine – as many 'non-practising Christians' know – is so twisted, that you'd have to have gone wrong somewhere to end up trying to believe and follow all that.

Are u just baiting or what , cos  there's nothing more twisted than Islam and it's violent exhortations to "kill the infidels" among many other evil twisted  lines.

[Marocc]

10 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Are u just baiting or what , cos  there's nothing more twisted than Islam and it's violent exhortations to "kill the infidels" among many other evil twisted  lines.

Are you just baiting or what, because you're speaking such nonsense?

[scribblet]

48 minutes ago, Marocc said:

Are you just baiting or what, because you're speaking such nonsense?

Oh sure, looked in the mirror lately. 

You can actually spout this with a straight face "That's because the Christian doctrine – as many 'non-practising Christians' know – is so twisted, that you'd have to have gone wrong somewhere to end up trying to believe and follow all that. "

You would have to have gone wrong somewhere to believe in and worship a pedophile and believe in all that Islam entails.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to balance out those calling for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy, along with the remarkable emphasis on violence found in the Quran, have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

[CentristPartyofCanada]

9 hours ago, Argus said:

The election campaign was called only months after the PPC started to organize. What sort of offline presence did you expect them to have?

AFAIK they don't deny climate change. They merely say the present recommended solution will damage our economy and not do anything substantive to combat it.

They deny that climate change is man made. Of course the climate is always changing but humans have a huge impact on that. They've also provided 0 information on their "plan" or the direction they intend to take.

5 hours ago, taxme said:

We all know that the climate changes all the time. But it is something that we should not get all upset over. The earths weather and it's geography has been changing for millions of years. The earth has suffered from tornadoes, hurricanes, volcano eruptions, earthquakes, floods and so much more.  Humans have had some impact on the earth but life still carried on. We humans can adapt to any changes being done by humans or nature. The PPC does care about the environment but not in the way that you do. The PPC supporters don't go all crazy in the head like so many people like you do. 

Maybe that member of yours had some conflict with Maxine Bernier and quit because of it. This happens in all political party's. It will happen in your party also. The PPC  has a chance if people would listen to their platform where if the PPC takes power we the people will finally get less government/red tape, less taxes, and more freedom. That is what the PPC offers. How can anyone not want to vote for the PPC in the next election? You are pretty much stupid if you do not. But then again, there are plenty of stupid people in Canada who would vote for their own slavery if there were a buck in it for them. Most are clueless when it comes to politics. Look who those fools put back into power again. A bunch of suckers for more punishment.Just my own personal opinion. 

Most of them have a very poor understanding of what climate change is.

I'll break it down:

• The earth receives energy from the sun through the form of electromagnetic radiation
• Some of the radiation from the sun is blocked by the earth's magnetic field and composition of the atmosphere (ozone for UV rays, etc)
• A large portion of the energy that makes it through is visible light and infrared.
• Certain chemicals in the earth's atmosphere, like oxygen and nitrogen, known as linear molecules, are very stable and do not react with the incoming radiation (unless for high energy such as UV)
• Non-linear chemicals, which have many vibrational modes, such as carbon dioxide, water (vapour), and other organic molecules, absorb the infrared radiation and keep it within the earth's atmosphere. These chemicals are known as "green house gases"
• The temperature within a system is dependent on the amount of energy in it. More energy, the higher the temperature
• The energy in earth's atmosphere is an equation which amounts to => temperature = energy received by sun + energy already in atmosphere - energy leaving the atmosphere
• The amount of energy retained within the atmosphere is dependent on the amount of carbon dioxide, water vapour, and other organic chemicals, since they retain infrared energy instead of allowing it to leave in to space.
• Thus, the more carbon dioxide, water vapour, and other organic chemicals, the higher the absorption and retention rate of solar energy
• The increased energy retention within the atmosphere causes an increase in temperature
• Humans began using coal for power around 1700. The human population then was 710 million. Only a select few were using coal back then. It's 2020. Europe alone has a population approaching 800 million. How much coal, other forms of fossil fuels, and natural gas is used to provide those 800 million europeans electricity, vehicles, consumer goods, and a trove of other modern comforts and necessities? The current human population is 7.7 billion people. So over the past 320 years, we've not only grown the human population from 710 million to 7.7 billion but we've also heavily industrialized our societies. Countries like China are rapidly industrializing. The amount of carbon dioxide, water vapour, and other green house gases being emitted on a daily basis have reached astronomical numbers. Think of the compounding effects.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_vibration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_spectroscopy#Absorption_spectrum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_band

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing

Edited April 18, 2020 by CentristPartyofCanada
Typo

[Argus]

17 hours ago, CentristPartyofCanada said:

They deny that climate change is man made. Of course the climate is always changing but humans have a huge impact on that. They've also provided 0 information on their "plan" or the direction they intend to take.

Even the scientists aren't sure how much impact humanity has on climate change. They're sure it has some, though. I don't disagree with that. The problem comes in deciding what, if anything we can do about it. The Paris agreement calls for the west to make drastic cutbacks in CO2 emissions while paying $100 billion a year to the rest of the world, who are not required to make any cutbacks. I find this problematic on several levels. But just to start, it's unworkable as a solution. As I said before, I'm willing to accept carbon taxes as soon as the US, China, Russia, India and the rest do. Not before. I see no point in incentivizing our industry to leave for other countries where there are no such taxes.

I have no issue with your belief we need more nuclear energy, and would support that. It is the only renewable energy source which is reliable and affordable.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Argus

[CentristPartyofCanada]

41 minutes ago, Argus said:

Even the scientists aren't sure how much impact humanity has on climate change. They're sure it has some, though. I don't disagree with that. The problem comes in deciding what, if anything we can do about it. The Paris agreement calls for the west to make drastic cutbacks in CO2 emissions while paying $100 billion a year to the rest of the world, who are not required to make any cutbacks. I find this problematic on several levels. But just to start, it's unworkable as a solution. As I said before, I'm willing to accept carbon taxes as soon as the US, China, Russia, India and the rest do. Not before. I see no point in incentivizing our industry to leave for other countries where there are no such taxes.

I have no issue with your belief we need more nuclear energy, and would support that. It is the only renewable energy source which is reliable and affordable.

They are sure it has a very strong negative impact - how large of a negative impact is the question - but it is absolute certainty that humanity has a huge impact on climate change.

As mentioned above, the energy in the atmosphere dictates the temperature. Our GHG are the main cause of the retention of this energy.

For everything else you wrote, that's exactly what is said on our website.

https://www.centrist.ca/environment

 

[taxme]

18 hours ago, CentristPartyofCanada said:

They deny that climate change is man made. Of course the climate is always changing but humans have a huge impact on that. They've also provided 0 information on their "plan" or the direction they intend to take.

Most of them have a very poor understanding of what climate change is.

I'll break it down:

• The earth receives energy from the sun through the form of electromagnetic radiation
• Some of the radiation from the sun is blocked by the earth's magnetic field and composition of the atmosphere (ozone for UV rays, etc)
• A large portion of the energy that makes it through is visible light and infrared.
• Certain chemicals in the earth's atmosphere, like oxygen and nitrogen, known as linear molecules, are very stable and do not react with the incoming radiation (unless for high energy such as UV)
• Non-linear chemicals, which have many vibrational modes, such as carbon dioxide, water (vapour), and other organic molecules, absorb the infrared radiation and keep it within the earth's atmosphere. These chemicals are known as "green house gases"
• The temperature within a system is dependent on the amount of energy in it. More energy, the higher the temperature
• The energy in earth's atmosphere is an equation which amounts to => temperature = energy received by sun + energy already in atmosphere - energy leaving the atmosphere
• The amount of energy retained within the atmosphere is dependent on the amount of carbon dioxide, water vapour, and other organic chemicals, since they retain infrared energy instead of allowing it to leave in to space.
• Thus, the more carbon dioxide, water vapour, and other organic chemicals, the higher the absorption and retention rate of solar energy
• The increased energy retention within the atmosphere causes an increase in temperature
• Humans began using coal for power around 1700. The human population then was 710 million. Only a select few were using coal back then. It's 2020. Europe alone has a population approaching 800 million. How much coal, other forms of fossil fuels, and natural gas is used to provide those 800 million europeans electricity, vehicles, consumer goods, and a trove of other modern comforts and necessities? The current human population is 7.7 billion people. So over the past 320 years, we've not only grown the human population from 710 million to 7.7 billion but we've also heavily industrialized our societies. Countries like China are rapidly industrializing. The amount of carbon dioxide, water vapour, and other green house gases being emitted on a daily basis have reached astronomical numbers. Think of the compounding effects.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_vibration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_spectroscopy#Absorption_spectrum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_band

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing

The party that I want to belong to is a party that believes in more freedom, less government/red tape, and less taxes. That is what people really want to hear from a political party. The only real crisis and the damage that I see happening to the environment and causing this so called global warming and pollution is what I have seen in countries like China, India, Africa and the middle East. I once took a bus tour thru Cairo, Egypt, and I saw an Arab woman washing what looked like a carpet in some small little dirty looking water in a canal that had mostly garbage in it and a dead cow. I actually felt sorry for that woman. What kind of life is that? 

It's not the west that is the problem with global warming and pollution, it is the third world countries of the world who are creating all the problems. I don't need to hear from some Canadian politician talk about global warming or pollution because in the West there hardly is any of that happening all that much anymore as to what I mentioned above. I want a politician who is willing to talk about big government, taxes, freedom, foreign aid, and massive immigration. All those mentioned are costing the Canadian taxpayer's hundreds of billions of their tax dollars every year. From what I have seen and read from what you have posted here so far,  does not meet my expectations of what a political party should be really concerned and all about. Create all the charts and graphs that you want too. I already have picked my party.  A party that may be the last hope to try and fix and make Canada great again. 

The unfortunate thing for you and me is that my party and your party will probably never gain all that much ground and will probably go anywhere in Canada. Why you ask? It's plain and simple. The majority of Canadians do not really give all that much of a shit about anything but themselves and what goes on in Canada. They show that they do not even care as to what their politicians are doing to them every day of every year with their taxes. Royally screwing them all and they keep asking for more royal screwing. We live in an it's all about me-me-me country now. When you see buffoons like this PM of Canada, that has now been given more opportunities to destroy this country get back in power, with a bunch of socialist and Marxists party's backing him up, should tell you that we are all f'n screwed.? It tells me that the majority of Canadians love their big lying government, more taxes, and less freedom. 

The next election will be the big one. It will be either for freedom and liberty or for less freedom just for the sake of more safety. Just my opinion of course. Works for me!!

[taxme]

59 minutes ago, CentristPartyofCanada said:

They are sure it has a very strong negative impact - how large of a negative impact is the question - but it is absolute certainty that humanity has a huge impact on climate change.

As mentioned above, the energy in the atmosphere dictates the temperature. Our GHG are the main cause of the retention of this energy.

For everything else you wrote, that's exactly what is said on our website.

https://www.centrist.ca/environment

 

Well, if you believe so much that humans have had a very big impact on the environment, well maybe it is time for the third world to stop making so many babies. There are families in most of these 3rd world countries that have more children then they can ever handle or take care of. Even one child is probably too many for some married 3rd world couples. But it seems to people like you and so many others here that it is always the West that is the main problem, and never the 3rd world. Pardon my french but bull chit to that. 

So, do you own a car or travel on buses or airplanes to get around or do you do all your business on a bicycle? Because if you do own a car and use it every day than you are one of the guilty ones that is contributing to the warming of the climate. I enjoy watching all those environmentalists out there who whine and cry about how we are all going to die if we keep driving our cars, but yet they are probably the same people who use fossil fuels to get around in every day. Those hero's of the leftist environmentalist movements like Suzuki, Gore and Decrapio all tell us how bad we all are for using fossil fuels to get around but yet those three alone will always take a trip on their private planes or drive big gas guzzling cars to go anywhere, and own several homes between them who are great contributors to this so called global warming. Believe me when I say that those three will never get on an airplane and sit in row 16 with the rest of the common folk, and I doubt that they take taxis or buses to wherever they are going.

It's sad when you get some buffoons like those mentioned above who tell us that we the ordinary people are the problem and who are being told that we should help fight global warming but yet those three are not in that battle to help fight global warming. They will never practice what they preach. So just what is your party and it's supporters doing to help fight climate change? How many have cars and use them every day?  Just curious. 

[CentristPartyofCanada]

 

5 hours ago, taxme said:

The party that I want to belong to is a party that believes in more freedom, less government/red tape, and less taxes. That is what people really want to hear from a political party. The only real crisis and the damage that I see happening to the environment and causing this so called global warming and pollution is what I have seen in countries like China, India, Africa and the middle East. I once took a bus tour thru Cairo, Egypt, and I saw an Arab woman washing what looked like a carpet in some small little dirty looking water in a canal that had mostly garbage in it and a dead cow. I actually felt sorry for that woman. What kind of life is that? 

It's not the west that is the problem with global warming and pollution, it is the third world countries of the world who are creating all the problems. I don't need to hear from some Canadian politician talk about global warming or pollution because in the West there hardly is any of that happening all that much anymore as to what I mentioned above. I want a politician who is willing to talk about big government, taxes, freedom, foreign aid, and massive immigration. All those mentioned are costing the Canadian taxpayer's hundreds of billions of their tax dollars every year. From what I have seen and read from what you have posted here so far,  does not meet my expectations of what a political party should be really concerned and all about. Create all the charts and graphs that you want too. I already have picked my party.  A party that may be the last hope to try and fix and make Canada great again. 

The unfortunate thing for you and me is that my party and your party will probably never gain all that much ground and will probably go anywhere in Canada. Why you ask? It's plain and simple. The majority of Canadians do not really give all that much of a shit about anything but themselves and what goes on in Canada. They show that they do not even care as to what their politicians are doing to them every day of every year with their taxes. Royally screwing them all and they keep asking for more royal screwing. We live in an it's all about me-me-me country now. When you see buffoons like this PM of Canada, that has now been given more opportunities to destroy this country get back in power, with a bunch of socialist and Marxists party's backing him up, should tell you that we are all f'n screwed.? It tells me that the majority of Canadians love their big lying government, more taxes, and less freedom. 

The next election will be the big one. It will be either for freedom and liberty or for less freedom just for the sake of more safety. Just my opinion of course. Works for me!!

That's what the Centrist party is. We're about more freedom. All those things you mentioned, especially massive immigration, are things on our platform.

The fact that those "chart and graphs" is something that you dismiss, shows how the PPC is the same as the liberals or conservatives. Even when presented with actual legitimate science and proof, the PPC's horde of koolaid drinkers refuse to acknowledge it. The PPC said they were common sense and fact based - but they aren't. Just like the other parties, they manipulate the data or throw rhetoric to justify their beliefs.  That isn't any different than how some Liberals see firearms.

We're different. We look at the data first, and from there we establish our position. You're right that Canadians don't care. We will all get our just deserts soon enough.

 

5 hours ago, taxme said:

Well, if you believe so much that humans have had a very big impact on the environment, well maybe it is time for the third world to stop making so many babies. There are families in most of these 3rd world countries that have more children then they can ever handle or take care of. Even one child is probably too many for some married 3rd world couples. But it seems to people like you and so many others here that it is always the West that is the main problem, and never the 3rd world. Pardon my french but bull chit to that. 

So, do you own a car or travel on buses or airplanes to get around or do you do all your business on a bicycle? Because if you do own a car and use it every day than you are one of the guilty ones that is contributing to the warming of the climate. I enjoy watching all those environmentalists out there who whine and cry about how we are all going to die if we keep driving our cars, but yet they are probably the same people who use fossil fuels to get around in every day. Those hero's of the leftist environmentalist movements like Suzuki, Gore and Decrapio all tell us how bad we all are for using fossil fuels to get around but yet those three alone will always take a trip on their private planes or drive big gas guzzling cars to go anywhere, and own several homes between them who are great contributors to this so called global warming. Believe me when I say that those three will never get on an airplane and sit in row 16 with the rest of the common folk, and I doubt that they take taxis or buses to wherever they are going.

It's sad when you get some buffoons like those mentioned above who tell us that we the ordinary people are the problem and who are being told that we should help fight global warming but yet those three are not in that battle to help fight global warming. They will never practice what they preach. So just what is your party and it's supporters doing to help fight climate change? How many have cars and use them every day?  Just curious.

You can blame capitalism for that one. The reason these 3rd world countries are polluting so much IS because of us. Corporations are always looking to reduce their costs and maximize profits. To achieve that goal they've outsourced their manufacturing to countries with less regulation, less taxes, less red tape, and cheaper labor. If it wasn't for them doing that, we would have all that manufacturing and other industries at home and we could be more environmentally friendly. How much of your stuff is "made in china"? Pretty much all of it.

The pollution in the ocean is 3rd world countries dumping our garbage.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/craig-and-marc-kielburger/canada-manila-recycling_b_5452730.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAI6jsZNOy5k5JkDrPlZ6wbKtPR-kOxrJFkiUbHwQrCV1nb84Bn9Iysp9VKeLKGmzyYMCBoUB0AkjP4O5KX0V532gjaPv_VZr58Q0odulg6pf_KJvwr34a-1La4mB3kHFFxez5D3gDcboHiRpY5HIA5bKBWyBKhFeuDJIY_9E4fFc

https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2019/04/24/how-did-103-containers-of-canadas-rotting-garbage-end-up-in-the-philippines.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis

We agree with you on what you're saying regarding people like Suzuki.

https://www.centrist.ca/environment

If you read the platform you'll see that you agree with us, we just aren't denying climate change is man made like the PPC is.

Our plan is to bring back that manufacturing and garbage to Canada, so we can get those jobs back and deal with them in an environmentally responsible way, it's to build nuclear power where they still use fossil fuels for power generation, it's to have our cities build with better public transportation and improve the electric vehicle infrastructure, and it's to stop mass immigration and instead allow Canadians to have enough children to sustain the government's tax collection - among other things.

[taxme]

17 hours ago, CentristPartyofCanada said:

 

That's what the Centrist party is. We're about more freedom. All those things you mentioned, especially massive immigration, are things on our platform.

The fact that those "chart and graphs" is something that you dismiss, shows how the PPC is the same as the liberals or conservatives. Even when presented with actual legitimate science and proof, the PPC's horde of koolaid drinkers refuse to acknowledge it. The PPC said they were common sense and fact based - but they aren't. Just like the other parties, they manipulate the data or throw rhetoric to justify their beliefs.  That isn't any different than how some Liberals see firearms.

We're different. We look at the data first, and from there we establish our position. You're right that Canadians don't care. We will all get our just deserts soon enough.

 

You can blame capitalism for that one. The reason these 3rd world countries are polluting so much IS because of us. Corporations are always looking to reduce their costs and maximize profits. To achieve that goal they've outsourced their manufacturing to countries with less regulation, less taxes, less red tape, and cheaper labor. If it wasn't for them doing that, we would have all that manufacturing and other industries at home and we could be more environmentally friendly. How much of your stuff is "made in china"? Pretty much all of it.

The pollution in the ocean is 3rd world countries dumping our garbage.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/craig-and-marc-kielburger/canada-manila-recycling_b_5452730.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAI6jsZNOy5k5JkDrPlZ6wbKtPR-kOxrJFkiUbHwQrCV1nb84Bn9Iysp9VKeLKGmzyYMCBoUB0AkjP4O5KX0V532gjaPv_VZr58Q0odulg6pf_KJvwr34a-1La4mB3kHFFxez5D3gDcboHiRpY5HIA5bKBWyBKhFeuDJIY_9E4fFc

https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2019/04/24/how-did-103-containers-of-canadas-rotting-garbage-end-up-in-the-philippines.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis

We agree with you on what you're saying regarding people like Suzuki.

https://www.centrist.ca/environment

If you read the platform you'll see that you agree with us, we just aren't denying climate change is man made like the PPC is.

Our plan is to bring back that manufacturing and garbage to Canada, so we can get those jobs back and deal with them in an environmentally responsible way, it's to build nuclear power where they still use fossil fuels for power generation, it's to have our cities build with better public transportation and improve the electric vehicle infrastructure, and it's to stop mass immigration and instead allow Canadians to have enough children to sustain the government's tax collection - among other things.

The PPC also looks at data when it comes to massive 3rd world invasion into Canada. The attacks on our freedom of speech, and now assembly, is what the PPC is taking data on. We are being taxed to death which the PPC has plenty of data on that. We have way too much government/red tape which the PPC has acknowledged. Foreign aid needs to be cut back big time or even eliminated. Hundreds of billions of our tax dollars are being given and then wasted on other countries does not work for me. If theos other countries cannot get their chit together well don't expect me to help pay for their incompetence and corruption which is rampant in the 3rd world. Where is your data on that? The PPC is all for what I mentioned above So pretty much what you are saying is pretty much what the PPC is saying.

Canadians need to fire all the politicians that we have in Ottawa today, and start all over again from scratch. The politicians that we have today, especially the french controlled ones in Ottawa, are nothing more than a bunch of spend crazy incompetent and arrogant and pathetic losers who today appear to be out to bankrupt this once great Western country and load Canada up with more new foreign cultures, religions, traditions and languages, and with more refugees legal/illegal which eventually turn Canada into a 3rd world hell hole country itself. 

Who the hell are you to call supporters of the PPC a bunch of "hordes of koolaid drinkers". What? Just because we do not have or produce similar climate facts as you have done does not have to mean that the PPC is not worth voting for, and that we drink too much koolaid filled with hallucinating drugs. You can go get lost on that on.  

Yes, maybe it's because of capitalism that there is plenty of pollution and garbage lying around on the streets and in the rivers of those many 3rd world countries but we cannot blame it all on corporations. The leaders of those countries should be blamed also. The jobs and tax revenues that have been created, thanks to those many corporations investing in those 3rd world countries, those revenues created should be going towards helping in the cleanup of the garbage and the pollution that has been created by those countries leaders themselves. The leaders of those countries should be spending and investing in pollution and garbage controls, not take those revenues and spending those revenues on themselves.

We all know that with corporations it is all about the money and they will go wherever they can go to try and get more bang for their bucks. It's not the corporations that are mostly at fault here, it is those countries leaders that do not care about the pollution or the garbage that has been dumped and left on their streets or in their rivers. It's not the job of the corporations to do the cleanup job for them. It's the leaders who are responsible for the cleanup of the pollution and garbage in their countries. And thanks to those 3rd world leaders incompetence, we now take hundreds of billions of our Canadian tax dollars and give them away in the form of foreign aid to those mostly corrupt and incompetent leaders. Foreign aid is one big joke being played on the taxpayer's of Canada. Sadly, those taxpayer's appear to not give much of a dam anyway and at anytime as to where or how their tax dollars are being blown every year by our own corrupt and incompetent Canadian politicians. I am surprised that here in Canada we do not see the same thing happening here in Canada where we see garbage in the streets and polluted rivers. I guess that the more new foreign immigrants that our politicians keep bringing into Canada it could one day end up looking like a 3rd world country one day. Hey, you never know, eh? The PPC will make it easier for corporations to want to invest here in Canada and which should allow more Canadians to have more children and rely less on immigration.  Maybe what both party's should do is to sit down together and see if we can come together as one in some way. Would that work for you? 

[Army Guy]

On 4/13/2020 at 12:42 PM, Michael Hardner said:

If there is hope, Winston wrote, it lies in the Red Tories.  Do they still exist ?  Are they willing to show themselves and ignore the frothing conservative fringe that demands UN withdrawal, ending refugee programs and ignoring climate change ?  

Red Tories, do they exist ? Scheer is as close to red as it gets, most Canadians where calling him Liberal lite, Ya he had a few blue ideas, but the rest of them were taken from the Liberal lefts play book. Because those ideas were what was popular with the Canadians public at the time, according to polls, because Scheer did nothing without a poll...

Demanding withdrawal from the UN is not just coming from the frothing conservative fringes as you suggest, it is seen as an old organization that needs to be modernized , completely torn down and rebuilt. ...It's coming from across the political spectrum, As the UN continues to produce very little results for the amount of funding it gets. We've had this conversation a ways back, and the left continues to spew that it does plenty of good work , even mentioned the WHO in their posts, and today the WHO is looking like any other UN department , corrupt, heavily influenced by dictators, with a completely different view of how the UN should run or was suppose to be run. Most of it's departments are no more than failures. And yet the left still shouts we know it has problems BUT....we need to keep it , because it might do some good later...Now here is a good laugh for you, China has been appointed to the Human rights council,to identify threats to free speech. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8187713/China-appointed-position-Human-Rights-Council-despite-long-record-human-rights.html

Ending refugee programs, That was not a conservative issue (PPC), (but thats what the left heard) it was all about reducing them , something that the left can not mange to even discuss with out their heads exploding. Not saying your in this category Michael , but the left has a large fringe group of it's own.

Climate change , I am just curious how much Justins Current Climate change plan has got us to our Paris agreement goals, I  mean it took 4 years of study to determine  climate change Barbie plan was not up to the challenge, they were afraid if they had told Canadians the truth about the real numbers we would have left them without a single vote, so they lied to the people. Yes the left likes to be lied to, they thrive on it...as proven by so many other scandals that has rocked the country but not liberal voters...it harden their resolve...

And now we find our selves in a pandemic, and Justin crew is thinking about ramming his new adjusted figures so he can some how meet or come closer to the Paris agreement numbers.  His plan does nothing for climate change, we are not investing in green tech, or green initiatives, or the next fossil fuel replacement, instead he taxes the shit of fossil fuels and then takes that money and gives it right back to the tax payer....WTF... make fossil fuels to expensive to use and people will stop using them, nice plan...liberals defend it as "well atleast it is something". Shit pre schoolers could come up with a better plan...They could also come up with a better climate plan than the cons, greens, and NDP....Now if you speak out against the plan your one of those frothing conservative fringe wingnuts.... 

 

[myata]

What can you not understand in "failed system"? The system allows only two places and those already taken. What will it take to get it, no point in calling when the line is connected only to the outer space. Don't play ants in a single loop maze wise entitled to their lifetime entitlements folk look at and chuckle. Get rid of FPTP first, then create parties, not the other way around, silly.

[myata]

11 hours ago, Contrarian said:

? I think you can be a good centrist, you just have to let go of your negativity about the current system. Anarchy has no future. 

Your laugh is only about yourself, that amazing inability to see and take in the obvious. In FPTP there are no "parties". What we have here has very little to do with normal parliamentary system, process and parties only one honest and objective look would suffice to see that.

Here, for you only, though not much hope.

It worked for centuries in one (only) country exactly because it's a singular, one of the kind exception. It has conventions, traditions lifestyles and cycles tied into it all the things unique and singular. Has not been reproduced anywhere else.

In the US, they are not parliamentary parties, rather loose associations-coalitions of independent and genuine representatives, with an extensive system of checks, controls and transparency.

And in Canada and other former colonies, they are only management corporations with thin democratic decorations. Not representatives, obviously. Not parliamentary parties representing an accurate picture of the voters. Just none of that, obviously. And you can read it right in the official documents, here, "employees of the Crown" what "representatives", where?

The bottom line: if you call it the same word, it doesn't make it same thing! A piece of dung with "apple" written on it, makes it an instant apple, right? Oh so funny... democracy and democrats.

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by myata