Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

Shady · April 10, 2020

37 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Well sure it was banned, just no more effectively than using a piece of Swiss Cheese for a face mask is all. The ban will provide a text book example of how to increase complacency and a false sense of security. Just like mandatory face masks will.

I'm pretty sure you'd still be pleading lies and fake news if they didn't pretend and did warn Trump or someone who certainly should have. My guess is that you can't stand ever agreeing with something once you've decided to disagree with it.

That’s just not true. Something like 400,000 people came from China in the previous few months before the ban. Only a small fraction after that. Most of which were American citizens coming back home.

WestCanMan · April 10, 2020

3 hours ago, Argus said:

If you have evidence of him firing public servants for doing their jobs, let us know. So far all I know about are politicians.

OMG that's a ripe distinction. He fired the AG for being a decent person and doing the right thing.

The PM shouldn't create a law just to help a criminal organization escape penalties, and when he does, the AG shouldn't be forced to use it when it doesn't apply due to the serious nature of the crimes. You should learn that.

WestCanMan · April 10, 2020

Guys just a reminder, this thread is about Trudeau's blatant stupidity and epic failures during the covid crisis.

If any of Trudeau's apologists has any evidence of something that Trudeau did to slow the spread of the virus into and around Canada prior to March 19th (just 8 days before the whole country was shut down, including outdoor parks of 400 sq km) that would be an awesome defence for him.

Otherwise, he's the king of "too much nothing for too long".

WestCanMan · April 10, 2020

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Well sure it was banned, just no more effectively than using a piece of Swiss Cheese for a face mask is all. The ban will provide a text book example of how to increase complacency and a false sense of security. Just like mandatory face masks will.

I'm pretty sure you'd still be pleading lies and fake news if they didn't pretend and did warn Trump or someone who certainly should have. My guess is that you can't stand ever agreeing with something once you've decided to disagree with it.

Yeah in the event of another pandemic like this I'm sure that no one will put a travel ban on people coming from the center of the outbreak Eyenstein.

Countries will rush to follow Trudeau's lead, and allow travellers with a high likelihood of infection to come into their country unscreened and unquarantined for 90 days after the start of the viral outbreak, and then shut down their country after just another 9 days.

Lots of people want you to run for PM eyeball. Pretty much anyone who wants the earth's population to drop drastically.

Edited April 10, 2020 by WestCanMan

eyeball · April 10, 2020

4 hours ago, Shady said:

That’s just not true. Something like 400,000 people came from China in the previous few months before the ban. Only a small fraction after that. Most of which were American citizens coming back home.

Yes I realize there was no ban and that one 10th of 400000 = a piddling 40000 people - processed thru a screening system that was about as effective as a face mask made of Swiss cheese.

You make it sound like American citizens are less likely COVID-19 carriers and of less concern or something.

eyeball · April 10, 2020

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Guys just a reminder, this thread is about Trudeau's blatant stupidity and epic failures during the covid crisis.

If any of Trudeau's apologists has any evidence of something that Trudeau did to slow the spread of the virus into and around Canada prior to March 19th (just 8 days before the whole country was shut down, including outdoor parks of 400 sq km) that would be an awesome defence for him.

Trudeau did the best thing he could have done which is recognize his limits not politicize the issue keep out of the way of federal and provincial health authorities and experts and leave it up to them stop the spread of the virus.

Do you have any evidence at all that quantifies the damage done in terms of actual numbers of infected or dead people you're attributing to inaction? Usually if there'a a big enough hue and cry over something like this a think tank such as the Fraser Institute or CD Howe actually gather and analyze data and crunch hard numbers and produce a case that's built on expertise in such matters.

Argus is usually on this sort of thing like a fly on shit but there's been nothing.

eyeball · April 10, 2020

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Yeah in the event of another pandemic like this I'm sure that no one will put a travel ban on people coming from the center of the outbreak Eyenstein.

Countries will rush to follow Trudeau's lead, and allow travellers with a high likelihood of infection to come into their country unscreened and unquarantined for 90 days after the start of the viral outbreak, and then shut down their country after just another 9 days.

I'm pretty sure airliners will be shot out of the sky before they get within a 1000 km of North America.

Quote

Lots of people want you to run for PM eyeball. Pretty much anyone who wants the earth's population to drop drastically.

Do you you have a poll or survey that quantifies how many that actually is?

bush_cheney2004 · April 10, 2020

The long knives are now coming out....so predictable after the body counts go up:

Quote

Briefing notes prepared by bureaucrats for federal ministers show just how quickly the COVID-19 situation evolved in Canada — with public health officials stating the risk of transmission in Canada was low right up until early March, only to recommend an ordered shutdown of economic life in this country some two weeks later.

...According to talking points prepared for a Jan. 30 call with her provincial and territorial counterparts, Hajdu said preventing the virus from arriving in Canada was "next to impossible" because of the nature of global travel.

"What really counts is limiting its impact and controlling its spread once it gets here," the talking point reads.

Three days later, the U.S. barred all non-citizens coming from China from entering the country.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-government-documents-1.5528726

Shady · April 10, 2020

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

Yes I realize there was no ban and that one 10th of 400000 = a piddling 40000 people - processed thru a screening system that was about as effective as a face mask made of Swiss cheese.

You make it sound like American citizens are less likely COVID-19 carriers and of less concern or something.

I’m sorry but that’s just not true. Regardless Trudeau was late to restrict travel, and now we’re paying the consequences. He’s saying that our peak won’t be until the end of May because the virus got to us later than in the United States. There’s plenty of topics related to Trump. This one is about Trudeau and his failings.

Zeitgeist · April 10, 2020

5 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

The long knives are now coming out....so predictable after the body counts go up:

The travel ban, while helpful, wasn’t especially useful because there was no strong public health policy to deal with preventing the spread once it arrived, which it had before Trump stopped the flights from China. That was the bigger issue. However, Trudeau should also have stopped flights from hotspots. We know now that New York’s early cases likely came from Europe, not China. Trump’s travel ban didn’t prevent that. The reality is that our citizens needed a way to come home. The virus doesn’t care about race or citizenship, so yes, some of these travellers brought the virus with them. In Canada we know there were early Iranian cases, yet the flights continued.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Zeitgeist

Argus · April 10, 2020

Even the CBC is now coming out with stories detailing how slow the Trudeau government was in responding to this. Even into March they were saying there was little danger to Canada. The more we see of this sort of thing the more we realize how complete the failure was on the part of public health bureaucrats across the country.

Briefing notes prepared by bureaucrats for federal ministers show just how quickly the COVID-19 situation evolved in Canada — with public health officials stating the risk of transmission in Canada was low right up until early March, only to recommend an ordered shutdown of economic life in this country some two weeks later.

A March 10 department-drafted briefing note prepared for Health Minister Patty Hajdu ahead of question period said that, with just 12 cases being reported nationwide at that point, "the risk of spread of this virus within Canada remains low at this time." The note also said the public health system is "well-equipped to contain cases coming from abroad, limiting the spread in Canada."

A month later, Canada has more than 21,000 cases.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-government-documents-1.5528726

Argus · April 10, 2020

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Guys just a reminder, this thread is about Trudeau's blatant stupidity and epic failures during the covid crisis.

If any of Trudeau's apologists has any evidence of something that Trudeau did to slow the spread of the virus into and around Canada prior to March 19th (just 8 days before the whole country was shut down, including outdoor parks of 400 sq km) that would be an awesome defence for him.

I think one of the reasons there's so much talk of Trump is that almost no one is apologizing for Trudeau's failures. On the other hand, if anyone brings up Trump's failures cult members like you squeal like stuck pigs, run around in circles shrieking in anger and wetting yourselves.

Zeitgeist · April 10, 2020

1 minute ago, Argus said:

Even the CBC is now coming out with stories detailing how slow the Trudeau government was in responding to this. Even into March they were saying there was little danger to Canada. The more we see of this sort of thing the more we realize how complete the failure was on the part of public health bureaucrats across the country.

Briefing notes prepared by bureaucrats for federal ministers show just how quickly the COVID-19 situation evolved in Canada — with public health officials stating the risk of transmission in Canada was low right up until early March, only to recommend an ordered shutdown of economic life in this country some two weeks later.

A March 10 department-drafted briefing note prepared for Health Minister Patty Hajdu ahead of question period said that, with just 12 cases being reported nationwide at that point, "the risk of spread of this virus within Canada remains low at this time." The note also said the public health system is "well-equipped to contain cases coming from abroad, limiting the spread in Canada."

A month later, Canada has more than 21,000 cases.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-government-documents-1.5528726

I remember the days the crisis hit home. Countries started closing school systems and by the 12th the writing was on the wall.

Argus · April 10, 2020

The lack of awareness on the part of public health agencies on what was to come, the lack of intelligence or even basic common sense, is partly detailed here.

And a 2018 article, archived in the U.S. National Library of Medicine, reported that the GPHIN was in need of modernization and had turned to the National Research Council in Canada to "rejuvenate" its software, systems and tools.

Wark said Canada's pandemic early warning system is a shambles.

"We put all our faith in a system of open reporting through the WHO. We should instead have applied the old adage — trust but verify."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/coronavirus-pandemic-covid-canadian-military-intelligence-wuhan-1.5528381

Argus · April 10, 2020

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

OMG that's a ripe distinction. He fired the AG for being a decent person and doing the right thing.

Just as your new god did.

Argus · April 10, 2020

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The travel ban, while helpful, wasn’t especially useful because there was no strong public health policy to deal with preventing the spread once it arrived, which it had before Trump stopped the flights from China. That was the bigger issue. However, Trudeau should also have stopped flights from hotspots. We know now that New York’s early cases likely came from Europe, not China. Trump’s travel ban didn’t prevent that. The reality is that our citizens needed a way to come home. The virus doesn’t care about race or citizenship, so yes, some of these travellers brought the virus with them. I Canada we know there were early Iranian cases, yet the flights continued.

We should have imposed a travel ban immediately, first for China, then Iran, and we should have done airport and border screening and imposed quarantines on those returning. We didn't do that because of political correctness, because the Liberals didn't want to annoy China or be seen as singling out Chinese-Canadians - much less Iranian-Canadians who are big Liberal Party supporters.

Zeitgeist · April 10, 2020

1 minute ago, Argus said:

We should have imposed a travel ban immediately, first for China, then Iran, and we should have done airport and border screening and imposed quarantines on those returning. We didn't do that because of political correctness, because the Liberals didn't want to annoy China or be seen as singling out Chinese-Canadians - much less Iranian-Canadians who are big Liberal Party supporters.

You’re right. Trudeau refused to do travel bans for political reasons. I do wonder though if, like the refugee influx, this was somewhat supported by the Yank administration because it gave Americans a way to return home from China and Iran, through Canada. This is where Trudeau is weak. He puts liberal ideology ahead of what is in the public interest.

Argus · April 10, 2020

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re right. Trudeau refused to do travel bans for political reasons. I do wonder though if, like the refugee influx, this was somewhat supported by the Yank administration because it gave Americans a way to return home from China and Iran, through Canada. This is where Trudeau is weak. He puts liberal ideology ahead of what is in the public interest.

I'm not completely blaming Trudeau. Yes, his government was horrible, but we can't expect much better from them. I can't say I'm surprised or disappointment they would put political correctness ahead of doing what was smart or right. That's their thing. But Canada's public health 'experts', whether at Health Canada or public health were completely incompetent in both preparing for an epidemic and in warning this was coming. They were smug, cocky, confident and arrogant and didn't even bother to really look into what was going on. They should all be fired, starting with Theresa Tam, and going down the list to all the idiots at Health Canada who advised the minister.

Zeitgeist · April 10, 2020

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

I'm not completely blaming Trudeau. Yes, his government was horrible, but we can't expect much better from them. I can't say I'm surprised or disappointment they would put political correctness ahead of doing what was smart or right. That's their thing. But Canada's public health 'experts', whether at Health Canada or public health were completely incompetent in both preparing for an epidemic and in warning this was coming. They were smug, cocky, confident and arrogant and didn't even bother to really look into what was going on. They should all be fired, starting with Theresa Tam, and going down the list to all the idiots at Health Canada who advised the minister.

I’m not sure others would have done much better though. I don’t think even the so called experts saw this coming. Perhaps they should have. Few sounded the alarm. There was no Churchill. Maybe South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore were more tuned in.

Argus · April 10, 2020

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m not sure others would have done much better though. I don’t think even the so called experts saw this coming. Perhaps they should have. Few sounded the alarm. There was no Churchill. Maybe South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore were more tuned in.

So was Australia. But the information was there easy to see. You didn't have to be a genius, especially when it's your job to watch out for such things, especially, as in Public Health Canada, when your whole agency was created for such a thing. Yet there was Tam blithely telling us not to worry, carry on, don't block the borders, don't screen people, don't make them isolate, don't wear masks. And she was the one advising that hapless idiot Trudeau. Talk about the blind leading the blind!

Rue · April 10, 2020

45 minutes ago, Argus said:

I think one of the reasons there's so much talk of Trump is that almost no one is apologizing for Trudeau's failures. On the other hand, if anyone brings up Trump's failures cult members like you squeal like stuck pigs, run around in circles shrieking in anger and wetting yourselves.

Might be people do see the same failures in Trudeau, Trump, Dr. Tam, whoever, but don't need an apology because they realize with some issues even the smartest people make mistakes or have no perfect aswers so there aint no point pissin on a man or woman trying to do their best. Regards, Will Rogers

Edited April 10, 2020 by Rue

bush_cheney2004 · April 10, 2020

49 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The travel ban, while helpful, wasn’t especially useful because there was no strong public health policy to deal with preventing the spread once it arrived, which it had before Trump stopped the flights from China. That was the bigger issue. However, Trudeau should also have stopped flights from hotspots. We know now that New York’s early cases likely came from Europe, not China. Trump’s travel ban didn’t prevent that. The reality is that our citizens needed a way to come home. The virus doesn’t care about race or citizenship, so yes, some of these travellers brought the virus with them. In Canada we know there were early Iranian cases, yet the flights continued.

Difficult as it may be to implement, future responses should invoke complete travel bans. Constitutional protections for the right to return are moot if transportation is not available. The difference between imported virus and community spread is real, but one does not force acquiescence to the other.

Trump's instincts were more correct than Trudeau's, and he was criticized for travel bans, but it was later than needed.

WestCanMan · April 10, 2020

46 minutes ago, Argus said:

I think one of the reasons there's so much talk of Trump is that almost no one is apologizing for Trudeau's failures.

In general, Canadians don't have to apologize for Trudeau's failures because the MSM here isn't talking about them at all, as usual. They're covering for covid just like they haven't said a word about SNC for months now.

There are some attempts here to deflect blame from Trudeau by using idiotic attacks against Trump, which were made by the MSM from Canada and the US, but that's the new normal.

Quote

On the other hand, if anyone brings up Trump's failures cult members like you squeal like stuck pigs, run around in circles shrieking in anger and wetting yourselves.

Which one of us is "squealing like a stuck pig, running around in circles, shrieking in anger and wetting themselves"?

Your reply came to a post which offered a specific question which you didn't have an appropriate answer for:

Quote

If any of Trudeau's apologists has any evidence of something that Trudeau did to slow the spread of the virus into and around Canada prior to March 19th (just 8 days before the whole country was shut down, including outdoor parks of 400 sq km) that would be an awesome defence for him.

There are all sorts of people running around chucking crap at Trump for what he did re: covid, and defending Trudeau's response to covid (which included lies, misinformation, attacks on precautions taken by Trump that turned out to be prudent and saved lives), but no one has been able to say what Trudeau did before Trump, or better than Trump.

You failed as well.

It's weird to see you be a conservative regarding Canadian politics, using facts and logic in threads about Trudeau, and then act like a liberal snowflake re: American politics, throwing out platitudes and childish insults in lieu of facts.

bush_cheney2004 · April 10, 2020

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

In general, Canadians don't have to apologize for Trudeau's failures because the MSM here isn't talking about them at all, as usual. They're covering for covid just like they haven't said a word about SNC for months now.

There are some attempts here to deflect blame from Trudeau by using idiotic attacks against Trump, which were made by the MSM from Canada and the US, but that's the new normal.

Yes, it is fascinating to watch this in Canadian media and reader comments. Deflections to Trump are reflexive and expected, just like any other controversy in Canada. "But Trump is worse !" is the common refrain.

Methinks it is a permanent attribute for some (not all) of the Canadian psyche and identity....so why would it be any different now ?

American media has been ripping Trump for three years without any need to point at Trudeau's failings (or successes) to compensate.

Shady · April 10, 2020

28 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

In general, Canadians don't have to apologize for Trudeau's failures because the MSM here isn't talking about them at all, as usual. They're covering for covid just like they haven't said a word about SNC for months now.

There are some attempts here to deflect blame from Trudeau by using idiotic attacks against Trump, which were made by the MSM from Canada and the US, but that's the new normal.

Which one of us is "squealing like a stuck pig, running around in circles, shrieking in anger and wetting themselves"?

Your reply came to a post which offered a specific question which you didn't have an appropriate answer for:

There are all sorts of people running around chucking crap at Trump for what he did re: covid, and defending Trudeau's response to covid (which included lies, misinformation, attacks on precautions taken by Trump that turned out to be prudent and saved lives), but no one has been able to say what Trudeau did before Trump, or better than Trump.

You failed as well.

It's weird to see you be a conservative regarding Canadian politics, using facts and logic in threads about Trudeau, and then act like a liberal snowflake re: American politics, throwing out platitudes and childish insults in lieu of facts.

I’ve said for a long time that Trump makes people behave in ways they normally wouldn’t. This goes for politicians, media and journalists, and regular people.