The Coronavirus

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, pinky tuscadero said:

Look at the below numbers (again) and all the sourced material here (including experts in epidemiology/virology, etc.), hundreds of hours of research to comb through.

A rational/cognitive person cannot look at this evidence and conclude the lockdown of society was warranted.

Annual deaths from seasonal flu - 650 000 (5 000 000 severe illnesses)

Corona deaths - 170 455 (2 481 866 cases worldwide with most showing no or mild symptoms)

 

There are none so blind, as those who refuse to see.

 

 

 

Except that this virus hasn’t been in full swing here for more than a few months.  Three seasons to go before you can compare annual data.  

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

For all the bunk about this being no worse than the flu. 

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Today the US passed 45,000 COVID-19 related deaths. Maybe 6 weeks after it was taken seriously and numbers started to pile up. 

I thought the CDC subsequently revised that number.Look at data over a few more years.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden-averted/2017-2018.htm

Quote

CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2017–2018 season was high with an estimated 45 million people getting sick with influenza, 21 million people going to a health care provider, 810,000 hospitalizations, and 61,000 deaths from influenza. The number of cases of influenza-associated illness that occurred during 2017-2018 was the highest since the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, when an estimated 60 million people were sick with influenza

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

...  I think politically Germany is the wise broker in Europe right now, like Canada in North America.  

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this....because when it comes to COVID19....Mexico is doing much better than Canada or the United States so far.

Canada likes to think of itself as an honest (wise ?) broker, but it really has no other choice or cards to play, worshiping at the UN alter of multilateralism and globalism.

 

 

[Argus]

Sooo about that wonderdrug Trump and all his acolytes have been screaming about...

A VA coronavirus study finds hydroxychloroquine results in more patient deaths

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it's the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2020/04/21/va-coronavirus-study/

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Shady said:

Because too little is still known about it.

I agree little is known, but I don't think that explains the worldwide reaction.  Someone knows more about this than I do.

[OftenWrong]

10 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

 Sweden is not the study in completely ignoring Covid 19 that some are making it out to be.

No, but Sweden is a good model for what we should be doing without causing excessive damage.

No one is suggesting to ignore Covid.

[Shady]

16 minutes ago, Argus said:

Sooo about that wonderdrug Trump and all his acolytes have been screaming about...

A VA coronavirus study finds hydroxychloroquine results in more patient deaths

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it's the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/nation-world/2020/04/21/va-coronavirus-study/

The treatment touted was hydroxychloroquine in unison with Zithromax.  Which some small studies show works very well.  Furthermore, there are different stages of use for these drugs that can yield different results.  That’s what the clinic trials will hopefully hash out.  

[Shady]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not true.  Our public health policy was clear, persistent, and country-wide.  Only some states had implemented what we were doing across most of the country.  

No that’s not true.  Not all provinces adhered to guidelines at the same time.  But yes, depending on when some states had cases, they acted earlier than everyone.  Like California.

[bush_cheney2004]

25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I agree little is known, but I don't think that explains the worldwide reaction.  Someone knows more about this than I do.

 

I am surprised by just how little is known about this virus and pathology based on previous coronavirus outbreaks, and how much variation there is for what is known.    The epidemiologists have been chasing the problem instead of being ahead of it.   I understand their caution, but there is too much uncertainty and guarded pronouncements for fear of being wrong.     "We don't think so" is not a very confident answer.

 

[OftenWrong]

40 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I agree little is known, but I don't think that explains the worldwide reaction.  Someone knows more about this than I do.

No doubt Lemmings hold the same opinion as they march to their oblivion.

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I am surprised by just how little is known about this virus and pathology based on previous coronavirus outbreaks, and how much variation there is for what is known.    The epidemiologists have been chasing the problem instead of being ahead of it.   I understand their caution, but there is too much uncertainty and guarded pronouncements for fear of being wrong.     "We don't think so" is not a very confident answer.

I agree with the apparent broad consensus of medical experts maintaining the need for a precautionary approach in the face of such uncertainty but I feel the opposite when it comes to the certainty of predictions of devastation if economists aren't unleashed and allowed to trump real scientists. Economists after all are just social scientists right?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

No doubt Lemmings hold the same opinion as they march to their oblivion.

Well, I certainly don't claim to know as much about what motivates lemmings as you do.

[OftenWrong]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Well, I certainly don't claim to know as much about what motivates lemmings as you do.

Doesn't seem you know very much at all then about the virus, or lemmings.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Doesn't seem you know very much at all then about the virus, or lemmings.

Nope, that's why I rely on experts, and pay little attention to forum lemming whisperers.

[OftenWrong]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Nope, that's why I rely on experts, and pay little attention to forum lemming whisperers.

I used to rely on experts, until people started calling me one. Then I realized experts are really just people full of crap.

[bush_cheney2004]

15 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Nope, that's why I rely on experts, and pay little attention to forum lemming whisperers.

 

Experts are fine when they confidently know their stuff, backed up by "the science".    But there has also been some guessing and misses on this virus and protective measures.    Example:    the wearing of masks was discouraged to preserve "PPE" for health care workers when we could have easily rolled our own and donned them early on to reduce the spread, as was done in several Asian countries. 

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Experts are fine when they confidently know their stuff, backed up by "the science".    But there has also been some guessing and misses on this virus and protective measures.    Example:    the wearing of masks was discouraged to preserve "PPE" for health care workers when we could have easily rolled our own and donned them early on to reduce the spread, as was done in several Asian countries. 

 

There was certainly a lot of guessing, early on.  There still is, I think.

Edit> For instance, I was just reading that Germany was relaxing lockdown restrictions, and cancelling Oktoberfest.  Talk about mixed messages...

Edited April 22, 2020 by bcsapper

[Iceni warrior]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

No, but Sweden is a good model for what we should be doing without causing excessive damage.

 

How? What's the point in keeping bars and shops open if they are running at a loss anyway because people are choosing to stay at home?

 

[OftenWrong]

4 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

How? What's the point in keeping bars and shops open if they are running at a loss anyway because people are choosing to stay at home?

 

Businesses can run at a loss for a while, lots do. But they cannot run at all if they are closed.

All of our restaurants are open for take-out orders. Even the high end ones are doing that, and they say the business is steady. They are not running with all of their staff, only a smaller crew but it is still better than shuttering the business.

[cougar]

3 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

How? What's the point in keeping bars and shops open if they are running at a loss anyway because people are choosing to stay at home?

 

It will minimize their loss and allows them to carry on for a longer period than if the just shut down.  They still have to pay rent and utilities when closed. Let alone the prospect of losing their employees and being unable to start again.

Edited April 22, 2020 by cougar

[eric090]

 

newtheblog

Edited April 22, 2020 by eric090

[OftenWrong]

People are tying to say what I`ve been saying. Will they be heard, or will you dismiss them a Nazis, as you have done to me.

UN is warning of a coming worldwide famine of `biblical proportions`.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/africa/coronavirus-famine-un-warning-intl/index.html

Quote

London (CNN)The world is facing multiple famines of "biblical proportions" in just a matter of months, the UN has said, warning that the coronavirus pandemic will push an additional 130 million people to the brink of starvation.

Famines could take hold in "about three dozen countries" in a worst-case scenario, the executive director of the World Food Programme (WFP) said in a stark address on Tuesday. Ten of those countries already have more than 1 million people on the verge of starvation, he said.

He cited conflict, an economic recession, a decline in aid and a collapse in oil prices as factors likely to lead to vast food shortages, and urged swift action to avert disaster.

"While dealing with a Covid-19 pandemic, we are also on the brink of a hunger pandemic," David Beasley told the UN's security council. "There is also a real danger that more people could potentially die from the economic impact of Covid-19 than from the virus itself."

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by OftenWrong

[Boges]

13 hours ago, Shady said:

The treatment touted was hydroxychloroquine in unison with Zithromax.  Which some small studies show works very well.  Furthermore, there are different stages of use for these drugs that can yield different results.  That’s what the clinic trials will hopefully hash out.  

Ahhh so now you're happy to await clinical trials. Remember when 45 said, Take It, what do you have to lose? 

Regardless a drug like this will probably only be used to take someone back from the brink. 

What's needed are drugs that keep symptoms manageable so people don't have to go to a hospital in the first place. Such as Tamiflu. 

Once you're in the hospital, the virus has already made you a statistical victim as you're using up healthcare capital during a Pandemic. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Boges

[Shady]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

People are tying to say what I`ve been saying. Will they be heard, or will you dismiss them a Nazis, as you have done to me.

UN is warning of a coming worldwide famine of `biblical proportions`.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/africa/coronavirus-famine-un-warning-intl/index.html

 

Exactly.  Somehow the economic impact, as well as the health impact of the shutdown can't even be considered.  You must not even mention it or you're the worst person in the world.  It's ridiculous.  It's like Voldemort from Harry Potter or something.  Screw it if drug abuse increases, alcohol abuse, domestic violence, suicide, people's livelihoods are destroyed, we got people over 70 that we need to ensure live a couple more years.  Saving the 1.5% of old at the expense of 40% of the young and their children is apparently the smart policy.

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, Shady said:

Exactly.  Somehow the economic impact, as well as the health impact of the shutdown can't even be considered.  You must not even mention it or you're the worst person in the world.  It's ridiculous.  It's like Voldemort from Harry Potter or something.  Screw it if drug abuse increases, alcohol abuse, domestic violence, suicide, people's livelihoods are destroyed, we got people over 70 that we need to ensure live a couple more years.  Saving the 1.5% of old at the expense of 40% of the young and their children is apparently the smart policy.

And the impacts of not trying to prevent the mortality rate seen in certain nations in Europe isn't considered by the likes of you. 

When you have hundreds (thousands in the case of the US) dying each day above and beyond dying in ways people usually die that has an even more dire economic impact. 

If we hadn't stopped people going to malls, stadiums, churches, beaches, movie theatres, restaurants etc. Imagine the death toll then.