The Coronavirus

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s not that simple.  The essential workers will eventually resent shouldering the burden of providing the food and services.

Giving rise to sentiments displayed in the Tea Party video I posted above. That's really the worst thing we have to overcome? Did you know the protestor came to be ashamed of what he did and apologized to the guy?

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

The same way there can be a half measured flight ban, sloppy execution.  American right wingers are the LAST people I'd put in charge of anything to do with it. In any case...

 

American right wingers are the least of your problems in Canada.

Edited April 12, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Shady]

Bill Maher drops a truth bomb and it’s magnificent!

https://youtu.be/dEfDwc2G2_8

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Shady

[Shady]

 

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Giving rise to sentiments displayed in the Tea Party video I posted above. That's really the worst thing we have to overcome? Did you know the protestor came to be ashamed of what he did and apologized to the guy?

Those guys are ignorant, insensitive jerks.  I would never support an end to disability support.  I’m talking about something entirely different.  Being over-employed is a problem just as being under-employed is a problem.  We risk prolonging both and destroying the economy unnecessarily.  I think if we don’t have the first phase of return to work implemented by the end of May , the cure is worse than the disease.   

Edited April 12, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Shady]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Those guys are ignorant, insensitive jerks.  I would never support an end to disability support.  I’m talking about something entirely different.  Being over-employed is a problem just as being under-employed is a problem.  We risk prolonging both and destroying the economy unnecessarily.  I think if we don’t have the first phase of return to work implemented by the end of May , the cure is worse than the disease.   

I would suggest sooner than that.  There’s no reason that businesses can’t open up but at the same time practice mitigation and social distancing, masks, gloves, standing far enough apart, wishing hands, using sanitizer etc.  Those that are high risk can stay in some type of quarantine, especially nursing homes.

[Zeitgeist]

16 minutes ago, Shady said:

Bill Maher drops a truth bomb and it’s magnificent!

https://youtu.be/dEfDwc2G2_8

 

I agree.  I think we have to continuously remind China that it is a breeding ground for new deadly viruses.  Close down the fucking wet markets and smarten up in a number of areas or face major trade constraints.  

Edited April 12, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Rue]

14 hours ago, bcsapper said:

You saw it coming and ducked.  Good job.  As for your assertion that we can stop contributing to it and making it worse, I don't think we will.  In fact, I'll go so far as to say the first full year we are past this Covid thing will see the biggest annual increase in atmospheric CO2 concentrations this century.

You heard it here first, folk.

I hope you are wrong but probably...

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Those guys are ignorant, insensitive jerks.  I would never support an end to disability support.  I’m talking about something entirely different.  Being over-employed is a problem just as being under-employed is a problem.  We risk prolonging both and destroying the economy unnecessarily.  I think if we don’t have the first phase of return to work implemented by the end of May , the cure is worse than the disease.   

Listen more carefully to that video, those insensitive jerks were talking about the prime imperative I mentioned...the people hollering communist and no hand outs are mirrored in hundreds of posts in this forum and thousands upon millions of posts and op-eds and comments found elsewhere around the Internet.  This is a disease on top of a malaise that's been with us a for a very long long time. This unthinking hatred, resentment and jealously associated with free stuff probably stems from more ancient outmoded thinking that incorporates nonsense about idle hands and Satan.

We're heading into a bottleneck - social, economic, cultural, national, international, individually, collectively but above all else moral.  It'll be a very tight squeeze. Trying to push it thru faster like it was toothpaste could easily tip this into the real Zombie Apocalypse.  

Oh well, got popcorn?

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Listen more carefully to that video, those insensitive jerks were talking about the prime imperative I mentioned...the people hollering communist and no hand outs are mirrored in hundreds of posts in this forum and thousands upon millions of posts and op-eds and comments found elsewhere around the Internet.  This is a disease on top of a malaise that's been with us a for a very long long time. This unthinking hatred, resentment and jealously associated with free stuff probably stems from more ancient outmoded thinking that incorporates nonsense about idle hands and Satan.

We're heading into a bottleneck - social, economic, cultural, national, international, individually, collectively but above all else moral.  It'll be a very tight squeeze. Trying to push it thru faster like it was toothpaste could easily tip this into the real Zombie Apocalypse.  

Oh well, got popcorn?

I’ve never seen a more zombie-like society than the one we’re in now.  Anything proactive is criticized and people are immobilized by fear instead of looking seriously at how best to reanimate.  People are literally shutting down.  

Edited April 12, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’ve never seen a more zombie-like society than the on we’re in now.  Anything proactive is criticized and people are immobilized by fear instead of looking seriously go best to reanimate.  People are literally shutting down.  

I should have added psychologically to the list.

Like I said, its a disease on a malaise.  Our world has underlying issues that make it as compromised to this virus as high blood pressure and diabetes makes a human more susceptible to it.

Edited April 12, 2020 by eyeball

[eyeball]

When the waterhole gets smaller the animals get meaner. The question is are we just animals or can we choose to be something more?

Edited April 12, 2020 by eyeball

[SpankyMcFarland]

Nobel prize winning economist Paul Romer suggests testing everybody on a fortnightly basis: 
 

Quote

The key, says Romer, is repeatedly testing everyone without symptoms to identify who is infected. (People with symptoms should just be assumed to have covid-19 and treated accordingly.) All those who test positive should isolate themselves; those who test negative can return to work, traveling, and socializing, but they should be tested every two weeks or so. If you’re negative, you might have a card saying so that allows you to get on an airplane or freely enter a restaurant.
 

...Romer points to new, faster diagnostic tests, including ones from Silicon Valley’s Cepheid and from the drug giant Roche. Each of Roche’s best machines can handle 4,200 tests a day; build five thousand of those machines, and you can test 20 million people a day. “It’s well within our capacity,” he says. “We just need to bend some metal and make some machines.” If you can identify and isolate those infected with the virus, you can let the rest of the population go back to business.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

One could argue about who should be going back to work - people who are negative for the virus or those who have recovered from it and have IgG antibodies against it - but a massive scale-up of testing seems reasonable. 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[OftenWrong]

19 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think if we don’t have the first phase of return to work implemented by the end of May , the cure is worse than the disease.   

I say it already is worse, for certain groups of people and by end of May all hope could already be lost. But yes, soon very soon. Impossibly soon in fact. THat is why I am saying this is not the right or acceptable approach, since it cannot be sustained long enough. The time has come to get all the shit back on. As much as I hate to say that because I cannot stand the friggin sh*t anymore.

[OftenWrong]

18 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Nobel prize winning economist Paul Romer suggests testing everybody on a fortnightly basis:

One could argue about who should be going back to work - people who are negative for the virus or those who have recovered from it and have IgG antibodies against it - but a massive scale-up of testing seems reasonable.

It might solve one problem but does it create another? I'm not with being tested on a fortnightly basis. For how long? That could go on for years.

[OftenWrong]

One can see a future post-Covid world in which people are constantly being medically tested for the presence of futuristic man-made disease. Any interaction requires medical screening prior to approval. Provide sample to continue. Alert, potential positive finding. Report immediately to local infection control for follow-up testing. Alert, positive finding. Vaccine crime suspected. Detain individual immediately in Quarantine. A bench warrant has been issued. Be on the lookout for the following persons.

Edited April 13, 2020 by OftenWrong

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

One can see a future post-Covid world in which people are constantly being medically tested for the presence of futuristic man-made disease. Any interaction requires medical screening prior to approval. Provide sample to continue. Alert, potential positive finding. Report immediately to local infection control for follow-up testing. Alert, positive finding. Vaccine crime suspected. Detain individual immediately in Quarantine. A bench warrant has been issued. Be on the lookout for the following persons.

It could become too onerous.  We need a practical back to work strategy that keeps infection rates low and tracks and isolates new cases quickly.  Hard to do, but we have no choice.  The shutdown is unsustainable.  

[Boges]

Patience for this is going to quickly dissolve. 

People can endure not going to sporting events or restaurants.

But Shopping, Haircuts, Seeing family Or Going to work? 

In Canada cases haven't skyrocketed like they have in the states.

Cases will continue to go up. But the purpose of all this wasn't to stop the infection rate, it was to buy the Healthcare system some time to absorb an influx of COVID patients. So far, mission accomplished. 

If people like Teresa Tam, The PM or other politicians keep telling people they can't see family and friends or risk penalties into May, things could get very ugly. It'll be a case of infringed freedoms and not good public health. 

[OftenWrong]

What's with this crap about keeping the lights on? Every time I come in to work, every single light is on in the building. There's only two people here. Lights on in rooms where no one is. When I shut them off, I find later someone's turned them on again.

Turns out that this person has read somewhere that light kills the virus.

Poppycock. Sheer poppycock I say!
Or else get me some light therapy, I have the virus.

Stupid fearful rabbits, maybe they think they might see the virus if they turn the lights on? Or is it just too spooky in the dark now. I can imagine their house lit up like a Hollywood film set. Sales in Metal Halides are skyrocketing.

But if you heard perhaps that sunlight can kill viruses, you might not be so far off. Sunlight contains the damaging ultraviolet and infra-red rays that have disenfectant properties. Remember when Grandma said, "Go outside and get some fresh air and sun. It's good for you." she was right.

[OftenWrong]

Just now, Boges said:

If people like Teresa Tam, The PM or other politicians keep telling people they can't see family and friends or risk penalties into May, things could get very ugly. It'll be a case of infringed freedoms and not good public health. 

They keep saying another extension. First it was bi-weekly, now monthly. We know this isn't over in a month. I thought the PM alluded to more like a year. Well, I think he said not until there's a vaccine. So in other words, the virus cannot be managed.

[Boges]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

They keep saying another extension. First it was bi-weekly, now monthly. We know this isn't over in a month. I thought the PM alluded to more like a year. Well, I think he said not until there's a vaccine. So in other words, the virus cannot be managed.

I'd like to hope he means that this "Social Distancing" stuff will be with us for awhile. People will be getting this virus and dying from it like with other ailments. 

But going forward, people aren't going to want to go to places they'll be in close contact with other people. People are going to be super vigilant about not touching their face. 

But if the "New Normal" means we have to stay in our homes 99.5% of the time for a year, then they might as well declare the War Measures Act, because that's the only way to enforce this. 

[BubberMiley]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

 

But if the "New Normal" means we have to stay in our homes 99.5% of the time for a year, then they might as well declare the War Measures Act, because that's the only way to enforce this. 

Relax. It's working. 

[Argus]

51 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It could become too onerous.  We need a practical back to work strategy that keeps infection rates low and tracks and isolates new cases quickly.  Hard to do, but we have no choice.  The shutdown is unsustainable.  

Did anyone follow the World of Warcraft epidemic? It was so surreal that real world infectious disease specialists examined it very closely to see how infectious diseases spread. One of the things that occurs to me is that there were certain people who decided to get their rocks off by spreading the disease deliberately. As soon as they got infected they'd head for the biggest groups of people they could find to infect as many as possible. It occurs to me that could well happen with some people in real life now. Or if not some of the more nasty governments or terrorist groups could decide to do it, sending infected people into enemy countries to quietly walk around spreading the disease. Given the long incubation period they could do that for a week, then return home and no one would have a clue who did it. Or, say, put a few infected people into bars frequented by American servicemen near a base. Let them infect a lot of servicemen for a couple of weeks. They return to their base, infect others, all with no one being the wiser for weeks.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Argus

[Zeitgeist]

31 minutes ago, Argus said:

Did anyone follow the World of Warcraft epidemic? It was so surreal that real world infectious disease specialists examined it very closely to see how infectious diseases spread. One of the things that occurs to me is that there were certain people who decided to get their rocks off by spreading the disease deliberately. As soon as they got infected they'd head for the biggest groups of people they could find to infect as many as possible. It occurs to me that could well happen with some people in real life now. Or if not some of the more nasty governments or terrorist groups could decide to do it, sending infected people into enemy countries to quietly walk around spreading the disease. Given the long incubation period they could do that for a week, then return home and no one would have a clue who did it. Or, say, put a few infected people into bars frequented by American servicemen near a base. Let them infect a lot of servicemen for a couple of weeks. They return to their base, infect others, all with no one being the wiser for weeks.

Yes, but how do you prevent that?  We’ve heard the same talk about contamination threats for years, but we have to live our lives.  Sadly, the solution does appear to be more surveillance. Again though, if our goal is to eliminate the virus, we may be in for an endless wait.  There may not be a vaccine.  One hasn’t been developed for HIV or many other diseases.  I think the only sane way forward is to reduce the numbers of cases and keep the levels manageable in a reduced capacity economy that maybe runs at 80% but keeps us from getting buried in crippling debt and the taxes to pay it off.   We return to work, do our best to prevent the spread, and the vulnerable have to be extra careful.  Obviously now isn’t the time for that.  Also, measures will look quite different in mega-cities as compared to the countryside.  Suburbs and countryside have an advantage now. We may miss crowded city life with all the variety and energy.  I hope we don’t lose that, but it’s gotten very quiet.  

Edited April 13, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes, but how do you prevent that?

You can't.

Quote

 We’ve heard the same talk about contamination threats for years, but we have to live our lives.

Yes, we have. But it's different now. It's been shown how easily it can be done, and how enormous the impact is. And just like one suicide or terrorist act gives the idea to others to do the same, I wonder at whether we'll start seeing that. Or even if we'll know if we do. I mean, if we get a sudden spike of cases somewhere who's to know if that was from a deliberate effort or not on the part of some asymptomatic 'super spreader'?

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Argus