Warning to All MLW Members - Fear and the Cronavirus

[Rue]

27 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

You need to think before you speak as well. 7% of the worlds closed cases, have resulted in death. That means that 7% of the people who test positive, end up dying. What will the fatality rate be, when we run out of hospitals. It could be 15% or higher.

I guess it's cheaper to watch the old people die, than spend $100 on a hazmat suit, so they can get groceries. No need to pay your pensions.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus

 

Your comments make zero sense and are also false.

You are a classic example of someone who panics and does not think.

First off you went to this site:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Then you took a look at this box:

Closed Cases

82,288

Cases which had an outcome:

76,219 (93%)

Recovered / Discharged

6,069 (7%)

Deaths

 

Then you assume from the above there is a death rate of 7% of anyone who gets the virus. You give no thought to your assumption. You just leap to the conclusion and say something absolutely stupid, that people should walk around in haz mat suits. You give no thought to the idiocy of the statement and why that would not work.

First off  before you rush to a web site and remove its information, read the whole damn thing:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

Here is why your panic and hysteria and removing a statistic out of context is  idiotic READ:

https://www.bakersfield.com/ap/national/what-is-the-fatality-rate-for-the-new-coronavirus-and/article_04c66afc-bea5-5a0a-90e7-ea2ae295532e.html

You can run around in a manic phase yipping and yapping, or you take a grip on your mania. Which one is it man because spreading bullshit hype about people dying is contemptable and irresponsible. You know better man. Stop it.

Get a damn grip:

" because the current infection count is too low, that death rate — known formally as a “case fatality rate” or “case fatality ratio” — is too high.

“That’s one thing we can pretty much say with certainty,” said Josh Michaud, who was an infectious disease epidemiologist with the Defense Department during the H1N1 influenza pandemic in 2009."

source: https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-02-11/how-deadly-is-coronavirus-fatality-rate

"As the COVID-19 spreads, scientists are learning more about the disease’s fatality rate.

“Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died,” Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the director general of the World Health Organization, said at a press briefing in Geneva. That’s more than previous estimates of around 2% and the influenza fatality rate of less than 1%.

Tedros previously said the fatality rate in Wuhan, China, considered the epicenter of the outbreak, is between 2% and 4%. Outside of Wuhan, it is thought to be closer to 0.7%, although some estimates put it at closer to 2%. The epidemic is “affecting countries in different ways,” he added.

Worldwide, there were 110,588 COVID-19 cases and 3,841 deaths as of Monday morning; 62,109 people worldwide have recovered, according to data published by the Johns Hopkins Whiting School of Engineering’s Center for Systems Science and Engineering. In the U.S., 22 people have died, and there are approximately 564 confirmed cases, Johns Hopkins added.

 

The WHO fatality rate estimate could be related to officials underestimating the number of actual cases. If infections are actually higher globally, the fatality rate would obviously fall. The more time asymptomatic people spend going about their daily lives, the more people can become infected."

source: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/coronavirus-fatality-rates-vary-wildly-depending-on-age-gender-and-medical-history-some-patients-fare-much-worse-than-others-2020-02-26

[Guest ProudConservative]

14 minutes ago, Rue said:

Your comments make zero sense and are also false.

You are a classic example of someone who panics and does not think.

Why don't you start listening to Frank Vaughan on YouTube. He ran in the PPC. Most of us seemed to like the PPC, so maybe we could trust one of our own. He explains some logic... once the hospitals get overrun and the doctor's die from the disease, the fatality rate becomes much higher. He explains the knock on effects when the system breaks down. While you're mocking everyone, they people who are panicking are actually getting prepared.

What i'm proposing is, getting Canada to produce Hazmat suits, so when the next pandemic hits. People can go to work, and not be in fear.

It's like wearing condoms. It keeps your protected.

Edited March 15, 2020 by ProudConservative

[Rue]

7 hours ago, kactus said:

On one hand you have panic 

Flattening that curve will mean compromising the health of elderlies or people with pre existing conditions that will inevitably put a strain on NHS as you suggested.

I am actually wondering as to whether the ‘herd immunity’ idea will immunise antibody and save lives for those affected? But what if the virus further mutates? Given that there is no vaccination available for C.19 this would be quite concerning...

No no and no and try educate yourself on what a virus is.

To start with all a vaccine is, is the virus. How the hell do you think it works. They give you a mild exposure to the virus to build up immunities in your system to fight it. The only way to have your body deal with a virus is to build up its immunity system so it can beat the virus.

Most viruses, the vast majority, we have a natural ability to fight. When we do not have clear stats on the actual amount of people with the virus, the fatality rate will always seem higher and that is because hundreds and thousands have the virus and never report it because they never get sick from it.

Next there is no such thing as "herd immunity". That is your twisted and incorrect misunderstanding of what a vaccine is or what exposing people to a virus that is not dangerous means.

You are panicked thinking this virus will kill you. You are hyped up from over amplification on your cell phone and internet of the subject matter and your lack of awareness and understanding of what a virus is.

To repeat again, this virus will not kill you. It is only of concern for people with compromised immunities and even then it of course does not and will not kill  ALL people with compromised immunities. No statistic is showing that. You have no clue when people die why they have died. Certain bacteria piggy back on a human when we are sick and have no immunities. You have no idea whether the human who is sick would have been exposed to those bacteria and died of them whether they had the virus or not. Many times the piggy backing on makes the bacteria show up faster but it does not mean the bacteria would not have shown up anyways virus or no virus, something you clearly can not conceive.

Viruses mutate all the time. Do you know what that means? It means they can become less deadly not necessarily more deadly. Why do you assume its a bad thing. Mutation is an evolutionary process. Everything that is a virus, a bacteria, a life form, mutates constantly. You think this is something dangerous? If it was why are homo sapiens still around? Why have we not become extinct.?Think man...those mutations are part of evolutionary change. Why are you so afraid of change?

No one flattens any curve. As statistics become more accurate they always flatten out as the pattern becomes more reported and charted. Its how numbers work as the numbers between the extreme numbers emerge. Its called quantitative statistics. Its  not a conspiracy to kill people just the opposite-the more accurate the stats become the more we know where to concentrate funding.

There has been above board precautions put in place as we are in the beginning phase of the exposure in many countries. Governments are erring on the side of caution and in the future we will probably look back at this current situation and say we over-reacted and the over-reaction caused more harm than good as it focused attention away from immunity compromised patients to the majority of individuals we should have let become naturally exposed and left alone as we do with colds and flus so we can concentrate on immune compromised people.

That is fine. They have new systems in place and this serves as a valuable test on preparation for future viruses as well.

This is an inevitable consequence of increased air travel. It is a direct result of people all over the world being so mobile. 

Disease does not stop at borders. A virus is like the movement of the tide of the ocean. You can not stop it. You can try slow it down with dykes, water walls, dams, barriers but water goes to where water  goes eventually and you have to learn to live with its natural movements not fight it unrealistically.

Humankind has felt it can rise itself above nature. Viruses are a reminder we can not. Most of us living in cities are scientifically uneducated and totally unaware of the risks around us. We are blind to the environment. Viruses remind us the environment we are blind to has components that can raise issues if we ignore those phenomena or engage in behavior that fights those phenomena unrealistically.

No one is going to die because we didn't stop the spread of a cold or a flue or anything else. They die because its part of life, and an inevitable part of life when we get to a certain age. We are not immortal. If this virus makes you feel mortal then deal with it. Deal with the fear of being unable to control. This notion or concept we have we can control everything and feel safe is something we understand with children....but as adults we must show a little calm, a little humility, an appreciation that life has always been precious but we took it for granted. It also means hoarding toilet paper, hiding, thinking this virus will vanish by telling everyone to stay home, is ridiculous. This is not a Bible story where you put lamb's blood on the door and the virus passes you by. This is not a curse from God. It is a process of human beings, homo sapiens thinking we are the only life form that should not and can not die.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Rue

[Guest ProudConservative]

Rue doesn't seem to understand significant exponential growth. Like how did we get to Norway having 4 time as many cases per capita, as China in 2 weeks?

[OftenWrong]

12 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I can't hibernate.  The planet isn't going to save itself.

Losing sleep over this now, are we? Where are you when we need you, superman. Someone put up the bat signal. Send smoke signals, Hepl.

I try to be pragmatic about these things, at least the virus is non-partisan.

[OftenWrong]

Nike reports they are shuttering all stores in America, and world-wide.
Nike to shut all its stores in the US, other parts of the world amid coronavirus fears

I fear that this is only the beginning. Other stores will begin to close one by one including malls, large retail centres, grocery stores, gas stations. Queue the mass panic, better get to Metro now and buy everything while you still can. Then make for the exit, stage left.

Edited March 15, 2020 by OftenWrong

[Rue]

44 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

Rue doesn't seem to understand significant exponential growth. Like how did we get to Norway having 4 time as many cases per capita, as China in 2 weeks?

Oh stop. You even know what exponential growth  is when when applied to infectious diseases? Of course not. Stop posing as if you do.,

Here go to:

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/01/exponential_coronavirus.html

"Exponential expansion of an infectious disease occurs when the rate of growth is proportional to the number of people currently infected. The mathematical formula for exponential growth is:

 

“xt” refers to the total number of cases, “xo” the number of index cases or the number of cases at the time of mathematical calculation, “r” the rate of disease transmission (the number of people infected by each prior case), and “t” the number of incubation time intervals during the course of an epidemic.

In the current 2019-nCoV epidemic “r” has been estimated by an international team of university researchers to be 3.8, and the best estimate for incubation time is 4-5 days, which occurred in earlier Coronavirus epidemics known as SARS and MERS. Read et al. have estimated that only 5% of Chinese cases have been detected and reported, but if we assume that 3 out of 4 cases remain in the incubation period, unsymptomatic, but still contagious toward the end of incubation, we can estimate the current number of cases to be ~8,000 rather than the ~2,000 currently acknowledged by the Chinese government.

Read et al. have mathematically predicted about 200,000 cases in China by February 4 using an estimate of 11,341 cases on January 21 and an “r” of 3.8. Using a more conservative “r” of 3.0, an incubation time of 5 days, and a current number of 8,000 cases (6,000 undetected and unreported) there would be 97,000 cases by February 4 and about 100 million cases by the first of March. Assuming the 10% fatality rate seen in SARS, there would be 10 million deaths by March. These numbers are extremely disturbing, but of course depend upon the accuracy of current estimates for disease transmission, incubation time, mortality rate, and an accurate appraisal of unreported cases. The case numbers could be reduced to some degree with strict quarantines and travel restrictions; of course the numbers might even be higher if the Chinese government is underreporting its cases, or if the mortality rate is closer to 35% as seen in MERS. If these estimates are accurate, or even in the right ballpark, it would be wise to place strict limits on, or ban, flights arriving from China."

Now read the above and in particular the wording:  "these numbers are extremely distirbing, BUT OF COURSE DEPEND ON THE ACCURACY OF CURRENT ESTIMATES FOR DISEASE TRANSMISSION, INCUBATION TIME, MORTALITY RATE, AND AN ACCURATE APPRAISAL OF UNREPORTED CASES.

Which is exactly what I explained to you and you do not bother to take the time to find out.

 

 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, scribblet said:

We are over 65 but still cannot hibernate as we have to get groceries and meds now and then.   I have to go out today to look for TP as I haven't been able to find any for a few days, they were lines up outside Walmart on Friday and their shelves were cleaned out TP.   I also need some pasta but they were out of that too, hopefully I can get some today. along with NyQuil and Tylenol just in case. 

People are crazy. And crazy people don't think very well. I was at the mall yesterday for lunch. We couldn't resist dropping by the Loblaws and sure enough, all the TP was gone. But just around the corner was a Rexall which had plenty. The crazy people seek out the places with giant packs of 48 rolls like Walmart, Costco and the Loblaws super stores. Meanwhile, there's plenty available at the corner stores and drug stores, only in regular size packs.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Argus

[Rue]

Here to combat yet more ignorance as to gathering stats on disease and specifically viruses:

https://mathbench.umd.edu/modules/popn-dynamics_exponential-growth/page15.htm

Here is a good explanation of what PC thinks is the only way to look at virus rates is: (source for below:https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-03/how-fast-will-the-new-coronavirus-spread-two-sides-of-the-debate)

"The term growthers refers to the notion of exponential growth, and indeed the number of Covid-19 cases appears (by some accounts) to be following an exponential pattern. Some scientists have estimated that the number of cases doubles about every seven days. If you play that logic out, it is easy enough to see how people might be complacent at first, then in a few months there is a public health crisis."

However it is not that simple....

" The base-raters, when assessing the likelihood of a particular scenario, start by asking how often it has happened before. That is, they estimate its base-rate likelihood. And history shows that major pandemics have lately been rare. The SARS and Ebola outbreaks largely petered out, HIV-AIDS was of a very different nature, and the 1957 and 1968 flu epidemics are now distant memories."

and...

"As for the health-care establishment, epidemiologists understand exponential growth rates very well. But many medical professionals think in terms of what are called “normal” statistical distributions. If someone visits your office with what appears to be a typical flu case, it is usually exactly that. The result is that there is not much surge capacity in America’s hospitals and public-health institutions."

I again repeat, exponential math formulas are not necessarily absolute truth or indicative of anything. We have grown to rely on them in a world of computer technology where with computer viruses they can be accurate BUT we are dealing with humans we have for more many intangibles that can impact on the stats including HUMAN ERROR or DIFFERENCE IN REPORTING or just plain old ACCURACY.

So I again quote this:

"Dr Gregory Gray, an infectious disease epidemiologist and professor at Duke University in the United States, said that without population-based studies, metrics such as pathogenicity, the percentage of those who develop severe disease among the infected, and mortality may not be precise.

“I think many epidemiologists suspect the estimates for 2019-nCoV disease severity are a bit exaggerated,” he said, using the official name of the virus.

“Metrics like pathogenicity and mortality are falsely elevated because infected people with few or no symptoms are not being counted in the denominators.”

source for above : https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3049601/coronavirus-recovery-rates-promising-infectious-disease-expert-says?utm_source=TodayOnline&utm_medium=partner&utm_campaign=contentexchange

What is also known at this time is that very young children who have had this virus did not get that sick or sick at all and so they speculate they may be spreading the virus because no one knows they have it, see:  https://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rue]

Here to cheer you up, this is called elephant dung coffee...the elephants poo out the coffee beans which is supposed to make it taste better: I hope this guy washes his hands when he is done. I haven't seen it at Tim Horton's.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Rue

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

There are 3 ways to deal with future pandemics or bioteorrism

1 - Lock people in their homes, and wait until the vaccine

2 - Get everyone to wear hazmat suits for three week, so they can work, and not be in fear

3 - Get everyone infected as fast as possible, so we can recover as fast as possible, and accept the casualties as inevitable.

I prefer the second choice.

Most people who get infected recover.  The main issue is protecting the vulnerable and not overwhelming the health care system, such that the vulnerable, if and when infected, can get the care that they need.  Flatten the curve, protect and support the vulnerable.  I don't think it's helpful for most businesses or government activities to shut down, as they are the supply lines and source of the goods, services, and revenues that prop up the economy and society as a whole.  We don't want to kill businesses and create shortages.  Perhaps as a short-term fix to flatten the surge and get a better handle on public hygiene, a certain amount of shutting down is necessary, but it must be finite and controlled.   For example, I can see us temporarily transition to an "A B" or even and "A B C" school environment for a while, where students are divided into smaller classes of say 10-15, so that students have plenty of space around them, use washrooms one at a time, and an intensive cleaning regimen is maintained.  Students would attend school in these groupings every second or third day.  Teachers could communicate with students using online tools on the other days.  But maybe that isn't even necessary.  We also have to remember that there's a psychological component to all of this isolation and worry that takes its toll and adds to the problem.  We need to keep active and working to some degree.  We need a sense of community, even if only in small groupings.  Online connections help but probably aren't a sufficient replacement for real physical presence.  No man is an island.  We are social beings.  I'm not sure it's worthwhile or wise to make restaurants and pubs close, for example, though certainly we should have better capacity limits and enforce them. 

Basically we institute policies of social distancing in schools and the workplace.  We maintain this until we see that the health system can handle the vulnerable, who will be following a higher regimen of isolation (probably voluntarily self-imposed instead of "enforced").  That should be plenty of caution, and yes, we will likely see more vulnerable people die than we're used to.  Either those who get the virus get an immunity or they do not.  If they do, then eventually, even if the virus reaches most of the population, it will settle down after the immunity (which is also what would happen if we develop a vaccine for everyone who hasn't been infected).  If there is no permanent immunity after getting the virus, and people can be re-infected, then we will have to get used to this new normal of the vulnerable having to be extra careful to avoid infection, and accepting that some vulnerable people will get infected, with the hope that the health system can support them quite well.  I think it can.  A vaccine would certainly help.  However, with or without one, at some point we have to return to public life, just with greater care.  We'll adjust. 

The silly hoarding has to stop and we need to hear more from the sensible experts.  They are not calling for a shut down.  We should take this opportunity to think about what our new normal should look like.  Perhaps reduced work hours in smaller groupings, with more online work, is a better way for us all to live going forward, with less travel, less work, and less stress.  Perhaps this is how we solve the problem of automation replacing human jobs.  This was predicted decades ago as a good thing.  Machines could do more of the work so humans can do less of it and enjoy more personal interests and time with loved ones.  If the whole Breton-Woods monetary system really is a bit of a fiction, which the quantitative easing of the last 19 years has demonstrated, perhaps this is the time for a form of universal basic income, so that no one suffers or feels left out.  Lack of money shouldn't be a barrier to health care, education, and a clean environment.  We need to think about how we can trade and maintain decent living standards AND maintain a clean environment with a high quality of life.  Regulations aren't always bad.  They can help a great deal.  So can international bodies and trade pacts.  Whatever gets ourselves and our trading partners to that place we need to go, a healthy society with a downward trend in emissions and plenty of opportunity, we must do.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

Very promising gains in the development of a vaccine:

https://globalnews.ca/news/6671901/coronavirus-canadian-company-covid-19-vaccine-candidate/

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/science/scientists-in-israel-likely-to-announce-it-developed-coronavirus-vaccine/articleshow/74592807.cms?from=mdr

[mowich]

18 hours ago, bcsapper said:

What should we do if they don't?

How will we know who 'they' are? 

[mowich]

3 hours ago, scribblet said:

We are over 65 but still cannot hibernate as we have to get groceries and meds now and then.   I have to go out today to look for TP as I haven't been able to find any for a few days, they were lines up outside Walmart on Friday and their shelves were cleaned out TP.   I also need some pasta but they were out of that too, hopefully I can get some today. along with NyQuil and Tylenol just in case.  

 

Try checking smaller stores, scrib.  Our local country store had no shortage of any products including TP and hand sanitizer.  Just saying.

[mowich]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Nike reports they are shuttering all stores in America, and world-wide.
Nike to shut all its stores in the US, other parts of the world amid coronavirus fears

I fear that this is only the beginning. Other stores will begin to close one by one including malls, large retail centres, grocery stores, gas stations. Queue the mass panic, better get to Metro now and buy everything while you still can. Then make for the exit, stage left.

" Queue the mass panic...." - which you are only contributing to with this post.  Get a grip.

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, mowich said:

Try checking smaller stores, scrib.  Our local country store had no shortage of any products including TP and hand sanitizer.  Just saying.

Yes.  Also, you can use paper towels.  Many Russians use cut up newsprint.  Worse comes to worst, set aside a few rags to use to clean yourself and wash afterwards, just like the old baby nappies.  These are not real problems.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, mowich said:

" Queue the mass panic...." - which you are only contributing to with this post.  Get a grip.

At a certain point I think these closures become irresponsible corporate moves.  I don't think stores, restaurants, or pubs should be closed except in crisis areas.  Pharmacies and grocers must stay open.   

[-TSS-]

After all, the things individuals can do for themselves is to make sure you have a few weeks supplies of food at home and stay indoors as much as possible. As long as water and electricity are running you'll be fine. If water and electricity stop you know the society has collapsed.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, mowich said:

How will we know who 'they' are? 

They are the ones with the cleanest bottoms...

[Zeitgeist]

38 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

After all, the things individuals can do for themselves is to make sure you have a few weeks supplies of food at home and stay indoors as much as possible. As long as water and electricity are running you'll be fine. If water and electricity stop you know the society has collapsed.

People have been known to survive up to three months without food, but you can only survive without water for up to two days.  So, with plenty of freshwater around us, as long as you have a means of filtering or boiling water, whether with your propane/natural gas barbecue or burning wood, you're fine.  The weather is improving.  We won't need heat for much longer, and then not until the fall.  Even without electricity we would be fine at this point in the year.  The days are getting longer, so you could get up with the sun and go to bed with the sunset if you don't have enough candles or other artificial light sources.  Our rivers and forests are vast sources of wildlife.  These are worst-case scenarios that are all highly unlikely anyway.  You will be fine.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[kactus]

 

Quote

Flattening that curve will mean compromising the health of elderlies or people with pre existing conditions that will inevitably put a strain on NHS as you suggested.

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think it means the opposite.

 

How so? Isn't it the case that the elderly's immune system with pre existing condition is already compromised and they are more vulnerable to die from the virus? The British government has explicitly said in a statement that UK has entered a delay phase to help ease the strain on NHS until summer. In doing so, he wants people to catch to virus and become immune to the virus. The elderlies are vulnerable and will die in the process. My point is that whilst the objective is to flatten the curve a lot of of elderly people will lose their lives. 

 

 

[mowich]

3 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

The panic was a good way to get people to stock up, but those supplies won't last forever. Now is the time to declare martial law in Canada. Anyone caught outside their home can be sent to prison for up to 1 year.

If we close all our borders and forced everyone to stay inside their home for 3 weeks, the virus would burn itself out. 

The government needs to shut down every city and small town at once.... and all other countries agree to do it at the same time.

Any country that doesn't have a complete shutdown, get's banned from our borders.

If they don't do the shutdown in sync, than people will continue to spread the virus.

What they can't be doing is wack a mole shutdowns. That will lead to a great depression

Everyone agrees to do the shutdown at once, or we let millions die.

"Now is the time to declare martial law in Canada. Anyone caught outside their home can be sent to prison for up to 1 year."

According to the latest numbers, the people who have recovered from the virus by far outnumber those who have died.  And of those who have succumbed to the virus, most had underlying health conditions.  There is no need to declare martial law and the idea that someone would be sent to jail for a year should they break any such draconian measure is ludicrous. 

"If we close all our borders and forced everyone to stay inside their home for 3 weeks, the virus would burn itself out."

"Wuhan residents have been under lockdown for over six weeks now as a result of COVID-19  ..." and they still are.

www.pri.org/stories/2020-03-11/lockdown-wuhan-takes-toll-people-s-mental-health

 

[mowich]

43 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes.  Also, you can use paper towels.  Many Russians use cut up newsprint.  Worse comes to worst, set aside a few rags to use to clean yourself and wash afterwards, just like the old baby nappies.  These are not real problems.

When I was a very young girl growing up on a farm in SK, we had an outdoor biffy and the Eaton's or Simpson-Sears catalogue - worked a charm they did. 

[kactus]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

Quote

No no and no and try educate yourself on what a virus is.

 

 

I never claimed I was an expert in the area. That's why I put a question mark in my post if you had paid attention as I am really interested to learn more.

Quote

To start with all a vaccine is, is the virus. How the hell do you think it works. They give you a mild exposure to the virus to build up immunities in your system to fight it. The only way to have your body deal with a virus is to build up its immunity system so it can beat the virus.

I never said anything to contradict this.

 

Quote

Most viruses, the vast majority, we have a natural ability to fight. When we do not have clear stats on the actual amount of people with the virus, the fatality rate will always seem higher and that is because hundreds and thousands have the virus and never report it because they never get sick from it.

 

That may be the case with Italy as we know that many people had the virus for some time but did not report it. But we know the symptoms for Covid.19 Coughs, Fever, difficulty breathing, etc?  

 

Quote

Next there is no such thing as "herd immunity". That is your twisted and incorrect misunderstanding of what a vaccine is or what exposing people to a virus that is not dangerous means.

Here's the definition of herd immunity. It is a formal term. 

 

1. the resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination.

   "the level of vaccination needed to achieve herd immunity varies by disease"

 

My point of contention was that there is no vaccination for C.19 virus so exposing people to a virus that mutates can potentially be dangerous. This was the case with the second wave of Spanish flu when the virus mutation resulted in more deaths. There are a lot that is unknown about C.19.

 

Quote

You are panicked thinking this virus will kill you. You are hyped up from over amplification on your cell phone and internet of the subject matter and your lack of awareness and understanding of what a virus is.

 

I never said I am panicking....I said older people with pre existing conditions catching this virus to build immunity are more predisposed to die from it.

Quote

To repeat again, this virus will not kill you. It is only of concern for people with compromised immunities and even then it of course does not and will not kill  ALL people with compromised immunities. No statistic is showing that. You have no clue when people die why they have died. Certain bacteria piggy back on a human when we are sick and have no immunities. You have no idea whether the human who is sick would have been exposed to those bacteria and died of them whether they had the virus or not. Many times the piggy backing on makes the bacteria show up faster but it does not mean the bacteria would not have shown up anyways virus or no virus, something you clearly can not conceive.

Again I use the example of the virus in Spanish flu once mutated resulted in more deadly wave. We don't know if C.19 will mutate but I merely asked the question in my original post. So don't shoot the messenger....

 

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, ProudConservative said:

1. Why don't you start listening to Frank Vaughan on YouTube. 

2. He ran in the PPC.

3. Most of us seemed to like the PPC,

4. so maybe we could trust one of our own.

5. He explains some logic... once the hospitals get overrun and the doctor's die from the disease, the fatality rate becomes much higher. He explains the knock on effects when the system breaks down. While you're mocking everyone, they people who are panicking are actually getting prepared.

6. What i'm proposing is, getting Canada to produce Hazmat suits, so when the next pandemic hits. People can go to work, and not be in fear.

 

1. You should never take medical advice from a politician.  Read that sentence again and say it out loud and listen to it.

2. He is a farmer from central Ontario with a Youtube channel.

3. They got about 2% in the last election.  Not only did NOT most "like" the PPC, most DID NOT LIKE THE PPC.

4. I trust my parents, but they gave pretty bad medical advice when we were growing up.  Trust medical science and accredited experts.

5. Rue is actually trying to give you sage advice.  This crisis will pass.

6. Your plan is not practical.  Read Rue's post.  I'm pretty sure that somebody would have thought of this if it were good advice.