Canada's NATO shell game , guess how much we spend ?

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

Why would Beijing need to launder money ?   If somebody is laundering money, that is to hide it from Beijing.

 

Live in whatever reality suits you.

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

If it has no use...get rid of it.

If it has no use...

The purpose of NATO was to prevent the Warsaw Pact from reaching the Rhine river before American forces could reinforce by way of Rammstein AFB

Once the Warsaw Pact dissolved, the purpose of NATO went with it.   It's just a zombie legacy project now.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Live in whatever reality suits you.

Snarky rejoinders are of no consequence to that reality. /shrugs

[Dougie93]

28 minutes ago, Boges said:

It plays into their hands that he's sowing discord amongst NATO. 

When 911 happened the US invoked Article 5 and to a man NATO has their backs. 

Now Trump is waffling on it. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/05/trump-declines-to-affirm-natos-article-5/528129/

Actually what America found out is that the NATO allies all had caveats and most refused to do much actual fighting.

Canada was one of the few who was actually willing to put troops into battle, but it was so few troops and they were so poorly equipped, it didn't provide use much to America

Just like the NATO allies, there is nothing in the Washington Treaty which stipulates what a member must provide in response to Article V

America can respond with a strongly worded letter all the way up to thermonuclear war, but that is at America's discretion by the terms of the treaty.

[Dougie93]

An American need only peruse the commentary of Canadians on social media to see that Canada are no longer our ally.

The vast majority of Canadians quite clearly fear, loathe, resent and despise America.

Americans should view Canada as hostile, the people are knee jerk Anti-Americans and the government of Canada is running a rogue state.

Rather than trying to cajole Canada into contributing, America should abandon Canada and freeze them out.

[DrYouth]

6 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

An American need only peruse the commentary of Canadians on social media to see that Canada are no longer our ally.

The vast majority of Canadians quite clearly fear, loathe, resent and despise America.

Americans should view Canada as hostile, the people are knee jerk Anti-Americans and the government of Canada is running a rogue state.

Rather than trying to cajole Canada into contributing, America should abandon Canada and freeze them out.

Half of Americans are no longer an ally of Americans according to those same social media comments...

America has more of a problem in being divided against itself than it does with Canada...

Canada doesn't even register.

Edited December 4, 2019 by DrYouth

[Dougie93]

Just now, DrYouth said:

Half of Americans are no longer an ally according to those same social media comments...

America has more of a problem in being divided against itself than it does with Canada...

Canada doesn't even register.

We will deal with the Democrat traitors to the republic by demographic force, they are defeating themselves.

Canada however sides against us with them, but Canadians are not Americans, so we have more leeway to retaliate against our Canadian enemies.

[DrYouth]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

We will deal with the Democrat traitors to the republic by demographic force, they are defeating themselves.

Canada however sides against us with them, but Canadians are not Americans, so we have more leeway to retaliate against our Canadian enemies.

The Republicans are divided among themselves as well.

Those loyal to Trump and his rogue crew of "nationalist" misfits vs Traditional Republicans themselves divided among crony corporatists and traditional classical liberals and libertarians...

The whole shebang is Balkans of ideology and corruption.... there is really no cohesion to be found anywhere.

Edited December 4, 2019 by DrYouth

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, DrYouth said:

The Republicans are divided among themselves as well.

Those loyal to Trump and his rogue crew of "nationalist" misfits vs Traditional Republicans themselves divided among crony corporatists and traditional classical liberals and libertarians...

The whole shebang is Balkans of ideology and corruption.... there is really no cohesion to be found anywhere.

Nonsense, Trump has 90% support amongst Republicans, the Never Trumps are a tiny and irrelevant minority.

 

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, DrYouth said:

The Republicans are divided among themselves as well.

Those loyal to Trump and his rogue crew of "nationalist" misfits vs Traditional Republicans themselves divided among crony corporatists and traditional classical liberals and libertarians...

The whole shebang is Balkans of ideology and corruption.... there is really no cohesion to be found anywhere.

Wrong Jellyfish. The Never Trump faction is smaller than The Never Reagan, or Never Bush faction of the Republican party. The media just likes to talk about the former more, because they have Trump Derangement Syndrome.

[Dougie93]

The Never Trumps can cry on CNN all they like, but the reason they don't actually defy Trump, is that they know that he has the support in the districts.

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Nonsense, Trump has 90% support amongst Republicans, the Never Trumps are a tiny and irrelevant minority.

 

Just because the media loves to talk about them and inflate their importance doesn't actually mean they are relevant. Dr Y is letting CNN fool him that they are important and his jellyfish nature inclines him to see division on all sides, which is why he's so easily fooled.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

Getting back to Canada and its total lack of any useful military capability, America should just dissolve NORAD.

There's no need to have Canada in the chain of command anymore, Canada is totally irrelevant, it's simply no man's land.

America doesn't need Canada's permission to operate in Canadian airspace and waters, there's nothing Canada is going to do about it.

Canada should just be ignored, if we need to deal with the Russians and/or Chinese in and around Canadian territory, that can be done without consulting Ottawa.

That's already the case most of the time now, just fly over them and sail past them, Canada has no sovereignty to violate, it's ungoverned space for all purposes military.

 

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Just because the media loves to talk about them and inflate their importance doesn't actually mean they are relevant. Dr Y is letting CNN fool him that they are important and his jellyfish nature inclines him to see division on all sides, which is why he's so easily fooled.

I'm not even a Trump supporter, as you know I didn't endorse him, none the less he has overwhelming support on the right, and I have no enemies on the right.

Canadian Jelly Fish live in a bubble of CBC state media propaganda, which is just the farm team for CNN.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

The weak and divided faction is in fact the Democrat traitors to the republic.

The GOP is 90% unified behind Trump, the Democrats are split down the middle between the Establishment Cucks and the Bernie Bro insurgents.

That's why they lost the last election and that's why they are going to lose the next one too.

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Boges]

37 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

An American need only peruse the commentary of Canadians on social media to see that Canada are no longer our ally.

The vast majority of Canadians quite clearly fear, loathe, resent and despise America.

Americans should view Canada as hostile, the people are knee jerk Anti-Americans and the government of Canada is running a rogue state.

Rather than trying to cajole Canada into contributing, America should abandon Canada and freeze them out.

That's a very inaccurate way to gauge the partner ship. I would suggest the goods traded between the two nations is a better gauge. 

Basing facts on the whims of people that complain on Twitter about anything is a Fool's errand. 

[DrYouth]

9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I'm not even a Trump supporter, as you know I didn't endorse him, none the less he has overwhelming support on the right, and I have no enemies on the right.

Canadian Jelly Fish live in a bubble of CBC state media propaganda, which is just the farm team for CNN.

Do you seriously see team Trump as a functional political entity.

Seems like a lot of douchebags and scummy opportunists.

Where do you see the real talent on this team?

Or does it matter?

Do you see the value purely in the disruptive capacity of the movement.... burn it down kinda stuff... cause I kind of see that angle.

Edited December 4, 2019 by DrYouth

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, DrYouth said:

Do you seriously see team Trump as a functional political entity.

Seems like a lot of douchebags and scummy opportunists.

Where do you see the real talent on this team?

Or does it matter?

Do you see the value purely in the disruptive capacity of the movement.... burn it down kinda stuff... cause I kind of see that angle.

He's just a means to an end, to sideline the Democrats, to take the Rust Belt, to beat Hillary, in order to take control of the SCOTUS.

Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Coney Barret, that is the political entity that matters long term.

[Rue]

10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed, as Trump's main target is Germany, which benefits the most (including trade with Russia) while spending far less on defense.   Current German defense spending levels are now about 20% of West Germany before the great "peace dividend" slashed EU spending.   Trump's favourite weapon is trade tariffs, just as he did with Canada and Mexico for NAFTA...he can't directly force the NATO deadbeats to spend more, but he can make it painful.

The post WW2 "grand bargain" is coming to an end, but it is much more about Europe and the EU than tiny Canada, which must rely on collective defense no matter what the spending levels.   Canada could diminish Trump's NATO deadbeat rhetoric by procuring the F-35 JSF, and milk that for all it's worth.

 

Trump is a stooge of Putin. Period. His handler is the father of Melania Trump. He is a compromised, corrupted stooge playing Putin's divide and conquer song and dance. If any US President has genuine concerns about NATO and lack of spending the way to express that is back channel through mutual business interests and diplomats. Any idiot knows if you act the baboon in public embarrassing your allies all you do is alienate them not win them over.

Bottom line is we need a military  and Canada has no excuses. We have next to Russia the largest geographic area in the world to patrol and maintain sovereignty over including the North, Pacific and Atlantic. .

On that the Americans have a right  to bitch and there is a time and place to do it.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Rue

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Rue said:

 

Bottom line is we need a military 

No you don't, who is going to attack Canada with military force ?

All threats to Canada are asymmetrical and domestic.

The two main threat vectors are islamic terrorism and/or an insurrection by the Indians.

Canada needs only an armed constabulary and a coast guard, DND is just a big boondoggle for entrenched interests.

[Dougie93]

The politicians know this, hence why Disarmament by Stealth is the overriding if unstated policy in Canada.

The polticians are at odds with the military senior brass, the senior brass is trying to preserve their DND vanity project, the civilians are trying to get rid of it.

Hence why the Liberals took Vice Admiral Norman as a political prisoner when he went against their Disarmament by Stealth agenda.

And now they have brought him to heel, bought him off basically, and the rest of the brass has received the message too.

Stop resisting Disarmament by Stealth, its not going to change, get back to what is important to the government, which is pandering to the base.

The main role of the CF right now is to push the Woke agenda, Diversity Is Our Strength is what the CF has been ordered to focus on.

The biggest priority right now is recruiting Transgenders to show how Woke the Canadian military is.

The loonie left in Canada has taken control of the government, social panic is the driving force behind all policy now.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

 

[Dougie93]

Here is the face of NATO now;

 

Canada's "great" contribution is mo trannies,

I think America can move on without it and be just fine.

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

BoJo must be delighted Trump left in a huff. The last thing he needed for his election campaign was any more compliments from that guy. 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

It would only come to an end because Trump seems to see more to like coming from Putin than he does from Liberal democracies. 

There is no real justification for the US to spend what it does on the Military. Especially when it's the only Liberal democracy in that doesn't really offer a single payer healthcare option for its people. 

 

No, the "grand bargain" began to unravel long before Trump.   American and European policies began to diverge after the peace dividend and 9/11 with the paltry commitments made by many NATO "allies", except for Canada, Netherlands, and UK.   Even non-member Australia provided more combat punch than many NATO members, who refused to engage the enemy at consistent levels and duration.   The U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 further alienated NATO "allies".

The Europeans would still balk if the Americans cut defense spending back from 3.5% to 2.0% of GDP for more social programs and removed many troops from Europe.   Canada has a different dynamic because it is part of North America, without a long history of warfare or threat of invasion by Soviets/Russians.   Canada also has a separate NORAD treaty obligation unrelated to Europe.

To make matters worse, deadbeat Germany has also forced austerity measures on the PIGS and other EU nations for loan servicing to Germany, making it even more difficult to meet the 2014 Wales defense spending agreement (2% of GDP) in the wake of Russia's actions in Georgia and Ukraine.