What to do about China

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

I think every nation is trying it's up most to prevent a major confrontation with any world power... but US military leaders have turned on the red light when it comes to warning the government about Chinese actions .. and it continues to demostrate to china almost daily it really does not control anything , be it naval/ air  demonstration, and arming Taiwan

 

U.S. military leaders have a lot more to worry about besides China, which can't project military power outside of its region for now, but will strive to do so in the future.   America's pivot to WESTPAC away from Europe strained EU and NATO relations, and Trump doubled down on the obvious with respect to deadbeats who rely too much on American military power.  The post WW2 Grand Bargain has run out of gas...the Soviet Union collapsed nearly 30 years ago.  Yet Canada insists that the American led "rules based order" of old must continue as before, even as the world changes around it, including the United States.

Germany, France, and the UK have come to accept more responsibility for their own defense (at least in principle)...Canada is still wavering on this and several other fronts, paralyzed by internal politics and an impotent foreign policy that makes it more and more irrelevant.   China can smell this weakness, and will continue to exploit it.

Canada has choices to make, including not making any choices at all.   Either way, the world will move on whether Canada continues to dither or not...we are used to it by now.

 

[Shady]

Sooo true!

 

[Argus]

One of the ways China is moving towards world influence is with rare minerals. Over the years it has succeeded in putting much of the world's mining of rare minerals out of business by flooding the market to lower prices or by simply buying them up and closing them down. It now controls much of the world's supply and uses it to blackmail countries which anger it.

“We are in the midst of a global battery arms race, where the world’s major economies are building a base to the energy storage revolution,” Moores said.

But developing strategic assets in Canada has proved challenging. Jamie Deith, chief executive of mining firm Eagle Graphite, described to the committee the struggles he has had raising capital to develop his graphite quarry in British Columbia, largely due to China’s stranglehold on the market.

China in the past has flooded markets with supply as a way to lower prices, making it less economically feasible for competitors to develop rare minerals.

The Chinese government has also restricted output in order to hike prices or to cut off foreign countries from strategic supply. China in 2010 cut Japan’s supply of rare earths in response to a dispute over the Diayou Islands, restricting its ability to manufacture hybrid cars and other products.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/mining-executives-warn-ottawa-about-dependence-on-china-for-strategic-minerals-amid-deteriorating-relations

[blackbird]

Interesting National Post article:

"Raymond J. de Souza: Where lies Liberal loyalty: Canada or China?

The rot of appeasement that reached its nadir during the Chrétien years is well-advanced within the current federal government"   Raymond J. de Souza: Where lies Liberal loyalty: Canada or China? | National Post

Another interesting article:

  Appeasing China, New Zealand abandons the Five Eyes (msn.com)

Politicians have been selling out Canada to China for decades, especially liberals.  They see nothing wrong with this.

Edited April 7, 2021 by blackbird

[Argus]

There sees little end to the spineless Liberal efforts to ingratiate themselves with China's brutal dictatorship - or at least not make them any more annoyed with us.

 

The organizers of one of the world’s most prestigious defense gatherings are in the midst of an uncomfortable international standoff between the Canadian government and China over a major award they had planned to give to the president of Taiwan.

The standstill, which is ongoing and has not been previously reported, has created tension between the Halifax International Security Forum and the Canadian government, which is a major sponsor of the forum.

Late last year, according to multiple sources familiar with the matter, the forum’s organizers decided to give its John McCain Prize for Leadership in Public Service to Tsai Ing-wen, the president of Taiwan. Cindy McCain, a member of the forum’s board of directors, greenlit the decision to honor Tsai with the prize named after her late husband.

It would have been the third time the HFX presented the McCain award. The first, in 2018, went to the people of Lesbos, Greece, for their efforts to save refugees; the second, in 2019, went to the citizen protesters in Hong Kong. HFX planned to give the third to Taiwan’s president for standing strong against China’s relentless pressure.

When Canadian officials learned of the forum’s plans, they made it clear that if organizers gave the honor to Tsai, the Canadian government would pull support — and funding — from HFX.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/11/trudeau-hailfax-security-forum-taiwan-480722

[Argus]

More on the spineless kowtowing to China the Trudeau government is obsessed with. Threatening a respected foreign policy and defense organization with cutting its funding if it dares to recognize Taiwan's prime minister's accomplishments. I wonder what Chinese shoe leather tastes like. Maybe someone can ask Trudeau or his foreign minister during question period.

It is nothing if not rich in irony, this latest dramatic plot twist in the ongoing “world stage” soap opera chronicling the embarrassing ups and downs of the Trudeau government’s unrequited affections for Chinese strongman Xi Jinping. Of all people, Taiwan’s heroic president, the 64-year-old feminist and liberal Tsai Ing-wen, has been forced to endure the misfortune of being dragged into the script for this week’s episode.

Of all people: President Tsai is precisely the kind of dynamic middle-power personality the Trudeau Liberals, if we were to take them at their word about what they claim to stand for, would be falling all over themselves to be seen with. Nevertheless, in the last remaining setting at which Canada can still claim some international prestige — the Halifax International Security Forum (HFX), now in its 11th year — Team Trudeau has beclowned itself again, and this time it’s at Tsai’s expense.

Glavin: Canada squeezes out Taiwan's liberal-democracy champion | Ottawa Citizen

[RedDog]

MacArthur was right. Sooner or later we'll have to deal with the Chinese.

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, RedDog said:

MacArthur was right. Sooner or later we'll have to deal with the Chinese.

They said that about the Russians too, though.  And they had their very own man in the White House for four years.

[Argus]

I don't read Rebel News, but I came across a link to this in a forum post on another board, and since this refers to a CBC story I'm tentatively going to say "Holy shit!". Basically what it says is that Chinese fighter pilots are being trained in Canada at a private school near London. Yes, the Chinese Air Force is training in Canada to shoot down the aircraft of our allies.

The scandal was first mentioned as a throw away line in a CBC News story from 2020 on the increased fighter jet air traffic over London, Ontario:

Have you noticed fighter jets flying over London? Here's why: Right now the Malaysian air force is training in the skies over the Forest City

But in typical CBC fashion, the real story is buried way down in the article.

A private company called ITPS Canada is training foreign fighter pilots on “aircraft to aircraft combat, aircraft to ground combat and aerobatics”, according to the statement given by Giorgio Clementi the owner of the company.
The pilots are here for a year to learn everything about 20 different aircraft from single engine propeller planes to large jets. Clients have included the Italian, Turkish, Malaysian, and Chinese Air forces.

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army is using Canadian airspace to hone their skills to kill Canadian allies.

https://www.rebelnews.com/exclusive_minister_of_transport_approved_chinese_fighter_pilot_training_in_canadian_airspace

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

I don't read Rebel News, but I came across a link to this in a forum post on another board, and since this refers to a CBC story I'm tentatively going to say "Holy shit!". Basically what it says is that Chinese fighter pilots are being trained in Canada at a private school near London. Yes, the Chinese Air Force is training in Canada to shoot down the aircraft of our allies.

The scandal was first mentioned as a throw away line in a CBC News story from 2020 on the increased fighter jet air traffic over London, Ontario:

Have you noticed fighter jets flying over London? Here's why: Right now the Malaysian air force is training in the skies over the Forest City

But in typical CBC fashion, the real story is buried way down in the article.

A private company called ITPS Canada is training foreign fighter pilots on “aircraft to aircraft combat, aircraft to ground combat and aerobatics”, according to the statement given by Giorgio Clementi the owner of the company.
The pilots are here for a year to learn everything about 20 different aircraft from single engine propeller planes to large jets. Clients have included the Italian, Turkish, Malaysian, and Chinese Air forces.

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army is using Canadian airspace to hone their skills to kill Canadian allies.

https://www.rebelnews.com/exclusive_minister_of_transport_approved_chinese_fighter_pilot_training_in_canadian_airspace

I find that article quite suspect. The company's website advertises as a test pilot school, there is no reference to combat training. Also, the idea of low level and air to air combat training anywhere near Toronto or London airspace is patently absurd.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Aristides

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, Aristides said:

I find that article quite suspect. The company's website advertises as a test pilot school, there is no reference to combat training. Also, the idea of low level and air to air combat training anywhere near Toronto or London airspace is patently absurd.

This came up last year, I think.  The Canadian military has been co-training with China since at least the Harper days.

It should probably stop, but this is also the kind of partisan nit-picking that the Rebel submits in place of actual journalism or insight.  As awful as the CBC and CTV et al can be ... this is worse.   We have to get back to ignoring liars, failures and disunifying fakes...

[Yzermandius19]

the government subsidized media sycophants are clearly the worst

media the government tries to suppress because they don't drink the government kool-aid are clearly better, despite their faults

claims to the contrary, talk about partisan nitpicking

I'll take clearly partisan media who admit to being partisan

over clearly partisan media who refuse to admit to being partisan while claiming the mantle of "objective journalism"

any day of the week

Edited May 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. the government subsidized media sycophants are clearly the worst

2. media the government tries to suppress because they don't drink the government kool-aid are clearly better, despite their faults

3. I'll take clearly partisan media who admit to being partisan

4. over clearly partisan media who refuse to admit to being partisan while claiming the mantle of "objective journalism"

 

1. You mean like the Globe and Mail ? Canada's newspaper of record ?  The one that broke the SNC Lavalin scandal and almost brought Trudeau down ?  

2. Like "antiVax Vinnie" and his YouTube channel ?

3. Right, because they will not criticize people you like.

4. Everybody is partisan.  It's not how much they admit to it, but how partisan they are that matters.  And even partisanship is not as important to the story as things like professionalism, research etc.
 

[Yzermandius19]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. You mean like the Globe and Mail ? Canada's newspaper of record ?  The one that broke the SNC Lavalin scandal and almost brought Trudeau down ?  

2. Like "antiVax Vinnie" and his YouTube channel ?

3. Right, because they will not criticize people you like.

4. Everybody is partisan.  It's not how much they admit to it, but how partisan they are that matters.  And even partisanship is not as important to the story as things like professionalism, research etc.
 

Trudeau was not nearly brought down, least of all by his media sycophants

professionalism and research used to back up a clearly false partisan narrative  is worse than a YouTube channel that is more informal and openly partisan but provides actual insight

 

[Michael Hardner]

28 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

1. Trudeau was not nearly brought down, least of all by his media sycophants

2. professionalism and research used to back up a clearly false partisan narrative  is worse than a YouTube channel that is more informal and openly partisan but provides actual insight

 

1. That's arguable.  Being reduced to a minority government is grievous damage, at least... You could be The Rebel and report on schoolyard fights... or be the Globe and Mail and investigate important stories...

2. Right... well enjoy your garbage media then... there are sometimes nice desserts in a dumpster too.

Back to China - if you feel comforted by fringe media making a mountain out of a molehill and getting people angry to get attention, and nothing more, then please indulge in the China-churn that they put out.

Other conservative posters on here are providing perspective on the changing attitudes in mainstream Canada, and casting a wider perspective on what is happening in Canada-Chinese relations.  It's actually essential for an informed Canadian public to pay attention to these things.

Or... you can watch your YouTube channels and punch the pillow you bought with Justin's face on it...

[Yzermandius19]

when it comes to media coverage of China

the more partisan side are those shilling for China

not those bashing it

Edited May 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

This came up last year, I think.  The Canadian military has been co-training with China since at least the Harper days.

It should probably stop, but this is also the kind of partisan nit-picking 

Should probably stop? This is a brutal regime credibly accused of carrying out genocide, actively hostile to Canada and the West, engaged in widespread espionage here as well as a kind of racial "you all owe allegiance to the motherland" propagandizing and threatening of Chinese Canadians.  Not to mention military bullying of its neighbours and exchanging elbows with the Americans and Japanese, who are allies. Australia is so worried they keep ramping up defense spending by leaps and bounds. 

It should absolutely have damned well ended at least two or three years ago.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Argus

[Shady]

The lab leak theory has turned out to be the most widely accepted theory of the origins of coronavirus.  So China literally infected the world with a virus, and kept it quiet when they could have prevented much of the pandemic.  It’s time for a covid tariff on everything imported from China until they’ve paid off their damages.

[Yzermandius19]

China is not scary militarily at this point

who are they going to invade

that won't be infinitely more trouble than it's worth?

saber rattling 9000, obvious bluff is obvious

China can't afford to lose a war

so where are the easy targets in the neighborhood?

not seeing any low hanging fruit

they are surrounded by an alliance of foes

who are far scarier than themselves

and have no allies that are worth a damn

China is boxed in and has little hope of breaking out

any time soon

even within their own region

they are a paper dragon

Edited May 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[OftenWrong]

26 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

China is not scary militarily at this point

who are they going to invade

that won't be infinitely more trouble than it's worth?

saber rattling 9000, obvious bluff is obvious

China can't afford to lose a war

so where are the easy targets in the neighborhood?

not seeing any low hanging fruit

they are surrounded by an alliance of foes

who are far scarier than themselves

and have no allies that are worth a damn

China is boxed in and has little hope of breaking out

any time soon

even within their own region

they are a paper dragon

Except for the Russian bear, maybe. Politics makes queer bedfellows, if you know what I mean.

[Yzermandius19]

7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Except for the Russian bear, maybe. Politics makes queer bedfellows, if you know what I mean.

Russia and China are frenemies

China and America are closer than Russia and China

China needs America more than China needs Russia

 

also Russia doesn't help China breakout in it's own neighborhood

even if they wanted to, which they don't

and neither does America

Edited May 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It should probably stop

Yes, the free exchange and communication of ideas and knowledge should stop. These people are not even government-sanctioned, for crying out loud.

It's great to see what a conservative you've become.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

We have to get back to ignoring liars, failures and disunifying fakes...

and stop taking cues from those who are blissfully unaware of many things!

[Michael Hardner]

37 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. Should probably stop? This is a brutal regime credibly accused of carrying out genocide, actively hostile to Canada and the West, engaged in widespread espionage here as well as a kind of racial "you all owe allegiance to the motherland" propagandizing and threatening of Chinese Canadians. 

2. Not to mention military bullying of its neighbours and exchanging elbows with the Americans and Japanese, who are allies. Australia is so worried they keep ramping up defense spending by leaps and bounds. 

3. It should absolutely have damned well ended at least two or three years ago.

1. Yes.  
2. China won't be taking military action against Australia or Japan.
3. And yet many of the points of contention were in place then.  Look, Harper was skeptical about China and he was right.  Trudeau has far more at stake and he is wrong.  People take time to change their minds.

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. China won't be taking military action against Australia or Japan.

indeed

even if they did

they would get their asses handed to them

Edited May 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

48 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

 the more partisan side are those shilling for China

It's hard to separate the shilling/bashing from general uninformed xenophobic nonsense and actual strategic concerns.

Argus has provided reasoned evidence that China is acting in bad faith in terms of becoming part of the world community.  They seem to think we are back in the 19th century in terms of invading empires and dominance.  When the UK lost the baton in the 20th century they continued to prosper and lead the world in many respects.  America will not be 'defeated' nor will the west.