Handguns and Assault Rifles

[Rue]

Dougie I would buy you a beer and definitely want a guy like you in a patrol on my rear or in front  cuz you is crazy serious but you are not the  problem.  People like youd o not worship weapons. Know a few like you.  You are not my problem. Every day people with weapons are. They never learned to clean one, breath properly with one, even hold it right. They get off on the power of repeating rounds. I do not ever expect them to be trained properly or clean their weapons properly or even be sane. So  my concern is for front line emergency people and especially police responding to calls with wack jobs with guns or domestic calls with angry spouses with guns or drunks with guns.

I appreciate in rural areas all things considered the RCMP have over the years had relatively few incidents although its happened. If I will generalize for a second, most people in rural areas who have rifles have them out of necessity not recreation, i.e., they use them to get food to eat or protect themselves from rabid animals or animals with distemper or maybe a fisher or coyote or rat, coon,  weasel, being a nuisance. My concern is people in cities who have never been brought up to understand rules of nature and conservation and/or have hand guns or rapid release weapons or short muzzle rifles of any kind.

Me I never met a soldier I knew who worshipped guns. The cop friends I have don't worship them. I had to learn to use one and quite frankly preferred carrying a medic bag because my eyes are short sighted I never trusted using one with glasses ever and I am too high strung to breath properly. I am not sure what some people are fascinated by them although I got a Freudian theory or two on why. Me I don't see a problem with necessity rifles in rural areas or even target guns. I do not think much of recreational non necessity hunters but in all fairness some are properly trained by their clubs and take them seriously and I appreciate that.

I just don't see the need for them unless you are a rural dweller or necessity hunter. As for cities, illegal hand guns are not for the most part a regulation problem but they get smuggled in ....but that does not mean they should be sold unless they are for target gun clubs and left at the clubs under lock and key. That's my opinion. I want to make it safe for emergency responders and police. I appreciate regulating hand guns has practical limitations but I agree with those who ask why do people need rapid fire arsenal. Ridiculous. They have no business with them.

I am also firmly convinced as much as some do not like our gun control laws, I will take them any day over what goes on in the US with their repeat non stop shooting incidents the latest in El Paso.

 

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, Rue said:

Me I never met a soldier I knew who worshipped guns.

At the Royal Canadian Regiment Battleschool, I was taught that you are the weapon system, the human weapon system, the ultimate Darwinian killing machine.

All other equipment, is simply an extension of your resolve, your force of will, to close with and destroy, with maximum speed, violence, and aggression, by day or night, in all climate, season, and terrain, under the direction of the lawful chain of command, within the confines of national and international law and the laws of armed conflict, under the ultimate authority of the Commander-in-Chief, Elizabeth Windsor, at Buckingham Palace,  Westminster, London, SW1A 1AA

In terms of worship, we worshiped; VRI

Victoria Regina Imperatrix.   Victoria, our Queen and Empress.  Mother Canada.

Pro Patria

Edited August 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

15 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Remove non-hunting purposed firearms from the general population in Canada while we still can.  

https://globalnews.ca/news/5723545/active-shooter-el-paso-texas/

And this will help with what exactly?

You realize we have a multi thousand kilometer border with the US and guns flow freely across it, right?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

And this will help with what exactly?

You realize we have a multi thousand kilometer border with the US and guns flow freely across it, right?

The important thing is to prevent target shooters from enjoying their hobby.

[Dougie93]

The fatal flaw in Canada is the racist apartheid state.   The Indian Act makes Canada a police state by nature.

Gun control was introduced in 1885 to keep the Indians down.

If they can do it to the Indians, they can do it to you, if they can take the Vice Chief of the Defence Staff as a political prisoner, they can pretty much do anything.

This is not a government which should be trusted with draconian authorities, it will come back to haunt the naive Progressives, but of course they can't see the forest through the trees, too busy virtue signalling how Anti-American they are, rallying around the nanny police state in hysterical fear of American freedom.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

See what's happening in Hong Kong?   The Chinese Communists running the Hong Kong government as a finger puppet police state?

What makes you think that's not happening here?

Those people in the streets in Hong Kong are fundamentally British, same as Canadians, if they can do it to them, they can do it you.

Hockey Night in Canada, brought to you by Huawei, all the way from Beijing.

It's actually pretty funny that Don Cherry works for the Communists now.

Why God bless America?   God bless America because they are the only thing standing between us and that monstrous dictatorship in Beijing.

Is that a Loyalist position?

Damn right it is, ever since they came to our aid in our darkest hour, climbed the cliffs at Pointe du Hoc, Rangers, lead the way.

My Canadian half is not in conflict with my American half, we've been brothers in arms, since 1918.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, bcsapper said:

The important thing is to prevent target shooters from enjoying their hobby.

Just get them to refrain from shooting at moving targets. 

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Furthermore, as a classical liberal limited government conservative, I only have fealty to the state by mutual contractual agreement, consent of the governed.

Those who are absolutely loyal to their sovereign, without question nor reason, are what are referred to as Totalitarians.

And they are extremely dangerous, existentially dangerous in fact, again, see; the Nazis and the Bolsheviks, two sides of the same totalitarian coin.

If God is dead, and the Queen is not the country, then there is no Canada in the end, Canada will have become a lawless totalitarian regime with no basis for soveirenty over these land by the Treaty of Paris 1763, Dieu et mon droit.

And that is in fact what is happening in Canada right now, the Post National State which is only loyal to the Liberal Party of Canada, as a Loyalist, I am by nature counterrevolutionary against that, if no God, Queen, and County there be, then all bets are of course off and I fall back on my American heritage by default.

It's not me trying to overthrow the Crown and install myself as a pretender to the throne, that's the Liberal Party of Canada doing that, slowly but surely, since about 1965.

And it's becoming increasingly totalitarian as it goes, as failing to adhere strictly to the dogma of the Liberal Party of Canada, is now a thought crime.

It is said the Liberals are selling us down the river to the Chinese Communists, and does seem to be the case, the Chinese seem most outraged right now, by the fact that the Liberals would dare to defy them, when it wasn't actually the Liberals, the Liberals obviously wouldn't defy them, it is the Americans stepping in to drive a wedge between Canada and Beijing.

The Liberals don't even bother to maintain the facade of a free press in Canada anymore, all MSM in Canada is now literally state bought, paid for, and run, same as it is in Putin's Russia. Just like in Putin's Russia, the MSM is who the government chooses to be MSM, and the government chooses based on who is loyal to Putin or not, same as the Canadian press is now being government funded based on who is loyal to Trudeau or not.   It's creepy and Orwellian.

To resist the Liberal totalitarianism, is what being a Loyalist is all about, the Liberals are the revolutionary fifth column, to defy them is counterrevolutionary in the face of it.

Nonsense. The CBC throws Justin Trudeau under the bus with regularity.  I think you’re critical of MSM the way Trump is critical of the New York Times.  Only sensationalist tabloid-style FOX will do for the populists.  The CBC has some very thoughtful and well-researched journalism.  

Edited August 4, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Nonsense. The CBC throws Justin Trudeau under the bus with regularity.

They do what the Soviet propaganda arms did, they criticize to the limit to which the politburo would tolerate, to maintain the facade of the Potemkin Village.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

It's not like the totalitarian Flavor-Aid in Canada comes in bottles labelled "Liberal Party of Canada Totalitarian Dogma".

Canada is Orwellian, the height of corruption, incompetence and graft is of course labelled "Sunny Ways".

The Ministry of Truth in downtown Toronto is called the CBC, the Toronto Star, the Globe & Mail, etcetra.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[marcus]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

They do what the Soviet propaganda arms did, they criticize to the limit to which the politburo would tolerate, to maintain the facade of the Potemkin Village.

I disagree. They have covered Trudeau's blunders more than any other media outlet.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Just get them to refrain from shooting at moving targets. 

Moving targets are okay, as long as they don't bleed.  I shoot moving targets myself.  They just shatter into pieces. (Only about 1 out of every 3 times, unfortunately)

[Dougie93]

21 minutes ago, marcus said:

I disagree.

You're welcome to.  Her Majesty defends the right and I defend Her Majesty.

[Dougie93]

6 hours ago, Rue said:

Dougie I would buy you a beer and definitely want a guy like you in a patrol on my rear or in front  cuz you is crazy serious but you are not the  problem.  People like youd o not worship weapons. Know a few like you.  You are not my problem. Every day people with weapons are. They never learned to clean one, breath properly with one, even hold it right. They get off on the power of repeating rounds. I do not ever expect them to be trained properly or clean their weapons properly or even be sane.

There is already a Restricted Class license, the standards are exacting, the regulations are absurdly strict, draconian in fact, and the penalties for failing to comply are severe.

What's the problem with that?  If the Restricted Class draconian gun control is not strict enough for you, I doubt anything ever would be then, short of prohibition.

Prohibition is not gun control.   Prohibition is gun prohibition. 

At which point, even without an American second amendment, I would invoke the British right to bear arms in allowance of the law by the Bill of Rights 1689, foundational to all British and so by extension Canadian constitutional law.

The British Crown is not an absolute monarchy, the British Crown is a constitutional monarchy, the foundation of the modern liberal British state is the Glorius Revolution of 1688 and Westminster parliamentary democracy.  William of Orange, remember him?

The British Crown is still the Crown of Canada, you may not simply turn Canada into a Progressive Bolshevist police state at the whim of hysterical panic monkeys in downtown Toronto, to include the state propaganda arms therein.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[taxme]

On 8/1/2019 at 4:54 AM, Zeitgeist said:

The Federal Liberals’ Bill Blair was doing country-wide consultations on whether handguns should be banned in Canada after last year’s marked increase in gun homicides in Toronto.  Where are we with this?  Outside of hunting weapons, is it reasonable to take the risk of allowing civilians to carry handguns and assault rifles?  If so, what protections should be put in place to prevent the misuse of such weapons and their proliferation?  If we ignore this opportunity to ban them, could we soon reach a point of no return, such that people buy guns to protect themselves from too many bad guys who won’t give them up?  

I think all assault rifles should be banned among civilians and that the restrictions and screening for handgun ownership should be severe.  I’m also comfortable with a ban.  Allowing such weapons on the market to satisfy collectors and target shooters isn’t worth the public safety risk.  I also think that the penalty for illegal gun ownership should be quite harsh and widely publicized before and after a designated national gun amnesty period to hand in guns to police without any questions asked. 

Use a gun in the commission of a crime and that person gets an automatic twenty five year sentence in prison. No parole. Shoot and injure or kill someone and the shooter gets life in prison. No parole. It may not deter someone from wanting to use a gun to commit a crime, but if they do then this is what they will get  and the consequences for their reckless and uncaring stupidity. To take someone's life means that a shooter must forfeit their freedom for a life in prison. Our politically correct politicians need to stop pussy footing around something they have been very good at and have been doing so for decades now. No one here can argue with that kind of common sense and logic or can you? Let me know. 

[Dougie93]

In a constitutional democracy, individuals are protected by the rule of a mob of panic monkeys in downtown Toronto governing by the whim of absolutism.

Britons have the right to bear arms in allowance of the law, allowance of the law does not mean the right can be summarily revoked.

Gun prohibition is not gun control, gun prohibition is gun prohibition.  That's unconstitutional.

Even the American second amendment does not preclude gun control, just federal gun control, gun rights are states rights as the Well Regulated Militia are state militia's, there's plenty of gun control in America and has been since the 1880's.

When Bolshevists say "control",  what they really mean is prohibition.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

26 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

In a constitutional democracy, individuals are protected by the rule of a mob of panic monkeys in downtown Toronto governing by the whim of absolutism.

Britons have the right to bear arms in allowance of the law, allowance of the law does not mean the right can be summarily revoked.

Gun prohibition is not gun control, gun prohibition is gun prohibition.  That's unconstitutional.

Even the American second amendment does not preclude gun control, just federal gun control, gun rights are states rights as the Well Regulated Militia are state militia's, there's plenty of gun control in America and has been since the 1880's.

When Bolshevists say "control",  what they really mean is prohibition.

I’m good with prohibition of certain weapons and parliament is well within its rights to enact a ban.  I’m not talking about a manual load hunting rifle.  This isn’t about going after farmers protecting sheep from wolves or people hunting game that will be eaten.  If hunters want to do some skeet shooting or target practice in controlled settings, that’s probably fine.  It’s a matter of keeping weapons made for killing people out of civilians’ hands.  I simply don’t think it’s worth the risk.  People are too prone to act on emotion and misuse.  

[Dougie93]

16 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m good with prohibition of certain weapons and parliament is well within its rights to enact a ban.  I’m not talking about a manual load hunting rifle.  This isn’t about going after farmers protecting sheep from wolves or people hunting game that will be eaten.  If hunters want to do some skeet shooting or target practice in controlled settings, that’s probably fine.  It’s a matter of keeping weapons made for killing people out of civilians’ hands.  I simply don’t think it’s worth the risk.  People are too prone to act on emotion and misuse.  

You've already conceded that Canada is ruled by a cabal of undemocratic absolutist elites, so I'm not good which what you're good with, I'm counterrevolutionary to your Bolshevist elistism.

The mass shooters will switch to shooting people from the bell tower with "hunting" rifles and then you'll demand those too.

Life is risk and murder is already strictly prohibited many times over, a safety country is a police state by default, a free country is something else.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Dougie93

[marcus]

6 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

You're welcome to.  Her Majesty defends the right and I defend Her Majesty.

Thanks man. As I will defend your right to free speech!

My disagreement with you is not based on an opinion. This is a fact. Please consider the following google search returns - I compared the number of returns with Post Media, Global, Globe and Mail - CBC has many times more articles around the SNC scandal than anyone else:

[Dougie93]

Reporting scandals is irrelevant,  the CBC state propaganda arm indoctrinates Canadians from birth, fed to them like mothers milk.

Doesn't matter how many scandals the Liberals are outed for, indoctrinated Canadians do not question the narrow agenda of the Elite Consensus, which is a de facto Liberal one party state.

Canadians who reject the indoctrination have no recourse anyways, the CBCelite consensus prevails, no matter who you vote for, because Canada has a fake opposition to go with its fake free press and fake charter of rights, the opposition are just props.
 

The CBC is never going to lay out the big picture, which is that Canada is lawless, the elites are above the law, and that the CBC is fine with that, because the elites ensure the CBC doesn't get defunded, the CBCelites are senior in the pecking order of the Canadian Elite Consensus.

The vast, vast majority of CBC "news", is really just Libdipper talking heads editorializing on behalf the Libdipping, because everybody at the CBC is a Libdipper, then they truck out Andrew Coyne  as their fake "conservative", Andrew Coyne's job is to just tell people that the Libdipper's are right, don't bother to resist, just let them have their way, because the right is yucky.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Bear in mind that I'm not saying the Liberals are like Soviets under Stalin, they're not Stalinist, although they seem prepared to sell Canadians down the river on behalf Stalinists in Beijing.

The Liberals are like the Soviets in the 1980's, which by then the Soviets had their own version of the Sunny Ways facade, the 1980's Soviet elite consensus had the appearance of being moderated, although behind the scenes it was still under the thumb of the RCMP, er I mean KGB.

It's like the RCMP didn't even do an investigation of Vice Admiral Norman, the Irving family elites apparently directed Scott Brison to have Norman arrested, Scott Brison appears to have told the RCMP to arrest him on trumped up charges, and the RCMP appears to have done so, that's how it worked in the post Stalinist Soviet Union, Mark Norman like a dissident to be exiled to the closed city of Gorky, Vice Admiral Sakharov.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

You've already conceded that Canada is ruled by a cabal of undemocratic absolutist elites, so I'm not good which what you're good with, I'm counterrevolutionary to your Bolshevist elistism.

The mass shooters will switch to shooting people from the bell tower with "hunting" rifles and then you'll demand those too.

Life is risk and murder is already strictly prohibited many times over, a safety country is a police state by default, a free country is something else.

No, Canada is a meritocracy in its bureaucracy: If you have the skills training and a good track record, you’re more likely to get the job than someone lacking in those areas, as it should be.  Politics are a separate matter as political party leaders must satisfy their membership and the general public to get anywhere.  None of this has anything to do with indoctrination or some unelected “cabal” that runs everything.  That doesn’t exist in Canada.  What, you think some government gets installed here?  Get real.  Anyone can join a party, work within it, and pitch ideas.  

With regard to your other matter of my “elitism”,  I’m only elitist in the sense that I think qualified, intelligent people should run the show, not fools.  

On the topic at hand, there is no good reason in Canada today for civilians to own handguns and assault rifles, but if we don’t take the means to prevent further proliferation of such weapons, up to and including a ban, we will see more stupid horror stories like the two mass shootings that occurred in the US on the weekend.  Incredible that these occurred after my initial post and illustrate the problem.  

I really don’t care that some paranoid Second Amendment gun lovers don’t like it.  This 18the century notion that guns are needed in case the government needs to be overthrown is a laugh.  Remember Waco?  In the US if you start collecting weapons and doing weird shit, the police or military are coming to see you, thankfully.  I do see a lot of Americans wanting to own guns because they are fearful of other people with guns, so let’s make sure in Canada that we don’t get to that point.  

It’s actually normal in the US to know civilians who have been shot and lost family or friends to gun violence.  My American friends discuss it often.  There is greater fear and more to worry about when you go out at night down there.  

Again, this isn’t about going after hunters.  There is a difference between a manual load hunting rifle and a handgun.  

Anyway, I won’t convince people with a violent streak, gun lovers, or people who believe staunchly in that weird Second Amendment anachronism.  I hope there are enough sensible people who see the risks and are willing to take a precautionary stance.  

The Liberals that Dougie voted for are probably too fearful of the gun lobby ahead of an election to introduce further gun control.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Liberals that Dougie voted for are probably too fearful of the gun lobby ahead of an election to introduce further gun control.

Like I said, the Liberals actually wash their hands of it, the Liberals turn the whole thing over to the RCMP, the RCMP decides, the politicians duck it because it's a no win issue.

In terms of legislative regime change,  I seriously doubt the Liberals would eliminate the Restricted Class PAL, there will still be automatic rifles available, with the draconian regulations.

The Liberals know that outright banning is an overreach, they already have the gun grabbers, so they can't gain any votes, all they can do is lose votes there.

[bush_cheney2004]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

...Anyway, I won’t convince people with a violent streak, gun lovers, or people who believe staunchly in that weird Second Amendment anachronism.  I hope there are enough sensible people who see the risks and are willing to take a precautionary stance. 

 

There is no 2nd Amendment in Canada...that only applies to the U.S. Constitution (a different country).

If Canada wanted to ban handguns and "assault rifles", it could have done so by now...but it hasn't, and several recent "mass shootings" in Canada have not moved the needle.

What happens is the usual virtue signaling about "gun control" without any meaningful action(s).   The stupidly implemented (and crazy expensive) Gun Registry was put out of its misery with a political bullet.

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

There is no 2nd Amendment in Canada...that only applies to the U.S. Constitution (a different country).

If Canada wanted to ban handguns and "assault rifles", it could have done so by now...but it hasn't, and several recent "mass shootings" in Canada have not moved the needle.

What happens is the usual virtue signaling about "gun control" without any meaningful action(s).   The stupidly implemented (and crazy expensive) Gun Registry was put out of its misery with a political bullet.

 

 

The gun registry contained a lot of important data that the government had to subsequently throw out after the Conservatives overturned it.  That was dumb.  

I know we have no Second Amendment and I hope we keep it that way.  Some commentators on here say that makes us less free.  I say it makes us freer and we should go further with gun restrictions and bans.