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Doug Ford just isn't popular


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27 minutes ago, Boges said:

Yes but as already demonstrated. The actual population density of Hamilton isn't all that much. If it can be demonstrated that the buses are at max capacity, then perhaps there'd be an argument. 

The GO Train is a commuter train, this LRT would serve to get people from one end of Hamilton to the other, it serves people already using Public transit and doesn't get anyone off the roads. 

Nonsense.

LRT is specifically designed to get people in/out of the city by connecting to GO, and also to efficiently serve the very overloaded bus line that it replaces, and accommodate new large residential developments planned along the route.

1 LRT train = 6-7 articulated buses = ~12 regular city buses. 

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1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You do not speak for the "vulnerable", stop pretending to.

I’m speaking in support of a project that would benefit them and the city as a whole.  As someone who has been both an outsider and insider with regard to Hamilton, there is a clear division between a dated, small-time perspective of what Hamilton can be and a much grander vision of Hamilton’s long term potential as a truly diverse, high-tech manufacturing hub rather than a decaying one horse rust belt steel town.  Hamilton has a beautiful geography at the end of Lake Ontario by the Royal Botanical Gardens and Cootes Paradise.  It has mountain views, solid housing stock whith a lot of character, a great university, children’s hospital, and colleges.  It also has fruit belt and state of the art shipping infrastructure to feed the steel works.  It is a truly independent city with its own identity that is getting a second life as Torontonians move in for the far more affordable housing.  Some downtown areas have always been liveable, such as Westdale, Hess Village, Locke Street, Concession, Strathcona, St. Clair, Blakeley, etc., and some areas are on the rise, especially Ottawa Street.  However, there’s a lot of desperation closer to the steel works and in areas like Barton Village or Wellington.  The number of residents on disability and welfare is alarming.  Hamilton once was and can again be a beautiful city, and not just on the mountain in places like Dundas or Ancaster.  The downtown has great Georgian and Victorian bones, old warehouses, and human scale commercial strips that could be special with a bit of money and attention.  That takes decent transportation infrastructure and long term business investment.  Pulling the plug on the LRT shows cynicism and lack of vision.  

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20 hours ago, Cannucklehead said:

I guess by "it" you mean Ford.  Good to know what I can call him next time I meet him.  

Again. "It"(report)said that "it" would cost five times more the cost. I do not believe that I had to say "Ford" instead of "it" for you to understand? Liberals?? Call him whatever you want to call him. I will call him(Ford)a conservative, and a politician who is at least trying to save taxpayer's tax dollars, unlike liberals and socialists who thinks that taxpayer's are a bunch of millionaires, who can afford to pay five times the cost. ;)

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3 hours ago, Boges said:

Yes but still only a few hundred thousand. Gentrification is already helping Hamilton, and the fact that its Real Estate is not yet the price of Halton or Peel. 

It is a unique Urban Centre. But as part of the greater transit plan, it's got some serious challenges.

Its core is too far from the QEW/407/403 junction. People still opt for Stoney Creek and even Grimsby as a commuting option. 

This LRT would only improve the last mile/first mile problem for people in the core. Transit options already exist there. So this doesn't get anyone out of their car. 

Simply not true.

In addition to 4 GO hubs in/out of the city, the LRT connects to the downtown local bus hub that serves the entire city. 

Some people will never get out of their cars. They are not the target population, but they are the loudmouth opposition. They will find a lot less congestion as they speed through downtown (all they ever care about) with 600 passenger LRT trains than with the 12 buses that one train replaces. 

The Chamber of Commerce - the bastion of Conservatism - weighs in on Ford's big mistake: 

 https://raisethehammer.org/article/3718/hamilton_chamber_of_commerces_statement_on_ford_government_revoking_support_for_hamilton_lrt

Hamilton has seen unprecedented investment along the B-line since the province committed to funding the LRT. In fact, the city experienced a 500% increase in new residential units downtown.

...

“It’s hard to hear the province’s ‘Open for Business’ mantra without laughing. This decision directly harms business and private investment in our city”, said Keanin Loomis, President and CEO of the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce.

“Furthermore, it is irresponsible and reckless management of hard earned tax dollars. 

The CoC is not exactly pussy-footing around Ford! Lol 

Edited by jacee
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34 minutes ago, jacee said:

Simply not true.

In addition to 4 GO hubs in/out of the city, the LRT connects to the downtown local bus hub that serves the entire city. 

Some people will never get out of their cars. They are not the target population, but they are the loudmouth opposition. They will find a lot less congestion as they speed through downtown (all they ever care about) with 600 passenger LRT trains than with the 12 buses that one train replaces. 

The Chamber of Commerce - the bastion of Conservatism - weighs in on Ford's big mistake: 

 https://raisethehammer.org/article/3718/hamilton_chamber_of_commerces_statement_on_ford_government_revoking_support_for_hamilton_lrt

Hamilton has seen unprecedented investment along the B-line since the province committed to funding the LRT. In fact, the city experienced a 500% increase in new residential units downtown.

...

“It’s hard to hear the province’s ‘Open for Business’ mantra without laughing. This decision directly harms business and private investment in our city”, said Keanin Loomis, President and CEO of the Hamilton Chamber of Commerce.

“Furthermore, it is irresponsible and reckless management of hard earned tax dollars. 

The CoC is not exactly pussy-footing around Ford! Lol 

Get over it. Ford is still way popular than you want people to believe. I doubt very much that the people who voted for Ford want Wynne back again in the Premiers seat. Why is it that leftist liberals and socialists can never accept the fact that they lost an election. They just keep whining and crying every day about their loss. They had their shot at it, and now it's someone else's turn to have a go of it. Stop worrying? There will be another election in four years and maybe then you can get Wynne or another person like Wynne back in power. Canada has not quite become a communist country just yet, although I believe that there are many politicians in this country who would love to turn Canada into a communist country. Just my opinion of course. ;)

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48 minutes ago, taxme said:

Get over it. Ford is still way popular than you want people to believe. I doubt very much that the people who voted for Ford want Wynne back again in the Premiers seat. Why is it that leftist liberals and socialists can never accept the fact that they lost an election. They just keep whining and crying every day about their loss. They had their shot at it, and now it's someone else's turn to have a go of it. Stop worrying? There will be another election in four years and maybe then you can get Wynne or another person like Wynne back in power. Canada has not quite become a communist country just yet, although I believe that there are many politicians in this country who would love to turn Canada into a communist country. Just my opinion of course. ;)

I was tired of the provincial Liberal government, but I dislike them less than this current government.  They cut services yet outspend the Liberals.  They don’t even offer tax cuts.  Weak.  

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16 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canceling the Hamilton LRT is an enormous mistake, as Hamilton is a city in need of revitalization where transit use is high (and therefore not as subsidy dependent).  Poverty and mental health/disability rates are high, yet Hamilton has the potential to become the affordable housing suburb of Toronto if the right infrastructure moves are made.  I recommend scaling back the project slightly, perhaps starting with a shorter line, and asking the federal government to chip in.  Ford has included operating costs in the price tag that haven’t been included in some other LRT project accounting, at least not to the same degree.  Businesses had started investing on the fair assumption that the LRT would be built and well over 100 million has already been spent on this project.  Canceling it is a very stupid idea for which Ford will pay a big political price.  He should reverse course in a hurry.  This is an opportunity for both Trudeau and Ford to show that they don’t just care about the elites in places like Toronto and Ottawa. 

I dont think so.Look at the mess ottawa is in with its new over budget and not on time LRT. I think the one hamilton was buying was the same one. A proper bus service is alot better. There are now people that took a bus to work in ottawa that now need to take a bus, LRT and then another bus.

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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I was tired of the provincial Liberal government, but I dislike them less than this current government.  They cut services yet outspend the Liberals.  They don’t even offer tax cuts.  Weak.  

I suppose that one could say that the money saved from cutting services can now be spent on more important things. Ford and the conservative party have only been in power for one year. Yet no one seems to want to give them a chance to see what they can do. Wynne was spending tax dollars like a drunken sailor, and was trying to turn Ontario into a leftist liberal Sodom and Gomorrah province. Had Wynne stayed in power, I can see pedophilia, incest, and beastiality being pushed by Wynne to be made legal in Ontario. Sex appeared to be the only thing on her lesbian mind. What the hell did Wynne ever do for Ontario anyways, except to maybe give them some sexual perversion practices.

Maybe you can tell me as to what this leftist liberal Wynne did to help make Ontario great? This I need to know? So? 

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9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I was tired of the provincial Liberal government, but I dislike them less than this current government.  They cut services yet outspend the Liberals.  They don’t even offer tax cuts.  Weak.  

And brings in alot more revenue than wynne did . He is cutting rules and regulations to allow this province to get back to work. Ford is doing a good job with what he has to work with,but there is always people that are never happy or understand deficits.

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1 minute ago, PIK said:

And brings in alot more revenue than wynne did . He is cutting rules and regulations to allow this province to get back to work. Ford is doing a good job with what he has to work with,but there is always people that are never happy or understand deficits.

The ones who do not understand economics and how to handle taxpayer's tax dollars properly are the likes of politicians like lefty liberal Wynne and her lefty hero Trudeau. The problem with most people like those Ford haters is that they read and listen too much to the alt-lefty liberal Ontario MSM like the pro leftist liberal Toronto Star which is no fan of Ford or conservatives. These anti- Ford people will not even give Ford the chance to see what he can do. It seems to be always the same way with these lefty liberals. When a conservative like Ford wins an election, the lefty liberal Ontario and Canadian MSM will go into attack and mock mode. They have a problem with losing. They just cannot take a loss, and they think that they must win all the time. They can be such a bunch of whiny children and always act like crybabies when they lose to a conservative. Liberals????? What more can be said about those losers. :D

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35 minutes ago, PIK said:

I dont think so.Look at the mess ottawa is in with its new over budget and not on time LRT. I think the one hamilton was buying was the same one. A proper bus service is alot better. There are now people that took a bus to work in ottawa that now need to take a bus, LRT and then another bus.

The LRT is both a more efficient people mover and a huge improvement of the streetscape.  In many respects Buffalo’s LRT rescued that downtown.  It’s about improving the city fabric, city building.  

I’m neither Liberal nor Conservative, and if I see a sharp political platform that makes good sense I’ll support it.  The provincial Liberals can point to a few concrete contributions: the Greenbelt, GO expansion, Eglinton Crosstown, multiple LRT’s, closing coal energy production, and implementing Full Day Kindergarten.  They also botched ORNGE and cost taxpayers 100’s of millions in the Halton gas plant cancellation.  However, in one year Ford has thrown away 100’s of millions on the botched Hydro file and nonsense like this LRT cancellation, pissed off families with autistic children, alienated labour with pay hikes well below the rate of inflation during a time of economic growth, and outspent the Liberals.  Perhaps cutting Toronto City Council will provide savings, but not much.  His one good plan, the Ontario Line, hasn’t progressed much beyond drawings on a napkin.  Cities will end up with less than under the Liberals, especially have-nots like Hamilton.  We traded a smart cap and trade with a blunt carbon tax that hits individuals harder.  Where are the tax cuts and business investment?  I’ll tell you that right now the businesses and construction firms of Hamilton are pissed off.   This party can’t do conservative or liberal right.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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20 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/ontario-says-it-will-not-release-report-on-cost-of-scrapped-hamilton-rail-line/amp

 

And now they refuse to share the report that was claimed to breakdown the 5.5 billion estimate. 

Ford is digging his own grave with this.  

It doesn’t add up how a much shorter line in Hamilton can suddenly cost so much more than much longer LRT lines.  This could spell the end of Ford once the FOI requests are granted.  He broke a commitment and it looks like he did it because he doesn’t like the mayor, figures he won’t get many Hamilton votes, and hopes the community there won’t fight.  Big mistake.   If he’s smart he opens the books right away and asks for federal support for this project to go ahead.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

That takes decent transportation infrastructure and long term business investment.  Pulling the plug on the LRT shows cynicism and lack of vision.  

Pulling the plug on LRT shows that Hamilton doesn't want to waste all it's money on useless junk. The future is not LRT, and LRT will not benefit the vulnerable or the city as a whole. You basically support the monorail, and got roped in by catchy propaganda, rube city.

 

Edited by Yzermandius19
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The Simpsons monorail is a bad analogy—and a dated joke.  One of the reasons Kitchener-Waterloo draws more of the country’s talent, international talent in fact, than Hamilton, is because the city government, universities, and businesses there have advocated for and won investments like rapid transit. The Googles of the world have no interest in a backwater mentality.  Hamilton’s pedestrian unfriendly one-way downtown streets come from an era when residents fled the downtown to sprawling suburbs built around the car.  Cities became places to drive through to get to somewhere else.  Now of course people are moving back to the city because they see the value of having many amenities within walking distance and living in a village atmosphere with history and character.  

Jane Jacobs and other activists fought the construction of expressways through the centres of cities like New York and Toronto.  One of the reasons Toronto’s downtown took off is because of the “Two Kings” zoning that allowed mixed uses (commercial, residential, sometimes even light industrial) in areas that were one use (garment warehouses used only during work hours, for example) in the King and Spadina and King and Sherbourne areas.  Now of course those areas are very desirable places to live and work because of their diverse uses as lofts, arts communities, tech hubs, etc..  Kitchener-Waterloo and Ottawa have followed similar courses.  

The investment speaks for itself.   Government should be trying to position rust belt cities like Hamilton to reinvent themselves instead of writing them off.  The LRT is a city building gesture that serves multiple purposes, from making improvements to the streetscape to moving people more efficiently within the city to creating better connections to inter-city rail that connects Hamilton to a wider network of commerce in other cities.  

The Millennials, who are a larger percentage of the population than even the Boomers, will be living in smaller homes, condos mostly, closer to their workplaces because cars will be more expensive to operate and congestion on highways around growing cities will negatively impact quality of life.  This generation is demanding convenience and decent rapid transit, especially given their attitudes towards cutting greenhouse gases.  Retired Boomers also benefit from this kind of built form.  Either Hamilton joins this new wave of development or the city gets left behind.  Ford seems to be betting against Hamilton. 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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40 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Nope....very good analogy....and LRT becomes a mobile homeless shelter for the poor pushed out by development and skyrocketing rents. 

The monorail is the monorail, not the LRT or LRV, which is more like a larger, faster streetcar or surface subway.  Toronto was going to build multiple LRT’s under the Transit City plan which got scrapped by Rob Ford in favour of subways. The problem of course with subways is that they’re exponentially more expensive.  We all prefer them, but you can literally build an entire LRT line for the price of a 1-2 stop subway extension.  The Eglinton Crosstown is a hybrid that runs underground for part of the journey.  Ottawa’s does something similar but with a lesser technology.  The bottom line is that medium and large cities that have rapid transit have a big selling point over cities that don’t.  In a city with a larger population of poorer people without personal vehicles, decent rapid transit improves quality of life for more of the residents.  Look, I don’t have to sell it.  Investment follows rapid transit, period.  I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a massive class action lawsuit from the businesses that invested along the planned LRT route against the Ford government.  He reneged on this commitment and has gone into hiding as per usual.  It’s weak and he will be punished at the ballot box.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

....  Look, I don’t have to sell it.  Investment follows rapid transit, period.  I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a massive class action lawsuit from the businesses that invested along the planned LRT route against the Ford government.  He reneged on this commitment and has gone into hiding as per usual.  It’s weak and he will be punished at the ballot box.  

 

Ford's political fate is secondary to the real impact LRT projects have...both positive and negative.    I am surprised that the usual social justice warriors did not come out to oppose LRT's regressive funding and negative impact on existing infrastructure investment that benefits lower economic strata.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/lrt-kitchener-waterloo-affordable-housing-amsterdam-gentrification-1.4369342

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36 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Ford's political fate is secondary to the real impact LRT projects have...both positive and negative.    I am surprised that the usual social justice warriors did not come out to oppose LRT's regressive funding and negative impact on existing infrastructure investment that benefits lower economic strata.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/lrt-kitchener-waterloo-affordable-housing-amsterdam-gentrification-1.4369342

The only people who will benefit from not having an LRT in Hamilton are carpet-baggers who buy undervalued larger homes and have personal vehicles who are able to commute long distances because they can afford the 407 toll route or who wish to own such homes as rental investment properties.  The local transit user loses by not having the LRT.  The downtown businesses, university, and city tax base lose because agile new companies and sophisticated young people want rapid transit because they value accessible networks and convenience.  Look, the transformation will happen in spite of Ford and other dinosaurs because the people want these amenities.  I'm merely pointing out that by obstructing the process, Ford is revealing that he just doesn't get it.  He's not entirely alone.  There are some like-minded backwards Hamiltonians, even on city council.  Brampton couldn't approve a free LRT for similar reasons.  This is why places like Hamilton and Brampton have gotten a bad rep, because the cities are associated with a laggard mentality, which of course is unfair and doesn't capture all of the creative and advanced developments taking place in these cities.  Everybody knows, as Leonard Cohen would say. 

Ask anyone which city is better, Brampton or Mississauga?  Ask them why.  Ask which city is better, Hamilton or Kitchener-Waterloo?  Ask them why.  I can tell you that the answers will not be politically correct, nor will they be entirely accurate, but there will be some truth in the responses.  The former mayor of Brampton was associated with corrupt development.  The city council there has been dysfunctional (at least in the past).  Hamilton was associated with dysfunctional union and mafia corruption and a dysfunctional city council.  Now that Hamilton is trying to be better under the current mayor, a mandate supported by the people of Hamilton, Ford is keeping the city down because of its past association with the NDP and unions.  Basically Ford is giving Hamilton the shaft because he doesn't see political gains from Conservative voters.  He isn't a responsible steward of the province's cities.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

.....  Now that Hamilton is trying to be better under the current mayor, a mandate supported by the people of Hamilton, Ford is keeping the city down because of its past association with the NDP and unions.  Basically Ford is giving Hamilton the shaft because he doesn't see political gains from Conservative voters.  He isn't a responsible steward of the provinces' cities.

 

Ford's motives and ultimate fate will be long forgotten after the real impact of LRT projects sink in.   If not managed responsibly, the rush to blow billion$ on LRT  becomes a black hole that sucks dollars away from other infrastructure investment and competing priorities.

If LRT is such a better choice (compared to BRT) for redevelopment, then why not for all medium sized cities in Ontario.....cost !

 

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29 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Ford's motives and ultimate fate will be long forgotten after the real impact of LRT projects sink in.   If not managed responsibly, the rush to blow billion$ on LRT  becomes a black hole that sucks dollars away from other infrastructure investment and competing priorities.

If LRT is such a better choice (compared to BRT) for redevelopment, then why not for all medium sized cities in Ontario.....cost !

 

Well LRT's are the most cost effective form of rapid transit in the urban core where volumes don't justify subway construction.  Wynne's government had LRT's planned for most of Ontario's medium and large cities: Ottawa, K-W, Mississauga, Brampton, Toronto, London, and Hamilton.  It's very important to understand that the LRT costs in Hamilton are being grossly overstated because Ford is lumping in all operating costs over 30 years plus infrastructure costs that are being paid for out of other funding envelopes that aren't directly LRT-related:

"LRT budget was going to also pay for a lot of costs like sewer replacement / watermain replacement / Longwood bridge / York Blvd improvements (extra car lane + Cannon style cycle track extension to Dundurn Castle) as part of the "traffic management" solution / Full-length Braille Sidewalk along entire LRT (just like downtown & Concession). The LRT budget is not just the LRT alone itself. Realistically, less than half of the LRT budget is the actual LRT itself. A lot of dominoes were awaiting a lot of these." (Urban Toronto Forum)

This is important information for the public to understand, as there is a lot of important infrastructure work taking place as the LRT is being built that is practical to do while this digging and road/sidewalk reconstruction takes place.  Basically this is a major infrastructure lift for the city and a lot of preliminary work and property acquisition already took place.

With regard to your article on property/rental costs in K-W, note that the real estate market is quite different in Hamilton, where home prices are substantially lower.  Waterloo is the top engineering university in the country and the rental/home prices reflect the high income tech sector demand.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well LRT's are the most cost effective form of rapid transit. 

 

Sometimes LRT is the most cost effective, but not always.  There are several factors that favour one solution over another (BRT, LRT, Metro, or Heavy Rail).

First up is always how to fund LRT projects given existing revenue streams allocated to other infrastructure.   So what happens is usually an additional regressive tax to help pay for LRT.   Then the project boondoggle begins with guaranteed cost overruns and delays.   Finally it rolls out to much fanfare, and the competition for ridership numbers ensues with rosy smoke and mirror passenger mile costs.  

Is it a clash between legacy transportation modes and rapid transit...sure.  

It is amusing to watch HGTV programming out of Ontario wherein buyers of million dollar homes have to make choices based on proximity to a transit bus or train.

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58 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Sometimes LRT is the most cost effective, but not always.  There are several factors that favour one solution over another (BRT, LRT, Metro, or Heavy Rail).

First up is always how to fund LRT projects given existing revenue streams allocated to other infrastructure.   So what happens is usually an additional regressive tax to help pay for LRT.   Then the project boondoggle begins with guaranteed cost overruns and delays.   Finally it rolls out to much fanfare, and the competition for ridership numbers ensues with rosy smoke and mirror passenger mile costs.  

Is it a clash between legacy transportation modes and rapid transit...sure.  

It is amusing to watch HGTV programming out of Ontario wherein buyers of million dollar homes have to make choices based on proximity to a transit bus or train.

I’d argue that movement of people and goods/services in the Greater Golden Horshoe is the single biggest challenge to the success of the province, not just the region or its cities.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Smart move by ford. He seen what happened in ottawa and the mess they are in. And this thing I understand has to stop at intersections. Nice joke. The left is addicted to spending, even boondoggles. They love it.

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