jacee Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said: Backing out of useless infrastructure boondoggles is good for business, because the businesses don't get their tax rate hiked to pay for useless junk. The Chamber of Commerce and the downtown developers disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 I live downtown, I take public transit. Stop pretending that everyone who does agrees with you, they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Boges knows. Zeitgeist thinks he knows best for Hamilton and Hamiltonians, but he doesn't have clue. Hamilton will only ever have buses. Sorry losers! Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 Just now, jacee said: The Chamber of Commerce and the downtown developers disagree with you. Lots of people disagree with me, they are misguided. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Hamilton will only ever have buses. Sorry losers! Ford. Hamilton doesn't need LRT, not blowing more money is a good thing. Buying useless sh*t we don't need would make us losers. Thanks Ford, much appreciated. Edited December 18, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: Hamilton will only ever have buses. Sorry losers! Ford. Well a city like Mississauga would take priority at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Hamilton doesn't need LRT, that makes us winners. Ha ha. All the smart and highly employable people who make cities richer won’t settle for crap buses. It’s fine. Keep Hamilton uncompetitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Ha ha. All the smart and highly employable people who make cities richer won’t settle for crap buses. It’s fine. Keep Hamilton uncompetitive. All the smart and highly employable people who make cities richer won't settle for crap LRT either, and neither will the increased taxes to pay for the crap LRT make them settle either. You are trying to make Hamilton less competitive, stop pretending to be looking out for Hamilton's interests, you are doing the exact opposite. You can take your fake sympathy and shove it. Edited December 18, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Boges said: This doesn't help people move within the GTHA corridor. You're just WRONG about that. The LRT links to GO trains/buses in/out of the city. In fact, Hamilton has 4 GO Transit hubs, all near the proposed LRT. I have little stake in this and no strong feelings as I don't use transit much anymore (walk, bike, cab). However, I am disgusted that Ford is lying and fudging facts, and then refusing to even release the calculations that led to this 'decision'. Edited December 18, 2019 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jacee said: You're just WRONG about that. The LRT links to GO trains/buses in/out of the city. In fact, Hamilton has 4 GO Transit hubs, all near the proposed LRT. I have little stake in this and no strong feelings as I don't use transit much anymore (walk, bike, cab). However, I am disgusted that Ford is lying and fudging facts, and then refusing to even release the calculations that led to this 'decision'. Other public transit options lead to those transit hubs, they are not inaccessible and expensive boondoggles won't make them so much more accessible to warrant the costs. LRT is not needed, at all, and has very little to do with linking Hamilton to Toronto whatsoever. Edited December 18, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, jacee said: You're just WRONG about that. The LRT links to GO trains/buses in/out of the city. In fact, Hamilton has 4 GO Transit hubs, all near the proposed LRT. I have little stake in this and no strong feelings as I don't use transit much anymore (walk, bike, cab). However, I am disgusted that Ford is lying and fudging facts, and then refusing to even release the calculations that led to this 'decision'. It links to the GO Hubs, but so do buses. Downtown Hamilton isn't actually all that big or all that dense. The point remains that the project would still cost way more than the $1 billion the Liberals pledged. Which Hamilton will still get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Boges said: It links to the GO Hubs, but so do buses. Downtown Hamilton isn't actually all that big or all that dense. The point remains that the project would still cost way more than the $1 billion the Liberals pledged. Which Hamilton will still get. Yeah, Hamilton can blow the money on slightly less useless things, hurray for us. Thanks Ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Some jarring population density statistics. Hamilton's population density. 480.6 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3525005&TOPIC=1 The population density in other communities slated to get an LRT. Mississauga: 2,467.6 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3521005 Brampton: 2,228.7 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?GC=3521010&GK=CSD&Lang=Eng Kitchener: 1,705.2 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3530013&TOPIC=1 Waterloo: 1,639.8 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3530016&TOPIC=1 And just for Reference. Burlington, the upscale burb outside of Hamilton, which would have received ZERO benefit from the Hamilton LRT. 987.3 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3524002&TOPIC=1 A Hamilton LRT would be a money pit. Edited December 18, 2019 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 26 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Other public transit options lead to those transit hubs, they are not inaccessible and expensive boondoggles won't make them so much more accessible to warrant the costs. LRT is not needed, at all, and has very little to do with linking Hamilton to Toronto whatsoever. Nonsense. The LRT was designed and partially provincially funded BECAUSE it was to be part of the Ontario-wide transit network. LRT would link to FOUR GO TRANSIT hubs, carrying many more commuters than buses can, in and out of the city, and faster. If you know that little about the LRT functions, perhaps you shouldn't be commenting with your inaccurate 'facts', but asking questions instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jacee said: Nonsense. The LRT was designed and partially provincially funded BECAUSE it was to be part of the Ontario-wide transit network. LRT would link to FOUR GO TRANSIT hubs, carrying many more commuters than buses can, in and out of the city, and faster. If you know that little about the LRT functions, perhaps you shouldn't be commenting with your inaccurate 'facts', but asking questions instead. You buy silly propaganda used to sell boondoggles and make them seem palatable, very gullible. The LRT will not deliver on those false promises, whether you have faith in it or not. Edited December 18, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, Boges said: It links to the GO Hubs, but so do buses. Downtown Hamilton isn't actually all that big or all that dense. The point remains that the project would still cost way more than the $1 billion the Liberals pledged. Which Hamilton will still get. Do you know how many buses it takes to fill a GO train? Lol The LRT is much more efficient in transporting more people faster, reducing congestion and pollution, accommodating much denser developments downtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: You buy silly propaganda used to sell boondoggles and make them seem palatable, very gullible. People who don't understand complex developments dismiss them as 'boondoggles'. You, Ford and Skelly share that tendency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 Just now, jacee said: People who don't understand complex developments dismiss them as 'boondoggles'. You, Ford and Skelly share that tendency. People who don't understand boondoggles call them complex developments, thinking a nicer sounding label makes crap plans easier to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, jacee said: Do you know how many buses it takes to fill a GO train? Lol The LRT is much more efficient in transporting more people faster, reducing congestion and pollution, accommodating much denser developments downtown. Yes but as already demonstrated. The actual population density of Hamilton isn't all that much. If it can be demonstrated that the buses are at max capacity, then perhaps there'd be an argument. The GO Train is a commuter train, this LRT would serve to get people from one end of Hamilton to the other, it serves people already using Public transit and doesn't get anyone off the roads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: All the smart and highly employable people who make cities richer won't settle for crap LRT either, and neither will the increased taxes to pay for the crap LRT make them settle either. You are trying to make Hamilton less competitive, stop pretending to be looking out for Hamilton's interests, you are doing the exact opposite. You can take your fake sympathy and shove it. Hamilton won’t increase its tax base without attracting the kinds of people who demand a better transit infrastructure and more livable city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Hamilton won’t increase its tax base without attracting the kinds of people who demand a better transit infrastructure and more livable city. Hamilton won't increase it's tax base by raising taxes to pay for infrastructure boondoggles. LRT will not make Hamilton more livable, it will make it less livable, and raise the cost of living for all. There are way better ways to improve transit infrastructure than LRT, LRT is nothing but a money pit. Edited December 18, 2019 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Boges said: Some jarring population density statistics. Hamilton's population density. 480.6 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3525005&TOPIC=1 The population density in other communities slated to get an LRT. Mississauga: 2,467.6 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3521005 Brampton: 2,228.7 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?GC=3521010&GK=CSD&Lang=Eng Kitchener: 1,705.2 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3530013&TOPIC=1 Waterloo: 1,639.8 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3530016&TOPIC=1 And just for Reference. Burlington, the upscale burb outside of Hamilton, which would have received ZERO benefit from the Hamilton LRT. 987.3 people per square kilometrehttps://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/as-sa/fogs-spg/Facts-csd-eng.cfm?LANG=Eng&GK=CSD&GC=3524002&TOPIC=1 A Hamilton LRT would be a money pit. No actually. You have to look at the geographic area of Hamilton, which is enormous, running from Winona almost to Cambridge. The density downtown is high, which is where the LRT would be located and help revitalize an area that has seen major manufacturing losses and has big socioeconomic challenges. Of course these vulnerable people can’t push back, so it’s easy to screw them over, the people who would benefit the most from decent transit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Of course these vulnerable people can’t push back, so it’s easy to screw them over, the people who would benefit the most from decent transit. You do not speak for the "vulnerable", stop pretending to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: No actually. You have to look at the geographic area of Hamilton, which is enormous, running from Winona almost to Cambridge. The density downtown is high, which is where the LRT would be located and help revitalize an area that has seen major manufacturing losses and has big socioeconomic challenges. Of course these vulnerable people can’t push back, so it’s easy to screw them over, the people who would benefit the most from decent transit. LRT and related development corridors for housing and business has consistently led to gentrification of neighbourhoods. So yes....the poor get pushed out and cannot fight back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: No actually. You have to look at the geographic area of Hamilton, which is enormous, running from Winona almost to Cambridge. The density downtown is high, which is where the LRT would be located and help revitalize an area that has seen major manufacturing losses and has big socioeconomic challenges. Of course these vulnerable people can’t push back, so it’s easy to screw them over, the people who would benefit the most from decent transit. Yes but still only a few hundred thousand. Gentrification is already helping Hamilton, and the fact that its Real Estate is not yet the price of Halton or Peel. It is a unique Urban Centre. But as part of the greater transit plan, it's got some serious challenges. Its core is too far from the QEW/407/403 junction. People still opt for Stoney Creek and even Grimsby as a commuting option. This LRT would only improve the last mile/first mile problem for people in the core. Transit options already exist there. So this doesn't get anyone out of their car. Edited December 18, 2019 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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