The road to 2020

OftenWrong · August 21, 2020

On 8/18/2020 at 9:47 AM, Boges said:

Well do you have evidence that fraud is rampant?

Do you have evidence it's not? You and your evidence.

Here's one that just came out, in timely fashion.
Paterson, NJ, to hold new election in City Council race marred by voter fraud charges

Alex Mendez had won a special election on May 12 to fill the seat, but claims of voter fraud were soon raised. An investigation was then launched after the U.S. Postal Service's law enforcement arm told the state attorney general's office about hundreds of mail-in ballots located in a mailbox in Paterson, along with more found in nearby Haledon.

President Donald Trump has cited the disputed race as a case study in what could happen in an election conducted mostly by mail. His re-election campaign sued New Jersey on Tuesday in a bid to stop the state's plans to conduct the November general election mostly by mail.

See there... it's that much easier to commit fraud with mail-in but it is only a serious problem when it is being used on a much vaster scale than the system anticipated. In that case you need to improve ballot security, and it must be done before the vote actually happens. I have already explained this to you before.

Edited August 21, 2020 by OftenWrong

Moonlight Graham · August 21, 2020

8 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Keeping this fuzzy notion on topic, the 2020 election in the United States will select a president not based on popular vote, but by state electors allocated for the Electoral College.

That's true, I stand corrected. It was designed by rich educated white men to be controlled by rich educated white men, at least initially. Blacks, women, and non-property owning men could not vote initially. Oh wait it's still controlled by rich educated white men. I guess the votes don't matter that much when palms our being greased under and above the table.

America is a plutocracy.

bush_cheney2004 · August 21, 2020

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

That's true, I stand corrected.

....America is a plutocracy.

That's right...same as was/is Canada..."democracy" my ass.

For the 2020 election, about 40% of eligible U.S. voters will not vote for various reasons, and some of the ballots for those who do will be spoiled.

Boges · August 21, 2020

10 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Do you have evidence it's not? You and your evidence.

Here's one that just came out, in timely fashion.
Paterson, NJ, to hold new election in City Council race marred by voter fraud charges

Alex Mendez had won a special election on May 12 to fill the seat, but claims of voter fraud were soon raised. An investigation was then launched after the U.S. Postal Service's law enforcement arm told the state attorney general's office about hundreds of mail-in ballots located in a mailbox in Paterson, along with more found in nearby Haledon.

President Donald Trump has cited the disputed race as a case study in what could happen in an election conducted mostly by mail. His re-election campaign sued New Jersey on Tuesday in a bid to stop the state's plans to conduct the November general election mostly by mail.

See there... it's that much easier to commit fraud with mail-in but it is only a serious problem when it is being used on a much vaster scale than the system anticipated. In that case you need to improve ballot security, and it must be done before the vote actually happens. I have already explained this to you before.

Ultimately the debate is about Universal Mail-In voting. You get a ballot whether you ask for one or not. I'll entertain the idea that there could be potential problems there.

AFIK most states don't have that though. But a solid majority of states do allow registered voters to obtain an absentee ballot. Which would be their right.

The narrative is that using an absentee ballot to avoid voting in person because of COVID is not a good reason. But 35 states don't require any reason. That's why a President, who has access to a private jet, can vote by mail. But what? a person that has a job that doesn't allow him/her to stand in line all day to vote cant? BS!

I'm glad the Postal Service was forced to back-down on the efforts by the Trump Stooge Postmaster General to hamper the service.

Shady · August 21, 2020

On 8/19/2020 at 10:05 AM, DogOnPorch said:

Lecturing us all on the sanctity of the Oval Office...

Classic Democrat hypocrisy!

Shady · August 21, 2020

38 minutes ago, Boges said:

Ultimately the debate is about Universal Mail-In voting. You get a ballot whether you ask for one or not. I'll entertain the idea that there could be potential problems there.

AFIK most states don't have that though. But a solid majority of states do allow registered voters to obtain an absentee ballot. Which would be their right.

The narrative is that using an absentee ballot to avoid voting in person because of COVID is not a good reason. But 35 states don't require any reason. That's why a President, who has access to a private jet, can vote by mail. But what? a person that has a job that doesn't allow him/her to stand in line all day to vote cant? BS!

I'm glad the Postal Service was forced to back-down on the efforts by the Trump Stooge Postmaster General to hamper the service.

You still continue to ignore the fact that the mail service is in no position to handle 100 million+ votes in a national election. You still continue to ignore the science that in person voting is safe. You still continue to ignore the fact that states have tried to conduct just their primaries this year by all mail, and it was a complete and utter disaster, resulting in 20+% in ballot rejections, and 6 weeks to finalize results. You still ignore the fact that if even a few states are delayed in their vote counts on election day, the election CANNOT be certified. Stop being so obtuse.

Boges · August 21, 2020

Just now, Shady said:

You still continue to ignore the fact that the mail service is in no position to handle 100 million+ votes in a national election.

Why not, they deal with it on Holidays. They would handle that number of votes on election day anyway. In Canada we have to count people crossing an X on a piece of paper on election day.

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You still continue to ignore the science that in person voting is safe. You still continue to ignore the fact that states have tried to conduct just their primaries this year by all mail, and it was a complete and utter disaster, resulting in 20+% in ballot rejections, and 6 weeks to finalize results.

And you appear to ignore the fact that in the Wisconsin and Georgia primaries there were very long lines because of there were fewer polling places due to COVID-19.

Quote

You still ignore the fact that if even a few states are delayed in their vote counts on election day, the election CANNOT be certified. Stop being so obtuse.

Is it illegal for a Registered voter to vote by mail? Have any states (even Republican ones) moved to outlaw it. The only one I know of is Texas where you have to give a reason if you're under 65.

In fact in Florida and North Carolina, the GOP encourage it.

BTW hampering the Postal Services ability to deliver the mail will only make the situation worse. Which is the goal. Trump wants to create chaos so he can claim the election is invalid.

Shady · August 21, 2020

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Why not, they deal with it on Holidays. They would handle that number of votes on election day anyway. In Canada we have to count people crossing an X on a piece of paper on election day.

And you appear to ignore the fact that in the Wisconsin and Georgia primaries there were very long lines because of there were fewer polling places due to COVID-19.

Is it illegal for a Registered voter to vote by mail? Have any states (even Republican ones) moved to outlaw it. The only one I know of is Texas where you have to give a reason if you're under 65.

In fact in Florida and North Carolina, the GOP encourage it.

BTW hampering the Postal Services ability to deliver the mail will only make the situation worse. Which is the goal. Trump wants to create chaos so he can claim the election is invalid.

You didn't address any of the issues. Mail and gifts are often delivered late on holidays. But that's irrelevant. Like I've already stated, it's a fact that states have already tried your way, with disasterous results. Delays in states certifying their results, delays the election being certified. Pushing for an all mail in election vote will create complete and utter chaos. Not the other way around. I'm done with you. You're just a troll.

Boges · August 21, 2020

10 minutes ago, Shady said:

You didn't address any of the issues. Mail and gifts are often delivered late on holidays. But that's irrelevant. Like I've already stated, it's a fact that states have already tried your way, with disasterous results. Delays in states certifying their results, delays the election being certified. Pushing for an all mail in election vote will create complete and utter chaos. Not the other way around.

You only have an example of New York, which is one state which doesn't allow voters to obtain absentee ballots without a reason.

What about the 5 states that have used Mail-In voting universally for multiple elections without any dispute?

Also, what do you propose happens? Banning Absentee balloting this late in the race?

Quote

I'm done with you. You're just a troll.

I accept your surrender.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Boges

WestCanMan · August 21, 2020

4 hours ago, Shady said:

I'm done with you. You're just a troll.

I don't think it's that unusual to come into contact with people who are getting paid to run disinformation campaigns online.

It's impossible for there to be a single soul in N/A who doesn't know that CNN is just fabrication and filth by now. It's well past the point where there could still be 10,000 "useful idiots".

Edited August 21, 2020 by WestCanMan

Shady · August 21, 2020

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't think it's that unusual to come into contact with people who are getting paid to run disinformation campaigns online.

It's impossible for there to be a single soul in N/A who doesn't know that CNN is just fabrication and filth by now. It's well past the point where there could still be 10,000 "useful idiots".

It's crazy how people just trust CNN as some kind of objective news source, and that only Fox News has some kind of political bias.

WestCanMan · August 21, 2020

6 minutes ago, Shady said:

It's crazy how people just trust CNN as some kind of objective news source, and that only Fox News has some kind of political bias.

No one ever admits to watching CNN though, when asked.

Apparently they all get their CNN talking points from a different source.

Shady · August 21, 2020

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

No one ever admits to watching CNN though, when asked.

Apparently they all get their CNN talking points from a different source.

I think Bubber uses blogs. He also gets a lot of his talking points from his buddy waldo that posts on a different forum. Then he just regurgitates the information here. People like Boges just take at face value anything they hear in the mainstream media as it pertains to Trump, if it's a negative story. It re-enforces his preconceived ideas, whether it's truthful is irrelevant. So when he hears that Trump wants to boycott Goodyear because Goodyear banned political attire, he thinks that it must be true. It doesn't matter that the actual truth is that Goodyear banned Blue Lives Matter attire, but allows Black Lives Matter attire. And so the boycott comes from an biased policy, not from any banning of all political attire. It's lie and half-truths such as these that the Never Trumpers litter this forum with. It's funny though. If Trump was even a little as bad as they say, they shouldn't have to constantly lie.

Moonlight Graham · August 21, 2020

15 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

That's right...same as was/is Canada..."democracy" my ass.

For the 2020 election, about 40% of eligible U.S. voters will not vote for various reasons, and some of the ballots for those who do will be spoiled.

That's got nothing to do with it. It's someone's choice not to vote or not vote

bush_cheney2004 · August 21, 2020

5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

That's got nothing to do with it. It's someone's choice not to vote or not vote

Has plenty to do with it....is it "democracy" if only 10% of voters cast ballots ?

Moonlight Graham · August 22, 2020

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Has plenty to do with it....is it "democracy" if only 10% of voters cast ballots ?

Why not? You have a democratic choice to not vote. You can spoil your ballot by choice too.

OftenWrong · August 22, 2020

23 hours ago, Boges said:

Ultimately the debate is about Universal Mail-In voting. You get a ballot whether you ask for one or not. I'll entertain the idea that there could be potential problems there.

I feel you are right about the possibility of setting up a good main-in voting system. Maybe some states were able to set that up for themselves, and depends on the population density I would suggest. If you have vast open land rural areas, hard to drive to the polling booth. Makes sense to vote by mail then. And those with lower population will be able to handle the volumes. But if the system is not already in place to handle large volumes now, I see that as a possible risk. It takes proper planning, money, people already in place to make this work on a huge scale. Can't be done in a few months right before an election. If they are in a state of emergency then it's better to postpone the election for a while, as seen happening elsewhere already. Postpone it until everyone agrees a secure vote by mail system is in place.

onlythetruthmatters · August 22, 2020

On 8/20/2020 at 12:14 PM, WestCanMan said:

Dead people were registered. They still get to vote.

7,700 people die every day in the US. That's 770,000 every 3 months. Theoretically, if they're dead, they don't get to vote anymore.

The dems are compulsive liars. Why didn't they make these changes(mail votes) when Obama was president and they controlled both houses. Now that Trump is President and they only control congress they want to do everything their way.......

onlythetruthmatters · August 22, 2020

Remeber the Hilary Clinton phone scandel the mainstream media played out a few years ago...well it wasn't her phone she had 2 separate servers one in her Basement and one in her washroom......She is the only person to ever put a computer server in her washroom......Lock her Up....

onlythetruthmatters · August 22, 2020

Democrats are idiots they are mostly middle and lower class and they fall for the democratic tactic of attacking labour by uncontrolled immigration.....Which has a direct effect on wages especially in the southern states.....increase immigration and lower working wages...the two go hand in hand

WestCanMan · August 22, 2020

33 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I feel you are right about the possibility of setting up a good main-in voting system.

If that's a democratically arrived-at solution that's one thing, but using mail-in ballots as the primary tool for a Presidential election is not something that the Dems should be allowed to unilaterally foist on America.

The Dems just got caught cheating to overturn the last election and every great idea that they come up with to make elections 'better' is actually a scam to make them worse. "Get rid of the ID requirement!" and "Illegal immigrants should be allowed to vote!" lol. They are not working in America's best interests, the are just looking for new ways to cheat.

Mail-in ballots already casued two election fiascos this year in the Iowa caucases and North Carolina.

Who says that the whole election has to be done in one day? If social distancing is a real requirement then why not vote over two days? Or three?

There are other solutions aside from the one that has the most potential for voter fraud.

WestCanMan · August 22, 2020

5 minutes ago, onlythetruthmatters said:

Democrats are idiots they are mostly middle and lower class and they fall for the democratic tactic of attacking labour by uncontrolled immigration.....Which has a direct effect on wages especially in the southern states.....increase immigration and lower working wages...the two go hand in hand

The Dems assured Americans that illegal immigration doesn't hurt the bottom line for low-income Americans. It must be true. (sarcasm)

Edited August 22, 2020 by WestCanMan

OftenWrong · August 22, 2020

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

There are other solutions aside from the one that has the most potential for voter fraud.

So the best option is to postpone it then. Indefinitely, until the virus is gone and people are safe to come out and vote. Too soon to try anything new and radical now. It's postpone, or do it with the virus out there.

And in the US, man oh man it's out there.

Shady · August 22, 2020

A judge just overturned an election in New Jersey that took place in May because of mail-in voter fraud. Most states can’t handle a massive increase in mail in ballots anyways, and Dems want ballots to be accepted up to 4 days after Election Day. It would be chaos for weeks as the election couldn’t be certified. And with up to 20% ballot rejection because of incorrectly filled out ballots, there’d be legal challenges like back in Florida 2000 to examine every ballot. It’s a recipe for unmitigated disaster. But the never Trumper mouth-breathers don’t care. It’s all about defeating him by any means necessary. It’s truly disgusting.

Argus · August 22, 2020

5 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

If that's a democratically arrived-at solution that's one thing, but using mail-in ballots as the primary tool for a Presidential election is not something that the Dems should be allowed to unilaterally foist on America.

Are you that lost to reality that you don't understand that voting by mail has been around decades and that some states - Republican states - mostly vote by mail now? Trump even told people to vote by mail in Florida, which, since it's a Republican state, he's all in favour of.