Is this a lie? "Liberal defence policy forecasts that by 2025, annual defence spending will rise to $32.7 billion"

[Dougie93]

I've already started referring to it as a foreign country, because once you realize how dysfunctional it is, suddenly it dawns on you that the Pequistes are right and I am wrong, and then, boom, you're cured of the Canadian Disease in a split second,

And then afterwards you feel nothing for it, Confederation looks like a foreign invader who is abusing us.

I already say Upper Canada as we and Canada as they.   That is what it is to be a Pequiste.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[WestCanMan]

15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Just another liberal lie, to shore up some support from the military. And we fall for the same thing every year....

 

They get the chance to say it now to look good, but when the time comes to spend it “Oops, we gave that money to 10 countries that you never heard of (global warming) and we spent an extra $5B re-educating terrorists and war criminals so that they could come to Canada and be a powerful voice against the continuing rise of terrorism in our society”.

[Dougie93]

And I'm not seeking the approval of the majority here, I don't expect the Canadian Disease to say "Hey, great Idea, Dougie",  of course not, they are emotionally invested so there's no sense appealing to the masses about it.   Thankfully, their Confederation is unstable right from 1759.  

Britain and France do not actually work together after all, hence why the two countries in one country  is called les Deux Solitudes.

All I'm saying is that it's not two solitudes, it's more like five solitudes, where only two of them get any say in the direction of the country, causing the other three to be forced into self hating Canada, and if they get even a moment to make a decision, the two big solitudes then go self hating Canada about that and scream "American Style Fascism!"

And from there flows all the dysfunction, corrupting the entire government to try force it all together by pork barreling and not much else. It's funny how Canadians are afraid of China insidiously stealing from and sabotaging Canada, when that is in fact what the Government of Canada does, the Provinces are Canada's real countries and they work fine more or less, and then there's this crazy corrupt People's Republic in Ottawa.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

I'm not asking their permission.   Their Confederation is unstable and can be taken down with just winning a few ridings in Quebec, and Canada's SCC has said that it is not only legal, it's a constitutional right.

Even Canada's own Prime Minister is already calling it a Post National Country.  

And yet Canadians’ contributions in Afghanistan were substantial, the third largest.  Canada remains one of the best countries in which to live and work. I don’t buy for a second that you’re Canadian given your damaging hopes and remarks.  Nice try though.  

[Dougie93]

It's not a radical position in Canada, the only people who don't talk about breaking the country up, are in Ontario.  

Ontario is Canada, run by downtown Toronto Left Wing Dingbats at the CBC.  No wonder most Canadians outside of Torontoland actually despise Canadian Confederation.  Love your land, love your people, hate your Confederation, is literally the essence of Canada, you're just a Millennial and nobody has ever taught you the central narrative of Canadian history, all you know is social history, which was deliberately fed to you by the CBC in Toronto so you wouldn't know your own history, so they could scam you into thinking Canada is supposed to be a de facto dictatorship for all intents and purposes from Ottawa.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

It's not a radical position in Canada, the only people who don't talk about breaking the country up, are in Ontario.  

Ontario is Canada, run by downtown Toronto Left Wing Dingbats at the CBC.  No wonder most Canadians outside of Torontoland actually despise Canadian Confederation.  Love your land, love your people, hate your Confederation, is literally the essence of Canada, you're just a Millennial and nobody has ever taught you the central narrative of Canadian history, all you know is social history, which was deliberately fed to you by the CBC in Toronto so you wouldn't know your own history, so they could scam you into thinking Canada is supposed to be a de facto dictatorship for all intents and purposes from Ottawa.

I’m a middle aged Canadian with post grad degrees.  I have worked in Russia and studied in England where I also have citizenship.  You are clearly writing through a certain American lens for a certain American audience. Your views carry little water in Canada. It doesn’t matter. The older cynic is replaced by the younger builder of the coming society.  

[GostHacked]

17 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Just another liberal lie, to shore up some support from the military. And we fall for the same thing every year....

Tell me how the people are to blame again.

17 hours ago, Army Guy said:

According to these new figures that the liberals never planed to raise DND budget to more than 1.1 % of GDP.....Man did they ever make it sound good, went out to the general public asked for what they thought, and to the amazement of the liberals most supported spending more , much more on defense.....The liberals never intended to listen to the public ,they have had this planed all along and have been leaking it out slowly....my only question would be WHY, just before an election....do Canadians have long enough memories , maybe not....

Just before an election? Call me crazy, but that's just hot air to appease people who have no idea what is going on.

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m a middle aged Canadian with post grad degrees.  I have worked in Russia and studied in England where I also have citizenship.  You are clearly writing through a certain American lens for a certain American audience. Your views carry little water in Canada. It doesn’t matter. The older cynic is replaced by the younger builder of the coming society.  

Leadership is not a popularity contest, and I'm not trying to recruit Canadians to my cause because I only need Quebec, and it's only gonna take a bad recession and immigration hysteria to whip them up into a frenzy for another referendum.  Canadians don't get to vote in the referendum so view of it is sidelined.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

Leadership is not a popularity contest, and I'm not trying to recruit Canadians to my cause because I only need Quebec, and it's only gonna take a bad recession and immigration hysteria to whip them up into a frenzy for another referendum.  Canadians don't get to vote in the referendum so view of it is sidelined.

Yeah not happening...

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Prima facie, if you can't see it, not sure what I can do to help you, because, no offence, but from where I'm sitting, to deny the obvious reality of it, would be delusional.

In terms of the "support" of Canadians for the military, it is entirely rhetorical, because they say one thing and then vote exactly in the opposite direction.

I would submit, that is because the Canadian Public does not view the Canadian Forces are their servants, but rather the servants of the Americans, but also they have been indoctrinated by the socialist leftist dogma to view armed forces not as proud warriors but rather hapless victims and dupes of imperialism, so they don't say the empty things they say about the military because they really care about national security, rather, they say it because they feel sorry for us, as victims.   Or rather they feel sorry for you, because I am (ret.) now

And if you think the NSPS procurement boondoggle is really going to be aloud to cost anywhere near $60 billion delivering anywhere near the number of ships contracted, before they trim it back and/or cancel it and/or it simply collapses under its own weight and fails to launch, sorry, but again, I think you're delusional.

Sorry but I disagree, they are not bending the will of the electorate, but rather already know the outcome of the electorate vote, and I agree with you 100% that the vast majority of Canadians "Support" the military, until it comes to funding, thats where it stops..

I think the problem here is the average Canadian does not know anything about our military, Such as what is their job ? how they are equipped? all the basic stuff one should know about their military...and as such they can not make informed decisions on anything dealing with the Military...Nor does the government or DND want to educate them. Hence why a lot of them think we are servants of the US government...when it has a lot to do with all the defensive pacts we as a nation have signed on to , it is these very same , defensive pacts themselves that allow Canada do cheap out on it's entire security apparatus not just DND.

As for liberals looking at us as victims, not sure if any soldier really cares what any politician thinks of members of DND. With all the shit that the liberals and conservatives have thrown at DND during my career, I can honestly say I'd do it all again, not because I like to be bent over by our government , but because it was an honor to serve with of the good men and women of the forces...retired in 2014

The NSPS has already been trimmed, when it was estimated to cost 30 bil....I don't think I'm delusional , but rather hopeful..   

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yeah not happening...

I'm quite optimistic actually, because Canada is running up debt at all levels, federal, provincial, public,  private,  just takes one economic shock to get the ball rolling , because if they have a debt bomb go off, they have to reign in spending hard and fast, just like Chretien.   And what happened as soon as Chretien started cutting spending a big recession?

Quebec Referendum.

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

And if you want to know where this Canadian dogma of soldier = victim comes from, it comes from the Battle of the Somme in the First World War, where the British broke their Empire against the German defences, resulting in the world we live in today, in the wake of what was actually a War of British Hegemonic Succession, succession from the British Empire to the American Empire of Liberty, Canada flipping from British Colony to American colony therein.

Before the Battle of The Somme catastrophe, Canadians were amongst the most gung-ho of the gung-ho for war on behalf of the British Crown, in the entire Empire.

That is why the Canadian Expeditionary Force fought so valiantly and became the elite of the British Army, because the Canadians prior to the Somme, were more British than the British themselves, because of the proximity of the looming menace of the American republic, the Somme broke that and made it go in the opposite direction, to where we are now, in the Empire of Liberty, which is not Canada's job to defend, but rather the Americans job to defend, with Canada never going adventuring a' Somme again.

I disagree, Yes the battle of the Somme was tragic for the British forces, but no Canadians took part , with the exception of the Royal NFLD Regt who at the time was fighting under the British flag..., but it changed very little, British resolve and troop numbers remained constant through the war....Canada was still very much attached to Britian, still very much imbedded into the British chain of command even when for the first time the Canadian Corp would fight as one in the battle for Vimy. And much later during WWII we were once again at the British side at the beginning of the war...Still ultimately under British command....

I think it was well after the WWII that we became more attached to the US than the UK, the US was or had become a world super power, on all fronts and because of our proximity we were dragged along, and soon after that we became integrated both economically, and industrially  

[Queenmandy85]

The only country capable of invading Canada is the USA. That is unlikely to happen in the near future. For this reason, the Canadian electorate is opposed to having a viable military. I have always advocating having a viable military, but I am realistic enough to know I am in a tiny minority. A viable military is one that is able to defend our borders and destroy the enemy without having to rely on an outside help. Hence, the CAF nee nuclear weapons.

NATO's conventional forces exist as a trip-wire. If the Russians invade, NATO personnel will die and that will trigger an all out nuclear response. It really doesn't matter how many troops are stationed there or whether they are equipped with chieftain tanks or centurions. They are there as a warning sign. "Attack us and we all die." (Mutual Assured Destruction.)

That is the most viable defence policy for Canada. Build enough strategic nuclear weapons that any potential invader will "read the sign." 

As for Dougie's apocalyptic view of national unity, Quebec separation will lead to internal violent instability which will lead to the government of Quebec to request assistance from the Canadian military. I refer you to the OAS insurgency in Algeria after its separation from France. But this is a topic for another thread.

[Dougie93]

NFLD went in on the first day and were decimated, but that was just the first day, the Battle of the Somme went on for months, right into the winter.   Don't confuse the infamous first  day with the entirety of the battle, but it wasn't just that Canadians were being killed, the entire British Empire was shook, including Canada, it wasn't like now, it's not like they didn't care about the British being killed, but also just the scale and nature of it, and then it fails.  That shook the confidence of all parts of the Empire in the Government running it all in London.

 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

You have to put the Somme in context of what was expected vs what happened.   They were expecting it to be a walk over.   Because they hit the front with the biggest artillery bombardment in the history of the world, and they thought it was going to be like a tactical nuke and then they would casually walk over the German bodies.

 

And then it turns into the worst defeat in the history of Britain, not just the Empire, like in the history of the Britons.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

I'm quite optimistic actually, because Canada is running up debt at all levels, federal, provincial, public,  private,  just takes one economic shock to get the ball rolling , because if they have a debt bomb go off, they have to reign in spending hard and fast, just like Chretien.   And what happened as soon as Chretien started cutting spending a big recession?

Quebec Referendum.

If Canada has a debt problem, most of the rest of the G7 and OECD countries face a worse debt crisis.  That’s why central banks are maintaining low, stimulating interest rates and raising them very slowly without slowing the economy.  Long term debt is a problem worldwide unless countries eventually reduce it.  Some seek to grow their way out of debt (lowering debt to GDP).  The US is growing and raising debt at the same time. 

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

If Canada has a debt problem, most of the rest of the G7 and OECD countries face a worse debt crisis.  That’s why central banks are maintaining low, stimulating interest rates and raising them very slowly without slowing the economy.  Long term debt is a problem worldwide unless countries eventually reduce it.  Some seek to grow their way out of debt (lowering debt to GDP).  The US is growing and raising debt at the same time. 

A global economic crisis is when everybody faces it at once and the other OECD's worse situations go round the world and end up hitting us too, so even if I had schadenfreude for countries worse of than Canada, which I don't, that wouldn't make the situation better for Canadians, who would be enraged.   Does not take long at all for people to become enraged when they lose their career job, that's a family crisis, so nobody is saying "ha-ha, Italy, you got it worse than us".   

It's Canada, they're going to do what the autoworkers are doing at the Oshawa GM plant right now; blame Canada.  

Hey, three plants got closed in the US so of course the Americans have to close the Canadian plant in the age of Trump, is not what they are saying.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[PIK]

Actually it is a way the liberals can pay back thier donors. As in the irvings, which just got Scott Brison canned form his job. Another dirty liberal gone.

[Zeitgeist]

15 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

A global economic crisis is when everybody faces it at once and the other OECD's worse situations go round the world and end up hitting us too, so even if I had schadenfreude for countries worse of than Canada, which I don't, that wouldn't make the situation better for Canadians, who would be enraged.   Does not take long at all for people to become enraged when they lose their career job, that's a family crisis, so nobody is saying "ha-ha, Italy, you got it worse than us".   

It's Canada, they're going to do what the autoworkers are doing at the Oshawa GM plant right now; blame Canada.  

Hey, three plants got closed in the US so of course the Americans have to close the Canadian plant in the age of Trump, is not what they are saying.

Canada faces many of the same humdrum challenges as most of our trading partners.  If we go to hell at least our friends will be there. 

[Dougie93]

Nothing is going to hell, don't be so dramatic, there is only one existential threat, countervalue nuclear strike, other than that, life goes on, and if the federal government went away, life would go on as it is now, just much more efficient and all the regions of the Canada's get to decide their own destiny based on their real interests rather than the interest or propping up the Liberal Party of Canada's century long Confederation legacy project, just for it's own sake.

It's no different than Scotland leaving the United Kingdom, it's still Britain, the border isn't going to close, Scotland just gets the same deal Canada got, which is a  Dominion of their own.  Still in the Commonwealth and no change of Head of State, the Scots don't like the English, but the Queen is actually German.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[Army Guy]

I was not confused and took into account the entire battle, Both sides had used up all or most of it's resources, Germany lost most if not all of it's large peace time trained army, Britain's military had very little experience, and was on a huge learning curve....No doubt it shock the entire empire, close to 500k causality's will do that,   but not to the point where the empire was going to collapse, or Canada was thinking about changing alliances from the UK to the US ….I think the fact that the empires armies continued to grow in size, India, Canada, Australia, New Zealand , etc,  etc  continued to show huge amount of support that continued to grow with each victory, be it little or small I mean Canada built an army of 4 divisions , from  At the start of the conflict  Canada had a regular army of only 3,110 men and a fledgling navy. To do that one would think that Canadians supported the war effort and the British empire a lot...I also think history shows that this support continued to well after WWII, where once again we stood shoulder to shoulder with the British....

Was it a defeat, that would depend on who you talk to....it was the battle that forced both sides to the brink.... all sides had used up to many resources including men and machine, some say it was the turning point for the allies as Germany could not recover from those losses. Some say yes it was the huge defeat for the British...I think it was a defining moment for sure for the brits, but one that drew the empire closer, not futher apart

[Dougie93]

The transfer of Global  Hegenomy from the British to the Americans was not by voting, when I say the British broke their Empire at the Somme, I mean they went broke.

That's why they launched the Somme Offensive, because they were out of money, the war that was supposed to be over by Christmas 1914 had turned into a global conflagration with the British fighting the Germans world wide, so they needed the war to end, quickly.   That is what the Somme Offensive was supposed to do, but it failed.

So then they were at the mercy of the Americans, because if Wall Street didn't give it money, then Britain has lost the war.  At that point, the British are no longer in charge, the Global Hegemon has to be able to pay its bills.  Hegemon is not de jure, Hegemon is a de facto title.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

And I'm not seeking the approval of the majority here, I don't expect the Canadian Disease to say "Hey, great Idea, Dougie",  of course not, they are emotionally invested so there's no sense appealing to the masses about it.   Thankfully, their Confederation is unstable right from 1759. 

You're trying to portray this is our emotionalism vs your cold, hard logic. But there's little to support your beliefs. The provinces are often more poorly run than the federal government, and even more fiscally imprudent. The Atlantic provinces could not survive on their own, individually or in a group. The North couldn't either. BC prospers mostly despite a series of grossly incompetent governments because of illegal Chinese money and would be a Chinese colony if independent. Alberta hasn't had a competent government since Peter Lougheed and Ontario hasn't had one since Harris.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Argus

[Zeitgeist]

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

The transfer of Global  Hegenomy from the British to the Americans was not by voting, when I say the British broke their Empire at the Somme, I mean they went broke.

That's why the launched the Somme Offensive, because they were out of money, the war that was supposed to be over by Christmas 1914 had turned into a global conflagration with the British fighting the Germans world wide, so they needed the war to end, quickly.   That is what the Somme Offensive was supposed to do, but it failed.

So then they were at the mercy of the Americans, because if Wall St didn't give it money, the Britain has lost the war.  At that point, the British are no longer in charge, the Global Hegemon has to be able to pay its bills.

Canada truly became a country at Vimy Ridge, leading the charge with four divisions, the largest number of Canadian soldiers to have fought together.  Taking that strategic ridge was a win upon which further victories the following summer were built that turned the tide of the war.  Even Hitler honoured Vimy and had soldiers protect the monument.  Paintings of the battlefields line the Senate Chamber and names of the war dead are inscribed in the Peace Tower in the Centre Block of Parliament.  

Edited January 10, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

You're trying to portray this is our emotionalism vs your cold, hard logic. But there's little to support your beliefs. The provinces are often more poorly run than the federal government, and even more fiscally imprudent. The Atlantic provinces could not survive on their own, individually or in a group. The North couldn't either. BC prospers mostly because of illegal Chinese money and would be a Chinese colony if independent.

I don't care, I'm doing it for the freedom not the government services.