The Worst Time Ever to Accept the CPC

[GostHacked]

This whole thread is like parody accounts acting like certain current long standing members.

[scribblet]

14 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

This whole thread is like parody accounts acting like certain current long standing members.

I wonder how carefully they check for a VPN 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t disagree with much of what you are saying here.  Trudeau isn’t as strong as his dad, who was better able to capitalize on such tensions for political gain. However, there would be far fewer Canada-US tensions with a different president in office.  We’ve had good relations before between conservative presidents and liberal PM’s or vice versa.  I understand what Trump is trying to do standing up for American interests, but his damage to foreign relations is really a bridge too far.  Not even the US can go it alone. I get the whole tradition of isolationism, but the US will have to manage a rising China, an expansive Russia, continued challenges with supporting a restless demographic that may not have decent jobs due to automation and offshoring, climate/political mass migrations, etc.  Coordinated approaches with other countries can only help. 

 

From Trump's perspective, and the perspective of many Americans, Canada and other allies are continuing to ask the United States to go it alone when it comes to defense spending, trade imbalances, dumping, IP theft, etc.   Trump did not invent these issues out of thin air, and his greatest sin is actually trying to do something about them.   Trudeau and Freeland want Trump to continue protecting the "post WW2 (rules based) order" and globalization, but they don't want to pay their share for it.

Obama already pivoted American defense policy away from Europe to the Pacific, acknowledging China's surging economy and global aspirations.   The EU is now more populous and has a nearly equivalent GDP to the United States, but it still cries for a protective American umbrella...militarily (NATO) and economically (IMF).

Canada's political parties will make hay out of these international issues for domestic gain, but they have little influence and impact on a global scale.  Not many Americans, Russians, or Chinese stay up late to see which party won majority or minority control in the Canadian federal election...either way it will still be very benign.

Edited January 8, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[GostHacked]

1 minute ago, scribblet said:

I wonder how carefully they check for a VPN 

From the website POV, it's only going to show the incoming connected IP of the VPN which is indistinguishable from a non VPN IP.  So, really they can't.

[scribblet]

Just now, GostHacked said:

From the website POV, it's only going to show the incoming connected IP of the VPN which is indistinguishable from a non VPN IP.  So, really they can't.

I'm pretty sure there's a way of checking but admin would have to have an idea then check the IP they think is suspicious.  I don't think they use Statcounter here, but I know statcounter will often reveal the real address as opposed to the proxy or VPN but I think it depends on how good the vpn or proxy is. 

[turningrite]

10 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well, unemployment is at historic lows.  Our debt levels are reasonable relative to other G7 countries.  Legitimate immigration is going fine.  The border crossings were troublesome and we need to wind down refugee programs because we have to address third world conditions on some of the reserves.  That’s a big undertaking that requires courageous conversation.  Our headwinds are getting oil to markets and negotiating the surreal vagaries in the US.  The situation with China could go either way, but we’re caught in the middle of Trump’s trade wars. 

You seem to have glossed over a lot of facts. Many economists aren't convinced that the official unemployment rate is very meaningful. The legitimacy of the official unemployment rate is undermined by the facts that real wages are stagnant and the labour market participation rate (the percentage of working age people participating in the labour force) remains below pre-2008/09 levels. These latter indicators suggest that the current economy doesn't feature actual full employment. I watched a panel analysis on CNN the other day about the official American unemployment rate, which is even lower than ours, where some participants noted that while more Americans are employed many have to hold two or three part-time jobs in order the survive, thus rendering as nonsense the notion that the current low unemployment rate is an actual indicator of general prosperity.

As for immigration, there are lots of problems. The federal government itself analyzed some of these problems, determining that Canada's ability to "absorb" immigrants is declining (see article in link below). The report, which was obtained via an access to information request and then released in the media, is a sobering read for those who believe our immigration program to be swimmingly successful. The Fraser Institute has done what the federal government has failed to do by calculating the net costs (program costs incurred less taxes paid by the most recent generation of immigrants) to taxpayers associated with the recent massive influx of immigrants, pegging it at tens of billions of dollars annually. These costs, unfortunately, are largely hidden as a result of Canada's jurisdictional structure, with much of the burden being borne by taxpayers in immigrant receiving provinces like Ontario, which alone receives about one-half of all immigrants. Is this situation economically or politically sustainable? The experiences in other countries suggest it likely isn't.

And then there's the general economy, which is struggling to attract investment, as I pointed out in a previous post. Foreign investment is plunging. Our closest trading partner is no longer reliable and the one that might provide us an opportunity for diversification may not be a palatable or practical choice.

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-canada-struggling-to-absorb-immigrants-internal-report-says

Edited January 8, 2019 by turningrite

[montgomery]

9 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

 

Case in point, Canada and the USA, the Americans could crush us by protectionism, whereas we would only crush ourselves by trying that back at them and they wouldn't even notice.

 

And that's the reason why Canada must quickly diversify trade away from the US to more fair markets. The Conservatives think the opposite. Conservatives always blunder into saying the wrong things because of the dishonesty of their agenda.

And the rest of that rant was garbled nonsense

[Dougie93]

Just now, montgomery said:

And that's the reason why Canada must quickly diversify trade away from the US to more fair markets. The Conservatives think the opposite. Conservatives always blunder into saying the wrong things because of the dishonesty of their agenda.

 

There aren't any markets offering Canada a better deal, Canada is more protectionist than the Americans and so is every other country, the US is the least protectionist to Canada, so even if Canada diversifies by percentage, it's not going to yield more throughput than exporting to the Americans, so it will end up being small beer.

Canada wants it both ways, Canada wants to be protectionist while having access to everybody elses markets, and the result is that Canada's non US free trade deals like CETA and TPP are so meager in terms of bringing down barriers, so full of caveats which undermine the purpose, they're not going to be able to replace the Americans.

[montgomery]

12 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

No.  Jews at the time were demonized widely, for example when they tried to flee Nazi Germany to Canada, Liberal Prime Minister MacKenzie-King was asked how many he would accept and he said "one is too many!" and sent them back.   Jews in Canada in the 1930's were basically discriminated against like blacks.    National Socialism is an offshoot of fascism, and the Jewish-Bolshevik Conspiracy is more specific and the central tenet of the faith. 

The Treaty of Versailles is one component of Nazi grievances, but they did not and likely could not have come to power without the total economic collapse of the Wiemar Republic

You seem to be quite confused about so many things Dougie. Why would anybody want to debate your gobbledegoop imaginings. If you go to Wikipedia for talking points, stick with it and learn enough to make it appear that you have a basic knowledge of your subject. Choosing 'talking points' that please you isn't coming across very well.

[montgomery]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

There aren't any markets offering Canada a better deal,.....................

You do tend to go on and on, changing the subject in each of your sentences. But I stopped it there because that sort of whopper can't be ignored. Have you even the remotest idea of how all nations have expanded trade with China, Canada included? Why are you sitting in a chair, dabbling on a keyboard, looking at a monitor, drinking coffer out of a cup, and more, using articles that nearly all came from China? oh, and the pen you use too!

Jeeeeeez Dougie!

[Dougie93]

If Canada enters in to free trade with the Communists in Beijing, Canada is just going to get rolled, the Chinese don't play by any rules, they will just keep altering the deal like Darth Vader and Lando Calrissian Canada is just going to have to eat it,  the only thing keeping the Chinese from subjugating Canada under the boot heels, is the Americans.

[montgomery]

13 hours ago, turningrite said:

Let's hope Trudeau's Libs don't win in October. If they do, this country will continue its steep downward spiral. Investors are fleeing (see link 1 below) and Canadians are increasingly pessimistic about the future (see link 2 below). Given the Lib record, the prospect of a CPC government should be the least of a rational voter's worries.

https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/look-how-much-foreign-investment-has-fled-canada-since-the-liberals-took-over

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadians-appear-pessimistic-about-their-economic-futures-poll-suggests/article36526629/

 

Foreign investment, accepting or declining it, is always a balancing act between Canada profiting from it or Canada compromising our standards to accept it and allow it to happen. The Liberals are always fully conscienceous of that balancing and so find it necessary to restrict some trade from time to time.

The Conservatives on the other hand, are only concerned about profit and so the almight $$$$$$ rules their decisions.

And of course, the Liberals will pre-negotiate terms that are consistent with our Canadian standards, while the Cons have no interest in doing so.

p.s. Both parties allow too much hankypanky for my liking but obviously not enough for Consevative priorities. $$$$$$$

You can't brag day and night about your ideals and preferences without having people believe your schtick and catch on to your Conservative agenda. 

More on topic is the fact that the US has descended into being a fascist sideshow under Trump, and there is great danger in allowing two fascist extreme right countries at the same time on the N.A. continent. Canada must not help adding to the momentum. Scheer has already given strong indications that he will be a 'yes' man for Trump. It's a topic which needs to be fully explored. 

[Dougie93]

It's all to the good tho, because Quebec is an insular ethno-national state which is not conducive to opening up their borders to the world, so as the effects of increasing Canadian subjugation come to pass, that will bring my homey's the Pequistes back to power, vive le Quebec, vive le Quebec libre.

[montgomery]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

so as the effects of increasing Canadian subjugation come to pass, that will bring my homey's the Pequistes back to power,........

Whaattttt? 

Never mind.

Are you trying to get a message across that supports Quebec separation? 

[WestCanMan]

16 hours ago, montgomery said:

The US is now immersed in extreme right fascism with Trump and if Canada accepts the Conservative extreme right in Canada, it  would be a leg up for fascism in yhr US too..

Fascism? Plz explain.

Quote

Only socially responsible government as is being promoted by the Liberals can save everything that is good about Canada.

Destroying the economy and racking up debt eventually leads to reduced medicare and social spending.

Quote

No doubt the Conservatives want to destroy our universal heath care system and turn it into something resembling the US 'for-profit system.

That's just idiotic fear-mongering. The Conservatives have never argued against healthcare, put that in their platform, etc. Are you new to Canada?

Quote

No doubt the Conservatives hate to hear that Canada holds a place as one of the top ten happiest countries in the world,

Yes, for sure. They would prefer it if Canada was miserable. Another idiotic comment. 

Quote

while the US declines into greedy capitalism. 

Capitalism is responsible for the creation of more wealth among the "lower classes" than any other form of government, but surely you know that, right?

Quote

Now is the time for Canada to move away from the US and reject their racism, gun lust, greed, huge income inequality, and hate for refugees with brown skin. All issues the Conservative would have Canadians accept to become more like Americans.

This is probably your most idiotic comment aside from the one in the "Worst PM Ever" thread where you came out in support of terrorism. The US isn't "racist" at all. Border security is normal. Try to wander into Turkey and see what happens. Iran. Try to live in Mexico as an undocumented immigrant. Sneak into China or NoKo. Have fun Monty!!!!

[Dougie93]

I also think the American position on Quebec separation has evolved, obviously during the Cold War they wanted a single point of contact up here, they didn't want to be dealing with two jurisdictions, but this is a different age, so if Quebec wants to separate from the Chinese Hegenomy Anglo Canada is signing itself up for and cut a side deal with the Americans, I think Washington would be down for that now.

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, turningrite said:

You seem to have glossed over a lot of facts. Many economists aren't convinced that the official unemployment rate is very meaningful. The legitimacy of the official unemployment rate is undermined by the facts that real wages are stagnant and the labour market participation rate (the percentage of working age people participating in the labour force) remains below pre-2008/09 levels. These latter indicators suggest that the current economy doesn't feature actual full employment. I watched a panel analysis on CNN the other day about the official American unemployment rate, which is even lower than ours, where some participants noted that while more Americans are employed many have to hold two or three part-time jobs in order the survive, thus rendering as nonsense the notion that the current low unemployment rate is an actual indicator of general prosperity.

As for immigration, there are lots of problems. The federal government itself analyzed some of these problems, determining that Canada's ability to "absorb" immigrants is declining (see article in link below). The report, which was obtained via an access to information request and then released in the media, is a sobering read for those who believe our immigration program to be swimmingly successful. The Fraser Institute has done what the federal government has failed to do by calculating the net costs (program costs incurred less taxes paid by the most recent generation of immigrants) to taxpayers associated with the recent massive influx of immigrants, pegging it at tens of billions of dollars annually. These costs, unfortunately, are largely hidden as a result of Canada's jurisdictional structure, with much of the burden being borne by taxpayers in immigrant receiving provinces like Ontario, which alone receives about one-half of all immigrants. Is this situation economically or politically sustainable? The experiences in other countries suggest it likely isn't.

And then there's the general economy, which is struggling to attract investment, as I pointed out in a previous post. Foreign investment is plunging. Our closest trading partner is no longer reliable and the one that might provide us an opportunity for diversification may not be a palatable or practical choice.

https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-canada-struggling-to-absorb-immigrants-internal-report-says

The costs of immigration are hard to calculate because many new immigrants are adding to the tax base, essentially expanding the economy, growing the pie so to speak.  Yes city shelters are full and the refugee programs are costly in the first year.  We need to see data on where these refugees end up after one year, two years, and so forth.  I think it was noble to take in Syrian refugees, but we need to address challenges at home, like having a sustainable plan for remote indigenous communities where people are living in third world conditions in terms of housing, and where it’s not viable to build schools and hospitals because the communities are so small and there’s no real tax base.  Kids often have to leave there families to attend far away high schools. We’re seeing depression, suicides, substance related deaths, racism among the non indigenous community.  There needs to be hard conversations for a sustainable plan, because support is competing with the other interests of taxpayers.  Recent immigrants feel little responsibility towards these groups.  Those are real problems.  The larger economy is still booming, but the US is in an unprecedented situation of economic growth coupled with rising debt due to the massive public spending on tax cuts.  Rising debt and rising interest rates are a major concern. We also worry going forward about plant closures, labour strife, property values...But we always worry about such eventualities which aren’t easy to predict. 

[cannuck]

By George, I have to agree once more with Monty - it IS the worst time to accept the CPC.   The Liberals have screwed this place up so badly, the wimpy middle-of-the-road CPC won't repair a dent of the damage.  We need a genuine conservative party to straighten the mess out and a leader with some balls.

[Centerpiece]

16 hours ago, montgomery said:

The US is now immersed in extreme right fascism with Trump and if Canada accepts the Conservative extreme right in Canada, it  would be a leg up for fascism in yhr US too.. Only socially responsible government as is being promoted by the Liberals can save everything that is good about Canada. No doubt the Conservatives want to destroy our universal heath care system and turn it into something resembling the US 'for-profit system. No doubt the Conservatives hate to hear that Canada holds a place as one of the top ten happiest countries in the world, while the US declines into greedy capitalism. And no doubt the Cons' leader, Scheer, is totally aligned with the Trump regime.

Now is the time for Canada to move away from the US and reject their racism, gun lust, greed, huge income inequality, and hate for refugees with brown skin. All issues the Conservative would have Canadians accept to become more like Americans.

 

10 years of Stephen Harper helped to maintain our standing as one of the best countries in the world to live in. The CPC increased immigration to record levels and formulated a rational plan to take in 10,000 refugees in a responsible and sustainable fashion. Mr. Harper was also - and still is - one of the most respected world leaders (except for within the eco and UN elitist crowd). Trudeau on the other hand, has alienated just about every foreign relationship he has been given responsibility to nurture. He is virtually persona non-grata in India and disliked in Japan, Australia, Belgim, Viet Nam, China - and probably the US as well.,,,,much as a result of his silly virtue signalling. He has divided our provinces as never before - first by forcing the Harper healthcare formula on the provinces in a divide and conquer maneuver....a formula that he had described as "gutting" the healthcare system. His pipeline/Carbon policies have alienated the West and bubbling up separation talks in Alberta. He is a clear and present danger to the fabric of this country.

Your use of the term "facism" does a huge dis-service to those who have lived under the tyranny of such systems. It may surprise you that our Prime Minister has much more absolute power than any US President. With the backing of his party, our PM can do literally anything - make any law, repeal any law - by using the notwithstanding clause if required. The US President has no such powers.

Any use of the term Facism for rational arguments has no place in Canadian political discussion.

[Dougie93]

15 minutes ago, montgomery said:

Whaattttt? 

Never mind.

Are you trying to get a message across that supports Quebec separation? 

Quebec separation is inevitable, it's just a matter of time, as the Liberals allow the Chinese in, the Americans will start to freeze Canada out, but Quebec doesn't have any interest in trading with China, trade with China is all about  Ontario and the West, so as the freeze out progresses, the pressure in Quebec to ditch Chicom Canada and to defend themselves from the Liberals immigration policies,  and just go with the Americans,  will be the thing that puts the Pequites back in the drivers seat and over the top in the inevitable next referendum.

Used to be the Americans didn't want that, but now the Americans have realized that Canada is never going to put its big boy pants on to be any use to them, so Canadian Confederation has become as obsolete to the Americans as it is to Canadians, but neither Quebec nor the Americans are emotionally invested in Confederation, to wit, Republic of Quebec?  NBD.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Quebec separation is inevitable, it's just a matter of time, as the Liberals allow the Chinese in, the Americans will start to freeze Canada out, but Quebec doesn't have any interest in trading with China, trade with China is all about  Ontario and the West, so as the freeze out progresses, the pressure in Quebec to ditch Chicom Canada and to defend themselves from the Liberals immigration policies,  and just go with the Americans,  will be the thing that puts the Pequites back in the drivers seat and over the top in the inevitable next referendum.

Ha ha, you really don’t know how political events have unfolded in Quebec since the last referendum.  Quebec is a nation within Canada.  It has special privileges over other provinces that it would be a huge stretch for Americans to accept.  Quebec often receives transfer payments from other provinces yet is also the highest tax jurisdiction in North America and Quebec makes a lot of revenue from Hydro Quebec.  Quebec is left of any other province in Canada except perhaps BC.  Heard of 5 or 7 dollar a day subsidized daycare?  That’s s Quebec thing. Canada maintains fully bilingual government services.  Many provinces offer French immersion programs.  Smaller French communities outside Quebec are strengthened by the relationship with Quebec. Relationships between the provinces are strong. Quebecers are thriving, maintaining their identity. Separatism is way down and fading with the older generation.  There’s so much to say about how Canada supports Quebec and the French language, including Radio Canada. Do you think the US would provide half of that?  Dream on.  You don’t understand Quebec or Canada. 

[Dougie93]

Actually, you're the one who doesn't understand Quebec, outside of Montreal, there is no Canada in Quebec, they don't pay any attention to Canada whatsoever.  And as they are an ethno-nationalist state, that ethno-nationalism trumps economic concern, Anglo Canadians have nothing to bind them together except maybe Team Canada ice hockey, whereas Quebec is an actual nation.  And they've shown consistently that they are prepared to bear the economic brunt of their ethno-nationalism, I've lived in Quebec, culture is everything, economics is considerably further down on the list, they don't have the Protestant Worker Bee ethic of Ontario and the West, work, work, work, is not the centre of gravity in Quebec, so the assertion that Canada will be able to bribe Quebec into staying in Confederation is unfounded.

Equalization is actually broken and totally inefficient and the Canadian government wastes most of the money, so Quebec collecting their own taxes without Ottawa as the middle man will yield them more revenue not less.

When they separate, it's not going to be about logic at all, it's going to be all emotion, vive le Quebec, vive le Quebec libre

Edited January 8, 2019 by Dougie93

[turningrite]

43 minutes ago, montgomery said:

Foreign investment, accepting or declining it, is always a balancing act between Canada profiting from it or Canada compromising our standards to accept it and allow it to happen. The Liberals are always fully conscienceous of that balancing and so find it necessary to restrict some trade from time to time.

The Conservatives on the other hand, are only concerned about profit and so the almight $$$$$$ rules their decisions.

And of course, the Liberals will pre-negotiate terms that are consistent with our Canadian standards, while the Cons have no interest in doing so.

p.s. Both parties allow too much hankypanky for my liking but obviously not enough for Consevative priorities. $$$$$$$

You can't brag day and night about your ideals and preferences without having people believe your schtick and catch on to your Conservative agenda. 

More on topic is the fact that the US has descended into being a fascist sideshow under Trump, and there is great danger in allowing two fascist extreme right countries at the same time on the N.A. continent. Canada must not help adding to the momentum. Scheer has already given strong indications that he will be a 'yes' man for Trump. It's a topic which needs to be fully explored. 

I've been told to ignore your posts.

[montgomery]

11 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

10 years of Stephen Harper helped to maintain our standing as one of the best countries in the world to live in. The CPC increased immigration to record levels and formulated a rational plan to take in 10,000 refugees in a responsible and sustainable fashion. Mr. Harper was also - and still is - one of the most respected world leaders (except for within the eco and UN elitist crowd). Trudeau on the other hand, has alienated just about every foreign relationship he has been given responsibility to nurture. He is virtually persona non-grata in India and disliked in Japan, Australia, Belgim, Viet Nam, China - and probably the US as well.,,,,much as a result of his silly virtue signalling. He has divided our provinces as never before - first by forcing the Harper healthcare formula on the provinces in a divide and conquer maneuver....a formula that he had described as "gutting" the healthcare system. His pipeline/Carbon policies have alienated the West and bubbling up separation talks in Alberta. He is a clear and present danger to the fabric of this country.

Your use of the term "facism" does a huge dis-service to those who have lived under the tyranny of such systems. It may surprise you that our Prime Minister has much more absolute power than any US President. With the backing of his party, our PM can do literally anything - make any law, repeal any law - by using the notwithstanding clause if required. The US President has no such powers.

Any use of the term Facism for rational arguments has no place in Canadian political discussion.

You're asking me to ignore all the Trump support we're hearing spewed continuously by Conservative supporters on this board  So if you are prepared to go on record as a Conservative who is supportive of Trump, you'll be giving me something to work with. If you are trying to be the odd man out then we have something in common.

Mr. Harper was also - and still is - one of the most respected world leaders (except for within the eco and UN elitist crowd).

The Con supporters on this forum don't feel that way about Harper. In fact they're trying to distance the party from him! Where have you been? oh, you're suggesting they're eco and UN elitists?? What is that anyway? Your term, 'eco-elitist??

Fascism is being promoted in the US by Trump; the similarities are unmistakable. The racism and hate for minorities is escalating at a pace that at least equals the Nazi rise to power of the 30's. And the Conseravtives' support of that is alarming. My point with this thread is that we must not allow Canada to start following suit by accepting the same ideals as the Trump regime. I see that as Scheer's and his supporters' ambitions.

It's also worth mentioning that not only Trump's fascist achievements are in sync with the CPC's ambitions, but also the achievements Trump imagines and on which he has been held back by the few saner heads of that country. Listen to your fellow Conservatives, they're betraying your real Conservative agenda. I'll be treating you with much more to come on those issues! 

[montgomery]

6 minutes ago, turningrite said:

I've been told to ignore your posts.

I'm not surprised you don't make your own decisions on who and what to ignore.

But if you've made your own mind up on that, do you promise?