Zeitgeist Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 That was for me the problem with Trudeau. He wouldn't let Liberals vote with their conscience against policies with which they disagreed. It would be different if he was standing up for a human right protected by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That was not the case. Quote
Wilber Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 3 hours ago, betsy said: https://ipolitics.ca/2018/01/15/trudeau-fire-u-s-right-stance-abortion/ They should come and protest on Parliament Hill. Let's see how it feels to have Americans meddling in our internal affairs! We can put them in jail and flog them like the Saudis. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
left_alberta Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 On 8/10/2018 at 11:55 PM, turningrite said: It seems that both sides, the Trudeau government and the Saudi regime, are ramping up this squabble for domestic consumption. The Trudeau Libs, of course, get to preach about "our values" and the Saudis get to put dissidents in their place as well as assert that their regime must not be criticized by moralizing Westerners. Of course, neither side will take this too far. Trudeau will be content to drone on about "our values" (Wouldn't that be "dog whistle" speech coming from anybody else on the political spectrum?) without explicitly contrasting them with the fundamentalist (ahem, Islamic?) values espoused by the Saudi regime. And the Saudis will of course keep sending oil to parts of Canada where Western Canadian oil isn't permitted to reach. Neither side will openly address the ongoing slaughter in Yemen nor the massive Western arms sales that help to fuel the situation. As the economic relationship between the two countries is so marginal, this spat mainly amounts to a communications win-win for the posturing regimes. Nothing of importance will happen and both sides will claim a moral victory to their respective domestic audiences. Yes, we've already had the Saudis reassuring us that they won't cut off oil sales to Canada, and Morneau saying that there won't be any economic sanctions against the Saudis. And even Jagmeet Singh, who is calling for Canada to buy oil from other nations besides the KSA, hasn't actually suggested any possibilities. It's not so much that Canada is standing alone on this, but that Canada isn't really standing at all. 1 Quote
betsy Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, left_alberta said: Yes, we've already had the Saudis reassuring us that they won't cut off oil sales to Canada, and Morneau saying that there won't be any economic sanctions against the Saudis. And even Jagmeet Singh, who is calling for Canada to buy oil from other nations besides the KSA, hasn't actually suggested any possibilities. It's not so much that Canada is standing alone on this, but that Canada isn't really standing at all. By the looks of it, it'll be hard to stand, or for Trudeau to catch his breath. There's the tweet again friday evening...... auto tariff might be coming soon. Quote
GostHacked Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 On 8/10/2018 at 5:20 AM, betsy said: Canada is standing alone. I don't think there's any country that officially speaks in support of Canada over this. See what happens when you use tweeter as your "diplomacy" tool? Why would you have a problem with twitter diplomacy? It's Trump's go to app for just that! 1 Quote
GostHacked Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 19 hours ago, OftenWrong said: This can hurt in more ways than one. Saudi's pulling their students out of Canadian universities is forecast to cost upwards of $400M dollars.Link That does not consider the impact of the loss of medical students who are working as residents. This will affect some areas more acutely than others. 400 Mill? Hell the government has spend 2 BILLION on a failed pay system for public employees, 400 M is nothing. Now those who want to stay can apply for citizenship and renounce their Saudi 'citizenship' (hahah citizenship).... I am ok with that. And as for the oil, the stats say that cutting off oil deals with Saudi Arabia won't be to hard to shore up via other sources. It equates to less than 10% if imports. 1 Quote
Wilber Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, GostHacked said: Why would you have a problem with twitter diplomacy? It's Trump's go to app for just that! Good luck with that. 7 minutes ago, betsy said: By the looks of it, it'll be hard to stand, or for Trudeau to catch his breath. There's the tweet again friday evening...... auto tariff might be coming soon. And that would make your day. Why do you dislike Trudeau so much that you wish hardship on your country? Edited August 11, 2018 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
GostHacked Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 21 hours ago, betsy said: Yes, I do agree with her political opinion. What's there not to agree with? Canada is alone on this. https://globalnews.ca/news/4376037/canada-saudi-arabia-dispute-united-states-silent/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-us-sidesteps-getting-involved-in-escalating-saudi-canada-dispute/ It's because Saudi Arabia has a good amount of power control within the US government system. Essentially the US simply sucks up to Saudi Arabia any chance they get, even though most of the 9/11 hijackers were SAUDI nationals. Quote
GostHacked Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, betsy said: It's really about their hypocrisy. Trudeau talks about violations of human rights - and infringement on free speech - which, he's guilty of, himself! You are really going to compare Trudeau to a nation that cuts people's heads of in the middle of the street? But no worries, Saudi Arabia now let's women drive!! That's progress right? And the abortion thing you posted has nothing to do with the crap going on with Saudi Arabia. When you say Trudeau is worse than the Saudi's you have lost your point AND lost your mind. Edited August 11, 2018 by GostHacked 1 Quote
OftenWrong Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 57 minutes ago, GostHacked said: 400 Mill? Hell the government has spend 2 BILLION on a failed pay system for public employees, 400 M is nothing. Now those who want to stay can apply for citizenship and renounce their Saudi 'citizenship' (hahah citizenship).... I am ok with that. And as for the oil, the stats say that cutting off oil deals with Saudi Arabia won't be to hard to shore up via other sources. It equates to less than 10% if imports. Sure. Things are going to be even better now. And this is something you people (Liberals) planned all along, right? No? Quote
taxme Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 20 hours ago, Wilber said: Lots of people want to study here. Locals don't call UBC the University of a Billion Chinese for nothing. We don't need no stinkin' trade deals or to do any kind of business with the Saudis. I have no problem with emptying Canada of all these beheading warmongering archaic backwards religious freaks of nature. I am not for the liberals here either because I think that they are just as guilty and bad for Canada as the Saudis are sans beheading. Canada does not need their oil either. Canada has enough oil on land and out at sea to do quite well without Saudi oil. Canada can always buy oil from other countries if needed. All that is required is for Canada to do something about it instead of constantly listening too and allowing the environmentalists and the native Indians from always trying to stop the production of oil and pipelines too carry that oil. Those two entities alone have stopped plenty of new job creation projects and plenty of jobs for Canadians who want to work and make a good buck out of it. Canada needs more capitalists in government and not more liberal socialists running this country who have been allowed to run and ruin this once great nation. Too much government involvement in everything means too much unemployment or cheap paying jobs thanks to bringing in foreigners who will work for slave labor wages. Canada is not the country it once was 60 years ago when Canada was in great shape and Canadians were pretty much happy in those days. Now thanks to liberalism and socialism they both are now making us all poor and unhappy. Government "IS" always the problem and never the solution. I think that the Libertarian Party of Canada has the answer that could help make Canada great again. My opinion. Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, taxme said: I think that the Libertarian Party of Canada has the answer that could help make Canada great again. My opinion. Libertarian party is the only viable party that supports free trade. The parties in the house of commons support 300% tariffs and call it free trade. If Canada got rid of its awful supply management system and pursued free trade with the Americans, I doubt the Saudi's would feel so bold as to perform all these sanctions and threaten Canada with 911 terrorist attacks. Trump is taking a neutral stance because he is trying to use this as leverage in NAFTA negotiations. Doesn't reflect well on Trump, but it's the reality. Quote
Wilber Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said: If Canada got rid of its awful supply management system and pursued free trade with the Americans, I doubt the Saudi's would feel so bold as to perform all these sanctions and threaten Canada with 911 terrorist attacks. And replace it with what, direct subsidies to farmers or just become a dumping ground for subsidized US products? Supply management is user pay, subsidies are taxpayer pay. American farmers dump 50 million gallons of milk a year. Their problem is over production, not Canada. Edited August 11, 2018 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
taxme Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said: Libertarian party is the only viable party that supports free trade. The parties in the house of commons support 300% tariffs and call it free trade. If Canada got rid of its awful supply management system and pursued free trade with the Americans, I doubt the Saudi's would feel so bold as to perform all these sanctions and threaten Canada with 911 terrorist attacks. Trump is taking a neutral stance because he is trying to use this as leverage in NAFTA negotiations. Doesn't reflect well on Trump, but it's the reality. Our present day so called spend crazy politicians think more about moving the statue of our First Prime Minister of Canada from the front steps of city hall than appear to have any knowledge or know how free trade should really work. We have a parliament full of a useless bunch of politically correct puppet on a string liberals and socialists who thing that the only way for Canada to succeed in anything is to try and screw it all up. Hey you guys/gals in government it does not work that way. It's time to start thinking like a capitalist for a change and get Canada rolling again. Bringing in or allowing all this legal and illegal criminal activity going on is not going to work. All it will do is make Canada weak and poor. Trump is smart enough on tariffs and trade dealing and he knows as to what he is doing where Freeland has no clue. She is working with people who are just plain anti-American and who think that they are going to try and pull a fast one on Trump the fools. The days of dealing with fools in Washington are over. Trump is the new wheeler and dealer in Washington now and Canada needs to wake up to this fact. It may very well not reflect on Trump all that much but ask Trump if he really cares. Reality for Canada has finally kicked in. Quote
taxme Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, Wilber said: And replace it with what, direct subsidies to farmers or just become a dumping ground for subsidized US products? Supply management is user pay, subsidies are taxpayer pay. American farmers dump 50 million gallons of milk a year. Their problem is over production, not Canada. Well, maybe if Canada took that 50 million gallons of milk and allowed it to be sold here in Canada we could probably then be able to buy milk at a lot cheaper price than what they have to pay for Canadian milk. East Indians from Vancouver go to Washington state every day and buy hundreds of gallons of milk because it is cheaper to buy in Washington than it is in Canada. It would appear as though even East Indians are a lot smarter with their money and the buying milk than other Canadians are. Quotas do not work. Quota creates shortages which then help to keep the price up and is not the answer. If the Americans can produce so much milk that they have to dump most of it tells me that quotas in Canada are not working. Why isn't our farmers dumping milk? Quotas just make the consumer to have to pay more. This just shows that capitalism works and big government socialism does not. It is for dam sure that Canada never does over produce on anything because if they did East Indians would not be running to America to get their milk. Geez, and that could mean lower prices for Canadian consumers. Wow, such a deal. Quote
Wilber Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, taxme said: Well, maybe if Canada took that 50 million gallons of milk and allowed it to be sold here in Canada we could probably then be able to buy milk at a lot cheaper price than what they have to pay for Canadian milk. East Indians from Vancouver go to Washington state every day and buy hundreds of gallons of milk because it is cheaper to buy in Washington than it is in Canada. It would appear as though even East Indians are a lot smarter with their money and the buying milk than other Canadians are. Quotas do not work. Quota creates shortages which then help to keep the price up and is not the answer. If the Americans can produce so much milk that they have to dump most of it tells me that quotas in Canada are not working. Why isn't our farmers dumping milk? Quotas just make the consumer to have to pay more. This just shows that capitalism works and big government socialism does not. It is for dam sure that Canada never does over produce on anything because if they did East Indians would not be running to America to get their milk. Geez, and that could mean lower prices for Canadian consumers. Wow, such a deal. It tells you quotas are working because farmers can survive without subsidies. That's the whole idea behind supply management and why it was brought in to replace subsidies resulting from boom bust markets. A subsidized price is an artificial price. A lot of American farmers would like to see some sort of supply management. The American dairy farmer's greetest fear these days is having a dairy tell them they don't want their milk and that is what is happening to many of them. Why don't we just get rid or all our agriculture and just buy food subsidized by other countries? Hell, we don't need the contribution to our GDP that agriculture makes and we don't need to be able to feed ourselves. 1 Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
betsy Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 3 hours ago, GostHacked said: It's because Saudi Arabia has a good amount of power control within the US government system. Essentially the US simply sucks up to Saudi Arabia any chance they get, even though most of the 9/11 hijackers were SAUDI nationals. Quote Saudi Arabia eyeing $400bn US investments, says crown prince https://www.arabianbusiness.com/politics-economics/392375-saudi-arabia-eyeing-400bn-us-investments-says-crown-prince Lol. Why isn't Trudeau retaliating against Saudi??? Quote
-1=e^ipi Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Wilber said: And replace it with what, direct subsidies to farmers or just become a dumping ground for subsidized US products? Supply management is user pay, subsidies are taxpayer pay. American farmers dump 50 million gallons of milk a year. Their problem is over production, not Canada. Put it on the negotiating table, pursue free trade. Obviously US subsidies should be on the negotiating table as well. The US admin has indicated willingness to engage in the mutual reduction of trade barriers. Edited August 11, 2018 by -1=e^ipi Quote
betsy Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Wilber said: Good luck with that. And that would make your day. Why do you dislike Trudeau so much that you wish hardship on your country? Lol. get your perspective straight. Trudeau's the one who's been hammering his own head! He's hammering us all too, along with it. Meh, the sooner he gets booted out is the best thing we can hope for. Let that be a lesson for CROWNING someone with no experience! Did you vote for Trudeau? People who voted for Trudeau must've hated Harper so much that they'd rather want hardship for this country! Edited August 11, 2018 by betsy 1 Quote
betsy Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, GostHacked said: You are really going to compare Trudeau to a nation that cuts people's heads of in the middle of the street? He's violating human rights! That's what he claims to be fighting for - heck, so it's blatant hypocrisy. Their method may not be exactly the same......but still same violation of human rights. Edited August 11, 2018 by betsy Quote
Wilber Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, betsy said: Lol. get your perspective straight. Trudeau's the one who's been hammering his own head! He's hammering us all too, along with it. Meh, the sooner he gets booted out is the best thing we can hope for. Let that be a lesson for CROWNING someone with no experience! Did you vote for Trudeau? People who voted for Trudeau must've hated Harper so much that they'd rather want hardship for this country! Betsy, it's pretty obvious what you don't like but I have no clue what you do stand for. One minute you are criticizing Trudeau for not kissing Saudi ass and the next its for not retaliating. You berate him for the few tweets that come out of his government but drool over every tweet that comes out of Trump's can at 3 AM. You seem to have no point of view other than hatred of Trudeau and would see your own country screwed if only it had a negative impact on him. Frankly, you and BC2004 would make a great couple. I am not a liberal. I have never been a fan of JT and his preachiness as always grated on me. I also abhor Donald Trump. However, the law of probabilities tells me that neither of them are going to be wrong about everything, all of the time and both of them are going to be right about some things, even if it is only occasionally. I know that is heresy to the terminally partisan like you but it is reality. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Wilber said: Frankly, you and BC2004 would make a great couple. Sorry, but I am already married to a woman who thinks your prime minister is a mental midget, but he's your problem, not ours. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Wilber Posted August 11, 2018 Report Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, -1=e^ipi said: Put it on the negotiating table, pursue free trade. Obviously US subsidies should be on the negotiating table as well. The US admin has indicated willingness to engage in the mutual reduction of trade barriers. Who knows what is on the table but considering the size of the US agricultural lobby in Congress and the amount of money involved in subsidies, I seriously question whether Trump could deliver. It seems that when it comes to promoting the use of Canadian oil (largely controlled by foreign multinationals) and ridding ourselves of dependence on foreign oil there is a lot of support, but when it comes to an industry made up of mostly family business's who put their revenues right back into their communities, not so much. Edited August 11, 2018 by Wilber Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
cannuck Posted August 12, 2018 Report Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Wilber said: Who knows what is on the table but considering the size of the US agricultural lobby in Congress and the amount of money involved in subsidies, I seriously question whether Trump could deliver. It seems that when it comes to promoting the use of Canadian oil (largely controlled by foreign multinationals) and ridding ourselves of dependence on foreign oil there is a lot of support, but when it comes to an industry made up of mostly family business's who put their revenues right back into their communities, not so much. US direct cash farm subsidies are (or at least were, haven't done a recent comparo) something over 3/4 of the total Canadian ag GDP! At last count, there were over one thousand people inside of the beltway who received more than $1mm each annually in ag subsidies. Supply management doesn't exactly work, but neither do ag subsidies. Governments have no business picking winners and losers in ANY business - ag included. If we simply let genuine market forces alone, the right quantities at the right price of the right products will be produced. I am reminded of the total collapse of the New Zealand economy when they subsidized wool production heavily. When Douglas took over finance, he cut those subsidies immediately. Less than two years later, the ag business was back on its feet - and still raising lambs. The difference was that the wool subsidies were greater than the value of wool that nobody wanted. In a totally free market, the same farmers discovered that the real demand was for mutton, so that is what they produced and exported - profitably. Canada is famous for converting surplus milk into powder, and dumping that either by lowball sale, outright gift or simply throwing away powder, butter and eggs. It allows bureaucrats to play with and in the politics of food, but by a large, supply management does NOT work well at all. Edited August 12, 2018 by cannuck Quote
OftenWrong Posted August 12, 2018 Report Posted August 12, 2018 7 hours ago, Wilber said: It seems that when it comes to promoting the use of Canadian oil (largely controlled by foreign multinationals) and ridding ourselves of dependence on foreign oil there is a lot of support, but when it comes to an industry made up of mostly family business's who put their revenues right back into their communities, not so much. This is exactly the nonsense Liberals are talking about now, to somehow make this debacle appear to be fine. This incident is simply more Liberal bungling. Trudeau has made some enemies it seems, and no one in the West is coming to his assistance with Saudi Arabia now. It is possible that Mr. Trudeau is even less popular than Donald Trump. At least Trump has a few friends... Quote
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